Respond or let it go?

[OutOfEgypt]

So, for those of you who have to remain in contact with your BPD ex, I was wondering if you could give me your opinion on this.

Today we were talking about if she was going to see our children before she goes away.  We made small talk about being very busy, and I mentioned that the air-conditioner in my house broke today yesterday, so that has been on my mind because it has been extremely hot outside.  I mentioned that the money was on my mind, too -I'm hoping the repair wasn't going to be major.  Yes, I know... .why even make small-talk like that?  I guess I do that to keep things light and detached rather than intense and confrontational.

But she replied something like, "Aww.  It will be okay.  Keep your chin up, ok?"  Now, considering the fact that I am living pay-check to pay-check because of the amount of spousal and child support I have to pay her (which could be much worse, but seriously... .that's why I'm struggling), what I wanted to say was, "I really don't take your attempt to comfort me seriously."  I even wanted to say, "If I didn't have to pay you so much so that you could party and buy cigarettes and new toys all the time, I could actually get things like this taken care of without a worry."  

But I didn't.  I replied with an overall "Ok" to that and a bunch of other things she said, about having to get back to work.  In general, I ignore or respond non-emotionally to things she says like that -whether they are sincere or intended to be little digs.  I keep as non-emotional toward her as possible, and I don't really even bother confronting her on being a selfish jerk unless it is something she is directly doing to the kids.  In general, I feel that is best.  Keep her out.  :)on't get emotionally involved in anything with her.

But man... .I really want to tell her what's up.  Is it ever worth it?  I mean I know it would prompt her to retaliate and rant and rage, or to put me down and tell me I'm acting like a victim, but it's like... .so what?  Is it ever worth it, or is it just best to stick to my original plan to let it go and refuse to emotionally engage?

I mean... .her comfort means nothing.  It seems fake, or maybe like she enjoys being able to "comfort" me, knowing that she's the one holding the string to my freedom because of my financial obligations to her.  But telling her might just play into her hand... ."Oh, he still cares about if I care or not"

Hmm... maybe this belongs on another board

[Aussie JJ]

I don't know the answer I'm sorry.  Mine has painted me soo black that I cant get a view of her personal life.  I have NFI who she is seeing however all the behaviours tell me that their is someone else.  That in itself kills me but I want to know about my sons environment not hers specifically and this hurts the most. 

She cuts me out to cut me out of his life as this is what I want to be involved in. 

[OutOfEgypt]

I had to think about what NFI meant for a second... .now I get it

I'm going to use that.

Sadly, there is probably someone else.  That's how it was for me.  Sorry, man

[Mutt]

I filed for bankruptcy last week because of my ex's emotional immaturity and irresponsibility. If I mentioned and I have that I'm struggling with child support and her walking away from our financial responsibilities together, she says I'm not budgeting right. I already went through a fine tooth comb with a financial advisor and there are no abnormalities on my part.

Having said that, keep it to yourself or post here and don't respond back and engage to try to get an answer or acknowledgement.  It's not worth the grief. You will be countered with their shame and guilt or blame. I focus on recovering and rebuilding and let go that she's really partly at fault for this. It is what is, don't add emotional suffering to the pile. I keep it low contact and talk about kids only and ignore the rest. I suggest doing the same, you'll feel better.

[OutOfEgypt]

Yeah, you are right.  Not worth it.  It might "feel good" for about 30 seconds (or less) to tell her that her comfort is crap, but she already knows it is.  And my goal is complete emotional detachment and rebuilding.

[Mutt]

Yeah, you are right.  Not worth it.  It might "feel good" for about 30 seconds (or less) to tell her that her comfort is crap, but she already knows it is.  And my goal is complete emotional detachment and rebuilding.

It's tough, I felt resentment with the lack of her acknowledgement that I struggle and she invalidates that. Your ex invalidated you with her response. I'm in the same boat and it's hard taking care of the kids with a stretched budget. I focus on them and let go of the rest of her malarkey, because we're getting the emotional response at the level of a small child here really. I'll recover. It will take time, but I 'm not going to add her grief to it from now until then. I'm sorry she invalidated you. Rise above OutOfEgypt, you're a good man.

[mywifecrazy]

What's up my Brother... .

IMHO I would not engage her at all... .Only communicate about children and even then only what is necessary. I would keep all communication to e-mail only. I wouldn't talk to her in person, on the phone or even texts. This is just my opinion and it's based on my situation with my uBPDxw.

I tried being friendly and wanted to co-parent with her but I was going CRAZY because of the lying and manipulation of me and my children. Through encouragement from these boards I decided to go NC with my X and this is what started my recovery and got me out of the a FOG. Once in a while when there is a situation where I take the NC WALL down and talk to her for whatever reason I get the tears, the woe is me, the lies, the re-writing history, etc, etc.  I just can't do that anymore! Whenever I let that wall down and take a PEAK into her world I realize that I don't want to go there! Even when she is ACTING nice towards me I know the TRUTH lies somewhere else.

Yes my X seemed happy when I was hurting and she was in a position of consoling me. I think she GOT OFF on having that power over me. But once I saw the LIGHT OF TRUTH and went NC she realized that her BPD Bull$hit didn't work on me anymore. Even though we have kids together going NC, actually very LC has helped me detach and has helped me be a better parent for my sons. BUT I'm lucky as I have primary custody and don't really need to communicate with her concerning our kids. It's up to her to reach out to me if she wants to be interested in their lives, she chooses not to!

OOE, I know how you feel about wanting to LET HER HAVE IT! I don't think that would be good for you. Just get her out of your life, as much as possible being that you have kids. You should find a safe place to let your anger out. A trusted friend, a good T, a support group, etc. You have all these feelings that are justifiable but that you need to process so they don't eat away at you. As a believer you may look into a local celebrate recovery group as they have support for people dealing with anger.

Hang in there. Remember Romans 8:28!

Sincerely... .MWC when are we having that beer?

[Elpis]

OutOfEgypt,

... .and I love the name, by the way, when I see it I think of a list of things I would be going back to... .

What I've done with various people in my life who I would reeeaally like to vent at but it wouldn't actually be helpful for them to know how I feel is to write them a nice long letter and spell out everything I would love to say to them. And I either keep it, or you could even do something of significance like tear it into little pieces and burn them one by one as you say good bye to those feelings so they don't weigh you down.

It's for ourselves we want to say the stuff, it's better if our SO doesn't get to see we are rattled or bothered, if we can be more non-emotional like the other guys said it's better.

By all means get all those feelings down on paper, every last angry one of the words you'd love to say--that's therapeutic! But remember it's for you--to remember why you're not going back to Egypt.

It's really lovely though, I have to say, to see men being so responsible and caring so much about your kids etc. Here I am, 60 and out of my Egypt of 37 years, and I've only been wandering in the desert for 5 months, but i'm so well trained to not be a bother that I find myself thinking "oh dear, will I be making it hard on him if I decide to stay separated"... .GAH.

Elpis

[DreamGirl]

I also think letting it go is really good advice.  

Yes, I know... .why even make small-talk like that?  I guess I do that to keep things light and detached rather than intense and confrontational.

Small talk is really hard when you're still emotionally invested.

I remember when I first started dating the hubs and he was barely scraping by - living paycheck to paycheck - while she was busy not working with his spousal support. I don't know that a "hang in there" wouldn't have sent me into a silent rage.

I think time helps in this.

Spousal support stopped, daycare went away, child support became reasonable and I don't really mind what she does anymore.  It does take practice and patience though.

Hang in there. It gets better.

[OutOfEgypt]

**Mutt:

Thank you.  I'm getting over it.  It's not worth it.  And I have things she will never take away... .like the truth, character, hope, and potential for a great life without her .

**MWC:

IPA or porter or stout?

Yes, Romans 8:28.  My T likens this to leaving Sodom.  My ex's game-plan is to do anything to get me to look back, even for an instant, even to just swing my arms at the air in frustration.  And sometimes she succeeds.  But I'm learning to let it go and realize there is nothing to look back to.  Unfortunately, I can't eradicate having to deal with her completely, but I can keep it LC as much as possible.  We get along, generally, but I'm always reminded by little things like this that her "I'm happy... .we can be friends" attitude is not going to cut it.  Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer it to raging and destroying me.  But she laces things with lies and manipulation, so its just a reminder that even at her nicest she's not a person to even casually allow close.


**Elpis:

Thank you.  It seems fitting to see this like the Exodus.   You are freed from slavery, but you still wander in the desert and it is very hard.  You are right... .it would be for myself to be able to give her a jab to know what kind of person she is and know that I'm not stupid.  But it is pointless.  A reaction would fuel her little game.  Besides, behind her desire to be all friendly and supportive, I know she thinks I'm stupid.  And in her world, I am stupid... .but I'm proud of it.  I would never want to be "smart" if smart means being able to manipulate and hurt people with ease and little care about it.  I'd rather be "dumb" than a monster.  But in real life, I'm not dumb at all.  I know you get what I mean.  And really, she is just one of countless people who are invalidators.  I paid the price for my freedom, and that price consists of certain situations (financial and otherwise) that are difficult, but I'm still free.  And it's great.  Thank you, also, for your encouragement about my kids.  They are the best.  I'm glad to be their daddy.

**DreamGirl:

"It gets better"... .yes, that means something.  My ex tells me, "You'll be fine.  Things will get better." but it makes me want to puke in her hat.  But when you say it, it means something.  Eventually, I'll pay off these debts, spousal support will stop, child support will lessen and then stop, and by then I will be in a much different place.

And yes, I agree about the small talk.  Maybe I kid myself by thinking I'm not as easily tempted to look back and hate her, but obviously I can be.  And I realize the same thing I've known for a long time: every time I let her close, even a little bit, even just casually or in a moderately friendly way, I regret it.  Time to worry less about it being "lighthearted" and keep it robotic if I have to .

[Mutt]

**Mutt:

Thank you.  I'm getting over it.  It's not worth it.  And I have things she will never take away... .like the truth, character, hope, and potential for a great life without her .

You're welcome OutOfEgypt. You're truth, character, hope and potential, you own that. No one can take it from you. There's ALOT of good advice in this thread and I learned things as well and I'm grateful.

I will leave you with one last piece of advice and it was my catalyst.

Change has to come from you. You cannot change someone else. I live by that credo. You will be surprised at how real change happens.

[OutOfEgypt]

Mutt, that is a great reminder.  And I definitely do not want to play into her hand.  Ultimately, I'm the only one who can get up, stride ahead, know what I'm worth and what I've got, and love my new life.

[OutOfEgypt]

There's a definitely a cycle to it.  There's silence for a while, then things start getting moderately friendly.  Some small talk.  A joke here or there.  She tells me a funny story, I tell her one.  Without realizing it, my guard drops slightly.  And then suddenly a little bomb gets dropped.  Something to "innocently" make me feel badly, rub it in, or invalidate me.  A little jab.  And I'm thrown off.  Then it goes back to silence for a while... .and so on.  Of course, I cannot stop things from provoking emotion such as pain and anger (having emotion is not the problem), but I can keep my resolve to keep her out and stop looking back to Sodom.  No pillars of salt, here. 

[Mutt]

Mutt, that is a great reminder.  And I definitely do not want to play into her hand.  Ultimately, I'm the only one who can get up, stride ahead, know what I'm worth and what I've got, and love my new life.

I'm broke but I've never been happier. I had the best vacation week this last week with my kids, than any I had with my ex. Mindfulness. I appreciate the little things and being in the moment with my kids and out of the FOG. There's a lot there in front of us, in the small moments, appreciate them.

[mywifecrazy]

**Mutt:

Thank you.  I'm getting over it.  It's not worth it.  And I have things she will never take away... .like the truth, character, hope, and potential for a great life without her .

You're welcome OutOfEgypt. You're truth, character, hope and potential, you own that. No one can take it from you. There's ALOT of good advice in this thread and I learned things as well and I'm grateful.

I will leave you with one last piece of advice and it was my catalyst.

Change has to come from you. You cannot change someone else. I live by that credo. You will be surprised at how real change happens.

God grant me the serenity to let go of the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time; accepting hardship as a pathway to peace;

Hang in there OOE

SINCERELY... .MWC

[OutOfEgypt]

Hang in there OOE

Like a bat on the underside of a 747 :P

Haha

[Elpis]

You peeps are makin' me laugh!

OutOfEgypt, I like what you said about the meaning of the word "stupid" as defined by your ex as opposed to defined by you. That's a really important lesson to remember, that a word can be different things to different people. What my uBPDh sees as my "weakness" (my traumatic childhood) and used as something he could poke at to keep me in a position of weakness, is actually becoming my strength. As I've been learning about complex PTSD (which I have) i'm being able to slowly become free from the hold of that place of terror his prodding and yelling and belittling would return me to. It's no cake walk, but I know it will be worth it in the end.

And it was a brilliant thing to be reminded of today! I've been feeling pretty down.

Mutt, your catalyst was also the incredible piece of knowledge my T gave me that started me on a path to improving my situation. I am the dreamer type, ever the romantic, the "love will win in the end!" type. At frickin' 60. *sigh* Well, she told me something along the lines of "the only 'hope' you can have is in what you can control, your actions. Anything else is 'wishful thinking.'" Wow.

[Hopeless777]

Elpis: Actually my therapist said the "only thing you can control is your attitude." Since your attitude directs your actions, I think this statement is more fundamental and foundational. But what do I know. I'm 57 and been married to my uBPDw for 27+ years and we're now separated, my thoughts are quite suspect.

[OutOfEgypt]

This reminds me of some of the things I think about and talk about with my T.  For those of you reading this who are not Christians, thank you for bearing with me.

First, it is like the BPD people operate to an extreme on the "world's" wavelength.  Power, control, lusts of the eyes, etc.  But God shames the power and strength of the world by coming (and establishing what will ultimately redeem this world) in weakness:  the cross.  The world sees suffering as weak.  But we here in this group, especially, know that our suffering (though we would rather have never gone through it) is the primary thing that has changed our lives and made us more into the people that God created us to be.  God works through suffering.  God redeems through "death".  On the other side of death is resurrection.  But to a person with BPD, *that* is death.  Coming to the end of yourself, fallling into the abyss of all that pain and shame, is death to them.  I reflect (not always!) and see all of this as a gift to me, as a part of my story through which I can understand God and what he feels on a daily basis.  It has made me who I am, and it has made me all the more hungry for the day when He will set everything right.  The world says suffering and powerlessness is weakness.  The cross says that the world's idea of strength is pathetic and delusional and that God is found most brightly in the dark.  God stands outside that crap system, judges it, and opens a door through the darkness for us.

And that brings me to the idea of "hope."  All of this has not just prepared me for hope of a better life now, which I already have and which will only continue to grow as I reach all the potential that God has for me, but it has put me in the very painful and difficult yet good place of not placing all my hopes in this world.  The brokenness of this world, I believe, is to serve as a reminder of the fact that this isn't Eden.  It's Egypt, on a broader scale.  So, of course it hurts to live in Egypt.  But that pain deepens my longing for when I'm no longer in Egypt.

[Elpis]

Hopeless,

I think mine was kindly referring to me getting off my bootay and quit with the wishful thinking that somehow my uBPDh of 30odd years would suddenly become loving and kind, and do something to improve my own life! The two thoughts are very connected, and i'm sure i'm misquoting the heck out of my therapist anyway... .And i'm 60 and separated from my nearly 38 year marriage, so virtual high 5? (yes I am a slow learner, thank you very much.)

[Elpis]

The brokenness we all share as humans comes in so many forms--just in my case, my childhood trauma, my dealings with trauma as an adult, my fibromyalgia, even my allergies! And my husband, though fitting the BPD traits pretty well as exhibited in our home anyway, is a believer and has had a very positive impact on the lives of many. It's just another form of our broken humanity, but his shows in his own lack of being able to see how he's being hurtful to those he loves. We are definitely imperfect people.

[Mutt]

But we here in this group, especially, know that our suffering (though we would rather have never gone through it) is the primary thing that has changed our lives and made us more into the people that God created us to be.  God works through suffering.

Thank you for sharing that OutOfEgypt. I'm non-practicing and I do believe. I'm going to need to take a look at my faith again and make decisions.

Take your suffering and embrace it. Change it into something positive.

"We must embrace pain and burn it as fuel for our journey." —Kenji Miyazawa

[OutOfEgypt]

Elpis:  Yes, humbling to realize that!  Very.  Thank you for reminding me that this includes my ex

Mutt:  It's been a struggle of faith, for sure.  Martin Luther and Deitrich Bonhoeffer are two of the guys I've looked to in connecting faith and suffering -because our inclination (or at least mine) is to see them as at odds.

[mywifecrazy]

This reminds me of some of the things I think about and talk about with my T.  For those of you reading this who are not Christians, thank you for bearing with me.

First, it is like the BPD people operate to an extreme on the "world's" wavelength.  Power, control, lusts of the eyes, etc.  But God shames the power and strength of the world by coming (and establishing what will ultimately redeem this world) in weakness:  the cross.

Beautifully put OOE!

I was caught completely off guard when I found my uBPDxw in bed with another man. My whole world and everything I knew was turned to ashes on Fathers Day 2013.  I was in so much pain I felt like ending my life as I didn't want to go on. I went into a clinical depression for months. I cried so hard that my whole body ached. I was in the pits of darkness and despair and didn't see anyway out. In my weakness I had nowhere to turn to and I just cried out to God. I cried out (literally) not my will father out yours be done. In my BROKENHEARTED condition I started to feel a sense of peace and calmness come over me. It was like God was telling me that everything was going to be OK just to keep my focus on him and to trust that he will see me through and that me and my sons would be OK.

Sometimes when we are so broken open we are more open to let God minister to us. I know that I have been blessed more in this past year than in my entire life and it has been the worst time in my life... .Go figure?

OOE, These two songs capture the feeling of being broken and crying out to God

Praise You in this storm-Casting Crowns.   Flood-Jars of Clay

Sincerely... .MWC

[Elpis]

Awww MWC, on Father's Day for cryin' out loud? i'm so sorry to hear of your pain... .

I love that song by Casting Crowns too!

Someone who points me toward growth in suffering is C.S. Lewis. I love this quote of his:

“The great thing, if one can, is to stop regarding all the unpleasant things as interruptions of one's 'own,' or 'real' life. The truth is of course that what one calls the interruptions are precisely one's real life -- the life God is sending one day by day.”

― C.S. Lewis, The Collected Works of C.S. Lewis

It's all a part of our time-line... .