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Author Topic: Need input: Going for it all, but not sure if now or later?  (Read 916 times)
Waddams
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« on: July 14, 2014, 02:48:16 PM »

First a few updates.  uPDxw's motion for attorney's fees was heard.  Judge issued an order for me to pay $2500 into the court registry.  uPDxw's L claimed $17,000 was needed.  I'm not real happy about it, but already paid it.  It's my understanding having it paid into the court registry is so the judge can order it released as he sees fit later.  So uPDxw might not get it all. 

Paying that has left me in a real lurch for the moment.  Projecting forward, I should be okay, though.

Next, had a phone conference with L.  L is a she, btw.  She thinks I've got getting awarded school decision making authority in the bag.  She also has the following plan for pursuing eventual full custody in the case:

-Get school decision making - put S10 (as of July 11 he's 10, happy birthday to my squirt!) in school.

-Have him do well, make sure of it.  Kill myself to make sure he does well.

-Document every failing of uPDxw's.

-uPDxw will have her own classes again, and I'll likely have a lot of extra time on her weeks anyway.

-L expects uPDxw will be so pissed about it all that she won't perform well for school on her time.  Document, document, document.

-Go back in 3, 4, 6 months, etc. for custody.  Show uPDxw isn't about to cut it, I can, and at that point, with every issue current, THEN go for custody.

L acknowledges that I've got a whole bunch of create evidence for custody now as well, but thinks I can go for custody, but it's tough because if I say I want custody, but still propose a lot of visitation during school, then I'm saying I think uPDxw can handle doing good with S10's school on her time.  I'm also trying to make the claim S10 needs more stablity, that his mom can't provide, as an argument for a custody change.  So L's question is this:  How can I propose a lot of visitation and still say uPDxw is too unstable for school?  L is telling that she thinks I need to either for it all, not propose a lot of visitation, just EOW, during school, or ask for the only change right now to be about school.

Then show uPDxw not able to perform for S10's best interest.  THEN go for custody due to uPDxw's failure to perform.  And me having S10 for more of uPDxw's nights because she's got classes/tree jobs/etc., with me specifically taking the reins practically majority time anyway, AND parenting S10 to acceptable school performance on my own will make a very convincing case for custody in a few months time.

Basically, to sum it up, she's saying have me take over school, show I can make it work better in public school than uPDxw can and solve issues, uPDxw couldn't, therefore a permanent custody change is appropriate. 

I'm struggling with this though:  Honestly, maybe I'm just impatient, but I also think I've got a good case for custody now.  I want to win now.  Which means there's a part of me that wants to go for it all now.

L acknowledges that I've got all kinds of great evidence for custody now, between uPDxw's prior schedule chaos, and lots of things I've post about before so won't rehash on this thread.  But basically L is trying to set up a really big kill shot as follows:

-uPDxw, as school decision making holder, couldn't hack it.

-Waddams, when given his chance to be in charge, could and was demonstrably better than uPDxw at being in charge.

-Therefore, after setting that up, THEN file for another hearing and get full custody granted with the final piece of the puzzle being that uPDxw can't do the job, and I will have demonstrated that I can.

So... .question for the peanut gallery:  Would you go for it all now?  If I go for it now, I might get 60/40, or no change at all.  Or I might get it all now.  What's most likely is minimal change with S10 going back to school.

If I show more patience/restraint, then the way L is recommending to set this up, then it sounds like there's a much better chance of me getting full custody later down the road.

What would you do?

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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 03:09:01 PM »

When you have to pay something to the court, you probably don't have to pay it all right away.  It may be good to emphasize to the court that you're not made of money by saying, "I understand I need to pay $2,500.  I can't afford to pay it all right now.  Can I pay $500 now and $500 a month for the next four months?"  The court will probably agree to some reasonable schedule.

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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 03:18:44 PM »

Your lawyer's step-by-step approach to custody seems sensible to me.  In fact, it might be worth considering - assuming you get school-decision-making now, and S10 goes to school next month - it might be worth considering to let it be through this coming school year, and at the end of the school year go back for custody - call it 10 months from now.  You'll have lots of information by then - S10 will be doing fine in school, you'll have shown you can handle decision-making sensibly, and your ex will probably have shown her colors in some way.

"How can I propose a lot of visitation and still say uPDxw is too unstable for school?" - propose a sensible schedule, like EOW plus 1 dinner each week, but also say, "If Ms. Ex would like to see S10 other times she can ask and we'll work it out."  Open the door and see if she walks through it.

Worst case, she will ask for additional time, like maybe spending time with him on "your" weekends, and you'll have to say OK some of the time, and she'll handle that well.  That's fine - you will look moderate because you invited her to do that and cooperated when she wanted to see S10 more.  She'll look OK too - that's fine.

More likely, she'll fight to get more "official" time, but she won't actually take you up on your offer for more time to be worked out informally.  And you'll be able to show that you offered, and she didn't accept - pretty solid proof she either doesn't want more time with him or she can't handle it (or both).

What would I do?  I think I would talk more with your attorney - who seems to have some good ideas and to be thinking creatively on your behalf - and see if she can back up her proposal based on experience.  Has she been through some similar cases, and did she use her proposed approach, and how did that work out?  Has she been through cases with this same judge, and what is the judge's pattern of decisions?  Why does she think hers is the right strategy, and why does she think a less-patient approach wouldn't work?

I think you're at the point where you need to make a difficult judgement, but you don't have the information you need to make it.  Talking with your lawyer should help with that, one way or another.
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 03:33:04 PM »

Excerpt
L's question is this:  How can I propose a lot of visitation and still say uPDxw is too unstable for school?  L is telling that she thinks I need to either for it all, not propose a lot of visitation, just EOW, during school, or ask for the only change right now to be about school.

I would ask for twice what you feel comfortable with. Suggest EOW from Friday at 6pm until Sunday at 6pm. That means you have school completely locked down on your terms. Ask if Fridays can start at 6pm, which gives you a chance to go over any possible weekend assignments just in case. Maybe you consider a Wednesday dinner, but no overnight.

That gives the judge some room to compromise. Maybe he eventually decides to give your ex EOW from Friday after school to Sunday morning, and no Wednesday overnight. Or Friday after school until Sunday 6pm plus a Wed overnight starting at 6pm.

Honestly, I don't think the judge cares if you have a lot of evidence right now. He's still going to give your ex a chance. Your job is to ask for the moon, provide a medium amount of rationale for why, and then let the judge settle somewhere in the middle, so he can feel like he's being fair by giving your ex a chance to prove herself.

Judge will probably think that you "won" the school thing, and now it's mom's chance to rise to the occasion.

That's how it would work with my judge, if past experience is any indication.

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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 03:50:34 PM »

Excerpt
When you have to pay something to the court, you probably don't have to pay it all right away.  It may be good to emphasize to the court that you're not made of money by saying, "I understand I need to pay $2,500.  I can't afford to pay it all right now.  Can I pay $500 now and $500 a month for the next four months?"  The court will probably agree to some reasonable schedule.

This ship already sailed.  Judge issued the order on July 8th and I had until July 11th to comply.  3 freaking days.  Not enough time for the mail to be sent out and delivered.  I found out because I bird dog the court's website and saw the order posted on there.  It showed the order to pay, the due date, but not the amount.  My L tracked down the actual order, which the judge's clerk said had not, and would not be mailed.  

So I wonder how the f*** was I supposed to comply with that order unless I was compulsively checking the court website?   It was actually pretty ___ty.

My L said they asked for $17k.  They got $2.5k.  Judge is basically telling uPDxw he has sympathy for her but she needs to come up with $15k on her own.

Excerpt
I think you're at the point where you need to make a difficult judgement, but you don't have the information you need to make it.  Talking with your lawyer should help with that, one way or another.

I understand L's point that given S10's dx with Asbergers/ADHD and prior issues, I probably do need to go for full custody.  Split isn't going to work well for him with his dx's, and that's played out so far.  

So for one thing, I need to let go of the wanting custody, but not wanting to take him away from his mom thinking.  I'm trying to have it both ways and in the end that probably won't work out well.  L pointed out uPDxw is an idiot and I'm better suited to parent S10.  Therefore L is trying to set me up to win all the marbles.

Excerpt
"How can I propose a lot of visitation and still say uPDxw is too unstable for school?" - propose a sensible schedule, like EOW plus 1 dinner each week, but also say, "If Ms. Ex would like to see S10 other times she can ask and we'll work it out."  Open the door and see if she walks through it.

That would basically be me having majority time/full custody.  It's what L says the judge won't want to order right now.  And I was also thinking more along the lines of EOW + 2 nights per week, or 3 nights one week, 1 night the next, etc.  Basically a lot more.  

Excerpt
What would I do?  I think I would talk more with your attorney - who seems to have some good ideas and to be thinking creatively on your behalf - and see if she can back up her proposal based on experience.  Has she been through some similar cases, and did she use her proposed approach, and how did that work out?  Has she been through cases with this same judge, and what is the judge's pattern of decisions?  Why does she think hers is the right strategy, and why does she think a less-patient approach wouldn't work?

My L is recognized state wide as one of the top family law attorney's in the state.  She came within a hair of being elected a state supreme court judge at one point as well.  And particularly in my county, she's pretty much loved by all the judges.  She has used this strategy before.  She's also used similar strategies for other clients successfully, particularly with disordered opposing parties (which she also has decent experience with).  L told me if the other party is disordered, if you give them a chance to hang themselves, they will.  So she's trying to do just that in a way that maximizes my chances/gains out of all this.

Our judge is a new judge.  He was appointed to replace an older judge that recently retired.  He's new to family law.  He was a judge in a prior court prior to now, but didn't deal with family law.  I think I might his first real family law fight.  My L helped him get elected to his prior spot 15 years ago, though, and knows him personally very well.

Excerpt
Honestly, I don't think the judge cares if you have a lot of evidence right now. He's still going to give your ex a chance. Your job is to ask for the moon, provide a medium amount of rationale for why, and then let the judge settle somewhere in the middle, so he can feel like he's being fair by giving your ex a chance to prove herself.

Yeah and I think this is why L is recommending what she is, actually.  Why fight a lot when the judge won't do it anyway?  Get the chance to prove I'm a better parent, prove it, show uPDxw's continued failings, and then make the claim for custody because uPDxw can't hack it and meet S10's needs, but I have already proven I can.
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 04:30:35 PM »

I can't get my head around how hard it is for the courts to do what's best for the kids. The entire system is supposedly set up to do that, but the judges, even the good ones, it seems like they rule on what's fair to the parents more than what's best for the kids.
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2014, 04:53:57 PM »

I can't get my head around how hard it is for the courts to do what's best for the kids. The entire system is supposedly set up to do that, but the judges, even the good ones, it seems like they rule on what's fair to the parents more than what's best for the kids.

Yes, and it seems to me - based on my own case, and many here - that when it's the father who is well able to care for the kids, and the mother who isn't, that idea has to be introduced very carefully - walking on eggshells - like you're challenging some fundamental law of physics, when all you're really saying is, "In this particular case... .".

It sounds like you are in good hands with this attorney.  I'm usually very skeptical about attorneys, because so many of them pretend to know what they're doing, but actually probably don't, when it comes to an opposing party who is BPDish;  and they often seem to spend more time trying to get their clients - especially fathers - to lower their expectations, than they do figuring out ways to accomplished what will be best for the kids.

But in this case it sounds like you have a very experiened attorney who is setting her sights high, and giving you a clear and sensible strategy to achieve what you think will be best - an ambitious goal - and the only real concern is that it won't happen as fast as you wish.  I don't mean to minimize that, concern, but in the long run you'll probably look back and see that delay of a few months, or even a year, as a reasonable price to pay, for a good, solid outcome that will work out well for S10 and you.
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2014, 05:09:34 PM »

Excerpt
Yes, and it seems to me - based on my own case, and many here - that when it's the father who is well able to care for the kids, and the mother who isn't, that idea has to be introduced very carefully - walking on eggshells - like you're challenging some fundamental law of physics, when all you're really saying is, "In this particular case... .".

Mothers are presumed to be good parents.  Fathers have to prove it before a judge will believe it.
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2014, 05:16:46 PM »

Excerpt
Yes, and it seems to me - based on my own case, and many here - that when it's the father who is well able to care for the kids, and the mother who isn't, that idea has to be introduced very carefully - walking on eggshells - like you're challenging some fundamental law of physics, when all you're really saying is, "In this particular case... .".

Mothers are presumed to be good parents.  Fathers have to prove it before a judge will believe it.

... .which requires us to be even more patient with the process.

If your attorney believes that can be done, and done well - so it won't be an ongoing battle - in less than a year, then her plan sounds like a pretty good one.
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2014, 06:17:52 PM »

Excerpt
... .which requires us to be even more patient with the process.

If your attorney believes that can be done, and done well - so it won't be an ongoing battle - in less than a year, then her plan sounds like a pretty good one.

Yeah.  

I still want to have my documents and notes ready to talk about custody in case the hearing goes there.  I could see the judge saying "wait... .S10 has been with dad 1/2 mom's time for 2 years?  and it's going to continue?  how's mom going to see to S10's school needs if she's too busy with her own classes and her business?"  :)on't want to be caught unprepared.

And I did ask my L if bringing everything we have up now would strengthen the case for custody later.  Basically a "see... .we told you about all this drama last time too".  She said she'd have to think on it, but did acknowledge that there might be value in doing it.

And oh yeah - all this also means I when I get the chance to have the reins, I have to perform.  I'll have to be superdad and not let a single ball drop.
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 07:50:18 PM »

And oh yeah - all this also means I when I get the chance to have the reins, I have to perform.  I'll have to be superdad and not let a single ball drop.

Well... .yeah... .kinda... .

I would certainly recommend that you make sure you have your son's doctor's phone number in your cell phone, and dentist, etc.  And that you get to know all his teachers very well, and meet the school principle and the school counselor, etc.

If you enjoy drinking or whatever, do that on the evenings he's not with you, and do your best to schedule time so you can be available for him while he's in your care - you aren't hanging out with friends or partying at Planet Hollywood.

But you don't need to hold yourself up to unreasonable standards or re-make your whole life around your son.  He's old enough to fit into your life somewhat - you can take into account what he likes to eat, but you don't have to have pizza every night - he can learn to eat what you enjoy too.  You can find the movies you both like, and take turns picking what to watch on TV, within reason - he doesn't have to have everything his way.

This has been an ongoing issue with my kids,  now S16 and D17.  They learned from their BPD mom that if everything isn't what they want, the thing to do is throw a fit.  It's my job to make sure that isn't effective, and that sometimes means they aren't happy because they don't get what they want.  You'll have to be a good dad, and strong and wise, which doesn't mean that everything will be your son's way, or that you give up everything important to you when he's around.
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 08:00:31 PM »

 
And I did ask my L if bringing everything we have up now would strengthen the case for custody later.  Basically a "see... .we told you about all this drama last time too".  She said she'd have to think on it, but did acknowledge that there might be value in doing it.

Ask you L what she thinks about asking your ex to do something as a condition of showing she can stick to a schedule for S10, sort of like putting her on probation as a tactical move. Not phrased like that in court, just the idea. That strengthens your hand the next time you go to court because it's something your ex will have agreed to in front of the judge, so it carries more weight. That's sort of what my L was going for in our last hearing when we gave N/BPDx three things to do, which we knew full well he wouldn't do because: BPD. We go back to court in September, and he will be on the defensive because he hasn't complied with anything. Most people, when given a directive by the court, will comply, like you did Waddams when you paid up on time. BPD sufferers cannot do that. I found my judge to dole out the stiffest ruling only after N/BPDx showed a pattern of non-compliance with court orders.
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 08:55:18 PM »

And I did ask my L if bringing everything we have up now would strengthen the case for custody later.  Basically a "see... .we told you about all this drama last time too".  She said she'd have to think on it, but did acknowledge that there might be value in doing it.

Ask you L what she thinks about asking your ex to do something as a condition of showing she can stick to a schedule for S10, sort of like putting her on probation as a tactical move. Not phrased like that in court, just the idea. That strengthens your hand the next time you go to court because it's something your ex will have agreed to in front of the judge, so it carries more weight. That's sort of what my L was going for in our last hearing when we gave N/BPDx three things to do, which we knew full well he wouldn't do because: BPD. We go back to court in September, and he will be on the defensive because he hasn't complied with anything. Most people, when given a directive by the court, will comply, like you did Waddams when you paid up on time. BPD sufferers cannot do that. I found my judge to dole out the stiffest ruling only after N/BPDx showed a pattern of non-compliance with court orders.

I absolutely agree with this! They simply cannot seem to bring themselves to comply with anything. They'll spend tons of energy trying to wiggle around compliance. But that's also exactly what your L is telling you. I like the idea of coming up with just a few small (but preferably ongoing) things that she will need to do because when she doesn't do them, it's just more ammo.

My only concern about not going for custody now is that changing schools after everything that's already gone on will be A Big Deal.
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 09:57:29 AM »

My big concern about not making the custody argument now is this:  By not doing it now, am I showing I'm not concerned now with the schedule chaos?  The other side will be able to say "if you were so concerned about this you would have spoke up.  You weren't concerned really so you didn't speak up."

Basically, can they look back later and say I was approving/agreeing that the situation was okay because I didn't challenge it when I had the chance?

Excerpt
Ask you L what she thinks about asking your ex to do something as a condition of showing she can stick to a schedule for S10, sort of like putting her on probation as a tactical move. Not phrased like that in court, just the idea. That strengthens your hand the next time you go to court because it's something your ex will have agreed to in front of the judge, so it carries more weight. That's sort of what my L was going for in our last hearing when we gave N/BPDx three things to do, which we knew full well he wouldn't do because: BPD. We go back to court in September, and he will be on the defensive because he hasn't complied with anything. Most people, when given a directive by the court, will comply, like you did Waddams when you paid up on time. BPD sufferers cannot do that. I found my judge to dole out the stiffest ruling only after N/BPDx showed a pattern of non-compliance with court orders.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I absolutely agree with this! They simply cannot seem to bring themselves to comply with anything. They'll spend tons of energy trying to wiggle around compliance. But that's also exactly what your L is telling you. I like the idea of coming up with just a few small (but preferably ongoing) things that she will need to do because when she doesn't do them, it's just more ammo.

I understand.  And we can come up with something to ask for.  My money is on uPDxw not agreeing to anything to start with though.  She will fight taking on any and all commitments.  It's what she's always done before and I don't think it will change.  But that will just make her look more unreasonable and uncooperative, which will still help me.

Excerpt
I would certainly recommend that you make sure you have your son's doctor's phone number in your cell phone, and dentist, etc.  And that you get to know all his teachers very well, and meet the school principle and the school counselor, etc.

If you enjoy drinking or whatever, do that on the evenings he's not with you, and do your best to schedule time so you can be available for him while he's in your care - you aren't hanging out with friends or partying at Planet Hollywood.

But you don't need to hold yourself up to unreasonable standards or re-make your whole life around your son.  He's old enough to fit into your life somewhat - you can take into account what he likes to eat, but you don't have to have pizza every night - he can learn to eat what you enjoy too.  You can find the movies you both like, and take turns picking what to watch on TV, within reason - he doesn't have to have everything his way.

This has been an ongoing issue with my kids,  now S16 and D17.  They learned from their BPD mom that if everything isn't what they want, the thing to do is throw a fit.  It's my job to make sure that isn't effective, and that sometimes means they aren't happy because they don't get what they want.  You'll have to be a good dad, and strong and wise, which doesn't mean that everything will be your son's way, or that you give up everything important to you when he's around.

I already have all the phone numbers and contacts.  And I agree with everything you've written, and really already do it.  I can show a calendar and documentation that's ironclad and above challenge that I've had 70% overnights for the last 2 years.  So the reality is if I'm given custody, not much is gonna change vs. what's been happening from S10's perspective, except S10 will go back to school.

I even get the fit throwing when S10 doesn't get his way when he's first back from his mom's.  That first day back is when he gets timeouts in his room the most often!  But yeah, at my house, I'm in charge, the kids are not.  When I get home from work, if I want to watch a show, they get kicked off the TV.  If they're too loud, they get sent upstairs.  They eat what we make, and they do the chores they're assigned.  Or they loose priviledges and/or get extra chores/etc.  My front flower beds are weeded very well by the manual labor of kids in the house!  They fight against it, but they do thrive at the same time (SO's kids are all 4 straight A students).  It's proof that kids might fight structure and discipline, but they do deep down appreciate it and thrive with it.

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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 10:08:20 AM »

So for one thing, I need to let go of the wanting custody, but not wanting to take him away from his mom thinking.  I'm trying to have it both ways and in the end that probably won't work out well.

Yes, definitely.  Helping her too easily would end up hurting and sabotaging yourself.  Present your case and don't try to be overly fair or overly nice.  Court will already be bending over backwards to help your ex, no need for you to add to it.

I had Shared Parenting after the divorce.  When I documented to the court we settled along GAL's recommendation - I got custody but parenting time remained equal.  GAL wanted that so ex could get child support and "be more stable".  :)idn't happen and I went back a couple years later seeking majority time.  Court ruled ex was not behaving properly during school events or helping enough with homework, disparaging father in son's presence, used several other negative descriptive words too.  Not one bad word was written about me.   Despite the one-sided conclusion of the court, I got majority time only during the school year.  I attribute that to her school-related behaviors.  There were other lesser changes in the order, but that was the only major one.  All her disparaging and other stuff didn't gain me majority time also during the summer.  Ex kept that, as the decision stated, "one more try".

In light of what happened to me, I think you may not get majority time during the summer.  It could go either way.  You may end up like me, gaining school time and leaving summers as equal time.  You need to focus on son's needs and the court will see that as School.  You should get majority time for that since you'd be the parent who would assist most with homework.
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 10:12:40 AM »

My big concern about not making the custody argument now is this:  By not doing it now, am I showing I'm not concerned now with the schedule chaos?  The other side will be able to say "if you were so concerned about this you would have spoke up.  You weren't concerned really so you didn't speak up."

Basically, can they look back later and say I was approving/agreeing that the situation was okay because I didn't challenge it when I had the chance?

Ask your L what the middle road looks like. Meaning, do you add the custody piece to the motion (assuming you will be filing one in advance of the next hearing?), knowing that you will not fight the good fight right away. Sort of like planting the flag. In which case, your L tells the judge, Your honor, my client believes based on past experience that S10's mother cannot provide a stable and consistent home environment and that while S10 might be in school, he will not have the structure and routine he needs to keep up. My client wants to change the custody schedule. We are prepared to go forward with this and hear all the evidence today, or we can defer to your judgment about whether to give the opposing party these safeguards to ensure that S10 has the kind of structure and stability that is essential for kids with ADHD/asperger's. These are the safeguards, blah blah blah.

Something like that?





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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2014, 10:43:56 AM »

Excerpt
Ask your L what the middle road looks like. Meaning, do you add the custody piece to the motion (assuming you will be filing one in advance of the next hearing?), knowing that you will not fight the good fight right away. Sort of like planting the flag. In which case, your L tells the judge, Your honor, my client believes based on past experience that S10's mother cannot provide a stable and consistent home environment and that while S10 might be in school, he will not have the structure and routine he needs to keep up. My client wants to change the custody schedule. We are prepared to go forward with this and hear all the evidence today, or we can defer to your judgment about whether to give the opposing party these safeguards to ensure that S10 has the kind of structure and stability that is essential for kids with ADHD/asperger's. These are the safeguards, blah blah blah.

Something like that?

I'll have to ask L about that.  What kind of safe guards?  Maybe:

-S10 rides the bus home to my house after school every day.  His mom can pick him up from there on her time when she's available, not in class/doing tree jobs/etc.  But that gives S10 a consistent landing spot each day.  There will also be adequate supervision as SO's kids are 16, 14, 13, and two of them have been through babysitter training classes and have the certificates, I'm 20 minutes away driving at work, so close enough that I can head out early if needed.  And I have history of flexibility from my boss with such things.

-S10 continues to spend evenings with me when his mom can't exercise her time due to classes/tree jobs/etc.  Almost like a right of first refusal.  SShe's actually changed her behavior by changing who she dumps him off with since I filed.  It used to be me.  Now it's one of several different home school people she's met in these unschooling groups.  Basically lots of people that don't send their kids to school and don't really home school either.  Birds of a feather right?  One could say she's trying to withhold him from me and what he had gotten used to as a response to the case being filed.  Anyway, an order that he comes to me when she's not available makes for more consistency for him, as well as I'm the one that will be shepherding him through going back to school,etc., less caregivers, less shuttling around, less schedule chaos for S10.

-S10 has established sibling like relationships now with SO's kids.  Their basically step siblings in all but legality because we aren't married yet.  But SO's kids call him step brother, he calls them step brothers/sisters/etc.  And 70% overnights the past 2 years.  He's used to them. 

But how is that not just holding back from stating I really just need custody?  Is this getting again into trying to have it both ways like described above?  My L might even look at it backwards and say let her struggle with her time, document her dropping the ball with school as a result, THEN use it to go for custody.

But all that is why I need to think about it more, decide what to go for, instruct L accordingly, and make the best fight we can.

Excerpt
Yes, definitely.  Helping her too easily would end up hurting and sabotaging yourself.  Present your case and don't try to be overly fair or overly nice.  Court will already be bending over backwards to help your ex, no need for you to add to it.

Yup.  And I don't necessarily mind her having every other week when S10 is not in school, but as he grows older, gets more embedded with neighborhood friends/etc., he'll definitely want to stick closer more often as well, and not be gone every other week to a place where there are no peers (and there aren't in her neighborhood).  Maybe every other week until he's 12/13, then standard every other weekend and extra time as he asks for it for times when he's not in school and older?

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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2014, 01:00:29 PM »

But how is that not just holding back from stating I really just need custody?  Is this getting again into trying to have it both ways like described above?  My L might even look at it backwards and say let her struggle with her time, document her dropping the ball with school as a result, THEN use it to go for custody.

All I can say is that in my case, there was a surprising (and frustrating) amount of patience involved in letting N/BPDx pull his act together. I do believe that there is a bias toward moms being the primary caregiver and all, but that sure didn't made it a cake walk trying to get full custody for me as a mom.

In my view, there are two tracks to custody. One track is documenting when the other parent really messes up big time or consistently messes up over a long period of time, and people start to lean in and agree that maybe something bad is happening, judges included. Like my ex having a psychotic episode that he conveniently documented by email, text, and phone. (Thanks N/BPDx.) The other track to custody is when the court gives the other parent a bunch of chances, and that parent can't comply with court orders. Honestly, I think court takes that way more seriously.

So your L is advising you to cover your bases -- she wants you strong on both track one and track two. But how you implement your strategy to do this is important, and that's why you need to knock heads with your L and find out whether you can flag the custody issue now (more than just raise it in court, but to enter it as part of the motion, because it might not technically "count" if it isn't entered legally), and then work out the next 15 chess moves in advance so that you are in a stronger position a year from now or whenever you're ready to close on this.

My guess is that your L is trying to beef up that second track, so work out how best to do that. S10 comes home to your house every day. No exceptions. Routine routine routine. When biomom is in class, S10 stays with you. Routine routine routine. She cannot pick him up and take him out of school. No exceptions. Maybe see if there are social skills classes in your area -- which are great for ADHD/Asperger's kids, btw -- and enroll him in that. Let her be in charge of taking S10 each week because you are all about them having a relationship as long as she can be consistent. Right? Or something like that. Stuff that can be easily documented, that she will have trouble sticking to, that show good faith efforts to work out a reasonable compromise, and that are in S10's best interests.
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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2014, 01:12:41 PM »

Yeah, it could be a good tactic to have some in-between solutions in your hip pocket - discuss with your lawyer what outcomes might be workable, so if it comes to that, you can put forward a sensible compromise that you believe would work OK.

But... .one of the mistakes I think we make pretty often is by going to the compromise too soon, and never really laying out the case for what we believe is best for the child.

I think it's very worthwhile discussing with your attorney - and with us here - what you believe would be the best outcome for the child, and why.  Develop that thought process and get very good at explaining it and backing it up with good reasons and evidence.

"I believe the best outcome for S10 is to be with me most of the time, because that will give him a sense of security and stability which he needs, and because I can help him do well academically and emotionally.  I think if Mom wants him to spend one night with her every other weekend, and if she wants to have him for dinner one night a week, that could work well, so long as he comes home after school to the same house every day.  I can provide very well for all his needs - emotional, academic, exercise, a good diet - everything he needs.  His mother has shown she can't do that - for example, she is not able to make the right choices regarding school."

... .or whatever is the best, clearest summary you can make of what you believe is best, and why.  Plus whatever evidence you can bring when the time is right.

We tend to tip-toe around this and never quite put it out on the table clearly... .
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 08:22:14 AM »

Saw my T yesterday.  He thinks I should go for custody.  uPDxw will doing her classes/tree stuff/etc. so I'll likely have S10 my time and a good bit of her time anyway.  I'll be the one leading the charge to fix school regardless of what the paper says the custody percentages are.  Might as well try to make the paperwork match reality.

When I divorced originally, my L came to me with an offer of 40/60 custody from my uPDxw at mediation.  L advised me to take it.  I refused and fought for more.  And won.  L advised me at the time a judge might not award that much to me, so take what you can get and don't take the risk of losing it.  I just could't do it, so said no. 

I have a different L now, but the situation is basically the same.  L is recommending what she sees a less risky strategy.  Take what I can easily get and not rock the boat too much.  As a Professional Engineer, I do the exact same thing with my clients.  And I get pissed when I give a recommendation, they don't take it, I know they'll get burned, then later they turn to me to try to clean up the mess they made when I KNOW it all would have been better if they'd listened to start with.  So I try to listen to and follow professionals advice when given.

At the moment I'm leaning towards going for it.  Going to give it a bit more time and see how it evolves in my mind though.
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2014, 09:18:49 AM »

If you ask, you might receive; if you don't ask, you won't receive.  While you don't want to be asking for the moon in an unreasonable and entitled way, you can ask for a decent slice of it, a right-sized slice.

Remember too that courts often don't want winners or losers.  Court may not want to grant everything you ask for.  If you ask for little, you may get less.  If you ask for what it right and appropriate, you may still get less but it would be closer to what your child needs.

Judges and lawyers have conferences all the time.  It wouldn't hurt for your lawyer to state that you're only asking for what will work.  If the outcome isn't close to that then sure as the sun rises in the east you'll be right back in court in months or a couple years asking to the remaining fixes yet again.  Judges don't want the parents back in court over and over.  That may give incentive for a slightly better order.

My story... .  When I separated and later filed for divorce, I asked for custody.  I got alternate weekends, it didn't work.  When we settled for Shared Parenting and equal time for the final decree, I knew the new wouldn't last.  About 1.5 years later I was back in court filing for custody.  I got it but GAL didn't want ex to lose her equal parenting time, I knew the new order wouldn't last.  About 1.3 years later I filed for majority time.  I got it but only during the school year.  However, this time I think the order can work, but it took 8 years to get here. :'(  Looking back, I see that I had 3 cycles through court, each time a year to try to get it work, then another year and a half back in court seeking fixes.  Eight years of my life, eight years of my son's life from age 4 through age 11, some of his most formative years.

My lawyer told me the professionals don't want to 'upset' the child by making drastic changes to the child's life.  Problem is, what if NOT making drastic changes is a worse long term for the child?  Do the courts consider that perspective?  Was that why each time in court I got only a portion of what I sought but eventually what I asked for years before was how it turned out many $$$ and many years later?
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2014, 11:34:04 AM »

So have decided to push hard for a custody change to me having majority time.  In the end, S10 needs the structure.  He's going to need as much stability as can be provided for transitioning back to regular school.  

I'm going to be doing some trial prep w/ L, but to me at least, it breaks down like this:

-School change is needed because S10 is falling behind academically, and to be honest, developmentally.  He can barely write his own name at 10 years old now.  We've got her deposition, 3rd party testing results, and various other documentation that just plain shows that S10 just isn't doing much in the way of school work with his mom's "homeschooling".  His mom's ideas of things to do just don't add up.

-Custody change is needed mainly to give S10 a better life foundation from which I can get him back on track.  He needs the stability and routine.  If the back and forth in his schedule continues it will add more stress to him in a situation that is already going to be at least initially stressful and difficult.  I'm seeing signs of the stress from all the back and forth and chaos in his life as it is.  Having him go back to school (which he isn't gonna be happy about at least at first) with the other life chaos continuing will make it a lot harder on S10 than things need to be.  His mom is continuing her classes, and her tree service business, so her life stays crazy schedule wise.

-Consistent/stable peer socialization is gonig to be a big help too for him.  He's made friends with neighborhood kids, and being able to have the same peer group will be a big help.  He doesn't have that right now.

-His mom's current lifestyle/classes/etc. will also prevent her from making sure he's doing his school work.  She's had periods in the past (both recent and not so recent - shows a long standing issue) where she couldn't keep up and his work didn't get done.  He'd also not do his classwork, fall behind, and I'd spend a bunch of time getting him caught up when I'd get him back.

-S10 is going to need be in the custody of a parent that is willing to do that hard work this situation is going to need.  S10 is behind academically, falling behind developmentally, and it's going to be hard work for me, and hard work for S10 to get caught up and get back on track academically and developmentally.  uPDxw has never been willing to step up and take responsiblity and accountability for hard work.  And she has a very long pattern of splitting me black and focusing more on trying to be spiteful towards me in various situations than focusing on S10's needs and best interest.  Again, long standing issue, some incidents are old, but I think it just shows a long standing pattern of behavior, and it very strongly shows that a great deal of the issues that have come up for S10 are because his mom is not focused on him, but on her own conveniences and selfishness, and she gets very ugly towards me anytime she gets challenged.

So I think I go in and outline the issues, and then propose to fix it with the following measures:

-S10 gets re-enrolled in school.  I've talked with the school admin.'s and he'd initially get slotted in on grade level for his age, but evaluated quickly.  Let the professionals evaluate him and give an opinion of where he really is.  After there's a good read on where he is then follow the professional's advice (school and bring in private help if needed) to get S10 back on track.

-Award me majority time.  His mom isn't going to be able to contribute much anyway.  That's why she's let things go so much.  It's just not convenient for her to do much with everything else she has going on.  Since she can't/won't depending on your perspective, Let me take charge.  I've already done it in practical terms for everything I can anyway (I can cite a boat load of examples).  It's also needed, as I said above, because S10 needs the routine to support his transition back to school.  

We think they're going to try to claim I'm just doing this to get out of child support.  I plan to attack that one with:

-I've never not paid.  I've never been late.  I've never filed for a modification of anything.

-I can show paying more than my court ordered portion of other expenses.

-In the last legal go round - I just focused on finding a way through the situation to improve some issues for S10 at the time.  Money never came up.

-And I think I've got more than adequate justification to show for having filed this case.

I think they might also try to throw mud at me because I'm not married to SO but living w/ her and her 4 kids.  In response to that:

-First, it costs us $20k per year to get married right now.  There's a breakdown of that, but it's a big impact.

-Second, SO and her kids are not germane in any way to the educational and development issues happening.

-While SO and I share expenses, I don't really spend a lot of money on her kids.  Particularly for school clothes, fees for band/chorus/etc., their food, and other stuff.  Their mom pretty much pays for all of that.

-I pay for S10's things of that nature (scouts/soccer/etc.) pretty much on my own as well.  uPDxw doesn't pay for anything.

-For S10's activities, his mom doesn't attend much.  She's had too much in the way of classes/tree jobs.  I'm the one that takes S10 to soccer, attends the games, etc.  on my time and hers.  And I'm happy to do it.  And while I attend activities with SO's kids, I skip 'em when S10 has something.  S10 always comes in as top priority.

-uPDxw has never objected to the situation.  She's even dropped S10 off at the house when I wasn't there, and let the step family take charge of him.  Not since she got served with this action though.  ;-)

I did have a false DV arrest from a prior relationship with a different BPDxgf.  uPDxw knows about it (BPDxgf told her about it when we broke up, yet another split black and spiteful retribution event in my past!).  For that, all I can say is this:

-I still have our statements, and while we both claimed different things, you can see between the two statements that there was an argument that escalated, I tried to retreat, she followed me, and I've got her in writing stating that she did get physical to try to keep me from withdrawing.  I've also got it in writing that after the physical altercation, I again tried to withdraw, got behind a locked door, and she kept beating on it trying to get at me, which is when I called the cops for help.

-uPDxw has never made a claim that I'm not safe.  Further, I've had 70% overnights the last year and a half.  Her sending S10 to me so much of her time I think speaks pretty loudly that she doesn't have a genuine concern in that regard.

Other things I can bring up if needed:

-S10 is allergic to dogs and cats.  uPDxw has 2 dogs and 3 cats.  She's tried to blame me for allergy issues before.  It's really weird, but it's like... .umm... .no has more to do with the dogs and cats at your place.  He doesn't exhibit big allergy problems at my house, and his teachers noted he didn't exhibit it school either.

-uPDxw keeps a flock of chickens in violation of our County's livestock ordinance.  She's on a regular plot, ordinance requires minimum 3 acres to keep livestock.  Has to do with animal droppings, adequate ranging territory, etc.  Not having enough space for the animals is a health hazard, not to mention things like chicken coops stink, annoy neighbors, etc.  So there's basically a potential health hazard at her house in her yard that not only impacts S10 but her neighbors as well.  If code enforcement ever got wind, it's a $1000 fine per violation for first offense, jail time plus fine for subsequent offenses.  At 8 or 9 chickens and 1 chicken = 1 violation, that could be pretty expensive.

This post is probably gonna turn into an outline for me, so I'll probalby end up coming back to update thi
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2014, 11:43:33 AM »

I think - as a layman not an attorney - that your case looks very strong.  No idea whether it's strong enough to give you a change of custody, but if you can get the judge to see exactly what you have laid out here, I think you have a good chance.

So... .about the process... .

First, you want to support this case as you have just laid it out, with as much hard evidence, and/or support from neutral professionals, as you can.  What do you have and what can you get?

Second, how will this play out - a single hearing where the decision will be made?  Or a series of steps?

Also, is your ex making her case - however strong or weak it may be - honestly, based on truth?  Or is she saying things that aren't true?  If the latter, would depositions be a way to get her story on record, so you can find evidence to disprove it before the critical hearing?

And I think we've talked about a Custody Evaluation - is that an option?  It would add time and cost - would it help your chances enough to be worthwhile?

Do you understand how the process will work, well enough to know that you will have the opportunity to make your case as thoroughly as you need to?

And is there a chance to settle out of court?  If your ex has a sensible attorney, can this case be made to her, so she will see her client can't win and she would be wise to settle?
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2014, 11:56:58 AM »

Excerpt
First, you want to support this case as you have just laid it out, with as much hard evidence, and/or support from neutral professionals, as you can.  What do you have and what can you get?

I've got reams of documentation for every point I've made.  Probably more than we can really go through in the time alloted.  I also have an affidavit and report from a child shrink that has some good stuff in it.

Excerpt
Second, how will this play out - a single hearing where the decision will be made?  Or a series of steps?

This is an interlocutory hearing.  So basically it's for temp orders.  No idea what happens after this.

Excerpt
Also, is your ex making her case - however strong or weak it may be - honestly, based on truth?  Or is she saying things that aren't true?  If the latter, would depositions be a way to get her story on record, so you can find evidence to disprove it before the critical hearing?

Honestly, I have no idea what her case is.  She's been deposed already.  I've got so much documentation to shoot holes in it all already.

Excerpt
And I think we've talked about a Custody Evaluation - is that an option?  It would add time and cost - would it help your chances enough to be worthwhile?

No time for a CE before the hearing this Friday.  And I don't have the cash for it immediately either.  Especially for temp orders though, while it would help, I don't think it adds much given everything I've already got set up.

Excerpt
Do you understand how the process will work, well enough to know that you will have the opportunity to make your case as thoroughly as you need to?

This is the biggest thing I'm worried about.  I don't know how long we get, so I need to pick out the most important items.  I need to have a presentation ready to bang through quickly and efficiently.  Some of these things I need to not put into my "opening case" for custody, and instead save as counter punches to throw when uPDxw starts throwing mud.  I need to start off focusing on S10, and just S10.  And then use the rest to dispel her claims AND show stronger how she's focusing on trying to throw mud at me in the hopes something sticks instead of concerned for S10's well being.

Excerpt
And is there a chance to settle out of court?  If your ex has a sensible attorney, can this case be made to her, so she will see her client can't win and she would be wise to settle?

At the moment, I would be stunned if they offered a settlement.  uPDxw is so entitled and just has never given in an inch on anything no matter how wrong even she knew she was.  And I have no idea about her attorney, either.  So far they have no deposed me, or filed a request to depose me.  They only know what they got in a docs discovery request.  And her attorney has filed one request for attorney's fees, a financial affidavit that is so full of lies it's comical, and a new child support worksheet he's proposing.  Yup, that's right, they only things they've filed have been about money.  Shows you their focus.

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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2014, 12:07:04 PM »

This is an interlocutory hearing.  So basically it's for temp orders.  No idea what happens after this.

I thought interlocutory meant one point to be decided as part of a bigger thing. So if the bigger thing was modification of custody, then the interlocutory hearing would be to get S10 back in school and enrolled as one point in the overall motion to modify custody.
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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2014, 12:26:47 PM »

This is an interlocutory hearing.  So basically it's for temp orders.  No idea what happens after this.

I thought interlocutory meant one point to be decided as part of a bigger thing. So if the bigger thing was modification of custody, then the interlocutory hearing would be to get S10 back in school and enrolled as one point in the overall motion to modify custody.

Seems like a very important point - what exactly will be decided at the next hearing, and on what basis will that decision be made?

I had two family law attorneys, and so did my wife, so I have worked with (and paid) four of them.  Plus hundreds more discussed by members here.  One consistent pattern seems to be, they don't explain the process to us (clients) very well unless we sit them down and take the lead and walk them through exactly what steps will happen - how each step works - who says what and what are the basic rules of each hearing, etc.

It may be time for you to have this discussion with your attorney - today if possible! - even 20 minutes by phone, to make 100% sure you know what this next hearing is about, how much time you will have, etc.

My first attorney openly acknowledged that he didn't like to talk about a hearing with the client in advance, or do any preparation - "Takes up all my time.  I do fine just walking in and dealing with things as they come up."  And that's how he actually operated, but he didn't "do fine" - he did a horrible job.  (Or maybe his idea of "doing fine" was that he got paid even if the results for his client were bad.)

We can reasonably assume that an experienced attorney knows the law and the legal process, but unfortunately we can't reasonably assume that she thinks strategically and prepares well.  For that I think you need to take the lead, and demand that she spend whatever time with you is needed between now and the hearing, so you will be super-well-prepared, as a team.

If you are, from what you've said - your case looks very good and you have tons of documentation - you should go in very confident.
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« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 12:42:57 PM »

Okay, so you probably won't get everything you need the first time back in court.  Hmm... .  While still aiming for your eventual goal of custody, can you aim short term for (1) school, (2) in your district! and (3) you as Residential Parent for School Purposes and (4) maybe even Decision-Making or Tie-Breaker, even if only for the "interim".  Once you have RP under your belt that will be a subtle indicator that you're becoming the responsible parent, maybe not custody yet, but a nudge in that direction.

Many courts seem to be very reluctant to assign a parent full custody except under exceptional circumstances.  So even if you don't get full "legal" custody, try to get as close to it as your can.  A way many courts sidestep making one parent look left out as non-custodial parent is to keep joint custody in effect but give Decision-Making or Tie-Breaker to the more responsible parent.  That may be a lower hurdle to accomplish?
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« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2014, 01:01:08 PM »

Okay, so you probably won't get everything you need the first time back in court.  Hmm... .  While still aiming for your eventual goal of custody, can you aim short term for (1) school, (2) in your district! and (3) you as Residential Parent for School Purposes and (4) maybe even Decision-Making or Tie-Breaker, even if only for the "interim".  Once you have RP under your belt that will be a subtle indicator that you're becoming the responsible parent, maybe not custody yet, but a nudge in that direction.

Many courts seem to be very reluctant to assign a parent full custody except under exceptional circumstances.  So even if you don't get full "legal" custody, try to get as close to it as your can.  A way many courts sidestep making one parent look left out as non-custodial parent is to keep joint custody in effect but give Decision-Making or Tie-Breaker to the more responsible parent.  That may be a lower hurdle to accomplish?

In my state, "full" custody is rare, unless one parent is completely out of the picture.

There's "legal custody", which is usually shared;  and there's "residential custody", which can be anything - 50/50, or EOW, or whatever, depending on the circumstances.

Legal custody means big decisions, like where to live, which school, church, and major medical decisions.  Everything else is decided by whichever parent has the child at the moment.

What I was told, by an attorney I came to respect, was to not focus on being the "winner" or "full" custody, but to accept shared legal custody, since the bar to getting sole legal custody was really, really high - I would have had to prove my ex was super-crazy, or dangerous, or whatever.  Trying for that would have made me look extreme.

Same with residential - she told me to look at it in a very practical way, and figure out what would work best, not as a zero-sum game to be won at the other party's expense.

Your logic is generally in line with this - you talk about how his mom's career and other issues don't allow her to give him the help he needs, and how his academic and developmental progress is a concern, and how you have a very clear, practical approach, and good experience, that will allow you to help him with those issues if you are allowed to do that.  Those are all very important, clear and practical issues.

The schedule can fall out of that - he spends most time with you, especially during the week when school will dominate his life, and evenings need to be pretty organized and productive.  His routine will be more, um, routine, which is usually good for kids, especially kids under some pressure to up their game.

But you can (I think) afford to be generous with weekend and holiday time - maybe offer a simple, stable schedule, but allow that after a couple months, if things are going well, and if Mom wants more time, that can be done on three-day weekends, holidays, etc., so it won't impact his schoolwork.

At this age, schools usually don't assign extra work over long weekends;  in fact, the reverse - they expect kids might have family activities so they may assign less homework than usual, giving the kids lots of free time on long weekends, over Christmas, etc.  You can be generous with that time, without risking your priority, which is quality time on school nights.

What I found was, when I focused on putting together simple but thorough solutions, all parties - even my wife and her lawyer - respected that, and were relatively supportive.  If I was passive - if I talked about the problem, but didn't offer a solution - we just fought.  I expected someone else - the court or the attorneys - to put forward solutions, but that was naiive - they never did.  (And of course my wife didn't.  She likes to complain!)

You will also position yourself well as The Solutions Guy, and that will enhance your credibility with the court for the future... .
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2014, 03:38:38 PM »

Excerpt
I thought interlocutory meant one point to be decided as part of a bigger thing. So if the bigger thing was modification of custody, then the interlocutory hearing would be to get S10 back in school and enrolled as one point in the overall motion to modify custody.

This is how my L basically described interlocutory - An interlocutory order is one entered during the pendency of the case and which is not the final decision on the merits.

I was under the impression that you can file a Rule Nisi for an interlocutory order to just discuss one issue, but also can do it for multiple issues.  My impression was that it really depending on what you put in the Rule Nisi filing - basically what are asking to have a hearing about?  But I'm not a lawyer.  My L has said we'll have the chance to talk custody and school, so I'm going with that.

Excerpt
In my state, "full" custody is rare, unless one parent is completely out of the picture.

There's "legal custody", which is usually shared;  and there's "residential custody", which can be anything - 50/50, or EOW, or whatever, depending on the circumstances.

Legal custody means big decisions, like where to live, which school, church, and major medical decisions.  Everything else is decided by whichever parent has the child at the moment.

Yeah here it's called "Primary Custody".  I tend to post generally here because I don't want to give away what state I'm in just in case the spies are watching, but the legalities of what I'm going for are (in order of priority):

-Decision making for school

-Primary Custodial Parent - that encompasses "residential parent for school purposes" and everything else regarding responsibility and accountability for the child's welfare.

-More than 50% parenting time - as much as is needed to ensure S10's going back to school has adequate routine/stability to support his transition and reduce the daily stress he deals with so he can be focused on getting back on track as much as possible with as little stress as possible to him.  Hope that run on sentence makes sense.  I need to work the articulation of that thought and memorize it for quick and effective delivery to the judge.

Excerpt
What I was told, by an attorney I came to respect, was to not focus on being the "winner" or "full" custody, but to accept shared legal custody, since the bar to getting sole legal custody was really, really high - I would have had to prove my ex was super-crazy, or dangerous, or whatever.  Trying for that would have made me look extreme.

Yeah, uPDxw would still have rights, she'd still have a right to have her say.  It would be what we call "Joint Legal Custody" with me as Primary/Custodial and her as non-custodial.  uPDxw will have some visitation schedule.  I need to think of something to propose.  I'm thinking like this:

-Our holiday schedule we've been on for the last 5 years stays the same.

-uPDxw gets every other weekend, plus... .

-Some amount of overnights during the school week, but I don't know what.  I dont' know how to balance S10's need for routine, especially when he first goes back to school, with adding more back and forth and breaking up routine for visitation during school.  I really don't want to damage S10 and uPDxw's relationship either.  I'm just at a total loss on this one.

-We live close by, so when he's on break from school, it goes to 50/50.  Until he's at some age, say 13 or 14, when he gets to decide.  He'll have friends in the neighborhood, etc.  He might very well want to run with them instead of his mom, particularly if she's still out hugging all the trees she cuts down.

-Maybe start with proposing EOW and then adding some to it later as S10 gets in the groove and gets back on track.  But something has got to give between his need for school and underlying stability of life, and both his parents wanting him all the time.  At this point, to get him back on track, I don't think it can all continue.  Something has to give, and obviously I think it should be on his mom's side of all this now.

-Perhaps a statement that additional liberal visitation with mom can happen when circumstances allow for it?  Basically if there are nights his homework is done early, he's caught up on classwork, grades are good, etc.  Ie - things are going well.  Then I can say "you want to go see your mom tonight?"  But I can't even suggest a schedule for weekday visitation because uPDxw's work schedule is so screwy.  Never know when she's gonna get a call and have to go do an estimate.  And in the short term, I don't know what her next semester's class schedule is.  Makes no sense to lock in a schedule and then not be able to follow it.  So maybe just additional liberal visitation for mom whenever circumstances are good for it is the way to go?

Excerpt
Same with residential - she told me to look at it in a very practical way, and figure out what would work best, not as a zero-sum game to be won at the other party's expense.

Yes! That's what I'm really going for.  I'm not trying to do anything at the other party's expense.  This is about identifying what the child needs and both parents needing to get in line with the child's needs, and be willing to make the sacrifices needed.


Excerpt
The schedule can fall out of that - he spends most time with you, especially during the week when school will dominate his life, and evenings need to be pretty organized and productive.  His routine will be more, um, routine, which is usually good for kids, especially kids under some pressure to up their game.

I just agree with this.  I think we're saying the same things here.

Excerpt
But you can (I think) afford to be generous with weekend and holiday time - maybe offer a simple, stable schedule, but allow that after a couple months, if things are going well, and if Mom wants more time, that can be done on three-day weekends, holidays, etc., so it won't impact his schoolwork.

At this age, schools usually don't assign extra work over long weekends;  in fact, the reverse - they expect kids might have family activities so they may assign less homework than usual, giving the kids lots of free time on long weekends, over Christmas, etc.  You can be generous with that time, without risking your priority, which is quality time on school nights.

Obviously I wrote the above part of this post before I got to this!  I like the idea that when S10 is catching up, then mom gets more time, as long as it doesn't get too crazy and start causing issues again.  And also with the exception of if we have out of town vacations scheduled.  She can have extra time, but at the same time, we need to account for traveling as well.

Excerpt
What I found was, when I focused on putting together simple but thorough solutions, all parties - even my wife and her lawyer - respected that, and were relatively supportive.  If I was passive - if I talked about the problem, but didn't offer a solution - we just fought.  I expected someone else - the court or the attorneys - to put forward solutions, but that was naiive - they never did.  (And of course my wife didn't.  She likes to complain!)

I've always been proactive about solutions.  uPDxw has always been proactive about fighting me just to fight me.  Sometimes I feel like if I say "the sky is blue" she'll say no it's red just to be spiteful.

Excerpt
Okay, so you probably won't get everything you need the first time back in court.  Hmm... .  While still aiming for your eventual goal of custody, can you aim short term for (1) school, (2) in your district! and (3) you as Residential Parent for School Purposes and (4) maybe even Decision-Making or Tie-Breaker, even if only for the "interim".  Once you have RP under your belt that will be a subtle indicator that you're becoming the responsible parent, maybe not custody yet, but a nudge in that direction.

Many courts seem to be very reluctant to assign a parent full custody except under exceptional circumstances.  So even if you don't get full "legal" custody, try to get as close to it as your can.  A way many courts sidestep making one parent look left out as non-custodial parent is to keep joint custody in effect but give Decision-Making or Tie-Breaker to the more responsible parent.  That may be a lower hurdle to accomplish?

Yeah.  Like I said before - priorities are: get into school again, then address custody however I can to get as much stability to support S10's transition back to school.  I might not get as much custody as I want, but I won't get any if I don't push for it.
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2014, 04:02:31 PM »

Don't try to be too fair, too generous or whatever.  If your area sees alternate weekends with an evening in between as normal - as most do for "dads" - then that's not unreasonable.  You are not a meanie to start with that.  Maybe the judge will weaken it but you shouldn't have to.  (Not when you're already prepared to have a 50/50 schedule during the summer break.)  You may end up with the judge deciding she gets an overnight rather than an evening, but since school is the big issue, then maybe not.

If your proposed schedule is otherwise normal, then don't second guess yourself by bending over backwards to make it even more 'fair'.  Remember, the judge may want to make a decision somewhere in between what each of you wants so that there is no clear 'winner' or 'loser'.  If you start with a schedule that already has your concessions built in, then when the judge weakens it it may be worse than it has to be.

Yes, there is that darn unwritten and unspoken gender bias.  My story, I lived with alternate weekends and a three hour evening in between as non-primary for over two years in temp orders, despite my ex being charged with threats of DV against me, despite her blocking my parenting for 3 entire months.  Court was in no hurry to fix it, fixes were baby steps.  Now, 3 changes and 8 years later, I have majority time and custody.  I got there but not quickly.  Yet she still has more scheduled time with our son now than when I had the alternate weekend schedule.  Go figure.
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