Move on, move up. Part 2.

[Overbeck]

My original story:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=228963.0

[LettingGo14]

My anger is my torch. And it is lighting the way to freedom.

To continue the discussion, I appreciate and understand the anger.  And the fuel it provides toward freedom.  There's a book called The Journey From Abandonment to Healing that notes anger can be the final stage before "lifting" or "freedom."

There's also the perspective that "anger is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die." 

I think I went back and forth between both kinds of anger for a while.

Here's a description of the stages of abandonment from the book, as described here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=155621.0

Shattering, Withdrawal, Internalizing, Anger, and Lifting – introduced in the book JOURNEY FROM ABANDONMENT.

1: SHATTERING - Your relationship is breaking apart. Your hopes and dreams are Shattered. You are devastated, bewildered. You succumb to despair and panic. You feel hopeless and have Suicidal feelings. You feel Symbiotically attached to your lost love, mortally wounded, as if you’ll die without them. You are in Severe pain, Shock, Sorrow. You’ve been Severed from your primary attachment. You’re cut off from your emotional life-line.

2: WITHDRAWL – painful Withdrawal from your lost love. The more time goes on, the more all of the needs your partner was meeting begin to impinge into your every Waking moment. You are in Writhing pain from being torn apart. You yearn, ache, and Wait for them to return. Love-withdrawal is just like Heroin Withdrawal – - each involves the body’s opiate system and the same physical symptoms of intense craving. During Withdrawal, you are feeling the Wrenching pain of love-loss and separation – - the Wasting, Weight loss, Wakefulness, Wishful thinking, and Waiting for them to return. You crave a love-fix to put you out of the WITHDRAWAL symptoms.

3: INTERNALIZING – you Internalize the rejection and cause Injury to your self esteem. This is the most critical stage of the cycle when your wound becomes susceptible to Infection and can create permanent scarring. You are Isolated, riddled with Insecurity, self- Indictment and self-doubt. You are preoccupied with ‘If only regrets’ – - If only you had been more attentive, more sensitive, less demanding, etc. You beat yourself up with regrets over the relationship and Idealize your abandoner at the expense of your own self Image.

4: ANGER – the turning point in the grief process when you begin to fight back. You attempt to Reverse the Rejection by Refusing to accept all of the blame for the failed relationship, and feel surges of anger against your abandoner. You Rail against the pain and isolation you’ve been in. Agitated depression and spurts of anger displaced on your friends and family are common during this turbulent time, as are Revenge and Retaliation fantasies toward your abandoner.

5: LIFTING – your anger helped to externalize your pain. Gradually, as your energy spurts outward, it Lifts you back into Life. You begin to Let go. Life distracts you and gradually Lifts you out the grief cycle. You feel the emergence of strength, wiser for the painful Lessons you’ve Learned. And if you’re engaged in the process of recovery, you get ready to Love again.

[Tausk]

And again, I'll repeat that I understand the comparing.  I do it. I did it a lot.  And the more I did it, the more I suffered.  For me it's a nice obsessive/compulsive object of attachment that feed my desire to remain tied to my ex.  And comparing, allows the internal release of pain-killing relief of the hormones from anger/rage/jealousy, and most importantly allows me an excuse not to focus on myself.  

When I compare me to my replacement, it brings no relief.  Am I younger/older, kinder, more handsome, athletic, richer, kinder... .Did she have better sex with my replacement. Does he have a bigger penis.  :)oes he listen to her better.  :)oes he understand her better. Will she treat him better because he is better than me.  Will she treat him better because he is less than me... .oh why did she choose him over me?  will she come back because I'm better? ... .NO EXIT!

Where does it end?

And moreover, if my ex traded down, then it that better?  I loved my ex, but if she'd rather be with a loser than with me, what does that say about me?  Or is it more shameful if she traded up and I can't compare?   A major lure of the desire for comparison here in this dynamic is partially sprung from the well of shame of the Disorder.   The Disorder is an attachment disorder with a key cornerstone being shame.  

So the question is how does comparing me to my replacement help me to detach and depersonalize from the Disorder?  For me IT Doesn't Help the Detachment process.  

And, it doesn't because comparison is by nature a examination into the personal nature of the interaction.  

But the flaw is that the interaction was never personally about me.  I was not chosen because of how great I am.  Yes, I was told this was the reason, and I wanted to believe it, but it was not.  

I was chosen because I was too incomplete and immature as an adult to not invite the Disorder into my life.  Just like the guy before me and the guy after me.  My ex did not choose me because of any particular quality.  She chose me because she needed to attach to someone, and I invited her to attach to me.  And she did not leave me because of any particular quality.  She left because neither of us was whole enough to sustain the lie and to not to trigger each other into toxic destruction.

Depersonalizing the Disorder is the only way for me to be free from the Disorder.   I am not special to her. I never was special. Nothing about it was personal.

I was just the next guy in line at the kissing booth with a dollar in my hand.  

My turn is over and it's the next guy who's getting the kiss.

[Overbeck]

I guess what makes all of this horrible for me is that I know that most of it is just in my head.

Even if Professor Superman was a great guy (he is not), my pain is my own. My pain comes from the overwhelming humiliation of being duped by a predatory monster. It comes from giving love and devotion so freely and sincerely to a cancerous thing with no heart, no empathy and with a stated desire to harm me.

It really does not matter if she moved on... .or moved up. What matters is that this new guy represents something inside of me that I do not want to face.

The knowledge I have about him and his awful character is only a fleeting fix for me. It would be worse if I knew he nursed three-legged puppies back to health, built clay huts for poor villagers in Africa and played a b___in' guitar at his lakefront cottage. It is irrelevant to my pain.

Logan and reason tell me that this is not really about him. And while she was the instrument of my pain, she was let in the door to my heart and soul by me. Logic and reason tell me that I should be happy he feeds her alcohol and is now the recipient of her tirades and psychosis.

But I am in deep mental anguish... .and logic and reason do not lay their heads here. What rules here, every day, is not logic and reason---what rules here is a raging river of steaming piss.

[BacknthSaddle]

I suspect that part of this type of thinking comes from mirroring.  During idealization phase, we know what our partners want: us.  We are indeed the perfect version of what they want. Ultimately they push us away, we get split black, then we try to be more of that perfect version of ourselves and consequently just get split blacker.  When they move on, they might move on to someone completely different from us, because of course they weren't looking for a perfect version of "us" after all; they were just looking for a stable self to mirror.  Since we get stuck on the idea that what our partner really wanted was "us," we see the new partner as a lesser version of "us," and thus a trade-down, when it really isn't about up or down at all.  It's just about new.

In my case, my ex and I were not traditionally compatible along lines related to education, socioeconomic status, cultural interests, etc.  In the midst of the relationship I did think "wow, she will never do better than me," and when she found someone new who didn't match me along those parameters, yeah I thought it was a trade down, and I found it very confusing.  But ultimately a) I'm not any better than that guy and as importantly b) I'm not any better than that guy FOR HER.  I am different from him, sure, but there are plenty of women who would prefer what he has to offer ( I don't actually know that much about him) to what I have.  I have a lot going for me but I can be temperamental and condescending and very sensitive.  We all have flaws.  People who truly love us accept us, flaws and all.  PwBPD rarely do.  In this case, though, it really doesn't matter: he's just a different character to mirror.  There is no reason for me to take her choice of partner personally

[goldylamont]

I suspect that part of this type of thinking comes from mirroring.  During idealization phase, we know what our partners want: us.  We are indeed the perfect version of what they want. Ultimately they push us away, we get split black, then we try to be more of that perfect version of ourselves and consequently just get split blacker.  When they move on, they might move on to someone completely different from us, because of course they weren't looking for a perfect version of "us" after all; they were just looking for a stable self to mirror.  Since we get stuck on the idea that what our partner really wanted was "us," we see the new partner as a lesser version of "us," and thus a trade-down, when it really isn't about up or down at all.  It's just about new.

In my case, my ex and I were not traditionally compatible along lines related to education, socioeconomic status, cultural interests, etc.  In the midst of the relationship I did think "wow, she will never do better than me," and when she found someone new who didn't match me along those parameters, yeah I thought it was a trade down, and I found it very confusing.  But ultimately a) I'm not any better than that guy and as importantly b) I'm not any better than that guy FOR HER.  I am different from him, sure, but there are plenty of women who would prefer what he has to offer ( I don't actually know that much about him) to what I have.  I have a lot going for me but I can be temperamental and condescending and very sensitive.  We all have flaws.  People who truly love us accept us, flaws and all.  PwBPD rarely do.  In this case, though, it really doesn't matter: he's just a different character to mirror.  There is no reason for me to take her choice of partner personally

BacknthSaddle this is an awesome post. I do feel the urge to look at the replacement as a downgrade is linked to our attachment to our ex's mirroring, of us perhaps holding on to remnants of us being the 'best' for them, etc.

In general my approach is to say that comparison with the replacement is somewhat inevitable, especially in BPD style breakups where the replacement happens so fast or even before the breakup. So I know many say that comparison is useless, and i can see this perspective. Yet, everyone I've seen saying that it's useless actually went through the process themselves. So for me this indicates that this is simply something that is very common when detaching. I compared, pretty much everyone else does also... .so what can we learn from it?

What I learned was much of what you mentioned BackntheSaddle--I sincerely don't think I'm any better FOR HER than any other guys she's been with. And this isn't because these other guys are worse/better than me in comparison, it's because I don't think I truly saw all of her until I saw her at her worst. When I saw her worst then it made sense the choices she made with men.

I'm trying to be honest when I discuss my immediate replacement--and that i do think that it's not just my knee jerk reaction, but i think most everybody's reaction at the time was that he was a huge "trade down". But I try to stress over and over that in this regard I was just **lucky**. Lucky to not have to feel lesser than the person that came directly after me. My ex is very attractive. Men notice her, and she's actually quite kind, warm when she can be. She comes across as that rare woman who has a very down-to-earth personality despite her outward looks. And to a large degree I believe this to be true. Because I was attracted to her and I know i have high standards, I know that someone else "on my level" would do the same. I feel like if she weren't so desperate to find a replacement, and so desperate to try and embarrass and hurt me in the process... .if she could have waited a while and been choosier (or perhaps just got lucky) she could have found a really cool guy more 'on my level'. It's just in my case it was apparent that she didn't.

And the only thing it means to me is that I was lucky in this regard so that i didn't have too hard a time thinking that this other guy was so much better than me. It still hurt terribly though. The odd thing is that throughout her short-lived r/s with the replacement, both her friends and mine all spoke badly of this guy--I was like the only one who actually tried to defend him. I knew he was just a pawn for her, someone who would give his love unconditionally, easier to fool and easier to control. I felt like he got a bad rap and I was the only one who realized how much of a liar she was when she began to devalue and claim he was a stalker. Eventually though even her friends started to recognize that she had a major part in all of the r/s issues, but it took time for them.

All of this being said, no I don't think i'm better for her at all. Her actions showed me her true character in that moment. I recognize that my ex can be a truly beautiful person, but she's unable to sustain this forever, and I simply can't live with her nasty side. Had to let that go for the next guy to figure out. My replacement could have been more on-my-level or even above, but eventually I would have come to the same conclusions once the truth of who she was came out. I was simply fortunate to find out sooner as the situation allowed.

[myself]

It's just about new.

Someone who hasn't seen, doesn't know, and isn't ruined yet.

[Overbeck]

I'd pay hard money to know the day when her psychosis and his abusive nature collide.

[Turkish]

I suspect that part of this type of thinking comes from mirroring.  During idealization phase, we know what our partners want: us.  We are indeed the perfect version of what they want. Ultimately they push us away, we get split black, then we try to be more of that perfect version of ourselves and consequently just get split blacker.  When they move on, they might move on to someone completely different from us, because of course they weren't looking for a perfect version of "us" after all; they were just looking for a stable self to mirror.  Since we get stuck on the idea that what our partner really wanted was "us," we see the new partner as a lesser version of "us," and thus a trade-down, when it really isn't about up or down at all.  It's just about new.

I couldn't have been more different from her previous two boyfriends, the previous one an ex drug addict. She lamented in an old jounal I found "why am I attracted to such guys, why can't I attract a better guy?" Enter me.

She's gone back to a guy with strong narcissistic traits, even obvious by his FB page (he comes off as weird, and a love addict... .like her, the mirror broke after our second child). A guy young enough to be my son, and far behind in life than either of us were at that age. It isn't about logic, it's about emotion. To a pwBPD, feelings are facts.

So I'm left with,"was it me? Is it him?"

No, leaving aside my rescuer traits and poor boundaries, it's her. Like a lghthouse beacon forever turning, she draws in that which chooses to approach.

[BorisAcusio]

Mine was cheating on me with a candidate for the local municipal election so it was a move up, at least status-wise but only lasted for a few weeks. Now seeing somone who she considers a total "lame, low life" geek but he has a "bullet proof sport betting system" so she's sticking around for possible easy source of money. Her own admission.


It's the second time that she's falling for a gambler. The other one contemplated suicide pact with his SA sufferer wife after his bullet proof system failed and owed huge amount of money to friends, family and colleagues. Now hitchiking as a homeless hobo around the country.

The disturbing thing is that she's completely open about using people for her own needs.

[BacknthSaddle]

The disturbing thing is that she's completely open about using people for her own needs.

Mine was more subtle about this, and I didn't really realize the degree it was true until after we split, when the texts I would get from her (as a "friend" all either were about dumping some emotional baggage on me or addressing some material need.  This was probably always the case; I just wasn't as blind to it. 

I think the main need mine has to meet is not being alone with herself.  This was part of the problem with me: I asked of her a lot of emotional introspection.  This was ok during the idealization phase, but unsurprisingly led to some serious black-splitting.

So I don't think anything about her "trading" will have to do with up or down, although of course she will sell it to people this way.  It will have to do with who can resolve her loneliness and turn her gaze away from her own feelings about herself. 

[peiper]

It has absolutey nothing to do with you. it has to do with her ego fix. Ive been talking to a profiler who is very well versed in BPD, and that is what he says and he hasn't been wrong yet. He predicted when she would come back and he was right. He also says this new guy will get dumped soon . So hang in there.

[Overbeck]

Despite proof Professor Superman is, like my ex, an alcoholic who preys on women like her, I refuse to detach.

I should feel happy. She wounded me to the point of a nervous breakdown and she's with a man that going to make her crash.

QUESTION:

Given my rage towards her, why isn't this knowledge helping me to detach?

[Overbeck]

He predicted when she would come back and he was right. He also says this new guy will get dumped soon . So hang in there.

I used to be able to predict within a few days. Now with her in "shame mode" after me knowing she's with someone else, coupled with an unfortunate sighting between her and I 3 days ago, I'm not sure when it'll come.

My guess is around August 9th. It's Professor Superman's daughter's birthday (I was briefly involved with her), it's a weekend (she breaks NC on weekends) and the daughter HATES my ex (loneliness, abandonment).

If Superman leaves her on the sidelines, I have a storm coming my way.

[LettingGo14]

QUESTION:

Given my rage towards her, why isn't this knowledge helping me to detach?

This is my opinion: "knowledge" does not release one's heart.   For me, I had to drop out of the story of my relationship into my emotions.   I was emotionally bonded to my ex-girlfriend, and that encoded itself in my unconscious, implicit memory.  

When I finally felt the churning emotions -- and, more importantly, allowed the churning emotions --  I was able to ask myself, "what is ruminating on her and a replacement doing for me?"   When I asked myself the open-ended question, "If I was to let go, then... ."

The very first FELT answer (in my chest) was "... .I would be erased."

I had given (what I thought at the time) to be "all of me" to the relationship; hence, letting go would mean "erasing" me (or so I thought).

Once I became consciously aware of what my felt sense was telling me, the attachment bond was loosened.  The chains started to drop away.  I felt scared, and lonely, and sad --- but I was on my own two feet -- and no longer bonded.

[Blimblam]

Listen to letting go

What he's saying works. 

Although when you do feel a new emotion it will flash back to images and story and at first when the emotion is new it will be harder to drop the story. 

Like for me now it is anger and resentment felt in my belly.  But I havnt felt much of that yet.  And now that I am feeling it I find myself contemplating her current attachment and if they are so happy and how I took her from broken to having a good job just as she left me.

[Overbeck]

Listen to letting go

Like for me now it is anger and resentment felt in my belly.  But I havnt felt much of that yet.  And now that I am feeling it I find myself contemplating her current attachment and if they are so happy and how I took her from broken to having a good job just as she left me.

When she applied for her current job, I called a woman I knew in that department and gave my ex a glowing review. I am responsible for her getting hired in a position where Professor Superman was able to prey on her.

I imagine the honeymoon phase is over with. They fight already. And possibly he's already making plans to dump her. His MO can't change anymore than her's can.

LettingGo is spot on right. All of you are. But until the mechanism in my brain responsible for detaching switches on, I'm going to obsess over her smugness that she was "moving on". And my guess is as I type this, she's in bed next to him... .and 12 empty beer cans lay on the coffee table in the living room.

[myself]

until the mechanism in my brain responsible for detaching switches on, I'm going to obsess over her

It's a process more than a switch, but you're right, until you get there you're still getting there. I've seen it as like drops of water falling, eroding away at my resistance. To what? To letting go. I walked away, and have stayed away, but I'm still somewhat connected. Still asking questions, still thinking about her, still posting about her. Getting there, slowly, steadily, assuredly. The drops of water are sometimes hot, melting the ice that slows my forward progress. The drops can be cold, cooling the intensity. There are times it's more like an opened faucet and there's extra growth because of it. That mostly seems to happen due to personal effort. Still attached? The more we let go, the more it turns in our favor. The more change we experience.

[goldylamont]

Overbeck I believe you may have a misunderstanding of the process of detachment if you are viewing the anger stage as an impediment to your detachment. As if you won't be able to detach until the hate and anger are gone. What is really going on is that you have already reached a greater level of detachment than you have before--anger/rage is a *step in detaching, not an obstacle. If you weren't angry enough you wouldn't have string enough boundaries and you would be doing things to keep holding on. Think about all the residual emotions you still have for your ex, your anger protects you and stops you from doing something bad like showing up at Prof Superman's door one night apologizing to and begging for your ex to come back. Your anger says "Hell no, F that!", and counterbalances the void left by her dishonesty. I believe you were together for several years? Expect it to take several years to fully detach... .which is why it's important to find out ways to express your anger in healthy ways -- it's here to teach you something (stay away, keep moving to radical acceptance). I relate the anger stage to being nauseous after a night of heavy drinking. It feels terrible to have to throw up, but your body is purging itself of poison, it's a necessary step to feel horrible so that you don't overdose on alcohol. Same thing here, your anger feels horrible, but its necessary so you don't OD on the toxic thoughts of rescuing and 'love' that no longer serve your greater purpose. It's rightfully supposed to purge you of these ideas. Can you feel it helping you in this regard? You're angriest now because you are no longer being deceived nor lying to yourself about who she is or the situation itself. You are further ahead in detachment than you've ever been, and it hurts like hell, I know.

[Overbeck]

I believe you were together for several years? Expect it to take several years to fully detach... .

That thought absolutely frightens me. Years? I barely think I will make it to Friday.

I believe she is in a horrible place right now. But I do not know. I think she is stuck in a cycle that can only destroy her slowly---and I must admit that gives me pleasure to know if it is true.

Petty, vindictive and immature as it may be, but I want her to suffer at the hands of this man. I just cannot live with the feelings I have right now for years. It is killing me, rotting me from the inside.

Anger may be the next step in detachment, and I know her out of my life is necessary for happiness---but from my seat in front of this keyboard, it is a seething bile that is acidic and eroding my soul.

No man, not one as physically and mentally powerful as I am, should feel this level of pure, unbridled hatred for any other human being.