How Much Is My Fault?

[hurthusband]

its weird right now... one of my kids is with their real dad right now for July and first weekend of this month.  so i been sleeping downstairs in his room.  I went up to let her know i was leaving for work yesterday.  I know if i say nothing she will complain later on she woke up and had no clue what was going on.  So i did, and she didnt acknowledge.  I texted asking if she was ok later in day because she has gotten mad that i didnt once after a fight, no response.  I did not check or call or text again.  I would check with son on his cell to see what is going on since I had a feeling she *might* move out.  This is unusual for her.  So got home, we didnt talk.  She wasnt rude... she offered to go upstairs to let me use the living room tv cause she felt badly that i had nothing to do.  As a family we ate together but didnt talk...

rest of night seperate... dont get me wrong... its waaaaay better than arguing

[Keep]

Hurt,

I feel for you my brother.  I am in EXACTLY the same situation as you.

My wife is exactly like yours.  Mine grew up in a horrible environment that I did not find out about until years after I married her.  We have one son (10yrs) that I love dearly.  He is my only true joy.  I just shudder at what she is doing to him (and me).  The son loves us both (as a child should) and I cannot bear divorcing based upon what it would do to him.  I am his "saving Grace" according to my therapist.  I have to be there for him to help him through his childhood. 

I know the pain you are going through.  It is with my family daily as well.  I don't know the answer.  One thing I do know is that you are not alone.

God help us all.

[thereishope]

I spent almost my entire marriage "fighting for him"  And it was mostly saving him from himself.

Drug use, alcohol abuse and eventually cheating on his end.  But I was supposed to "fight for him"  I did.  A lot.  It was exhausting and messed me up mentally.  The world revolves around him and if I didn't do what he expected (yet I was expected to read his mind about that - if he had to "tell me what he wanted" then I obviously didn't love him enough or know him well).

Typing this out makes me realize exactly how one sided my marriage was.  I had the love blinders on.  Now that they've been removed, I want to kick myself for enabling him for so long.

But I have to thank him for making me the strong individual I am today.  I'm now no one's doormat.  My spine is made of titanium.

It amazes me daily how many of these BPDs use the same WORDS. I have heard "fight for me", and the same lines about "not loving him enough" if I didn't read his mind about his need of the moment, and also that "if I loved him enough", all these things would "just happen naturally"... .

I am in the same predicament as you, hurthusband... .just plain WORN OUT... .even though the rages happen less frequently, (I think), although I definitely exist inside the OZ of FOG, and I am well aware of my own mind's having simply accepted a LOT of unacceptable behaviors toward myself and accepted them as "normal"... .I find myself still WANTING OUT now... .almost hoping for that one magical outburst that will convince my stubborn, brainwashed brain that NOW IS THE TIME to count myself worthy enough to escape this insanity and to have a peaceful, joyful, life, free of the BIG DARK CLOUD OF BPD... .

Not fun, not fun indeed... .Reading daily, praying for God's guidance... .Thankful for this message board and the fact that I am not alone... .

[thereishope]

Quote from OOE:

It is NOT your job to make her happy.  That is not what marriage is about.

It's not our jobs to make anyone happy because we can't. We can only control our thoughts and actions to hopefully become Healy and happy people. Our goal is to find someone who is like minded. If that happens for me I will consider it a blessing and give thanks to God. If I don't find that person I will be single but still happy. I've learned my lesson and will accept nothing less.

Good words OOE!

MWC

It's so nice to hear someone else say these words... .It's what my spirit is longing for... .God knows... .I trust Him... .Praying for Him to deliver me in His way/His timing if this is what He wills... .I know it's what my heart wants... .But I trust Him... .

[hurthusband]

The hard part is these people are sick.  They are self destructive and cannot help themselves.  It reminds of me schizophrenic people and how they refuse to take their meds because it just is in their heads.  

I am really at a loss at this moment... .Things are just limbo right now.  We live in the same house but do not really communicate at all.  She says nothing will change...

So now i am thinking, yup, I am done changing... soo... do i try out this limbo for awhile... it is certainly better than the arguing by far but it is not good neither.  Maybe she comes around and mentally works it out finally with herself to a degree that I am not going to cave this time, or do I just go ahead and seek divorce.

Not sure...  I do not know what is going to happen.  It is just a risk either way.  I know I cannot make her happy, but there is this protecting her from herself.

i know this... I am tired of fighting period.  I am like that person who has fought and then just lays limp as a ball and just takes the kicks.  I could go and divorce, but that is more fighting...  :)o not have the strength to do that.  The sad part and shameful part is that if she just left or died, it is like I could then not have to deal with this crap and could move on.  I would be devastated, but at the point the loss of her does not outweigh the guilt and FOG traps that I am in.  :)oes she have the capability to do okay without me?  Yes... Do i think she will?  I have severe doubts, because she has no resources currently, no support system, no idea what it is like to manage money or be alone, and while she is a hard worker, her default in the face of real life stress is complete breakdown and twice suicide attempts.

I said I would protect her... I made that promise being naive as to what BPD could do and to some of my own limitations, but I made it.  The guilt of leaving/sacrificing her and the kids to save myself... I just do not know.  If I am around, for another 6 years, I can at least get the kids out the door.  I just do not know if myself or her can survive another 6 years of this

[OutOfEgypt]

Check out the karpman drama triangle.  Google it.  It helps diagram what goes on in situations like this... .her taking the role of victim, demanding that you become the rescuer, and then persecuting you into submission (or which provokes you to become a persecutor, in which case she gets to be the victim again).

[hurthusband]

Check out the karpman drama triangle.  Google it.  It helps diagram what goes on in situations like this... .her taking the role of victim, demanding that you become the rescuer, and then persecuting you into submission (or which provokes you to become a persecutor, in which case she gets to be the victim again).

Yea, I have seen it.  I see it happening.  The hard part of all of this is as the spouse of a BPD, we could always use the excuse that "its just their BPD" when in actuality they are right and we are doing something selfish, but we cannot see it because they have basically cried wolf so many times.  Therefore its hard to believe anything they say as real

[mywifecrazy]

Hurt and Keep,

God I feel like you both are feeling only I'm divorced. My insanity didn't start until I FINALLY caught her in an affair after a 20year relationship. I'm still part of her looney tunes world thanks to the fact that we have two minor children together. God it just sucks sometimes!

Hang in there guys... .Whatever your decision is! Praying for peace for you both.

MWC... .

[OutOfEgypt]

The hard part of all of this is as the spouse of a BPD, we could always use the excuse that "its just their BPD" when in actuality they are right and we are doing something selfish, but we cannot see it because they have basically cried wolf so many times.

This is why we have to come to our own conclusions.  I know that we see "selfish" as a dirty word and think probably one of the worst things in the world is to wake up realize we are "selfish", but two things:

1. All of us can be selfish; however, people who are worried about being selfish generally aren't acting selfishly.  We are usually too worried about looking selfish to ever do anything for ourselves.  And we have bought the lie that caring for ourselves is selfish.

2. What is better... .to ruminate and obsess about the 1% of the time we might accidentally do something selfish, and therefore entertaining every single accusation they throw at us, or listen to what we believe and what we think (and at times the opinions of a few trusted friends) and give ourselves a break that we may be wrong at times?  

Don't let your neurotic demand for perfection ("I must be so vigilant that I will NEVER discover that I've been selfish" keep you from listening to your own perceptions and being enslaved to everyone else's.  They may not be perfect, but once you start listening to them (and not the other person) you will find they are FAR more grounded in reality.  Let yourself be human.  Ya know?  I think you're just afraid of disappointing her and letting her feel the weight of her own problems.  I think in some sense you feel like it is your job to be her Hero and her Perfect Savior?

[mywifecrazy]

Quote from OOE:

It is NOT your job to make her happy.  That is not what marriage is about.

It's not our jobs to make anyone happy because we can't. We can only control our thoughts and actions to hopefully become Healy and happy people. Our goal is to find someone who is like minded. If that happens for me I will consider it a blessing and give thanks to God. If I don't find that person I will be single but still happy. I've learned my lesson and will accept nothing less.

Good words OOE!

It's so nice to hear someone else say these words... .It's what my spirit is longing for... .God knows... .I trust Him... .Praying for Him to deliver me in His way/His timing if this is what He wills... .I know it's what my heart wants... .But I trust Him... .

Hey T.I.H... .From our mouths to Gods ears. "Here I am Lord, it is I Lord"

MWC

[thereishope]

Amen, M.W.C... . 

"Whom have I in heaven but You (LORD)?  And there is nothing on earth that I desire besides You.  My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." (Psalm 73:25-26)

[Grey Kitty]

I am really at a loss at this moment... .Things are just limbo right now.  We live in the same house but do not really communicate at all.  She says nothing will change...

I just do not know if myself or her can survive another 6 years of this

I'd suggest that you take advantage of this peaceful time... .and create something for yourself that doesn't involve your wife or her kids. You can set a precedent now, and then stick to it if your wife decides to blow up over it.

Start small, but make a habit out of it--a few hours with a friend or family member once a week. (Didn't you say you let your friends go because of your wife? Can you call one up and try to re-start?)

This sort of thing will build up your strength for times you may need it later.

[hurthusband]

good reinforcement in past few posts...

dont worry about being selfish sometimes

carve out time for self

trust in a higher power

that is one thing I really wish my wife had was faith in God or anything at this point.  She is pretty much an atheist and it kind of angers her at same time.  Faith allows us to also not stress on our problems as much because we can relax and trust in something else.  That is immensely helpful for us mentally just from a health standpoint, never mind if it is correct.

Although, i do believe my belief is correct or why would i believe?

[LilHurt420]

Reading your post I can relate to a lot of that.  My H does the same things, and I'm at the point I'm so broken I just can't stand to hear him talk anymore.  Nothing he complains about is reality.  It's all some conspiracy in his head.  When I try to interject reality it's like it doesn't matter to him because all that matters is whatever craziness he's made up in his head.

Though he's abused me in every possible way... .I'm still the bad guy because I never give him enough credit or attention.  He calls me all sorts of horrible names and awful things.  None of it makes sense to me anymore.  I'm pregnant and just lost my grandfather last week, and even that didn't stop the insults, name calling, and other abuse.

I hate myself... .I hate what I've let myself put up with through the years... .I hate that I've allowed our son to watch this stuff go on... .I hate that I'm bringing another child into this craziness.  I too believe at this point I'd be better off dead (though I don't want to die... .I'm not sure what could ever make this better).

[hurthusband]

I hate myself... .I hate what I've let myself put up with through the years... .I hate that I've allowed our son to watch this stuff go on... .I hate that I'm bringing another child into this craziness.  I too believe at this point I'd be better off dead (though I don't want to die... .I'm not sure what could ever make this better).

sums up everything right there.  When my wife got accidentally pregnant, I will not go into the specifics of that... but she asked me what to do.  I said of course that I would support anything she thought was right.  She wanted my opinion, I said abortion, which is retrospect was a mistake.  I feel horrible about it and it let to a massive spiraling.

Now yesterday, she calls and says that today is the last day for school registration for kids, and she needs a utility bill with her name on it.  Well, the utility bills all have my name on it and we do not have the same last name cause she did not want to take it and i am the step father.  She goes ballistic.  I then dont get home til 8 because a haircut appointment ran over 20 minutes.  ballistic again.  She says we can go first thing this morning at 7 am before work.

she then doesnt want to go.  i offer to come home midday and handle it... she says no.

now the attorney is saying she must have something else she did cause the city is coming down on her so hard on a dwi.  She goes ballistic and says she needs a new attorney with court tommorow.  I do not know what to do.  I been saying for weeks lets look at new attorneys.  I have written them down. 

Everything seems a blur at the moment.  I cannot handle this.  I just cannot.  Boss leaving town today and I am in charge.  I literally want to die, but I have said that so many times here... its pathetic.  Its not fair to anyone here nor to my family.  She blames me for this all... and I do not know what to do.  I do not want to see her suffer anymore.  I do not want it.  I cannot handle it.  If I was dead then i would not have to witness it.  Divorcing and leaving doesnt mean she doesnt suffer.  it doesnt mean i dont stop carrying or feeling guilty or hurting for her.  she says everything i do makes her feel like ___ and she is moving out now

her mother is dying of cancer, she has a dwi trial, she has no career, no income, looks like we divorcing.  how can i not feel bad even if some of it is her fault?  what could i have done differently to prevent some of it? 

if it is not real, why do i feel it is?

[Mutt]

Hi hurthusband,

My heart goes out to you. You are going through a lot of difficulties and I'm sorry. She's triggered and difficult to deal with. I understand, I've been there with my wife and it's so frustrating and confusing.

what could i have done differently to prevent some of it?

Unfortunately we can't change past events, You did the best you could do what more can be asked of you? It's affected you because you care, your heart is in it.

You have a lot on your plate and your boss is out of town. How are you managing at work right now?

[hurthusband]

Hi hurthusband,

My heart goes out to you. You are going through a lot of difficulties and I'm sorry. She's triggered and difficult to deal with. I understand, I've been there with my wife and it's so frustrating and confusing.

what could i have done differently to prevent some of it?

Unfortunately we can't change past events, You did the best you could do what more can be asked of you? It's affected you because you care, your heart is in it.

You have a lot on your plate and your boss is out of town. How are you managing at work right now?

highstrung... feel bit ready to snap. feel a bit out of body.  ultimately, the DWI thing is all that super worries me anymore.  Once that is finished, I can calm down because I do worry for her on that regardless of what happens to us.  If they take her license, how does she make a living?  what about the kids?

[Mutt]

She's looking for a new attorney. Can she adjourn until she finds new representation?

[hurthusband]

She's looking for a new attorney. Can she adjourn until she finds new representation?

i cant get her to see one... its all on me and i keep making her feel stupid and bad

[Mutt]

She's looking for a new attorney. Can she adjourn until she finds new representation?

i cant get her to see one... its all on me and i keep making her feel stupid and bad

What is she going in for tomorrow? I understand it's DUI but is it plea, adjournment, arraignment?

[hurthusband]

She's looking for a new attorney. Can she adjourn until she finds new representation?

i cant get her to see one... its all on me and i keep making her feel stupid and bad

What is she going in for tomorrow? I understand it's DUI but is it plea, adjournment, arraignment?

First time she required to be in court so I suppose arraignment

[Mutt]

She's looking for a new attorney. Can she adjourn until she finds new representation?

i cant get her to see one... its all on me and i keep making her feel stupid and bad

What is she going in for tomorrow? I understand it's DUI but is it plea, adjournment, arraignment?

First time she required to be in court so I suppose arraignment

OK hurthusband,

I understand how difficult this is. You are trying to be helpful with your wife and she's acting out. It's tough. If it's her first appearance, it means that you have time on your side. Courts are stressful, I share a similar experience.

My wife was impulsive and had difficulties with being able to see the bigger picture but it would pass. This is difficult to see when there is so much going on and many emotions attached to that for you.

Can you accept that there is time. How does that look like for you?

[Grey Kitty]

Your efforts to "help" or "manage" her DUI trial and attorney choices aren't making things better. I would call it enabling her bad behavior rather than supporting her if you run around doing stuff that she demands... .or run around doing stuff she can't focus on and doesn't know she needs.

This is her problem--let her deal with it.

From the sounds of it, she will try to blame you for any and all bad outcomes. Not because they are your fault, but because she cannot (emotionally) handle taking the blame herself.

Give her the list of attorneys again and tell her that picking a new one (or staying with the existing one) is her choice and her job, and you don't know how to select the right one.

Then refuse to engage her with that issue anymore.

All you are getting when you let her engage you with this is verbal abuse and personal stress.

[KateCat]

now the attorney is saying she must have something else she did cause the city is coming down on her so hard on a dwi. 

Does your wife have prior convictions, hurthusband? I think I remember you mentioning a series of incidents she has been involved in with other people--one possibly involving property damage.

If so, I wonder if the attorney/judge might be able to consolidate her cases under their mental health docket, if your county has one. It can be a way to see the bigger picture and get people the help they need. In my jurisdiction there's a sort of "social work" aspect to this type of management of an individual's ongoing legal problems.

I agree with Grey Kitty. If you step away from the DUI action, this could be a significant chance for your wife's problems to come to light. She does need professional help.

[Grey Kitty]

If you step away from the DUI action, this could be a significant chance for your wife's problems to come to light. She does need professional help.

That sort of outcome would be a nice bonus. I was suggesting you step away because I cannnot right now imagine a scenario where you try to "help" and have anything good of it come from your wife.

[hurthusband]

If you step away from the DUI action, this could be a significant chance for your wife's problems to come to light. She does need professional help.

That sort of outcome would be a nice bonus. I was suggesting you step away because I cannnot right now imagine a scenario where you try to "help" and have anything good of it come from your wife.

My wife is in therapy... 2x a week with a psychologist and she has a psychiatrist she sees 1x a month usually.  Honestly, I think the psychatrist is a whacko.  She keeps prescribing her stimulants, and LOTS of them along with sleep aids saying her problem is mainly adult ADD. Her psychologist has her for BPD and I think that is on target

As far as mental health docket... .I will say while I am an independent, I would be a conservative, and even though I am a conservative, I am in the state of Texas and am appauled at how we treat mental health.  Honestly, mental health is not even factored in on anything it seems.  State of Texas actually spends less on mental health per person than any other state in the USA and is one of the more financially successful states so go figure.  There is just about nothing for mental health here...

Her record is clean though... .this is a first run in with law.  It is surprising she hasnt been hit for a DWI before, and she has done some things that would get her arrested, but dodged more than a few bullets.  Oddly enough, this time I think she was entrapped.  The cops pulled over one girl for a broken taillight then got her on marijuana but when she was released she noticed her taillights were fine.  My wife they said was speeding, but issued no speeding ticket nor anything.  They also said she blew a 2.1.  I have a hard time believing she was a 2.1 because I talked to her when she left.  She did not slur any speech and her friends said she appeared fine.  In any case, I am sure she was still over legal limit and it was bound to happen, but I do not like that cops were doing that and doing it to everyone at this same bar.

We went to court yesterday and she was kind.  When we got there the DA offered a deal for probation for 18 months.  A fine of $1200, mandatory meetings and courses, breathalizer for 18 months (could be reduced to 9 if all is good), and a parole officer. 

The thing that scares me afterwards is i found out there is probation and there is deferment probation which was not explained to us.  Apparantly, one goes away after probation and one stays on record after probation. Also apparantly if it does stay you end up having to pay a surcharge of $2k a year for 3 years, and of course insurance rates etc.  It would have been nice to have that all clarified before hand.  Now, she did blow, so I suppose she was destined to get slammed anyways.  The problem is that because she was registered that high, it meant little compromise.

Anyways, I find that out when i get back to work.  I call to see if she has the sheet when she informs me she is at a movie with the kids which coincidentally was the movie I had told everyone all year was the movie i wanted to see most of the tentpoles which irked me.  In any case, I was behind on work... Her parents once again scheduled her sisters bday at a time that was impossible for me to get to from work on time so it was missed.

When we got home, my wife brought home this horrible movie that I did not want to see but I sat to be a family and tolerated this horrible horror film.  The whole time she is up and moving about and not sitting with us.  AFter the movie she says she is going to get a shower, so i watch what I want to.  I had not watched what I wanted too in about a week.  1.5 hours later she comes down screaming at me that I do not care etc.  I just say I am unsure what I did and then I get ready for bed on the couch.  She comes out saying I need to movie and she is tired of me hurting her etc. 

so I sit her now baffled.  How am I the villian who does not care and does not value her?  I do not say the things she says, I do not pick her apart.  Honestly I feel its herself picking herself apart and projecting it on me.  I am tired... Very tired.  I do not know how to pay off all this crap she has done, I do not get any time for myself, I am made to feel selfish if i do.  It does not make any sense to me

[OutOfEgypt]

so I sit her now baffled.  How am I the villian who does not care and does not value her?  

You aren't.  That's what you have to accept and believe.  Her version of reality is skewed, so you have to listen to your own.  You'll never care "enough".  That is her pathology -she has to be the victim.  It's just the way it is.  You didn't make her the "victim", you can't "save" her, and she's not going to sit up one day and say, "You've done everything for me.  I'm finally happy with you."  It won't happen.  So, you need to stop looking for reality through her eyes.

[KateCat]

They also said she blew a 2.1.  I have a hard time believing she was a 2.1 because I talked to her when she left.  She did not slur any speech and her friends said she appeared fine.

Is there any chance she's a fairly advanced alcoholic, with significant physical tolerance to alcohol?

I think OutOfEgypt makes the essential point: looking for reality through her bloodshot eyes is not healthy for you. It's not serving her kids either. You sound like such a nice guy, and I hope you win this battle for your sanity.

[Mutt]

When we got home, my wife brought home this horrible movie that I did not want to see but I sat to be a family and tolerated this horrible horror film.  The whole time she is up and moving about and not sitting with us.  AFter the movie she says she is going to get a shower, so i watch what I want to.  I had not watched what I wanted too in about a week.  1.5 hours later she comes down screaming at me that I do not care etc.  I just say I am unsure what I did and then I get ready for bed on the couch.  She comes out saying I need to movie and she is tired of me hurting her etc.  

so I sit her now baffled.  How am I the villian who does not care and does not value her?  I do not say the things she says, I do not pick her apart.  Honestly I feel its herself picking herself apart and projecting it on me.  I am tired... Very tired.  I do not know how to pay off all this crap she has done, I do not get any time for myself, I am made to feel selfish if i do.  It does not make any sense to me

I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling hurthusband and I recall how difficult it is when there is so much going on and I was depressed. I was emotionally exhausted and so very tired of all of her antics, confused, hurt and frustrated. I believed her projections and thought I was an uncaring husband and villain. I'm not as she described when she was emotionally blackmailing me. I felt like I couldn't turn to anyone and tell them what I was going through. I had not found bpdfamily.

I couldn't see the forest for the trees because the FOG was so thick and it took time for it to lift. Things started to make sense when the FOG slowly lifted. Be gentle and patient with yourself in this process. It takes time.

[KateCat]

Mutt has some compassionate advice.

I want to urge you to make one boundary however: regarding driving. My brother has a permanent brain injury due to a drunk driver who blew less than a 2.1.

If the court system of Texas can help save your family from knowing what that is like, please let the courts do so.