BPD wife went to divorce attorney today

[startrekuser]

She was trying to manipulate me up to the last second.  She was sending me emails such as "tell my why I should stay married to a man who did X?"

I responded with: "I don't want you to go through with seeing an attorney and getting a divorce, but it's your choice to make."

She said "Now you no longer have to be forced to say you love me when clearly you don't and never did."

I responded to that one with: "I am so sorry you are upset.  I am so sorry that you do not feel my love for you."  I just learned that one from another poster.

The attorney actually called me at work while she was there.  She wanted my permission to give him a $2000 retainer.  I said no, of course.  I have no spare cash except what's in my retirement accounts.  I got the feeling he thought she was nuts.  She wants a "post-nup", whatever that means.  She's angling to secure some part of my inheritance from my father when, G-d forbid, he passes.  I'm not sure what she's trying to do.

It's been a difficult day.

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[Inquisitive1]

Sounds like you're doin' the best you can and she is desperately lashing out. Hang in there!

Her asking permission is odd. Does she have money of her own? Lacking control like that would really frustrate/upset anyone. How does a spouse pursue divorce if they don't have money? If she really wants to leave, it might be worth facilitating it rather than obstructing it.

[pallavirajsinghani]

I have seen this scenario play in my brothers life for almost 15 years for his marriage (we have a PDSIL)... .and they are still married.  The scenario goes like this:  "I hate you.  I want a divorce.  However, I want YOU to do all the effort in making the divorce happen... .and this way, I can be a victim and blame you... ."

So a great stance to take is,  "You are a free person.  I love you and respect your decisions.  If you want divorce, I will be happy to grant it to you."

This is the most moral and loving gift you can give to any human being.  You give them their freedom of choice, even if their freedom of choice impinges strongly on your happiness.

At the same time, you are not responsible for putting together the logistics of ushering in the divorce either.  So, while you grant her the freedom, you take the freedom for yourself too.  And your freedom is the freedom from doing what is against your conscience, your beliefs.

So, if she asks your advice about which lawyer to have, which type of post-nup you should have, which type of what this and when what that... .

You have to say sweetly and mean it,  "You are a strong and independent woman.  Whatever decision you take for your life, I will support it."  Support does not mean making it happen.  Support means, accept it.

(The only caveat to this is if her decision are either self-destructive/suicide for example, or destructive of others... .physical harm to animals, humans, cleaning out accounts, etc.).

Suppose an adult person wants to sleep around... .is it ethical to stop them?  Perhaps not, is it ethical to gently dissuade them... .yes.  However is it ethical for the spouse of this individual to allow himself or herself become infected with an STD?  Definitely not.  This is a poor example of the way Justice Sandra O'Connor defined freedom... .'Your freedom to swing your fist stops at my nose."

[startrekuser]

Sounds like you're doin' the best you can and she is desperately lashing out. Hang in there!

Her asking permission is odd. Does she have money of her own? Lacking control like that would really frustrate/upset anyone. How does a spouse pursue divorce if they don't have money? If she really wants to leave, it might be worth facilitating it rather than obstructing it.

She has money in a joint account with her mother.  The only money I have, essentially, is in retirement accounts and she wants access to that and ain't gettin' it.  I make all the income, though, and it all goes to bills.  I will suggest that she spend her own/mother's money.

[startrekuser]

I have seen this scenario play in my brothers life for almost 15 years for his marriage (we have a PDSIL)... .and they are still married.  The scenario goes like this:  "I hate you.  I want a divorce.  However, I want YOU to do all the effort in making the divorce happen... .and this way, I can be a victim and blame you... ."

So a great stance to take is,  "You are a free person.  I love you and respect your decisions.  If you want divorce, I will be happy to grant it to you."

This is the most moral and loving gift you can give to any human being.  You give them their freedom of choice, even if their freedom of choice impinges strongly on your happiness.

At the same time, you are not responsible for putting together the logistics of ushering in the divorce either.  So, while you grant her the freedom, you take the freedom for yourself too.  And your freedom is the freedom from doing what is against your conscience, your beliefs.

So, if she asks your advice about which lawyer to have, which type of post-nup you should have, which type of what this and when what that... .

You have to say sweetly and mean it,  "You are a strong and independent woman.  Whatever decision you take for your life, I will support it."  Support does not mean making it happen.  Support means, accept it.

(The only caveat to this is if her decision are either self-destructive/suicide for example, or destructive of others... .physical harm to animals, humans, cleaning out accounts, etc.).

Suppose an adult person wants to sleep around... .is it ethical to stop them?  Perhaps not, is it ethical to gently dissuade them... .yes.  However is it ethical for the spouse of this individual to allow himself or herself become infected with an STD?  Definitely not.  This is a poor example of the way Justice Sandra O'Connor defined freedom... .'Your freedom to swing your fist stops at my nose."

Haven't you posted this before?  It sounds very familiar.  That's essentially what I told her.  I said this is not what I want, but are you free to divorce me.  So your prediction is right in that she is upset that I wouldn't pay for the retainer even though she says that IM the one that wants a divorce.  WOW!  That's all I have to say.  She thinks I'm mad at her for some reason. I guess that's part of the disorder.  I waver between taking the abuse and not taking it.  When I do, I think that I'll be fine, but then the next day or so, I'm spaced out and confused.  I don't function at my peak.  I can't let the abuse continue.  No more blaming, criticizing, shaming, anger, raging.  How do you handle it when your BPD spouse wants to rehash the same issues again and again?  Is it wrong for me to draw a boundary and just say "no, we've discussed this already" and I don't want to discuss it again?  She then says, she's still upset.  Then what do I say?  I always get stuck in this trap.

[Grey Kitty]

She has money in a joint account with her mother.  ... .  I will suggest that she spend her own/mother's money.

I wouldn't mention that--nothing good will come of it for you.

1. Telling her what to do with her/her mother's money could be seen as being controlling, or come off as invalidating.

2. As pallavirajsinghani said, give her the freedom to make her own choices, but that doesn't mean you have to implement them for her. This sort of choice (taking money from her mother for a divorce atty) is a tough one, and it is completely on her to figure this out on her own.

3. You did your part--refused to pay for it with money you don't have (and a retirement account you don't want to spend that way). Your part stops there.

How do you handle it when your BPD spouse wants to rehash the same issues again and again?  Is it wrong for me to draw a boundary and just say "no, we've discussed this already" and I don't want to discuss it again?  She then says, she's still upset.  Then what do I say?  I always get stuck in this trap.

Refusing to go back down that rabbit hole is a good choice on your part. What I think you want is for her to agree that you shouldn't go back down the rabbit hole. Instead, what you can get her to acknowledge is that she can go down the rabbit hole, but this time she's going to do it alone, 'cuz you aren't coming with her.

We even have a couple workshops that can help on that.

How to stop circular arguments

Arguing - don't engage

[Inquisitive1]

I agree that retirement saving should be off the table for divorce. The first post in the workshop on circular arguments seemed good.

When she says that you're the one who wants a divorce, maybe that reflects her fear that you are going to divorce her. This would be an example of interpreting what she says based on her emotions/fear rather than the literal content of what she says.

Reading your posts, I get the impression that you've started setting boundaries on her and interacting with her in new ways. The approaches here are healthier, but she may not see it that way. She may see a change that threatens her stability. A change that she may interpret as you not loving her. These new behaviors of yours may have her worried that you are rejecting her.