Wife with possible BPD, continued

[MaroonLiquid]

Today, we have communicated quite well after her tantrum yesterday.  I asked her to please help me understand why she took the kids things off of the "family calendar" and she said that the stuff this week I didn't need to be at as they were "fittings".  I told her I understood that, but I am committed to being there for them on these things.  She even agreed to spend time together but when I tried to nail her down to a day this week, she won't respond... .Not letting it bother me, just frustrating.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

also tried to tell her that they could come over this evening if their air conditioner wasn't working to be comfortable and no response to that either.

[workinprogress]

also tried to tell her that they could come over this evening if their air conditioner wasn't working to be comfortable and no response to that either.

You may want to do a little investigating and see who is spending time with her and the kids.  I'm not insinuating another man.  But, there is a chance that it is her mom or sister.  Considering the lukewarm response you have been getting from the kids, there seems to be other forces at work.

[MaroonLiquid]

I thought the same thing and have done plenty of investigating and those are the only people that she is spending time with.  She was always friends with our daughter's best friend's mother but complained about her.  I have access to all of her accounts and we have GPS on each other.  Like you said, she is easily influenced right now and is hanging around people that she can keep close to the vest because she knows they won't contact me for the real truth.  I have to let those lies kind of cave in.

Today was actually a very good day as we texted for quite a while.  It started off with her asking not to post stuff about my family on Facebook because people are starting to ask questions about us having problems.  The truth is, she posted pictures of her new house and forgot that a lot of people didn't know that she had even moved.  Total projection on her part and didn't respond to it. She agreed to spend some time together this week.  I am happy about that and thankful for a good day right now.

[workinprogress]

That's good that you had a good day.

Now, let us know how tomorrow goes.  Be prepared, you know how they are after a good day.  Just be mentally prepared and don't let it affect you if she is cold.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm prepared.  With the way she's been, I can pray for the best. 

[MaroonLiquid]

SO I had a HUGE moment of clarity after I posted last night.  I think I know when my wife began her downward spiral and can trace it back to one event.  It was before our fight (2-4 weeks prior, can't remember), but I believe our fight was the "straw".  The original incident I believe was when our oldest son was caught smoking pot.  After that, she started making decisions on her own.  She made the statement that she is responsible for her children and needs to make her kids a priority.  She said, "They need to go to a vibrant established youth group since our church doesn't have one."  She then made the statement that her kids need to be her priority rather than our marriage because she was always too focused on me and its time now to focus on them.  I reminded her that God said He needs to be the priority, then the spouse, and then the kids.  I realize now this is where the split happened.  It was too much for her to be responsible for past mistakes and marrying their deadbeat dad, so she had to paint me black because their dad isn't around and shirk any responsibility.  Wow.  This helps a bunch.

[MaroonLiquid]

Today, my wife texted me and asked if my kids and I wanted to go with them to a horse show.  I said yes and we have put that together.  That's a start.  Thank you Lord for opening the door!     

[MaroonLiquid]

Should I surprise my wife with some flowers and show up as a surprise to her house this evening?  I haven't seen her in two weeks, even though im seeing her this weekend.  She always loved stuff like that, but don't want to overstep my bounds and come off as an unwelcome gesture... .What do you guys think?

[formflier]

Should I surprise my wife with some flowers and show up as a surprise to her house this evening?  I haven't seen her in two weeks, even though im seeing her this weekend.  She always loved stuff like that, but don't want to overstep my bounds and come off as an unwelcome gesture... .What do you guys think?

What did you do?

Generally... .probably best not to "push".  That''s not an absolute. 

She is obviously thinking about her r/s with you and trying to put it into perspective.  Granted... that may be a disordered perspective... .but she is still trying to sort it out.

Putting "pressure" on her to hurry up and figure it out most likely will not be appreciated.  That being said... .the obvious other issue is that if you don't do anything at all... .you risk being "out of sight... .out of mind". 

So... .what do you think she wants from you?  Not what you hope... .but now that you've looked at this situation... .thought about it... .what do you think she wants?  That may be different that what she says.

[MaroonLiquid]

Good question.  Last Saturday we spent the whole day together as a family and I didn't pressure her or try and be physical with her.  I showed patience and was just trying to be there for her.  We were actually having fun and enjoying each other.  She told me during the day that she found out she had skin cancer again and needed it removed this upcoming week.  I told her if there was anything she needed me to do, I would be there for her.  She is really struggling with it I know.  The end of the night ended badly. We started talking about bills and she couldn't remember a conversation we had before she left town and started yelling at me.  I started holding my ground and she went ballistic.  I finally said something I shouldn't and JADE'd.  I told her if I didn't know any better all she cared about was money.  She yelled at me to get my kids and get the F#CK out and never to come back.  My daughter started crying hysterically.  I told my kids to go to the car and she was completely dysregulated, stone faced and uncaring at that point.  She said if we didn't leave then, she would call the cops.  We left.  Didn't talk to her until she started texting me about bills.  I told her I could pay what I could, but since decisions were made (she made them but didn't say that), that is what happens when you have two households.  I told her I loved her and would be there for her and wanted to work on our marriage.  Back to the silent treatment against me again.  Just continuing to take care of myself and get myself healthy!

[formflier]

Good question.  Last Saturday we spent the whole day together as a family and I didn't pressure her or try and be physical with her.  I showed patience and was just trying to be there for her.  We were actually having fun and enjoying each other.  She told me during the day that she found out she had skin cancer again and needed it removed this upcoming week.  I told her if there was anything she needed me to do, I would be there for her.  She is really struggling with it I know.  The end of the night ended badly. We started talking about bills and she couldn't remember a conversation we had before she left town and started yelling at me.  I started holding my ground and she went ballistic.  I finally said something I shouldn't and JADE'd.  I told her if I didn't know any better all she cared about was money.  She yelled at me to get my kids and get the F#CK out and never to come back.  My daughter started crying hysterically.  I told my kids to go to the car and she was completely dysregulated, stone faced and uncaring at that point.  She said if we didn't leave then, she would call the cops.  We left.  Didn't talk to her until she started texting me about bills.  I told her I could pay what I could, but since decisions were made (she made them but didn't say that), that is what happens when you have two households.  I told her I loved her and would be there for her and wanted to work on our marriage.  Back to the silent treatment against me again.  Just continuing to take care of myself and get myself healthy!

So what do you think you should have done differently with the conversation that went badly?

Think about the lessons you have read and information you have learned from this site.

Hang in there... .I'm sure that was a frustrating conversation.

[MaroonLiquid]

I said that if she kept yelling at me that I would leave, but stayed and finally lost it.  What I should have said was let's talk about this when we are calm and do something else.

[formflier]

I said that if she kept yelling at me that I would leave, but stayed and finally lost it.  What I should have said was let's talk about this when we are calm and do something else.

Or?

Hint... you are getting close...  

[MaroonLiquid]

Take a time out? 

[formflier]

Take a time out? 

Yes... I think that would be appropriate.  The theory is that when "the dance" gets inappropriate... you stop dancing.

You give it a time limit... ."I'll be back in 10 minutes" to try to not trigger abandonment fears. 

But... .don't do the dance... .don't respond to their provocations

[KateCat]

By following formflier's excellent advice, you should be able reduce or even eliminate the occurrence of this:

My daughter started crying hysterically.

And that will feel good immediately.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm in a rock and a hard place.  I want to text her kids to tell them to have a great day at school tomorrow, but she told me to text her and ask "permission" before I text them.  I shouldn't have to.  This is a play for control on her part.  What should I do?

[formflier]

I'm in a rock and a hard place.  I want to text her kids to tell them to have a great day at school tomorrow, but she told me to text her and ask "permission" before I text them.  I shouldn't have to.  This is a play for control on her part.  What should I do?

Respect her boundaries... .that will hopefully "inspire" her to start respecting yours. 

I would look at it less as a control tactic... .than as another chance to "throw down the gauntlet"... .in other words... .a chance to fight or "do the dance". 

DO NOT DO THE BPD DANCE anymore! 

I would put that under the "stop the bleeding" part.  Once that is over... .then hopefully repair work can begin.

Hang in there... .!  

[MaroonLiquid]

So I should ask then?  Usually in the past when I've asked, she won't respond... .Just clarifying... .

Update:  So I asked her and as usual, no response... .

[waverider]

So I should ask then?  Usually in the past when I've asked, she won't respond... .Just clarifying... .

Update:  So I asked her and as usual, no response... .

Problem that is bothering you here is that you feel like you are being controlled by omission. This is because your default is pending on her action. You then stall in frustration. Turn it the other way around where your default is to proceed and it will take her action to prevent it.

eg "I am going to do XYZ, get back to me if that causes an issue and i will hold off"

It shows consideration of her view, it puts the onus on her to actively be the dampener if that is what she wishes, rather than allowing her to do it in a passive aggressive way.

You are not left hanging in frustration.

[MaroonLiquid]

That helps a lot.  Thank you.  I will start doing that from now on.  And you are right.  That is what was bothering me.  What is with the omission thing?  Help me out with that one.  Does she not realize she is punishing the kids that she claims she "loves so much"?

[MaroonLiquid]

One more thing, I have shut off my facebook account (last night).  Last weekend after the blow up, she removed me from her friends list, but still has all of our family photos on her facebook.  I know she checks up on me this way, and I did as well, but realized it is unhealthy.  We also have a GPS tracking app that we were all on and I deleted that off from my phone too.  I know she sees where I am with this also.  I didn't tell her I did this.  Last time, it ticked her off that I didn't tell her I cut off my facebook and she went ballistic, removed me from her friends list, and changed her marital status to "Ask" without it posting as an update.   She then asked for me to stop posting things about "my family" as people were starting to ask her questions about us having problems.  I thought to my self, "Really, are you serious?", but I didn't.  I don't want to trigger her abandonment fears, but at the same time, she made these choices of living separately and I feel she shouldn't have the same rights until we are back together and working on the marriage.  Right now, everything is her way.  What do y'all think? 

[formflier]

So I should ask then?  Usually in the past when I've asked, she won't respond... .Just clarifying... .

Update:  So I asked her and as usual, no response... .

Nah... .wouldn't ask... .or wouldn't ask anymore.  Lessen the amount of contact... .and make sure... .to the max of your ability... .that the contact you do have is positive.

Do the best you can... with the time you get with her.

[formflier]

So I should ask then?  Usually in the past when I've asked, she won't respond... .Just clarifying... .

Update:  So I asked her and as usual, no response... .

Nah... .wouldn't ask... .or wouldn't ask anymore.  Lessen the amount of contact... .and make sure... .to the max of your ability... .that the contact you do have is positive.

Do the best you can... with the time you get with her.

I jumped in an answered without reading all the other threads. 

I love waveriders approach.  In the military we call it command by negation.  I announce what I'm doing... .and unless the one above me says no... .it happens. 

My thought was that maybe you are trying to initiate too much contact.  No way to really know that. 

My recommendation is to try waveriders approach... .and make sure to not "do the dance" if she gets mad.

[MaroonLiquid]

As of right now, there is NO contact, NONE from her side.  I cant get her to respond to anything (except an email about bills) since last Saturday when she yelled at me and my children and told us to get out of her house and made my daughter cry.  The silent treatment ticks me off, makes me feel bad about myself, and it isn't right.  I miss her and the kids terribly.  It hurts.  This has been going on 8 weeks except for our day together last weekend.  I'm just trying to deal with this the best way I know how and according to this site.  

[formflier]

As of right now, there is NO contact, NONE from her side.  I cant get her to respond to anything (except an email about bills) since last Saturday when she yelled at me and my children and told us to get out of her house and made my daughter cry.  The silent treatment ticks me off, makes me feel bad about myself, and it isn't right.  I miss her and the kids terribly.  It hurts.  This has been going on 8 weeks except for our day together last weekend.  I'm just trying to deal with this the best way I know how and according to this site.  

What do the lessons on this site say about frequency of reaching out to a person that is not responding back?

[MaroonLiquid]

I can't find that particular info, but I know it says to let them be and work on yourself and eventually they will get through it.

[formflier]

I can't find that particular info, but I know it says to let them be and work on yourself and eventually they will get through it.

How does that figure into your plan? 

[MaroonLiquid]

Well, I am seeing a counselor to deal with my issues, being the best father I can be to my three biological kids, working out, enjoying the peace I have at my apartment, and resting.  It's nice to not have to be somewhere if I don't want to as I have never lived alone before.  I would rather live with my family, but I am leaning on God right now to grow me more spiritually and emotionally through this process and trusting Him to work on her.  I know with her schedule, she couldn't have much peace.  She is always doing too much on purpose, almost like an escape.  I know its for validation reasons, as I was the same way, but the escape from dealing with reality is big also I believe.  She also looks for validation through the kids and getting them involved in everything they can be in, even at the expense of relationships.  But now, she has her biological three all to do herself.  I'm not gloating, or relishing in the fact that she has it all to do herself, but we were stretched to the max when it was both of us working, my coaching, kids in advanced choirs, six kids in four different schools with functions seemingly all the time (just her three with their stuff was almost full time with pickups/dropoffs), and it came at the expense of us.  I completely realize that now.  I am all for having kids in extracurriculars, but there was hardly a balance.  She probably won't handle it well for long.  I hate the fact that her kids are separated from me and we have only seen each other once in a month, but I know God will change that.