Pick fight/React/Need Space/Shunned/Begin to stabalize/Pull in (repeat)

[anxiety5]

I have little doubt that I have codependency issues in relationships. The difference with me is that I'm not a typical codependent. I'm very extroverted, assertive and if someone is manipulating me or picks an irrational fight and rages, I will rage right back. I'm not a pushover. Where my issue rests is in attachment issues. I have such a hard time letting go. I never quit. Where many BPDs are seen as "sucking the life" out of their partner, I never seem to lose my will to keep trying. This is nothing to be celebrated because I allow my boundaries (fidelity) to be breached. I don't EVER look the other way. And I'm (rightfully) confrontational and will stick up for myself. These situations always involve the person doing the cheating to declare that they are sorry, etc. And that is my weakness. I seem to always believe that when someone says such things, that there may be a way to move on and forgive.

That being said, We kept getting into this pattern wherein she is ALWAYS stressed about work. I know her job may be tough but I often get a sense that her "stress episodes" are neurotic and embellished to at least some degree. These "stress"events often involve a culmination. An apex, so to speak wherein we have plans of some sort and she starts to act distant at some point that day before we actually hang out. When I do see her, for instance the last fight I walked into her house. She is usually stressed and won't make eye contact with me as she marches around doing mundane tasks in the kitchen. She will begin her belittlement when I ask what's the matter. "You don't know. You have no clue what my days are like." I usually either disengage or this last time made the mistake of being so fed up that I fought back about how she was treating me poorly. I hate this type of conflict. She claims she does too but looking at it now I feel like it's done to get control. If I'm walking on egg shells she can dictate the events that happen next without any push back whatsoever as I seek whatever path is the least resistance to altering the mood. When we do fight, if I bite on her stress induced hate bait, things usually turn out that she will "retreat" in our relationship. 3 days or so will pass. We will text but it's me that initiates as I inevitably feel guilty and want to just make up. It's never easy though. She will never just say yes and move on. It's always one word answers, and involves a long struggle to get back to where we were before the unnecessary event happened in the first place. The last few times this has happened I end up pulling away. Being shunned is unacceptable for me. Especially when it's me trying to engage in communication despite the fight not being started by me. When I start pulling away, she will pull me back in. Things stabilize for a week or 10 days and then this cycle repeats.

Anyone else have this happen? I get a sense that this is what they mean by eventually seeing behind the mask. This once amazing person, gorgeous, smart, accomplished and fun is in reality a fragmented, chaotic, emotional, impulsive, control freak.

Can anyone shed some light behind the psychology of why she does this? What are the triggers of such a cycle? Is it REALLY stress? or is that a common excuse? It may simply be the push/pull thing at play but am I right assuming what I'm describing is the guts of this disease? The hallmarks? The true nature of what it's all about? Agitation, Conflict, Push away, Abandonment fear, Pull back in, Idealized, Intimate, Fear... .Start at agitation and repeat cycle... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Are you co dependent in the sense that you cant cope with not being in control of a situation and her refusal to let you control her means you cant detach from the conflict?

It is your need to "fix' that is holding you in the RS?

Do you think your way of handling conflict is making it better or worse?

[anxiety5]

I label myself codependent but I have never been clinically diagnosed as such. Let me explain. I'm a very easy going person. I don't really have any desire to control. I was the last born in a family of boys so trust me when I say I'm very used to not getting "my" way. And that's perfectly fine. My codependent symptoms may be something else but here is what I'm referring to when I label myself that.

I believe my flaws are in valuing myself through others. I'm the fixer, the helper, the person who will put someone else first to a fault. I will give and give and give. I've noticed though that it's not really the way I want things to be because at some point when it never is reciprocated I do, predictably become a little resentful at times. For example I never ask much of anyone so if I really need someone at a given time, I get a little upset when I realize I put someone else first who doesn't return it when I need them. I also have very grounded and decent morals and values. I was raised by parents still married and happy. Despite this, I've been cheated on in my last two relationships and despite that I can't seem to walk away from them. I allow my boundaries to be crossed in that way. I'm by no means a push over, I'm very assertive and will stick up for myself, I'm not a doormat. However, when it comes to a point where I should clearly get out because this person is not respecting me, I end up staying. In these moments, I have this fear of losing them that is so great, I want them to stay. This in turn initiates the fixer again, because I spend the balance of the relationship trying to get things back to where they were in the beginning, naively viewing the relationship as a story wherein we are in the climax and suspense and I need to just be forgiving, try harder and not quit in order to reach a happy conclusion. The patterns in the women I have dated (the last two) are what I now know to be BPD. I seem to be a beacon to these people (because my lack of boundaries) wherein I see someone in distress, the beautiful damsel and will go out of my way to try and help her which normal people would not do unless they knew them very well. I guess this is like a flame to a moth because they seem to leach on to me at this point and so we begin our dance. I'm an educated person, have a good job, I'm healthy and in shape and would not describe myself as a bad looking guy, but I guess for whatever reason at my core are feelings of low self esteem or somehow inadequate. It's not that I seek to recreate someone who views me as I view myself. I actually want to be loved like anyone does, but I guess maybe when they end up hurting me in some way that is where the complex above kicks in and in my moment of fear of losing what we have built, I get this overwhelming sense that I won't find someone again like them and it keeps me hanging on. I'm working on these things, I'm building my own sense of self worth, trying to be nicer to myself and to learn to love myself I guess (sounds weird but you know what I mean) Basically just trying to have more self respect. To put my morals and values into actions not words. It's been a big help to do a simple exercise I found here actually, to identify your core values. What core values are, etc. It's a very good way to help find who "you are" In doing so, I have identified what values I really need in a partner, and it also put into perspective the way I may tend to push some of those aside or ignore red flags in the "dating" phase. You know, that time where everything seems to go perfectly each and every time you hang out. I'm learning that I need to not get so enmeshed in these moments. That it's the feelings of love taking over and what I want someone to be vs who they really are. I need to just be me so to speak and if I protect my core values and what they mean to me, allow these to form rock hard boundaries, in theory, I should never be a victim of this again because I will be able to see the clouds before being caught in the actual storm.

I think in some ways the way I'am is good. I'm not a quitter. I try and always see the best. I love hard, and I devote myself to the person I date. I'm loyal, not a cheater and I try to be the very best person I can be in a relationship. Maybe it's bad luck, maybe it's the things mentioned above, but I by no means "like" this or feel any satisfaction from any of the undoings of these relationships. I just want someone to see these loyal to a fault characteristics in me and maybe appreciate them rather than exploit them. That's all.

[formflier]

 

I would caution anyone that has not been officially diagnosed as "co-dependent"... .to not use that label very much on themselves.

I started down that road (thinking I was co-dependent)... .and turns out I'm more of a fixer/rescuer... .not really "co".

Backed up by Psychologists and such... .so I'm pretty solid on what I am... and I'm not.

Most of "us" (nons) that are wrapped up in toxic r/s with pwBPD have issues to tend to.  I certainly did... .and still do.  But... .piling on extra stuff that is not really there... .is not helpful.  Saps our energy from other things that we really should be spending our focus on.

Not criticizing anyone here... .self reflection is outstanding... .just get the results of that self reflection professionally checked out

[anxiety5]

I appreciate your comments and to a good extent you are correct, there is no official diagnosis. The fixer/rescuer in my opinion is every bit as troublesome as codependency. I don't know about you but if I honestly think to myself it's easy to recognize the relationships I've enmeshed myself inside all seem to be the one's where the other person is in need of constant "rescue" to some extent. Likewise, if honest with myself, I find that the positive feedback of selflessness in doing something for someone is something that I very much desire. These are huge problems. I also have identified where it came from. My father. He is not at fault, so to speak. He is the best man I've ever met. Completely dedicated and selfless to his family. I can't see anywhere else I would have developed it. It's quite clear, I gain a sense of my worth through the response from someone else to my selfless actions. I have learned quite positively that love is selfless, that it is expressed by never considering your own wants and needs and to devote yourself and your attentions entirely to the person you are dating. My father had no real hobbies, passions or loves. He is a very multi-faceted and talented person so I think a more accurate description would be that he suppressed them for so long they disappeared. He never complained. He never asked for anything in return. I felt guilty all the time because he often wouldn't even accept my help, so whatever was being done made me feel unworthy of receiving it and his lack of wanting anything in return meant it was impossible for reciprocity. Again, I refuse to criticize this man. He is a decent, honest, hard working man who did everything for his family through and through, I think I simply learned to associate his actions with the way things are supposed to be. My dad is a very strong guy, perhaps the real chasm exists in the fact that I know that I have some engrained self esteem issues. I identify them with childhood where I moved quite frequently very early on in school and always felt like it was impossible to meet friends. Just as I started to fit in and gain traction we were moving again. It was very defeating. The attachment issues I identify with being with my mom every single day my first 5 years and then having one of my earliest memories when (knowing I was going to throw a fit) she just left me at school my first day. I remember being mortified. Surrounded by strangers. How did I know at 4 or 5 that every day wasn't going to be like the days before? In my early years I hated the morning and getting up for school. I just wanted to stay home. As I grew up I overcame much of this. I'm hardly an introvert, always had a lot of friends in high school and college and have no social awkwardness whatsoever. I even would say I'm pretty darn good at the pursuit phase of dating. It's not as if opportunities were never there so I latch onto someone. Where all of this seems to culminate into a perfect storm is in long term relationships. It is in that setting where the attachment occurs. It is in this setting where the selfless fixer, giver is activated. It is here where I feel more comfortable giving and unworthy or receiving despite wanting and needing reciprocity. It is here where the desire to fix or rescue attracts the BPD types. It is here that my self esteem at my core allows my boundaries to be crossed without showing more self respect by getting out. 

I know it's not clinical but I think relationship wise, the above mantra would qualify as a form of co-dependency. If I'm wrong I apologize for being presumptuous. I concluded such when the BPD relationships started to become a twilight zone of repetition no matter of my awareness to try and avoid it. It's like I'm the perfect storm baggage to attract these types like a lighthouse, and my baggage is light enough where I have plenty of strength to carry their load as well.

[drummerboy]

I've never heard a mental health progressional use or like the term co-dependent and I don't think its even listed in the DSM. It's a layman's term AFAIK.

I think most people in this community probably have co-dependency issues. A person that wasn't co-dependent would not likely go full on into a relationship with a BPD like we did and they wouldn't be hanging around a place like this looking for answers, they'd just be getting on with life. It is my view that even though BPD's usually treat us cruelly, we have to take some of the responsibility for being the sort of person that takes the BPD bait so easily. Regardless of the BPD's actions, you cannot blame them for us having major problems separating from this relationship. We have to take ownership of that.

I would caution anyone that has not been officially diagnosed as "co-dependent"... .to not use that label very much on themselves.

I started down that road (thinking I was co-dependent)... .and turns out I'm more of a fixer/rescuer... .not really "co".

Backed up by Psychologists and such... .so I'm pretty solid on what I am... and I'm not.

Most of "us" (nons) that are wrapped up in toxic r/s with pwBPD have issues to tend to.  I certainly did... .and still do.  But... .piling on extra stuff that is not really there... .is not helpful.  Saps our energy from other things that we really should be spending our focus on.

Not criticizing anyone here... .self reflection is outstanding... .just get the results of that self reflection professionally checked out

[formflier]

Interesting... .anyone out there ever been treated for co-dependency?

[waverider]

Interesting... .anyone out there ever been treated for co-dependency?

There are support groups for this aspect

Co-Dependents Anonymous

A few of the members here have attended such groups and any insights gained from these resources could be helpful.

I think most of us are codependent to one degree or other, it is a case of recognizing those aspects and making sure they are not having a negative impact on our dealings with others.

[MissyM]

I have been diagnosed as codependent with PTSD.  Codependency is just a maladaptive coping mechanism, care taking to an unhealthy degree.  I am also someone that speaks up for myself but I do more than my share in relationships. I throw a fit and fight but then back down.  I am learning how to set boundaries in a loving, healthy way.  I have done CODA, COSA and Al-anon (I have found the best help in Alanon).  I have also done a lot of therapy.  I don't know where the idea that this isn't used by therapists and psychologists, as I have been told by both that I have codependent behavior.  I have tolerated unacceptable treatment in a relationship because of this.