"Hurt people" hurt people"

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was reading some old posts on the board and this one really helped me to get better and deeper understanding (again & again) of the BP-disorder.  Whenever i feel pain, anger or confusion come up, reading this helps me to intellectualize (once more) what happened.

HE WRITES: Criteria #1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. - "basically this means if your buddy says he cannot come over because he is busy -you take it as *he does not like you anymore* so you do what it takes to ensure yourself your thought is not true. Some people will cause a commotion that will ensure that they get people's attention, even if it is negative attention. It satisfies the thought that you are not alone which is more important than the consequences you will have to deal with for causing the commotion. Personally, this area really shows up when someone is late or cancels at the last minute and it takes a lot of work to remember sometimes things happens and it is not the person abandoning me." END QUOTE

www.untreatableonline.com/2009/10/highs-and-lows-of-BPD.html

Right there is the Low self- or the Masochist- creating a punishment. The behavior gets confronted by the Non (who doesn't really know what happened to cause it) and this becomes negative attention (self-serving) which then becomes a "split" -mostly a rage against the perception of the confused partner as sadistic persecutor.

This makes the attached partner "flounder" as you said, and try to reason with wrong perceptions. This causes a BPD switch of masochist to sadist- so that now You are the one unsure, unstable and out of control. This replicates the original parental relationship that imprinted on the brain and cause emotions to be activated in frustrated Talionic Impulse... .

HE WRITES: Criteria #8. inappropriate, intense response or difficulty controlling anger - "BPD is created initially to protect yourself from the world that you are in so everything comes down to safety.  When I feel someone is putting my self image at risk I attack for the most part as this is the basis of the disorder, I need to send a message that this will not be tolerated and make sure the person fully understands this or in some cases makes sure they do not come back.   It takes a lot of work to maintain a rocky self image and when someone seems to attack it- you take it very personally. The last person you want to get into a confrontation with is someone with BPD as our lives have been one confrontation after another so we tend to be very good at it and we don't know how to lose.   A simple comment along the lines of "You should have done this instead of that" may seem innocent to someone without BPD but when this disorder is a part of your life- that comment just said that you are not very smart and not very aware of the situation so it attacks the core beliefs that we had created in our self image – (especially when the person is untreated and has not acknowledged the different stages of personality and perception. Think of something you have total belief in and how would you react if someone attacked it. It’s the same thing." END QUOTE

www.untreatableonline.com/2009/10/highs-and-lows-of-BPD.html

So even a discussion about the way things are perceived or handled can lead to a "confrontational stance" and personal attack against you for even trying to understand them.  The masochist in them feels you're out to get them- so they'd better do you one better- which makes their high self sadistic. Sort of an emergency mentality of shoot first. There isn't a way for their Brain to calm themselves and think in grey, middle ground, rather than black or white, especially when they get emotionally charged. They see either you as a sadist or a masochist and sadist is the one who gets to be in charge and find some emotional release.

"The last person you want to get into a confrontation with is someone with BPD as our lives have been one confrontation after another so we tend to be very good at it and we don't know how to lose."

And The sad part is that you'll never be considered a nice person after that- only a smoking gun. And they are wary around smoking guns. Better to just cut you off completely and let the dance begin again with another person who may not confront them.

Very sad.

[2014]

I was reading some old posts on the board and this one really helped me to get better and deeper understanding (again & again) of the BP-disorder.  Whenever i feel pain, anger or confusion come up, reading this helps me to intellectualize (once more) what happened.

HE WRITES: Criteria #1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. - "basically this means if your buddy says he cannot come over because he is busy -you take it as *he does not like you anymore* so you do what it takes to ensure yourself your thought is not true. Some people will cause a commotion that will ensure that they get people's attention, even if it is negative attention. It satisfies the thought that you are not alone which is more important than the consequences you will have to deal with for causing the commotion. Personally, this area really shows up when someone is late or cancels at the last minute and it takes a lot of work to remember sometimes things happens and it is not the person abandoning me." END QUOTE

www.untreatableonline.com/2009/10/highs-and-lows-of-BPD.html

Right there is the Low self- or the Masochist- creating a punishment. The behavior gets confronted by the Non (who doesn't really know what happened to cause it) and this becomes negative attention (self-serving) which then becomes a "split" -mostly a rage against the perception of the confused partner as sadistic persecutor.

This makes the attached partner "flounder" as you said, and try to reason with wrong perceptions. This causes a BPD switch of masochist to sadist- so that now You are the one unsure, unstable and out of control. This replicates the original parental relationship that imprinted on the brain and cause emotions to be activated in frustrated Talionic Impulse... .

HE WRITES: Criteria #8. inappropriate, intense response or difficulty controlling anger - "BPD is created initially to protect yourself from the world that you are in so everything comes down to safety.  When I feel someone is putting my self image at risk I attack for the most part as this is the basis of the disorder, I need to send a message that this will not be tolerated and make sure the person fully understands this or in some cases makes sure they do not come back.   It takes a lot of work to maintain a rocky self image and when someone seems to attack it- you take it very personally. The last person you want to get into a confrontation with is someone with BPD as our lives have been one confrontation after another so we tend to be very good at it and we don't know how to lose.   A simple comment along the lines of "You should have done this instead of that" may seem innocent to someone without BPD but when this disorder is a part of your life- that comment just said that you are not very smart and not very aware of the situation so it attacks the core beliefs that we had created in our self image – (especially when the person is untreated and has not acknowledged the different stages of personality and perception. Think of something you have total belief in and how would you react if someone attacked it. It’s the same thing." END QUOTE

www.untreatableonline.com/2009/10/highs-and-lows-of-BPD.html

So even a discussion about the way things are perceived or handled can lead to a "confrontational stance" and personal attack against you for even trying to understand them.  The masochist in them feels you're out to get them- so they'd better do you one better- which makes their high self sadistic. Sort of an emergency mentality of shoot first. There isn't a way for their Brain to calm themselves and think in grey, middle ground, rather than black or white, especially when they get emotionally charged. They see either you as a sadist or a masochist and sadist is the one who gets to be in charge and find some emotional release.

"The last person you want to get into a confrontation with is someone with BPD as our lives have been one confrontation after another so we tend to be very good at it and we don't know how to lose."

And The sad part is that you'll never be considered a nice person after that- only a smoking gun. And they are wary around smoking guns. Better to just cut you off completely and let the dance begin again with another person who may not confront them.

Very sad.

[letmeout]

Very interesting.

[Mutt]

I was reading some old posts on the board and this one really helped me to get better and deeper understanding (again & again) of the BP-disorder.  Whenever i feel pain, anger or confusion come up, reading this helps me to intellectualize (once more) what happened.

I agree 2014. Reading about the disorder helps you to understand what you where really going through. The truth. My relationship was very confusing and painful because I didn't know what I was dealing with at the time. I didn't understand that I had become a trigger for her. I felt so much frustration and pain when I was trying to make things better in the r/s, where failing. I didn't know that I was dealing with a mental illness at the time. She fears abandonment - real or perceived. She was undiagnosed and untreated and she has her own "core trauma of abandonment" to work on. There are many complex defense mechanisms that protect the self.

It's a misunderstood and complex disorder. Read as much as you can. Share your experiences with members and work through your pain and suffering.

[Hopeless777]

I don't even know what to say anymore... .the emotional pain is so intense. I feel lost in the sea, drowning without any possibility of help. I was always there for her in all her decades of afflictions. Now that I need help, I feel alone and abandoned. God, this pain has to end someday.

[Mutt]

I'm sorry Hopeless777 for the horrible pain that your going through   It's tough. Our members suffered terrible pain as well - including myself.

Perhaps we can explore this pain in a new thread? You articulated what you're feeling well. It gets better. Likely not something you want to hear right now due to emotions, but it really does. Sharing really helps.

[Conundrum]

I don't even know what to say anymore... .the emotional pain is so intense. I feel lost in the sea, drowning without any possibility of help. I was always there for her in all her decades of afflictions. Now that I need help, I feel alone and abandoned. God, this pain has to end someday.

I've lost a marriage in this life and also a BPD SO in the traditional sense. What I say to myself is that these are experiences. Kaleidoscope experiences, which live within me. The joy, pain, delight and sorrow. I take it with me. I carry it around. They're mine. Sometimes I gift-wrap them with a bow, and other times I tear that very same paper into shreds. But mostly, I try to clearly perceive. And when I do, I know that my purpose in this life is not dependent upon the length of time I was with another, or whether I am with them now. I am me. Distinct. With purpose. The sun rises every day. Am I better than it? I rise too. And greet a brand new day.     

[AG]

I don't even know what to say anymore... .the emotional pain is so intense. I feel lost in the sea, drowning without any possibility of help. I was always there for her in all her decades of afflictions. Now that I need help, I feel alone and abandoned. God, this pain has to end someday.

I feel exactly the same way. Literally exactly.

[Mutt]

I don't even know what to say anymore... .the emotional pain is so intense. I feel lost in the sea, drowning without any possibility of help. I was always there for her in all her decades of afflictions. Now that I need help, I feel alone and abandoned. God, this pain has to end someday.

I feel exactly the same way. Literally exactly.

I'm sorry you feel the same way AG. It's tough . It does get better. It was the last thing I wanted to hear from people when I was in a state of trauma. I felt so invalidated. You're welcome to start a new thread too and explore the pain and suffering. I'll help with what I can.

Are you in T?

[2014]

I don't even know what to say anymore... .the emotional pain is so intense. I feel lost in the sea, drowning without any possibility of help. I was always there for her in all her decades of afflictions. Now that I need help, I feel alone and abandoned. God, this pain has to end someday.

So sorry, please do share with us. I promise you, as i've been there (and still am sometimes), that time is your friend. Also, this board is god send, the support is amazing, stay around, read a lot, you are not alone.

AG, please do share.