Did your BPD towards the end make you think you were the crazy one?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all. I am having a very difficult morning. Last night, after a discussion that lead to an argument, that lead to me asking "what do you want" (i.e. you are not happy) and her saying " I don't want this", I called her bluff so to speak. I treated her words literally and then began a discussion on the particulars of her leaving, in a calm and adult way. That also lead to a bit of verbal devaluation towards me, typical. Then she flipped it around saying I had asked her to leave, that I wanted her to leave, that I planned it all out ( ok, fair enough, I have been thinking of the particulars for a long time just in case).

We both went to sleep in separate beds, per usual. As I fell asleep I was determined to sleep well and be strong no matter what.

When I awoke this morning I thought that maybe I would test her resolve about leaving. I have read so much on this site about recycle attempts. Mine has never done that to me but this is the first time that it seems like it is really over. So, I went into her bedroom. She was not really fully awake but she knew I had come in. I gently asked her if she was awake. I asked her if I could cuddle with her. I would usually do that after arguments in the past to "test the waters". She was sleeping in a twin bed so she said it was too small as it is. I took that as a sign that communication at least is ok. So I asked her if she wanted to take a walk this morning and clear out some of the cobwebs. She immediately fired up. Told me "you don't remember what you said last night? WHAT ARE YOU... .schizophrenic? You told me a lot of things to confirm for me that this relationship is over... .". BLA BLA BLA. It then went into its usual direction of twisting my words around. I was told to get out of her room and I left with a nice black coat of paint.

So my goal was to see if she had reconsidered anything about last night. I guess she hasn't or maybe I am just in for more punishment. I guess I will just maintain status quo and accept that she wants to leave until I am told otherwise. I am so sick of the lack of communication, empathy and intimacy that I am despondent so, yes, I do want it to be over. Yet I don't love her so much and just want the old her back. I don't want to lose her... .that part of her that told me that I was everything to her.

After dealing with all her projection, stonewalling, gaslighting I sometimes wonder if she is right! Luckily I have a good T and some very close friends who validate that I am not mentally ill. What I am is extremely fragile. I know in my mind that this relationship has been one sided and toxic. I know that I am depressed and not functioning at my best. I also know that the 5 days I spent away from her last week gave me clarity, strength and a renewed optimism no matter what happens. I guess I just didn't expect last night, after I just got home. barely two hours into being home, that we would have another argument that would be the end of the relationship.

[michel71]

Hi all. I am having a very difficult morning. Last night, after a discussion that lead to an argument, that lead to me asking "what do you want" (i.e. you are not happy) and her saying " I don't want this", I called her bluff so to speak. I treated her words literally and then began a discussion on the particulars of her leaving, in a calm and adult way. That also lead to a bit of verbal devaluation towards me, typical. Then she flipped it around saying I had asked her to leave, that I wanted her to leave, that I planned it all out ( ok, fair enough, I have been thinking of the particulars for a long time just in case).

We both went to sleep in separate beds, per usual. As I fell asleep I was determined to sleep well and be strong no matter what.

When I awoke this morning I thought that maybe I would test her resolve about leaving. I have read so much on this site about recycle attempts. Mine has never done that to me but this is the first time that it seems like it is really over. So, I went into her bedroom. She was not really fully awake but she knew I had come in. I gently asked her if she was awake. I asked her if I could cuddle with her. I would usually do that after arguments in the past to "test the waters". She was sleeping in a twin bed so she said it was too small as it is. I took that as a sign that communication at least is ok. So I asked her if she wanted to take a walk this morning and clear out some of the cobwebs. She immediately fired up. Told me "you don't remember what you said last night? WHAT ARE YOU... .schizophrenic? You told me a lot of things to confirm for me that this relationship is over... .". BLA BLA BLA. It then went into its usual direction of twisting my words around. I was told to get out of her room and I left with a nice black coat of paint.

So my goal was to see if she had reconsidered anything about last night. I guess she hasn't or maybe I am just in for more punishment. I guess I will just maintain status quo and accept that she wants to leave until I am told otherwise. I am so sick of the lack of communication, empathy and intimacy that I am despondent so, yes, I do want it to be over. Yet I don't love her so much and just want the old her back. I don't want to lose her... .that part of her that told me that I was everything to her.

After dealing with all her projection, stonewalling, gaslighting I sometimes wonder if she is right! Luckily I have a good T and some very close friends who validate that I am not mentally ill. What I am is extremely fragile. I know in my mind that this relationship has been one sided and toxic. I know that I am depressed and not functioning at my best. I also know that the 5 days I spent away from her last week gave me clarity, strength and a renewed optimism no matter what happens. I guess I just didn't expect last night, after I just got home. barely two hours into being home, that we would have another argument that would be the end of the relationship.

[freedom33]

michel71 I have been there. I was questioning my sanity for 2-3 months. I thought I was BPD and all the other disorders from the book. She was trying to make me believe that. I asked my T what he thought - he said no way. It is projective identification. It sounds like you have been worn down over time, gaslighted, manipulated - an easy prey for owning her stuff.

[camuse]

Short answer: yes.

It's incredible how skilled they are in their manipulation. I was a confident, self-assured person before this. She targeted my insecurities with the accuracy and timing of a scud missile.

[fromheeltoheal]

Sounds like she's triggered in a big way, and you're enmeshed with her, so you're triggered too.  She will stay as long as she feels there's an attachment in place, regardless of how drama-filled and dysfunctional it gets, but if she feels it slipping, she'll search for another one.

So it's up to you.  You mention you have a therapist and close friends, and time away from her gave you optimism.  These relationships are one sided, as you mention, because a borderline has extreme needs, so you will have to take care of yourself.  When we're triggered we tend to focus on the good times and try to get back there, and something that helps is to make a list of all the bad, unacceptable ones, and focus on those, your way of 'painting her black' so you can begin to detach.  And then you need an escape plan, a clean break with support.  Your own emotions will be your biggest hurdle, so you need to plan extra hard and steel yourself for it; the hardest part is at the beginning.

One man's hallucination; apply as needed.

[myself]

She tried. That's what scapegoats are for.

But it was her distorted view of things that showed that it was her.

And helped me see for sure it wasn't me.

[willtimeheal]

You're not crazy. I have been there and I am still there too. I question my own sanity and thought process daily. My friends and therapist tell me I am the most balanced person they have ever met. But yet inside I feel like my mind is scattered in different directions and I am barely keeping my head above water.

Like you I miss my girl... .the one I fell in love with. The one that I planned my future with. One minute anything seemed possible then all of a.sudden she is saying "I don't want this."  I have heard that many many times as well. I feel your pain. I don't want to lose my girl either... .but I am learning the disorder always wins. Hang in there.

[ajr5679]

yes I sure did.even went to the mental ward.  I was also called schizophrenic. and I believe her. I had to call my friends to asked them if I was.  I could of wrote this myself. mine turn very npd. so becareful

[StayOrLeave15]

Answer: YES, YES, YES, and YES

Michel, I am just now coming out of the FOG and back from Oz and seeing things clearly.  For simplicity I'll put the behaviors in a list:

1. Demanding I text her every time I left my home to let her know what I was doing

2. Sending at times up to 30 text messages if I didn't respond to her immediately

3. After she calmed down from dysregulation, I would try and calmly discuss the issue and she would get very frustrated and tell me "You're always bringing things back up" and "You can't let things go".

4. Demanding I "make her look good to my friends" after I had told her that I mentioned to some of them we had been having some arguments

5. Making me feel crazy that I would ever talk to any other female, even friends that go back to childhood

6. Make lists of everything I did wrong and that I had to change about myself and would not let me express any of my concerns about the relationship to her

I could go on and on.  I was just out with friends last night and I showed them some screenshots of some particularly extreme text conversations.  They actually burst out laughing and said "Is this for real? This is a joke right?"  I smiled and told them unfortunately it's not a joke and then told them, "Sometimes when you are in a crazy situation or relationship long enough, you begin to accept it as normal." 

The moral of the story is that for a six month span I let my emotions be determined by a very unstable person who has no control over her own.  I thought, "She knows what's best" and "Okay I see her point" when looking back I realize I was in a "relationship" with someone who has a serious mental illness and I am fact not the crazy one.

And the truth is, even though I am still in some pain, it is so healing and it feels so good to be able to write these things out and look back to the roller coaster that was my life.  I don't know where I would be without these boards, as they brought me back to reality so many times. 

[RisingSun]

Toward the end! Man, she made me seem like the crazy one for years on end.

Toward the end though, she gaslighted so hard. I had already been worn down over the years so I was more susceptible to the mass confusion that come with being gaslighted. By the time it was over, I went NC because I was terrified of mentally losing it. I was worn down to a grain of sand.

You most likely didn't feel crazy before this relationship. Crazy just has a way of, you know, making you feel crazy.

If you think you're the crazy one, chances are, your the one who's sane.

[Blimblam]

Yes,

They can drive you crazy and make you believe you are the source of the problem. The disorder is relentless. It took me quite a bit of space time and venting to realize I was not the source of the problem although I myself am not perfect.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Yes, she did, but I actually am crazy after thirteen years of that crap.

[willtimeheal]

I find myself asking the question now... .did she rewire my brain through all the different stages that now I am mentally ill or crazy?  Is it possible?  All the ruminations and constant thinking about her... .the addiction.  Is it possible she has changed my brain chemistry to crazy?  I am serious guys. I worry about this all the time.

[JohnLove]

Hello willtimeheal, an easy answer?. If she could "rewire" a brain, don't you think she might start with hers first?. Same with brain chemistry.

You have lived with crazy for far too long. They can be very addictive. She will test you and your issues WILL be highlighted?... .drawn out from the dark, if you will... .and you WILL feel that.

I dont believe it is possible... .but you have been dragged into crazy town by enduring a relationship with a pwBPD. It will feel like you're crazy and you will have maladapted coping behaviours bought on by trying to normalise their behaviour.

The ruminations are proof that you are trying to process behaviour that is essentially nonsensical. You can't make sense out of nonsense. Stop trying. You can only understand yourself. I once said to my BPDgf I would love to get inside your head (essentially to gain a better understanding of why? why? why?) and she replied "ooh, no you don't". I believe her.

None of this makes you crazy but you alone are responsible for your brain chemistry.

Look after it by taking care of YOU.

The tools on this site are invaluable, and the information is eye opening, and these forums are very validating for people just like us in our situations. 

What I don't enjoy is the way many stories from people on the complete opposite sides of the world, who have never met, have situations that parallel and are eerily extremely similar.

That can't happen by accident.  

[freedom33]

I find myself asking the question now... .did she rewire my brain through all the different stages that now I am mentally ill or crazy?  Is it possible?  All the ruminations and constant thinking about her... .the addiction.  Is it possible she has changed my brain chemistry to crazy?  I am serious guys. I worry about this all the time.

'Prolonged stress from abuse can result in structural changes to prefrontal cortex, amygdala and hippocampus. It also compromises the immune, neural and neuroendocrine systems. These changes can result in chronic illness, medical conditions, mental disorders and somatoform disorders.'

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_and_control_in_abusive_relationships

But as you go NC and recover and heal your brain will rewire itself back to normal. It is fair to say that most of us here are like veterans and tortured POWs that have just come back home.

[PhoenixBlack]

Yes, for sure. As others have testified and I myself, experienced many instances where I questioned my own judgement and at times, my sanity. The emotional blackmail and abuse was such that it made me wonder if I was in the wrong. She made me believe in those moments that if I loved her, I should support her even when in my heart, I knew that she was in the wrong. I temporarily lost friends because of her insistence that I'd have to choose between them. Her favourite line for these situations being "Well it's clear to me that you value them more than me!"  This would be accompanied by floods of tears.

At the time, I had no inkling that she had BPD. I had no idea what I was dealing with and yes, I began to rationalise and normalise her behaviours. Her distorted views started to become my own. What you are going through seems to be fairly consistent with what others have experienced. You are not crazy.

[StayOrLeave15]

"Well it's clear to me that you value them more than me!"  This would be accompanied by floods of tears.

What I don't enjoy is the way many stories from people on the complete opposite sides of the world, who have never met, have situations that parallel and are eerily extremely similar.

I would be told the exact same thing:

- If a friend told me something in confidence and I wouldn't tell her, it meant I cared about the friend more.

- If I ever mentioned another girl that I'd had feelings for in the past, it meant my feelings for her meant less.

- If anything about my ex ever came up, it meant that I wasn't over her (we were friends with no feelings for each other!)

- If I wouldn't tell her what I talked about in therapy, it meant that I was keeping secrets from her.

Deep down I knew her behavior was not normal, but I was so lost and mixed up in it I began to think I might be the crazy one.  She would say these things with such gravity and conviction that it became hard to doubt her.  My friends and family all told me to get away from her. One friend gave me an ultimatum: "It's her or me. You pick." Others refused to see me if she was there.  She tried to alienate me from my friends but all it led to were lies.  I lied to her that I wasn't spending time with certain people and I lied to my friends that I wasn't seeing her.  At some point you have to say to yourself, if the life you are living is a huge lie, then something must not be right. 

I feel that the nons on here are generally rational people.  We all have our issues, but not the bizarreness that comes with BPD. 

The ruminations are proof that you are trying to process behaviour that is essentially nonsensical. You can't make sense out of nonsense. Stop trying. You can only understand yourself.

My little image is that being in a relationship with a pwBPD is like being a puppet with strings pulling emotions in all directions.  Except the problem is that the puppeteer is volatile, unpredictable, crazy, drunk, etc.  And the little puppet gets torn to shreds.  All while thinking this is how things are supposed to be.

[hope2727]

Yes for sure. I even started taking notes when he would rage at me. It was a friend who pointed out that he was gas lighting me. He still tries. He is coming to take the remainder of his belongings out of the house tomorrow and has been throwing nasty blaming emails at me for 48 hours. Whatever. I am leaving as soon as he gets here and not returning until he leaves. I would rather be alone than made to feel crazy. It is not healthy. Stay strong. We shall recover.

[willtimeheal]

Hello willtimeheal, an easy answer?. If she could "rewire" a brain, don't you think she might start with hers first?.

Great point!

[Hawk Ridge]

Mine left me five months ago after telling me she had "fallen out of love" with me "months ago."  She said she wanted to be alone to grieve a previous relationship but then was madly in love with someone else within 2 months.  Everything said in this thread thus far fits like a T.  I am seeing a therapist, taking meds for depression but still cry frequently as I feel like a loser.   I am an accomplished professional woman who was made to feel like I am an idiot.  This weekend, I accidentally locked my keys in the car and, even though I haven't seen her for a few months, I was afraid I was going to "get in trouble," and be told how stupid I am.  Flashbacks so frequent to the verbal maltreatment.  The person she is with right now has several young adult children.  She clashed with her previous partner about how children should be treated as my ex uBPD never had kids and she felt her previous partner was not strict enough.  Any thoughts or experiences about how  that works?   We were together for 1.5 years but her distancing, unpredictability, Dr. jeckyl/Mr. Hyde act started t three months. My T says she'll do the same gaslighting and abuse to her new partner.   Any thoughts on this?  Finally, any clues when this pain will subside? sadly, I still love her and I feel such shame over not being over her yet.   I so get how it feels like we are the crazy ones... .

[willtimeheal]

Mine left me five months ago after telling me she had "fallen out of love" with me "months ago."  She said she wanted to be alone to grieve a previous relationship but then was madly in love with someone else within 2 months.  Everything said in this thread thus far fits like a T.  I am seeing a therapist, taking meds for depression but still cry frequently as I feel like a loser.   I am an accomplished professional woman who was made to feel like I am an idiot.  This weekend, I accidentally locked my keys in the car and, even though I haven't seen her for a few months, I was afraid I was going to "get in trouble," and be told how stupid I am.  Flashbacks so frequent to the verbal maltreatment.  The person she is with right now has several young adult children.  She clashed with her previous partner about how children should be treated as my ex uBPD never had kids and she felt her previous partner was not strict enough.  Any thoughts or experiences about how  that works?   We were together for 1.5 years but her distancing, unpredictability, Dr. jeckyl/Mr. Hyde act started t three months. My T says she'll do the same gaslighting and abuse to her new partner.   Any thoughts on this?  Finally, any clues when this pain will subside? sadly, I still love her and I feel such shame over not being over her yet.   I so get how it feels like we are the crazy ones... .

I see a therapist and am on meds for depression. My partner and I were together on and off for almost six years. I still love my girl but I am beginning to understand that she is never going to change. My therapist also told me just like yours did that my ex will destroy her next relationship as well. Don't feel shame for not being over her yet... .You love her and had hopes and dreams. It takes time to process and grieve the loss. Be kind to yourself and know that you are not alone. I am an educated professional woman and I too have days that I feel like an idiot due to the abuse I went through. We are not idiots... .we are kind compassionate caring people who unfortunately fell for people who were incapable of loving us back.

[Hawk Ridge]

Thank you, willtimeheal.   Your validation helped more than you know.  I have been isolating, not knowing how to talk about the pain and not getting a lot of understanding from those who have never been exposed to BPD.  To add to my despair, I am a mental health professional and I just couldn't recognize it until she threw me away.   I was so in the middle of it and I have done my job for nearly 25 years and... .I couldn't see it ... .even though my hands would shake at the thought of her anger... .i couldn't see it.  I am having difficulty accepting her disorder as I know the prognosis is bleak unless she becomes open to treatment.  I know logically I should run but,even though my stomach acts out at the thought of a reunification after she harms her current partner, I still desire a recycle. Grief and all the ruminations that accompany it... .suck.

[StayOrLeave15]

I know logically I should run but,even though my stomach acts out at the thought of a reunification after she harms her current partner, I still desire a recycle. Grief and all the ruminations that accompany it... .suck.

I was in this dance for months.  Many on these boards were in it for years.  Our logical sides tell us to get out, but our emotional sides want more.  These BPD partners fulfill something deep within us, our subconscious, who knows... .

If I were you I would focus on myself and stay away.  I went back much too many times.  It got to a point where I would wake up every morning depressed because I was without her.  Then I would reach out to see her, spend the night with her, and wake up even more depressed because I knew deep down it was wrong. 

Your body is talking to you.  Listen to it.  It is okay to be in pain, but please think about how much more pain there will be if you try to restart/continue any kind of relationship/recycle.  I felt like the heroin addict who just kept saying "One more hit and I'm done," but it took so much to quit her.  The question is, if you keep going back for another hit, when will you OD?