More emails...

[willy45]

So, I emailed her back last week and said I couldn't 'just be friends' with her. That it was too hard for me and disruptive. Here are three responses I got back:

1)

Willy,

Seriously.  Instead of continuing this bis, sad, unnecessary drama about things not working out and what happened and where things are at--let's just start over.  Let's just forgive, forget, and move on.  Life is too short.  We both care about and want each other in our lives, so let's stop being so stupid about this.  Let's move on and be friends like normal people.

2)

Willy,

Besides, I think you'd find that if we just talked/hung out normally--things would normalize between us and it would get easier. I miss being friends. I wish I could call on you right now to help me figure out what to do with my life and help me get inspired. I wish I could share stories with you about nm and et your thoughts  on projects I'm working on. I miss that. I miss your friendship. A lot.

3)

Willy,

Finally--and this is the last thing I'll say--stop being so concerned about what is or isn't, what can or can't be. We are just both here, on this planet doing our thing. Some stuff went down between us. We're both doing our best to carry on. And we'll keep doing so. You've got to let the past go and keep moving. There is no reason to let us being friends derail your life. It's not that hard. Really. Everything will be fine.

SO... .Maybe I am the crazy one. I don't get it. I told her it hurt me. I told it made me sad. I told her that I couldn't be 'just friends', that it destabilized me and made me feel dishonest to my girlfriend (who almost broke up with me today, I might add... .)

Blah... .I guess I just need to let go of trying to understand it. And I need to let go of it making any sense to me. It doesn't. I guess I need to focus on me and that I'm important in this equation. It doesn't matter if she is missing me, needing help in her career, whatever. She can miss it all I want. Just because contact with her is poison to me doesn't mean I am crazy or 'not normal'. Just don't want to deal anymore... .

[Rifka]

So, I emailed her back last week and said I couldn't 'just be friends' with her. That it was too hard for me and disruptive. Here are three responses I got back:

1)

Willy,

Seriously.  Instead of continuing this bis, sad, unnecessary drama about things not working out and what happened and where things are at--let's just start over.  Let's just forgive, forget, and move on.  Life is too short.  We both care about and want each other in our lives, so let's stop being so stupid about this.  Let's move on and be friends like normal people.

2)

Willy,

Besides, I think you'd find that if we just talked/hung out normally--things would normalize between us and it would get easier. I miss being friends. I wish I could call on you right now to help me figure out what to do with my life and help me get inspired. I wish I could share stories with you about nm and et your thoughts  on projects I'm working on. I miss that. I miss your friendship. A lot.

3)

Willy,

Finally--and this is the last thing I'll say--stop being so concerned about what is or isn't, what can or can't be. We are just both here, on this planet doing our thing. Some stuff went down between us. We're both doing our best to carry on. And we'll keep doing so. You've got to let the past go and keep moving. There is no reason to let us being friends derail your life. It's not that hard. Really. Everything will be fine.

SO... .Maybe I am the crazy one. I don't get it. I told her it hurt me. I told it made me sad. I told her that I couldn't be 'just friends', that it destabilized me and made me feel dishonest to my girlfriend (who almost broke up with me today, I might add... .)

Blah... .I guess I just need to let go of trying to understand it. And I need to let go of it making any sense to me. It doesn't. I guess I need to focus on me and that I'm important in this equation. It doesn't matter if she is missing me, needing help in her career, whatever. She can miss it all I want. Just because contact with her is poison to me doesn't mean I am crazy or 'not normal'. Just don't want to deal anymore... .

Willy yes you have to get to the place where it's about you! This is making you so sick over and over again.

It's n/c or torture that you accept for yourself over and over.


Willy you can do this!

Please know that you are important to us, even if you have not accepted that you need to be important to you!

MY EXES LAST TEXTS SAID THE SAME EXACT THINGS, I SWEAR I WOULD SHOW YOU THEM IF I COULD,

She does not care about you except what you will do for her when she lassos you back into her web.

You can not be friends with her because you love her and she will torment you because of that love and hold she has over you!


N/C willy! Nothing at all! Break free from her hold! Be strong! You can do it!

[Infern0]

Don't go there willy,  I got the same things, I'd just started getting my head straight and I got "I'm sad that our friendship is over, maybe we just need to hang out" and yeah I caved and went there.  Fast forward a few weeks and I'd hit a new low and am currently locked in a battle not to lose my job which I barely have the strength left to fight, all because of my interaction with her.

Just don't do it man, seriously I can't even tell you how bad it's gonna be.

[Recooperating]

Willy,

Im so sorry! I would also be confused if I were to get something like this.

What is very typicall in these messages is... .The amounts of I NEED... .There's nothing in there about your needs, not even a how are you doing?

Its all I need this, I need that... .

Please see it for what it is... .Super Selfish!

Examine your own needs. Respect and take care of your own needs, cause to me its sounds like she doesnt take your needs in consideration at all!

Im sorry man. Take good care of yourself.

I hope you feel better soon! 

[trappedinlove]

I was in a similar situation and I told her the truth that she is my soul mate, the love of my life, and one of the most important people that entered my life and I do want to remain best friends but keeping contact with her literally breaks my heart and tears me apart and I feel like I'm losing it mentally so I have to take care of myself be keeping distance from her for awhile until I detach and my emotions cool down.  I stressed that she will and is always a friend to me even when we do not communicate and not in contact.

Unfortunately, she took it as abandonment and split me black

For her, with her dissociation "skills" she developed to survive sexual abuse as a child and teenager, and Borderline splitting traits it was so much easier to switch her feelings off and perceive me in an instant as "just a friend".

She even told me about it on a different occasion how this process is taking place as she feels hurt and abandoned, ruminating and needing, and within 3-4 days a switch inside her goes off as she can't handle these negative feelings anymore and she stops missing the person (me in this case) and the feelings stop.

It was devastating to me but I had no other way.

Deep inside I still want us to be friends again and I miss her a lot.

I'm not sure I'm ready for that now though or if I'll ever be.

I sense that I might face this dilemma soon as I've met her a couple weeks ago in an event and it did shake me and triggered anxiety again.

But the encounter was quite good and calm.  She told me about her new r/s and I told her about mine.

We exchanged brief texts after which, thanking each other and appreciating the fun we had.

Since then I'm getting signs over fb that the black paint is starting to crack as she compartmentalize me less and shares personal posts again so I feel like a recycle is imminent.  On one hand I'm happy she trusts me again to be in a close circles and that she is more comfortable being in some form of contact with me, probably now that I seem to have a stable r/s.  But on the other hand, knowing her so well and how unstable she is right now, I know how dangerous getting back in contact could be to me.  I really wish I'd be truly over her by now so we can be "just friends".

[Rise]

I don't get it. I told her it hurt me. I told it made me sad. I told her that I couldn't be 'just friends', that it destabilized me and made me feel dishonest to my girlfriend (who almost broke up with me today, I might add... .)

You told her all these things, and yet she's still pushing you to do something that's going to cause you a great deal of emotional damage, because it's better for her. How many of your other friends would do that to you? She's not ever going to be your friend, because she can't be your friend, and this just illustrates why.

This is your life Willy. Not hers. You've got to stop looking for her to fix this for you. She's not going to. You deserve better than this. Your new relationship deserves the chance to grow and evolve on its own. You deserve peace, and healing, and a chance to be happy. You deserve for things to get better. And things starts getting better when you decide to click "Block Sender".

Best luck.

[Suspicious1]

Those were my first thoughts when I read it too - you've said you need to heal and you can't do it while you're friends (NOT an unreasonable thing for an ex to say), and all she's given you is a list of reasons why "you're wrong" about your own feelings because those things don't fit with her feelings. It's all about what she wants and needs, and she's prioritising those things WAY above what you've stated your needs are. Besides, where was her need to have you in her life when she was splitting you black?

[Lolster]

Willy,

Im so sorry! I would also be confused if I were to get something like this.

Its all I need this, I need that... .

Please see it for what it is... .Super Selfish!What is very typicall in these messages is... .The amounts of I NEED... .There's nothing in there about your needs, not even a how are you doing?



Examine your own needs. Respect and take care of your own needs, cause to me its sounds like she doesnt take your needs in consideration at all!

Im sorry man. Take good care of yourself.

I hope you feel better soon! 

Exactly what I saw, all about what SHE needs/wants without a care in the world for how that affects you. 

[BacknthSaddle]

Let's try to make it clear that you're not "the crazy one:"

We both care about and want each other in our lives, so let's stop being so stupid about this.  Let's move on and be friends like normal people.

How many of your "friends," when you've disclosed a difficult feeling to them, have told you that you are "stupid" for having that feeling?

I miss being friends. I wish I could call on you right now to help me figure out what to do with my life and help me get inspired. I wish I could share stories with you about nm and et your thoughts  on projects I'm working on. I miss that. I miss your friendship. A lot.

Not "I wish we could laugh and joke together" or "I wish we could talk about what music we're listening to" or anything like that.  Just "I wish you could HELP ME [blah blah blah] and HELP ME [blah blah blah]."  You're my friend = HELP ME.

Finally--and this is the last thing I'll say--stop being so concerned about what is or isn't, what can or can't be. We are just both here, on this planet doing our thing. Some stuff went down between us. We're both doing our best to carry on. And we'll keep doing so. You've got to let the past go and keep moving. There is no reason to let us being friends derail your life. It's not that hard. Really. Everything will be fine.

Again, how many "friends" say to you "Willy, I understand you're feeling this thing, but your feelings are stupid and childish.  Grow up and be my friend."  Does that sound like a friendly thing to say?

And if you're still not convinced, please consider: how many people do you know that, when told explicitly that someone doesn't want to be their friend (or, nevermind that, just when someone consistently avoids them and makes it clear they have no interest), persist to the point of begging that the former "friend" stays in their life?  Does that sound like someone who has healthy relationships?  Someone who begs people who don't want to be friends with them to be friends anyway?

You are right: what she wants or misses is completely irrelevant.  Like many here including myself, it is a challenge for you to put your needs ahead of hers (and probably ahead of others generally). These relationships don't occur because one person is "crazy" and the other isn't, as we all know.  They occur because one person is desperately in search of someone to be available to soothe them and meet their needs at all times, and the other person is willing to oblige. 

You say you don't want to deal anymore.  So stop dealing. 

[Infern0]

It really is same old same old willy.

This is how a normal person would reach out if they had done the things she had, felt remorse and wanted to make amends.

Hi willy.

            I understand that you may not want to hear from me. I probably wouldn't if I was in your shoes.  I just wanted to apologize for the things I did wrong. I made mistakes and I know I hurt you.  I realize you may want nothing more to do with me, and if that is the case then I will respect your wishes and leave you be. If there is any chance at reconciliation please let me know. I want us to be in each others lives,  and I would like to be able to make amends and build a true friendship. If that isn't possible then Thankyou for everything you did for me, I appreciate it and I wish you the best.  I leave it in your hands.



Something like that,  rational,  logical,  respectful.  Not blah blah blah me me me.

[willy45]

Thanks guys. I do need some help for seeing it for what it is. This is just confusing and disorienting.

She calls a month ago and tells me I am her soul mate, basically. How she will never find anyone as good as me, how much she misses me, wondering if I am single, telling me how she compared me to her now ex every day and that he didn't live up to the passion, excitement, and synergies we had and blah blah blah.

I told her that I had PTSD from our relationship, that her rage made scared of her, how I had to hide under the bed from her and how much damage walking on eggshells had on me psychologically and how it destroyed my self esteem and sense of self. I told her that I had panic attacks and anxiety when she contacted me. And only three months ago, I sent her a very clear, explicit email to stop contacting me if she cared about me at all.

I guess I'm stuck on her motives because I just don't believe them. Maybe I don't want to believe them. That's part of it for sure. But who says these things to someone they want to be 'friends' with. I don't get it.

And yes. This is all about need. And certainly not mine. I don't want to be friends with her. At all. And I don't want to get back together with her. I really don't. That makes me sick to my stomach at just the thought.

So what's my deal then? That, I don't understand. I guess I'm scared about getting sucked back in because it is so easy for me to do that. I just seem to fall in zombie mode when I'm around her. And not because I'm 'in love' with her. I think it has to do with years and years and years of surpressing my emotions so that she wouldn't abuse verbally and emotionally. That is the mode I get into. I try to appease her so she won't be mean to me.

[Rifka]

It really is same old same old willy.

This is how a normal person would reach out if they had done the things she had, felt remorse and wanted to make amends.

Hi willy.

            I understand that you may not want to hear from me. I probably wouldn't if I was in your shoes.  I just wanted to apologize for the things I did wrong. I made mistakes and I know I hurt you.  I realize you may want nothing more to do with me, and if that is the case then I will respect your wishes and leave you be. If there is any chance at reconciliation please let me know. I want us to be in each others lives,  and I would like to be able to make amends and build a true friendship. If that isn't possible then Thankyou for everything you did for me, I appreciate it and I wish you the best.  I leave it in your hands.



Something like that,  rational,  logical,  respectful.  Not blah blah blah me me me.

Inferno,

Truly if willy asked her to give him space and still she sent any type of note, no matter what it said is CROSSING BOUNDARIES AND DISRESPECTING HIS REQUEST.


my exact basically said word for word of what you wrote would be acceptable, but you know what, IT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE! It was him attempt to pull me under the bus again by pulling on my heart strings!

Don't fall for these attempts or candy to trick you into the torture zone! It all a trick!

It's recharging them and giving them the power and pulling it from you!

Please see it for what it is, total disrespect and deception.

If you ask to be left alone, it should be respected or if ignored then see it as the RED FLAG it is.

Again I am not judging anybody. I know I have recycled over and over and made excuses for my decision each time!

I have just truly had enough for myself and only need to stick to the cold hard facts that exist in my own experience.

I have no more time to waste caring about why he did what!

Why did I do whatever is all I care about and to make sure I don't keep repeating my patterns, especially with my ex, for what? Do I want more pain and torture from somebody I gave everything to and it was not enough? How can that make sense to me to want to do it again. I have to remember the horrible truth of the complete disrespect he offered me, nothing more!

You really need to step back and decide what you want for you and try and stick to it!

Hugs and more hugs!

[pieceofme]

this is a good thread! i have been hearing the exact same words from my ex. i've repeatedly told him to leave me alone, that i'm scared of him, etc. and he continues to disrespect that boundary. he continues to beg for me to "talk to him like normal" because he "misses telling me about his day"

blah blah blah me me me.

EXACTLY!

[willy45]

Thanks guys.

Yeah. I just need to work on my boundaries. And be pissed.

[Rifka]

Thanks guys.

Yeah. I just need to work on my boundaries. And be pissed.

 hugs for you willy!

[willy45]

It's just so weird how I go into complete zombie mode. Never had this before. I'm so good about boundaries in other areas of my life. I just go into complete zombie mode. Sucks. Makes me feel like a complete idiot.

[Rifka]

It's just so weird how I go into complete zombie mode. Never had this before. I'm so good about boundaries in other areas of my life. I just go into complete zombie mode. Sucks. Makes me feel like a complete idiot.

Willy,

You are not an idiot! You are lovely and loving and caring for others. You just need to get to the point where you know you have to be number one for the time being until you heal and are strong enough to stop thinking well maybe!

You have to become hard and cold for a little while, just towards the ex!

Tolerate nothing! Accept nothing! Give nothing! No time, no attention and the big one is only negative thoughts!

[Suspicious1]

It's just so weird how I go into complete zombie mode. Never had this before. I'm so good about boundaries in other areas of my life. I just go into complete zombie mode. Sucks. Makes me feel like a complete idiot.

You're not an idiot - it sounds to me like maybe you've been conditioned to do as she says or suffer the consequences. So you have to put ALL your effort into going against your conditioning, and having to face the fear that generates. No wonder it has an effect on you this way.

[willy45]

Yeah. I'm so used to just complying or else feel the wrath, the rage, the belittling, the berating.

I guess if I look closely at these emails, she's basically just doing this again. Belittling me for what I express as a boundary. Calling me a child, stupid, 'not normal'.

It is pretty hurtful. Making me feel small and insignificant to her 'magnanimous and gracious' offer to be my friend.

Somehow, I am stupid for feeling hurt. I am stupid for trying to protect myself and protect my relationship. I just go straight into Zombie mode where this stuff starts to make sense when it doesn't. At all.

And I know her. She isn't after me to 'just be friends'. She wants me close. Super close. In case she should change her mind and want to be with me. But she doesn't care at all how this affects me.

I deserve much, much better.

[Rifka]

Yeah. I'm so used to just complying or else feel the wrath, the rage, the belittling, the berating.

I guess if I look closely at these emails, she's basically just doing this again. Belittling me for what I express as a boundary. Calling me a child, stupid, 'not normal'.

It is pretty hurtful. Making me feel small and insignificant to her 'magnanimous and gracious' offer to be my friend.

Somehow, I am stupid for feeling hurt. I am stupid for trying to protect myself and protect my relationship. I just go straight into Zombie mode where this stuff starts to make sense when it doesn't. At all.

And I know her. She isn't after me to 'just be friends'. She wants me close. Super close. In case she should change her mind and want to be with me. But she doesn't care at all how this affects me.

I deserve much, much better.

Willy there is no relationship, just ownership here! Don't let her in your head so much, stop questioning your intentions about her. Question your intentions instead on what you are doing to you, why let somebody who does not care for you as a true friend does continue to hurt you.

Learn to say no, it's really powerful. Reset your boundaries that you have let go of.

We all do it over and over, we are not idiots or stupid, we just believe in hopefulness. It exists in us, but not the exes.

[willy45]

Yeah. I know. Thanks so much.

What I meant by 'protecting my relationship' means the actual relationship I am in with someone else. Something else I told my ex that I needed to honor and take care of so could only be friends at a distance.

[Rifka]

Yeah. I know. Thanks so much.

What I meant by 'protecting my relationship' means the actual relationship I am in with someone else. Something else I told my ex that I needed to honor and take care of so could only be friends at a distance.

Willy respect the new woman!

What is friends at a distance? No friendship, n/c, no anything willy with the ex!

How would you feel if your new girlfriend was doing this with her ex BPD?

It doesn't sit right in my heart.

Either focus on the new woman or free her for a man that respects her!

You have nothing to explain to the ex, why do you keep thinking you do?

Why bring somebody new into this mess if you are not ready to focus on her alone!

I'm curious because I am staying alone to avoid this scenario for myself and I don't want to hurt anybody or myself.

Please don't feel I'm judging you, I'm just trying to understand your thought process in the new relationship?

[Rifka]

Yeah. I know. Thanks so much.

What I meant by 'protecting my relationship' means the actual relationship I am in with someone else. Something else I told my ex that I needed to honor and take care of so could only be friends at a distance.

Willy respect the new woman!

What is friends at a distance? No friendship, n/c, no anything willy with the ex!

How would you feel if your new girlfriend was doing this with her ex BPD?

It doesn't sit right in my heart.

Either focus on the new woman or free her for a man that respects her!

You have nothing to explain to the ex, why do you keep thinking you do?

Why bring somebody new into this mess if you are not ready to focus on her alone!

I'm curious because I am staying alone to avoid this scenario for myself and I don't want to hurt anybody or myself.

Please don't feel I'm judging you, I'm just trying to understand your thought process in the new relationship?

Getting our values and boundaries in order may be a good read here about now, if you are up to it!

[Caredverymuch]

So, I emailed her back last week and said I couldn't 'just be friends' with her. That it was too hard for me and disruptive. Here are three responses I got back:

1)

Willy,

Seriously.  Instead of continuing this bis, sad, unnecessary drama about things not working out and what happened and where things are at--let's just start over.  Let's just forgive, forget, and move on.  Life is too short.  We both care about and want each other in our lives, so let's stop being so stupid about this.  Let's move on and be friends like normal people.

2)

Willy,

Besides, I think you'd find that if we just talked/hung out normally--things would normalize between us and it would get easier. I miss being friends. I wish I could call on you right now to help me figure out what to do with my life and help me get inspired. I wish I could share stories with you about nm and et your thoughts  on projects I'm working on. I miss that. I miss your friendship. A lot.

3)

Willy,

Finally--and this is the last thing I'll say--stop being so concerned about what is or isn't, what can or can't be. We are just both here, on this planet doing our thing. Some stuff went down between us. We're both doing our best to carry on. And we'll keep doing so. You've got to let the past go and keep moving. There is no reason to let us being friends derail your life. It's not that hard. Really. Everything will be fine.

SO... .Maybe I am the crazy one. I don't get it. I told her it hurt me. I told it made me sad. I told her that I couldn't be 'just friends', that it destabilized me and made me feel dishonest to my girlfriend (who almost broke up with me today, I might add... .)

Blah... .I guess I just need to let go of trying to understand it. And I need to let go of it making any sense to me. It doesn't. I guess I need to focus on me and that I'm important in this equation. It doesn't matter if she is missing me, needing help in her career, whatever. She can miss it all I want. Just because contact with her is poison to me doesn't mean I am crazy or 'not normal'. Just don't want to deal anymore... .

Willy,

I've been following your threads here for a while.  I think the only question you need to ask yourself is this: how is staying in contact with this person affecting my life?

Are you able to answer that with one positive?

[willy45]

Yup. You are both right. Its f'd up what I'm doing. And I really can't think of one positive at all other than me ex all of a sudden not being a manipulative b$tch and we live happily ever after. That is the fantasy I can't seem to let go of. Or rather, it is the fantasy I have let go of over and over and over again. But its a powerful one that sucks me back in. That is what I have to own.

Going to T tonight... .

[Harri]

Hi Willy.  I agree with every response here so I won't bother quoting or re-stating what has already been said.  They are right on the money.    

Willy, you are not crazy. 

When I kept going back to my ex and to others who treated me poorly I had to step back and ask myself what I was getting out of the relationship and out of the push pull, belittling, etc.  I found a few reasons for why I did it ranging from that is the type of environment I was raised in to my beliefs about what i deserved from others.  I kept going back because their abusive behaviors were part of my definition of normal behavior *and* going back kept putting me back into alternating roles of rescuer and victim.  As unpleasant and hurtful as I found the relationships, I was comfortable in them.  It is not easy to admit that and I still cringe just typing it here.  The abusive relationships satisfied a lot of old scripts I had.  I still struggle with this and only recently broke off a friendship with someone where I was doing the same old things.   :'(  I still don't understand everything about the relationship, I just know that it was not healthy for me.  I got out and now I can figure the why part out.

Now I don't know why you keep going back, and I could be way off, but take some time exploring your beliefs about what you deserve and what normal looks like.  Spend some time asking yourself what need in you is being satisfied by this part of your relationship.  Chances are you are going to find something that seems to be driving your behavior and holding on to the fantasy. 

[BacknthSaddle]

I deserve much, much better.

What you "deserve" is all of the things that a healthy relationship brings: emotional SAFETY in the face of intimacy, a feeling if partnership in the face of life challenges (managing a household, say, or a family), a sense of companionship, all in the context of intimacy that includes but is not defined by a healthy sexual relationship.

I would ask you if you can envision ANY of these things occurring with your ex. And, if not, what exactly is going on in that fantasy? What makes it worth holding onto?

[willy45]

Thank you all for your support. I really appreciate it.

Here is my sanity pledge:

I will not allow someone in my life who willfully disregards my boundaries and has no concern for my well being and who belittles my attempts at getting better. I will not allow someone who has shown they are capable of abusing me run over my attempts to have good, healthy boundaries that I believe are good for me. And I do not need a crazy, needy b$tch in my life who is going to suck me dry of my time, money, and energy.

[Rifka]

Thank you all for your support. I really appreciate it.

Here is my sanity pledge:

I will not allow someone in my life who willfully disregards my boundaries and has no concern for my well being and who belittles my attempts at getting better. I will not allow someone who has shown they are capable of abusing me run over my attempts to have good, healthy boundaries that I believe are good for me. And I do not need a crazy, needy b$tch in my life who is going to suck me dry of my time, money, and energy.

Keep strong Willy!

We all deserve so much better than our exes can ever be on their best day!

Remember fairy tales are just stories of dreams and fantasies .

Our exes were the fairy tale lives we all dreamed of when they were fabulous...

When they were bad, we got a preview look at what I imagine hell is!