Devaluation - can the pwBPD ever stop it?

[Pets]

Hi,

I'm still very new to this board & trying to understand a bit better what happened in my relationship with my exbf who is uBPD.

Our "idealization" stage lasted just over 2 months, when my exbf suddenly started withdrawing from me almost overnight for no apparent reason and devaluing comments towards me gradually started creeping in.  I am now fairly certain it was because our relationship was becoming a lot closer/more serious & I started reciprocating the strong feelings which he had expressed from very early on.  The only reason he gave was that I was too thoughtful & giving and it made him anxious, that I was trying to control him to stay in the relationship.  It made little sense to me at the time.

However, he had some awareness of what was happening at the time - he said he could feel the distance and change coming into his emotions and that it confused, scared and really upset him.  In a way, he wanted to stop the process from happening, because he wanted our relationship to work (as he had had several failed relationships before).  He said that he wanted to do things differently for once, not to flee, like he had always done before.  Sadly, in the end, he couldn't, and broke up our relationship.  But he was angry with himself and felt defeated afterwards.

Has anyone ever experienced a similar scenario before, where their SO with BPD has some level of awareness of what is happening & wants to stop it, but can't?  I guess my question is - is devaluation always inevitable, or can people with BPD get to a healthier/more balanced/realistic view of their partner that then gives the relationship a better chance of surviving?

I know it is too late for me, but I still feel very sad that ultimately, my exbf wanted a lasting relationship with me and wanted to stop the process from happening, but seemed unable to do so.  I'm obviously not at the acceptance stage yet!

[Caredverymuch]

Hi,

I'm still very new to this board & trying to understand a bit better what happened in my relationship with my exbf who is uBPD.

Our "idealization" stage lasted just over 2 months, when my exbf suddenly started withdrawing from me almost overnight for no apparent reason and devaluing comments towards me gradually started creeping in.  I am now fairly certain it was because our relationship was becoming a lot closer/more serious & I started reciprocating the strong feelings which he had expressed from very early on.  The only reason he gave was that I was too thoughtful & giving and it made him anxious, that I was trying to control him to stay in the relationship.  It made little sense to me at the time.

However, he had some awareness of what was happening at the time - he said he could feel the distance and change coming into his emotions and that it confused, scared and really upset him.  In a way, he wanted to stop the process from happening, because he wanted our relationship to work (as he had had several failed relationships before).  He said that he wanted to do things differently for once, not to flee, like he had always done before.  Sadly, in the end, he couldn't, and broke up our relationship.  But he was angry with himself and felt defeated afterwards.

Has anyone ever experienced a similar scenario before, where their SO with BPD has some level of awareness of what is happening & wants to stop it, but can't?  I guess my question is - is devaluation always inevitable, or can people with BPD get to a healthier/more balanced/realistic view of their partner that then gives the relationship a better chance of surviving?

I know it is too late for me, but I still feel very sad that ultimately, my exbf wanted a lasting relationship with me and wanted to stop the process from happening, but seemed unable to do so.  I'm obviously not at the acceptance stage yet!

Hi Trees.  Good question. I really dont have the answer as mine left our r/s too. I do know that he often said in very lucid moments that he was very aware he had exactly what he always wished he could find in our r/s and  couldn't understand why he couldn't fully get there with me. He would say this with tear filled eyes. I do really feel that was genuine. He knew how much I loved him. Even when he split me for the last time I saw him about a month later. I saw him from afar, he had no idea I was in the same vicinity as him. He was sitting staring straight ahead with a very, very sad gaze and when I approached him, tears fell from both our eyes. The only words I said was that I loved him very much.  He answered that he knew I did. He knew what we had was indeed pure love. He mentioned how hard he was grieving and that he still couldn't understand why he couldn't stay in our r/s.  I do believe those moments of realization and pain were genuine.

He never came back and assumed the Detached Protector schema from there on, well over a year ago.

So hard for those of us here who only knew love.

[goingtostopthis]

Pets,

    I think as long as they look to us as the source to their ultimate happiness rather then having the ability to make themselves happy with us and alone, they will all ways find fault with us. They act as if we have let them down but actually they have let themselves down instead and it gets projected on us.

               My ex started putting me down too. He wasnt happy with his own life which translated himself. Our relationship was long distance after I really put myself out to fly over to his country to see him. He was walking on the moon then and kept telling me he would come see me in turn. We made all these plans of what we were going to do, he even said he wanted to come here (US) and live with me.    I didnt know that in reality I was actually dealing with someone with a child mind. I was dealing with someone who was incapable of holding down a job, or someone who immaturely just refused to hold down a job. I think the second is more true. He had excuses for everything. He was free loading off the state, paid no rent, he never had enough money to do anything. I was like his coach and it got very old. He actually expected me to fly over there again totally ignoring the reality that I spent all most everything I had the first time. It was like he was in this fantisy world where he just expected me to float on over there and land in his lap again like magic while he did nothing.      Like the first time.  He pretended to have a role in being reciprical but I really think in the back of his mind he had no intentions what so ever to put him self out in anyway to see me. It was all apart of this magical world he lived in.    A world of denial about what  the true reality  was about himself.   He had a kind of serpent like ego.  All he saw was himself.

                          He split on me twise an the second time was fast. I wrote him and told him I thought he might have BPD( I know for certain that he does)  ,I was as kind and loving as I could be,  it didnt matter.     Its been 2 months, not a peep from him.  I imagine he thinks hes still punishing me. I wasnt going too wait around for him anymore. I couldnt go on in the kind of pain he was putting me through any more.  It was just too horribly cruel and  sadistic. and he was... .I wrote one last time and ended it for myself for good. I guess the love I thought we shared was my own love being reflected back at me. He was never really there, just very busy thinking he was hiding his illness most of the time.  It was obvious something was wrong with him, I just hung on and on, And of course in his sick way he blamed this on me. Never did he really take any kind of responsibility for himself.  And this is why the put downs never stopped. This on top of his passive aggressive ways, cruelty, and irrational reasonings directed at me.

                               

                                                   

[Tater tot]

Hi,

I'm still very new to this board & trying to understand a bit better what happened in my relationship with my exbf who is uBPD.

Our "idealization" stage lasted just over 2 months, when my exbf suddenly started withdrawing from me almost overnight for no apparent reason and devaluing comments towards me gradually started creeping in.  I am now fairly certain it was because our relationship was becoming a lot closer/more serious & I started reciprocating the strong feelings which he had expressed from very early on.  The only reason he gave was that I was too thoughtful & giving and it made him anxious, that I was trying to control him to stay in the relationship.  It made little sense to me at the time.

However, he had some awareness of what was happening at the time - he said he could feel the distance and change coming into his emotions and that it confused, scared and really upset him.  In a way, he wanted to stop the process from happening, because he wanted our relationship to work (as he had had several failed relationships before).  He said that he wanted to do things differently for once, not to flee, like he had always done before.  Sadly, in the end, he couldn't, and broke up our relationship.  But he was angry with himself and felt defeated afterwards.

Has anyone ever experienced a similar scenario before, where their SO with BPD has some level of awareness of what is happening & wants to stop it, but can't?  I guess my question is - is devaluation always inevitable, or can people with BPD get to a healthier/more balanced/realistic view of their partner that then gives the relationship a better chance of surviving?

I know it is too late for me, but I still feel very sad that ultimately, my exbf wanted a lasting relationship with me and wanted to stop the process from happening, but seemed unable to do so.  I'm obviously not at the acceptance stage yet!

Pets it's a great question and honestly I don't know. My relationship was long distance and when we finally saw each other (we knew each other in HS), I could tell there was distancing in the days leading up too. We didn't even get through dinner, before he said " you don't like me, you don't like me as much as you thought you'd like me" and the weekend went downhill from there. He said he ended it now and not 6 months from now where I might hate him and he'd loose me forever. He didn't want me to be in a relationship where I didn't get everything I deserved, and he gets more distant the more comfortable he gets. From everything I read, it's hard to tell where the genuineness and the disorder lie. I believe my ex was somewhat self aware, but just accepted it for what it was as he hopes every girl is going to be "different".

[Infern0]

I think they would love to change if it were easy and be able to stop devaluing.

Mine admitted to me that she had "hurt people" and said "I always do this because I hate myself"

Of course that was rarely ever the case, that she could be honest with herself.  But she is aware on some level of what she does to people.  99.9% of the time though it's blanket denial.

There is therapy avaliable for them but they have to make the commitment to change which is very difficult because most of the time they cannot accept they have a problem

[Pets]

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies - it is good to be able to learn from others' experiences and it helps to not feel quite so alone.

Caredverymuch - Your situation sounds a really painful one to be in and I found myself identifying with a lot of it.  After we had broken up, there were a few times of honesty, when my exbf told me how empty, sad and disappointed he felt and how he was suffering from the loss of our relationship.  It was incredibly confusing at the time, because he was the one who had ended it!  He said to me that if we had not broken up then, he would have sabotaged what we had sooner or later.  It still breaks my heart to know that something was genuinely there, but he couldn't hold on to it. 

One of the most painful lessons I am learning is that the love that he felt wasn't so much about me as an individual, but about how much the relationship met his own needs for healing/re-parenting.  And when it no longer did, as no relationship can, he became disillusioned with me, even though he did admit that he wanted me to take responsibility for something which is his to address.  I found your link to the article about the Detached Protector and other Schemas really helpful, thanks for pointing me to that. 

As Goingtostopthis is saying, as long as our SOs look to us (or the next partner who comes along, and the one after that) to meet their needs and fill their chronic emptiness, our relationships can't function in a healthy way.  My exbf said once that I made him feel alive and that he loved me for it.  Looking back on that statement now, it is so telling.  Our r/s was never really a healthy balance where it was also about me, who I was as an independent individual, and what he could give to me.  He was exceedingly giving in the beginning, but he said it was a defence so that I would not abandon him, but would love him.  It's hard when you realize things are one-sided - sorry for what you went through Goingtostopthis.

Tater tot - That sounds really frustrating, that your ex was pre-empting what was going to happen in the future, without giving you or the relationship a chance.  It was probably fear of abandonment speaking.  Very hard to accept though.  My exbf had that belief that he would find the right person, the right relationship where he could work out his issues in the context of the relationship.  He's just recently met someone else, so it remains to be seen what will happen.  In my moments of self-doubt, I feel that shame which he projected onto me, that I let him down and that someone else will be able to be what he needs to make it work.  But by all that I have read, it seems that only a therapy relationship is the right context for that healing to take place.  Which is what my exbf was saying after we had split up.  Sadly he couldn't stick with that realization, the emptiness was probably too great.

As Infern0 is saying, therapy is hard and it must be a terrifying path to choose that requires courage and commitment - rather than living in denial.  It's hard when you witness those glimpses of self-awareness and then the return to complete denial.  That also messed with my mind.  In my moments when I can get enough distance from my own hurt, I feel a lot of compassion for my exbf, what it must feel like for him to be stuck in that cycle.  As you say, no one would choose to feel a chronic sadness and to have a dysfunctional r/s.  It's just that denial and the euphoria and promise of a new relationship take over and become the only feeling again for a while.

[missblue]

I think that mine very much thought that he could.

There's this conversation that I had with him... about a month before the first breakup... .that very much haunts my mind.

I don't remember how we got into the topic... .but we'd previously had conversations where he'd told me that all he ever does is hurt everyone and fail everyone.

He'd sort of offhandedly said "I don't know what I'd ever do if I ever hurt you... ."

I'd told him just to hold me, let me cry, and we'd get over it... .but he quickly shot back with an insistent "No! I'd never be able to hurt you... .I love you too much!"

I pointed out that he is human... .humans hurt each other... .it's part of life... .it happens eventually... .but he still refused to even consider the possibility... .just sure that the fact that he loved me would be enough to prevent that from happening.

Less than a month later... .it began.

During one of the spells where he was openly talking to me about his "darkness" as he calls it, he'd told me that I deserved better, he was just going to keep hurting me, and that I should run from him because he was a sinking ship and was only going to drag me down. It was one of those odd "I'm dumping you again because I love you too much" conversations... .but I think it was sort of part of the same thinking as the earlier one. He'd figured out that the fact he loved me wasn't enough to protect me from getting hurt by him when his emotions get control of the wheel. (Fear in this case, anger in some of his past cases)

But, I sort of wonder if his looking for new relationships is part of this thinking. That something is telling him that if he really loved someone enough, he wouldn't hurt them, so since he hurt me, he didn't love me enough, so he should try and find someone else he can love more until he finds the one that he doesn't hurt.

Think we all know how that is going to go... .

[Pets]

Thanks missblue for sharing some of your story.

A lot of what you said resonates with my own experience.  My exbf spoke a few times of his fear of messing up our relationship, hurting me ... .but he also thought that this time was different, at last.

He said once that if he ever gave me cause to doubt the strength of his feelings for me, it would be because he'd grown scared of showing them.  A month later, exactly that happened - fear took over, yet he would not acknowledge it.  I was committed to supporting him through it, but he said after he had ended the relationship that he would not let me and that me showing him love just made him more angry in a way.  What can you do with that?

And yes, I completely echo your thought

That something is telling him that if he really loved someone enough, he wouldn't hurt them, so since he hurt me, he didn't love me enough, so he should try and find someone else he can love more until he finds the one that he doesn't hurt.

Think we all know how that is going to go... .

That's what's hard to accept sometimes - my exbf can't have forgotten what happened with me and what he said afterwards, so it must be his sincere belief that this time (again) it's finally going to be "the one" - a r/s which he doesn't mess up - why would he do it otherwise?

How did you cope?

[Tater tot]

Thanks missblue for sharing some of your story.

A lot of what you said resonates with my own experience.  My exbf spoke a few times of his fear of messing up our relationship, hurting me ... .but he also thought that this time was different, at last.

He said once that if he ever gave me cause to doubt the strength of his feelings for me, it would be because he'd grown scared of showing them.  A month later, exactly that happened - fear took over, yet he would not acknowledge it.  I was committed to supporting him through it, but he said after he had ended the relationship that he would not let me and that me showing him love just made him more angry in a way.  What can you do with that?

And yes, I completely echo your thought

That something is telling him that if he really loved someone enough, he wouldn't hurt them, so since he hurt me, he didn't love me enough, so he should try and find someone else he can love more until he finds the one that he doesn't hurt.

Think we all know how that is going to go... .

That's what's hard to accept sometimes - my exbf can't have forgotten what happened with me and what he said afterwards, so it must be his sincere belief that this time (again) it's finally going to be "the one" - a r/s which he doesn't mess up - why would he do it otherwise?

How did you cope?

Same story here. Funny I've never had a relationship before where there was so MUCH talk early on about not "hurting" the other person (I.e BPD not hurting the non). I wonder if this is all part of the manipulation, although subtly, in some pwBPD or with some male BPDs. Funny I never saw those conversations as flags, until now.

[missblue]

I was committed to supporting him through it, but he said after he had ended the relationship that he would not let me and that me showing him love just made him more angry in a way.  What can you do with that?

That's actually one of the areas where I think I messed things up the biggest not knowing what I was dealing with... .I totally tried to argue logic here against something that totally wasn't logic based, thinking that surely as smart as he is it that he would have to eventually see my points.

He got a nice collection of emails attempting to convince him that I do know the bad sides exist and still love him and will still love him... .that never hurting someone is a standard that nobody can meet... .that I don't need him to be the "emotional rock" he told me that I needed him to be but said he couldn't be... .that obviously I was getting what I needed from him or I wouldn't be upset... .and even a gentle one letting him know that I get that he wants to try fresh and hope he can keep from ever showing the new girl his bad sides but that its going to eventually have the same result.

And given that I was flipping from black to white so much, a few of them hit well in his spells of loving me, but a lot of them hit while he was hating me and just made him more annoyed.

I was trying to use the fact that I love him so much as a reason to return... .when what he'd been telling me (after he calmed down and the nonsense reasons stopped each time) was that he was scared of things getting too serious and was reacting out of fear and panic to cause the dumpings.

Trying to fight a fear of engulfment... .with messages reassuring him that I was so into him that there might be a good reason to fear engulfment. Gee... wonder why that wasn't working?

How did you cope?

I'm not a good example here . I'm still at the point where I'm trying to accept that it's the way things are and it's not in his control to change it either, and move on and heal, but I still have a part of me that is delusional enough to ignore every story on here saying otherwise and think that if only I'd known what I was dealing with, maybe we could have made it work, if only he would just give me one more recycle round with my having my eyes open and armed with tools... .full well knowing that the odds are very much that even if it actually did happen I'd be right back where I am now within days and that I'm much better off just staying at this place and working through it now. I'm still new to this... .

[Pets]

I totally tried to argue logic here against something that totally wasn't logic based, thinking that surely as smart as he is it that he would have to eventually see my points.

He got a nice collection of emails attempting to convince him that I do know the bad sides exist and still love him and will still love him... .

Trying to fight a fear of engulfment... .with messages reassuring him that I was so into him that there might be a good reason to fear engulfment. Gee... wonder why that wasn't working?

Yep, I did exactly the same.  And couldn't understand why he didn't seem to get it.  The fact of the matter is that he probably heard very loud and clear, but wasn't able to fully understand or receive the message how it was meant - instead of commitment as an effort on my part to control him.

During one of the conversations we had, I once said that he was his own worst enemy - he could not let himself receive the very thing that he craves, which is consistent love from someone.

I think the trouble is that if we didn't communicate our love, things would cause an adverse reaction, too.  That's the point at which the fear of abandonment kicks in and they cut you off anyway because they think you will not want to stay with them. 

When I think about what I could have done differently (which I do an awful lot of), I sometimes feel that there's just no way that I could have "won", even armed with the knowledge that it was BPD that I was dealing with (which neither of us had then) and having an understanding of what may or may not be helpful.

I guess the reality is that a mature, lasting relationship should be 50/50 as much as possible and it will only work if the pwBPD also takes some responsibility and plays their part to make the relationship work.  I know certainly for myself, the danger is to want to take on more responsibility than I should.

I'm not a good example here . I'm still at the point where I'm trying to accept that it's the way things are and it's not in his control to change it either, and move on and heal, but I still have a part of me that is delusional enough to ignore every story on here saying otherwise and think that if only I'd known what I was dealing with, maybe we could have made it work, if only he would just give me one more recycle round with my having my eyes open and armed with tools... .full well knowing that the odds are very much that even if it actually did happen I'd be right back where I am now within days and that I'm much better off just staying at this place and working through it now. I'm still new to this... .

Don't worry, I do the same!  Even though rationally I know that the chances of things turning out differently with another go are very, very slim, I find myself playing over the possibilities in my mind.  I regularly catch myself fantasizing about my exbf getting into treatment/therapy (which he said he was going to do after we broke up; that was before he got into a relationship with someone new) and us being able to work it out and eventually having a healthy relationship.  I don't believe it's impossible, but it would be a long road until then and a tough one at that.

Acceptance and moving on is so hard, isn't it?

Take care.

[merlin4926]

My expbd wasn't sure if he had loved either of his previous girlfriends and he only said it to me once and even then it was "i think that I really do love you". it was downhill from there, rapidly!  I only told him I loved him once because I knew it freaked him out.  I agree with missblue that maybe they think they can't love you if they hurt you and that's why they keep moving on.

I suppose I've convinced myself that he must have loved me because otherwise he wouldn't split me he would have just stopped contact like he's done 5th so many people. He didn't want me anymore but couldn't let go either. Don't suppose he's any happier now he has succeeded in getting me out of his life