Something my T said that may help others

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My therapist said to me today that she has a rule, that she can handle no more then 2 BPD people at a time because they are so difficult to treat. That is takes a year of DBT, help from other T's and a 24 hour hotline before they can see progress. She just can't manage more then 2.

She told me this to beat it out of my head the thinking that maybe now that i understand her disorder I could make a manageable relationship cause I know how to respond to her. Basically if it takes a team of trained professionals a year to get them to make progress, I stood 0 chance

Interesting, and thought it might help others who harboring delusions that if they only did x,y or z... they'd still be here

[tim_tom]

My therapist said to me today that she has a rule, that she can handle no more then 2 BPD people at a time because they are so difficult to treat. That is takes a year of DBT, help from other T's and a 24 hour hotline before they can see progress. She just can't manage more then 2.

She told me this to beat it out of my head the thinking that maybe now that i understand her disorder I could make a manageable relationship cause I know how to respond to her. Basically if it takes a team of trained professionals a year to get them to make progress, I stood 0 chance

Interesting, and thought it might help others who harboring delusions that if they only did x,y or z... they'd still be here

[Emelie Emelie]

Thank you for sharing this.

[blissful_camper]

There's a DBT workbook, which I think is a useful resource for anyone wanting to improve their sense of well being.  While the book is geared toward pwBPD, the workbook is intended for anyone doing inner-work. 

One of the things that kept me stuck in my r/s, was my emotions.  I was sad and confused in the r/s, and felt I couldn't alleviate my own grief.  I was trying to create stability with an unstable person who undermined my efforts.  It was an awful cycle that nearly pulled me under.  I found that the workbook offered helpful tools for reflection, and mindfulness.  I highly recommend it.  It also helped me to better understand what I had experienced in the r/s.  It's available as a Kindle download.

The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook: Practical DBT Exercises for Learning Mindfulness, Interpersonal Effectiveness, Emotion Regulation & Distress Tolerance (New Harbinger Self-Help Workbook)

[BlackandBlue]

A year of hardcore therapy just to see any progress or to be recovered? I cant see how someone could be fully recovered... .with my ex there's not a chance in hell! My therapist told me they are the most difficult people to treat and a lot of therapist want nothing to do with them because if it.

[zenwexler]

Awesome post! My therapist said something similar. Two separate therapists told me that it is essentially impossible for these people to

EVER live normal happy lives. I told him I read all the books and now understand it all better. He told me it doesn't matter. Which makes sense. I'm always growing and changing. I went nc for four months. She reached out. She was literally the exact same 4 year old. In fact one could make the argument that she was a little worse. Make no mistake about it. This is a SERIOUS disorder. Not just something we tell ourselves to help one another go to sleep. This real. They have real issues no different then a physical handicap or a concrete disease like diabetes

[kc sunshine]

My T said the same thing last week! When I told her my BPD ex was in treatment (seeing a therapist once a week), my T said uh uh, THIS is what a treatment program looks like: a team of therapists (with some dedicated to whatever symptom they might have-- e.g. eating disorder, alcohol or drug issues), a group, and a commitment to an intensive year of work that may need to be repeated several times. What a tall order. Mine did it for one round before we met, and probably is a lot better than before, but is by no means "cured."

Before she painted me black we could talk openly about BPD symptoms, etc. but once I was painted there was absolutely no possibility to talk about it or to bring up the possibility that BPD might be in play in our interactions.

[Caredverymuch]

My therapist said to me today that she has a rule, that she can handle no more then 2 BPD people at a time because they are so difficult to treat. That is takes a year of DBT, help from other T's and a 24 hour hotline before they can see progress. She just can't manage more then 2.

She told me this to beat it out of my head the thinking that maybe now that i understand her disorder I could make a manageable relationship cause I know how to respond to her. Basically if it takes a team of trained professionals a year to get them to make progress, I stood 0 chance

Interesting, and thought it might help others who harboring delusions that if they only did x,y or z... they'd still be here

These statements really assist those of us who feel the " if only" or question their expBpds  " happiness" now that they have moved onto a replacement. Bc they appear to be happier.  

And we feel this is somehow due to us.

I dont think we can truly comprehend how complex this disorder is. Look how confused so many of us have been and continue to be as a result of a BPD r/s, let alone traumatized. Therapeutic professionals must limit these patients and they are professionally trained.

My T also said to me that she had 2 clients who have been seeing her for the past four years bc they are still in the r/s with a pBPD. And experiencing great anxiety and depression.  She finished by saying that I had no idea how sick my expBPD was and although she was sorry I was very hurt at that time, she was also very glad I was no longer in the r/ s.

[freedom33]

Therapy works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't and the succesful outcome is basically to help the cope better. There is no cure. Just better coping skills. And even that can depend on the therapist and on the willingness of the pwBPD to do the hard work. Maybe a good T can help them make progress in a year or two and others can be in there for years with little progress. Also the BPD might be going in there every week and not wanting to change. Just lying their teeth out. Mine was almost 10 years in T. I don't even want to know how she was 10 years ago if indeed there was progress since. If anything she has aged (check out youtube video Woody Allen on psychoanalysis - it's really funny).  

I am not allowed to post links, so if you want to see how difficult it is for actual psychiatrists/therapists to treat BPDs google: 'Roger Lewin Borderline Patients Get At Us'.

Eye opening. You can see in there the challenges that they face and that even Ts are wondering how can you tell if they will make progress or not... .

It is largely wishful thinking that if you were doing this or that or by being stronger/harsher or softer/gentler you would have made a massive difference.  One only has power over oneself not over others. This sort of thinking is what got many of us hooked.

[merlin4926]

When you see them moving on with their new partner it's so hard not to think "I failed" if only I could have been different I could have helped. I'm an intelligent person so why can't I accept that I couldn't have ever saved him?




Bc the disorder always wins.  Its very hard to accept that.  But true.

[Caredverymuch]

When you see them moving on with their new partner it's so hard not to think "I failed" if only I could have been different I could have helped. I'm an intelligent person so why can't I accept that I couldn't have ever

Bc the disorder always wins. Its very hard to accept that. But true.

[killgore]

Therapy works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't and the succesful outcome is basically to help the cope better. There is no cure. Just better coping skills. And even that can depend on the therapist and on the willingness of the pwBPD to do the hard work. Maybe a good T can help them make progress in a year or two and others can be in there for years with little progress. Also the BPD might be going in there every week and not wanting to change. Just lying their teeth out. Mine was almost 10 years in T. I don't even want to know how she was 10 years ago if indeed there was progress since. If anything she has aged (check out youtube video Woody Allen on psychoanalysis - it's really funny).  

I am not allowed to post links, so if you want to see how difficult it is for actual psychiatrists/therapists to treat BPDs google: 'Roger Lewin Borderline Patients Get At Us'.

Eye opening. You can see in there the challenges that they face and that even Ts are wondering how can you tell if they will make progress or not... .

It is largely wishful thinking that if you were doing this or that or by being stronger/harsher or softer/gentler you would have made a massive difference.  One only has power over oneself not over others. This sort of thinking is what got many of us hooked.

Thanks for sharing this 

[hope2727]

Wow how moving. I think I really needed to hear this today.

Mine was in therapy before I met him and seemed so well and balanced and emotionally mature yup I said that emotionally mature.

Now that I have learned more about this disorder I recognize the terms he used when we met from counselling about BPD. Things like self soothing and sense of self. Yup they may never have told him he was BPD (or maybe they did and he didn't tell me) but he has certainly been speaking the language as long as I have known him.

Good to put it in perspective sometimes.

[JRav59]

This is so helpful for me to hear right now! According to my best friend, my ex (who I have completely blocked) just started splattering photos of herself with a new partner all over FB. THIS after telling me I was the love of her life and she will always love me. They started seeing each other almost immediately after I broke up with her. The messages are all lovey. This girl is stunning. The new girlfriend is praising my ex with love and affection.  These are things she got so upset at me about if there was the slightest hint of love on her FB. I felt like she was ashamed to be with me. I somehow think this girl is going to be different. Maybe I just wasn't good enough. Ugh, it sucks to really have no apology, no validation and no closure. to such a painful relationship.

[freedom33]

Mine was in therapy before I met him and seemed so well and balanced and emotionally mature yup I said that emotionally mature.

Now that I have learned more about this disorder I recognize the terms he used when we met from counselling about BPD. Things like self soothing and sense of self.

Yes my ex too seemed very emotionally mature when I met her. After 10 years she had adopted the persona of her therapist. She knew all these terms and played the role of a spiritual person and healer. That is what attracted me to her initially - not her looks. After a few weeks I started seeing cracks in the mask but disregarded them as I liked my fantasy better.

Now when with one hand she started abusing me, baiting me and blaming me, with the other she was playing the superior healer making me feel as if I was the one who was crazy and telling me to take it easy, self soothe and be kind and gentle with myself. Insidious. The last thing you want is advice, help and soothing from the cause of your suffering. It is PURE EVIL. If you read PoW stories you will also see that this technique (of intermittent reinforcement of punishment and then soothing/reward from your torturer) is used for brainwashing too. It induces a state of learned helplesness and it is highly addictive.

[Tibbles]

Thanks. I needed this post. I'm about to contact my ex about how we sell the house etc. Having to break NC is very daunting and I am sure I will have all sorts of "what if" thoughts. Hard times are coming my way and this will help me stay on track. Thanks.

[Blimblam]

Mine was in therapy before I met him and seemed so well and balanced and emotionally mature yup I said that emotionally mature.

Now that I have learned more about this disorder I recognize the terms he used when we met from counselling about BPD. Things like self soothing and sense of self.

Yes my ex too seemed very emotionally mature when I met her. After 10 years she had adopted the persona of her therapist. She knew all these terms and played the role of a spiritual person and healer. That is what attracted me to her initially - not her looks. After a few weeks I started seeing cracks in the mask but disregarded them as I liked my fantasy better.

Now when with one hand she started abusing me, baiting me and blaming me, with the other she was playing the superior healer making me feel as if I was the one who was crazy and telling me to take it easy, self soothe and be kind and gentle with myself. Insidious. The last thing you want is advice, help and soothing from the cause of your suffering. It is PURE EVIL. If you read PoW stories you will also see that this technique (of intermittent reinforcement of punishment and then soothing/reward from your torturer) is used for brainwashing too. It induces a state of learned helplesness and it is highly addictive.

My ex would do the same as well. Gas light me then when I was shook up give me advice in how to cope.  Telling me I just need to relax and stop thinking so much. Crazy making.

[Skip]

A year of hardcore therapy just to see any progress or to be recovered? I cant see how someone could be fully recovered... .with my ex there's not a chance in hell! My therapist told me they are the most difficult people to treat and a lot of therapist want nothing to do with them because if it.

I don't know what hardcore therapy is.  CBT and DBT are skills training. Its not an exorcism.  

 How does the recovery of alcoholism compare to BPD?  When I think of hardcore, I see someone locked away for weeks, detoxing.

We have had many members partners go into DBT and there is noticeable progress right away - after a few sessions.  There also tends to be ebbs and flows and some forward and backward progress.

A DBT course is typically 6-7 months. Some patients repeat parts of the course.

The number 1 predictor of recovery is the presence of a strong trusted family member/supporter.

I don't want to make this seem easy or broad brush it in the other direction. There is a broad spectrum of affliction and within that spectrum some are far harder than others.  One the positive side, we have families that have seen huge improvements after 6 week inpatient programs.

It's a challenge. A big art is that it is a relationship intensive disorder and so we can't be passive supporters - nor can the therapist.

Beating alcoholism is intensive too.

She told me this to beat it out of my head the thinking that maybe now that i understand her disorder I could make a manageable relationship cause I know how to respond to her. Basically if it takes a team of trained professionals a year to get them to make progress, I stood 0 chance

I think it is correct to say after what has transpired, going back armed with advanced communication skills is not going to change her.  Given where the relationship got to, it is a tall order to go back and erase the history.

People with BPD much prefer a fresh start over repairing a complex mess.

[hope2727]

Wow he was mirroring his therapist. I never thought of that. It is so true. He LOVES to counsel people (mostly women about their divorces). He thrives on it. Scary. So his talk of self  soothing and living in the moment without focusing on the past or future that was all a reflection. Wow. I feel like a complete fool. 

[purpleavocado]

My T said something very similar, that they are hard to work with and that it sucks the energy out of her so much that she has to limit the number she takes on.

Also, I discovered this board before I started therapy. I decided when going to therapy that I wouldn't mention that I thought my ex had BPD, but my T said within 2 sessions that it sounds like that's exactly what she has.

[tim_tom]

My T said something very similar, that they are hard to work with and that it sucks the energy out of her so much that she has to limit the number she takes on.

Also, I discovered this board before I started therapy. I decided when going to therapy that I wouldn't mention that I thought my ex had BPD, but my T said within 2 sessions that it sounds like that's exactly what she has.

Yeah, I went to mine convinced it was all my fault and blaming myself. The T repointed me at borderline during session 2 and gave me books to read. It's how I ended up here.

[gary seven]

Also the BPD might be going in there every week and not wanting to change. Just lying their teeth out.

Yup.

She (spouse w/ BPD) just got fired by therapist N+ 4 after just four weeks.  She liked this one.  I never met her.  "I just don't understand why," my wife says.

I think its the lying their teeth out. 

I took her to meet P (N+4) the other day, and she not only did she say the same thing about T (N+4), but she also lied her teeth out to the new P.

I didn't feel like confronting her on the moment b/c I realize that she will never want to change because she likes who she is.

I'm on a slow path of extrication. Don't want to live my whole life like this.

[AG]

Thank you for posting this. I am a big offender of blaming myself alot of the time then cycling back and forth over and over again to blaming my ex then myself its quite exhausting.

[tim_tom]

Thank you for posting this. I am a big offender of blaming myself alot of the time then cycling back and forth over and over again to blaming my ex then myself its quite exhausting.

imo, there is friction between your thinking mind and your emotional self. Their BPD behavior has injected poison deep into your emotional core that has corrupted it. Up is down, left is right, you've been chewed up and spit out, emotionally. You know what the way they behaved was outside of relational norms, but you've become so accustomed to being criticized, cut down and blamed that you started to believe it on a subconscious level. You don't have access to this consciously, but when it starts, elevate the thought patterns to your thinking mind. Think about all the messed up things they did, and keep doing it, distract yourself from the emotions, and push reality back into your emotional core. Make up , up again.

What i have been doing, when I start to feel my emotions take over: I repeat to myself "I was trying to have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy individual".  I consciously am aware that this is not possible. in fact, its silly of me to even try it, and that simple. And ya know what? The feelings subside, I smile and chuckle to myself, and go about my day.

[AG]

Thank you for posting this. I am a big offender of blaming myself alot of the time then cycling back and forth over and over again to blaming my ex then myself its quite exhausting.

imo, there is friction between your thinking mind and your emotional self. Their BPD behavior has injected poison deep into your emotional core that has corrupted it. Up is down, left is right, you've been chewed up and spit out, emotionally. You know what the way they behaved was outside of relational norms, but you've become so accustomed to being criticized, cut down and blamed that you started to believe it on a subconscious level. You don't have access to this consciously, but when it starts, elevate the thought patterns to your thinking mind. Think about all the messed up things they did, and keep doing it, distract yourself from the emotions, and push reality back into your emotional core. Make up , up again.

What i have been doing, when I start to feel my emotions take over: I repeat to myself "I was trying to have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy individual".  I consciously am aware that this is not possible. in fact, its silly of me to even try it, and that simple. And ya know what? The feelings subside, I smile and chuckle to myself, and go about my day.

That makes sense and thanks for the technique. How are you dealing with the anger portion of this ordeal? Like specific memories popping up that piss you off like lying cheating or whatever? How are you coping with that part?

[tim_tom]

That makes sense and thanks for the technique. How are you dealing with the anger portion of this ordeal? Like specific memories popping up that piss you off like lying cheating or whatever? How are you coping with that part?

Maybe it rationalization, or a psychotic break, but for the last few days, I can be no more angry at my dog for not being toilet trained then I can be angry at my exBPD for relationship dysfunctionality. It's her nature, all she knows and it's sad... for her

[AG]

That makes sense and thanks for the technique. How are you dealing with the anger portion of this ordeal? Like specific memories popping up that piss you off like lying cheating or whatever? How are you coping with that part?

Maybe it rationalization, or a psychotic break, but for the last few days, I can be no more angry at my dog for not being toilet trained then I can be angry at my exBPD for relationship dysfunctionality. It's her nature, all she knows and it's sad... for her

Hmm that makes sense. Like we read all of the knowledge and info on them and it is clear as day that this is what they do and I am getting angry at her for being herself. Kinda still causes a rift in my brain to grasp that because I guess I'm still thinking about it from a rational mind. Like how can you not know that lying and cheating and raging is going to hurt people. Like how can you not know 1+1=2 I mean everyone knows that. But I have read that 1+1 does not =2 to a person with BPD and I am still getting mad that it she doesn't get the math. Such a hard thing to grasp or better yet I think I grasp it but just don't accept it or have trouble accepting it or maybe refuse to accept it. Maybe its a little of all not sure though.

[tim_tom]

Hmm that makes sense. Like we read all of the knowledge and info on them and it is clear as day that this is what they do and I am getting angry at her for being herself. Kinda still causes a rift in my brain to grasp that because I guess I'm still thinking about it from a rational mind. Like how can you not know that lying and cheating and raging is going to hurt people. Like how can you not know 1+1=2 I mean everyone knows that. But I have read that 1+1 does not =2 to a person with BPD and I am still getting mad that it she doesn't get the math. Such a hard thing to grasp or better yet I think I grasp it but just don't accept it or have trouble accepting it or maybe refuse to accept it. Maybe its a little of all not sure though.

Acceptance is the key. You know it is true, reinforce it consciously so your emotional being knows it too. Healing follows, I think... talk to me in a few days... .

Understand, i keep repeating it here and to myself because I am still in this process. I feel better, but having had moment of clarity before and sliding back into despair, I know I still have work to do.

[AG]

Hmm that makes sense. Like we read all of the knowledge and info on them and it is clear as day that this is what they do and I am getting angry at her for being herself. Kinda still causes a rift in my brain to grasp that because I guess I'm still thinking about it from a rational mind. Like how can you not know that lying and cheating and raging is going to hurt people. Like how can you not know 1+1=2 I mean everyone knows that. But I have read that 1+1 does not =2 to a person with BPD and I am still getting mad that it she doesn't get the math. Such a hard thing to grasp or better yet I think I grasp it but just don't accept it or have trouble accepting it or maybe refuse to accept it. Maybe its a little of all not sure though.

Acceptance is the key. You know it is true, reinforce it consciously so your emotional being knows it too. Healing follows, I think... talk to me in a few days... .

Understand, i keep repeating it here and to myself because I am still in this process. I feel better, but having had moment of clarity before and sliding back into despair, I know I still have work to do.

Got it Thanks alot for real. Same way as they yelled at us constantly to program this stuff I need to keep saying these things back to myself to deprogram it. Makes sense good F'in stuff bro.