When does the Borderline accept that you no longer want the relationship?

[uncrx]

Last year after 3 months of being devalued and discarded, I told my exBPD gf that I was ending the relationship. The next day she approaches me and says she wants me to know that she loved me. Like a fool, I fell for it and took her back.

Almost a year later, the push/pull, crazy making games started again. I set a boundary and told her that I would not go thru the same thing as last year and said we should take a break from the relationship to allow her dome space and time to think. Three days I confirmed my suspicions and caught her lying and cheating. I left telling her that I never wanted to see or talk to her again.

That afternoon she placed a letter of apology in my mailbox saying that she was sorry and had planned in telling me everything and asked for my forgiveness. I neither responded or reacted and since then she has repeatedly attempted to triangulate me with a friend and the guy she was caught cheating with. Again, I have maintained NC and offered no response/reaction. all the while she tells everyone that she is the happiest she has ever been and that my obsession with her will never end because I am psycho!

When do they accept that you no longer want the relationship and move on with their new victim(s) and their proclaimed happy life?

[Lost23]

Great question. I'd like to know the answer myself. I actually kind of miss when she had a replacement and he was her 'soulmate' and I was just someone she regretted. Helps clear the FOG instead of this "I'm dying without you" crap I hear every few days now since "oops" replacement guy wasn't apparently the solution to her turmoil.

[uncrx]

I know the purpose of her triangulation tactics are all attempts to manipulate and control. I would have thought that my NC would have delivered the message that I now see the person she truly is and no longer want the relationship but she doesn't seem to be accepting it.

[Mutt]

I know the purpose of her triangulation tactics are all attempts to manipulate and control. I would have thought that my NC would have delivered the message that I now see the person she truly is and no longer want the relationship but she doesn't seem to be accepting it.

BPD is an attachment disorder and a mental illness. She has a distorted belief system and a different reality that you or I. I'm sorry she's not getting it. Your logic or mine doesn't necessarily apply here.

When do they accept that you no longer want the relationship and move on with their new victim(s) and their proclaimed happy life?

She may put her feelers out, it's up to us to defend our boundaries. I understand it's frustrating and confusing. She'll get the picture if you don't respond and she'll move on.

[uncrx]

Because she got caught and I ended the relationship and went NC took all of her control. I am certain this is driving her crazy so she is using these tactics to not only manipulate and gain control but to also attempt to drive me crazy. Would this be considered "projection?" ... .projecting her feelings of being out if control and going crazy onto me.

[Mutt]

Because she got caught and I ended the relationship and went NC took all of her control. I am certain this is driving her crazy so she is using these tactics to not only manipulate and gain control but to also attempt to drive me crazy. Would this be considered "projection?" ... .projecting her feelings of being out if control and going crazy onto me.

NC is a drastic measure to detach from our partners.

What she fears most is fear of abandonment, and not contacting her is not so much about control but the loss of an attachment and feeling abandoned. You can't control what someone else does, you can only control you. If your ex does X  you respond with Y. In this case not responding would be a boundary. A borderline lack boundaries on the self and don't respond well to boundaries. I understand the frustration. Think of her emotional level as being that of a young child of 2-3. A child flails against a parent's boundaries? She's flailing against your boundaries and you need to maintain boundaries of steel if you're done. She will get the message and she may return later and test them again.

all the while she tells everyone that she is the happiest she has ever been and that my obsession with her will never end because I am psycho!

No. Projection is taking a feeling or an action that we're no comfortable with and attributing that feeling on someone else.

I took an example from your first post. She may be distorting that she is happy and she is saying that you're a psycho. A borderline feels shame and guilt and need to feel good and they will project those feelings on others and feel good again. It's short term and the feelings of shame and guilt return.

So in reality, she's obsessed with you and is feeling out of sorts or crazy and she's projecting those feelings unto you. It's like playing "tag you're it!" with emotions and feelings. I hope that helps.

[Skip]

What she fears most is fear of abandonment, and not contacting her is not so much about control but the loss of an attachment and feeling abandoned.

Rejection at tis level is hard on anyone.


How many times did you two recycle?

[Infern0]

They never really accept it imo.

They can be "distracted" With someone else and vanish on you but when it goes ass upwards with the distraction then you come into their mind again and boom.

It's weird because in my opinion people with BPD are actually at their most lucid when they are without supply. And that's when they have some ability to remember you and remember the good times etc.

Thus you get painted white and the cycle can begin again.

It's up to us nons to put an end to it once and for all.  I'm still trying to figure out how to do that

[Lost23]

It's up to us nons to put an end to it once and for all.  I'm still trying to figure out how to do that

Let me know if you figure it out... .

[fred6]

What she fears most is fear of abandonment, and not contacting her is not so much about control but the loss of an attachment and feeling abandoned.

Rejection at tis level is hard on anyone.


How many times did you two recycle?

If they split you black first and then you go NC in response. How can someone feel abandoned when they actually abandoned you to begin with? 

They never really accept it imo.

They can be "distracted" With someone else and vanish on you but when it goes ass upwards with the distraction then you come into their mind again and boom.

It's weird because in my opinion people with BPD are actually at their most lucid when they are without supply. And that's when they have some ability to remember you and remember the good times etc.

Thus you get painted white and the cycle can begin again.

It's up to us nons to put an end to it once and for all.  I'm still trying to figure out how to do that

I'm not sure about that. From what I've read it depends on the pwBPD as to whether they paint white/recycle or just disappear forever. I can see no circumstance that my uxBPD would paint me white or try to recycle. She may contact me for some reason. But a recycle, that will never happen as far as I can tell.

[uncrx]

What she fears most is fear of abandonment, and not contacting her is not so much about control but the loss of an attachment and feeling abandoned.

Rejection at tis level is hard on anyone.


How many times did you two recycle?

At least once a year over our 5 year relationship.

[uncrx]

all the while she tells everyone that she is the happiest she has ever been and that my obsession with her will never end because I am psycho!

No. Projection is taking a feeling or an action that we're no comfortable with and attributing that feeling on someone else.

I took an example from your first post. She may be distorting that she is happy and she is saying that you're a psycho. A borderline feels shame and guilt and need to feel good and they will project those feelings on others and feel good again. It's short term and the feelings of shame and guilt return.

So in reality, she's obsessed with you and is feeling out of sorts or crazy and she's projecting those feelings unto you. It's like playing "tag you're it!" with emotions and feelings. I hope that helps.[/quote]
Thanks, Mutt your explanation helps.

I don't feel she has given up since she continues to try to triangulate me. She has such a dysfunctional life filled with uncertainty she is trying her best to create turmoil within my life ... .a life she dreams of having one day. Her frustration that her usual tactics aren't producing the usual response is driving her crazy.

She isn't used to this boundary of NC because it has never lasted more than a few days before each recycle. I still have compassion in my heart for her despite how she hurt me, but I do not confuse my compassion for love.

[uncrx]

I know the purpose of her triangulation tactics are all attempts to manipulate and control. I would have thought that my NC would have delivered the message that I now see the person she truly is and no longer want the relationship but she doesn't seem to be accepting it.

So should her triangulation tactics be considered evidence that she did not plan to end the relationship and hopes to recycle one day as she always has been allowed yo do? In the past LC was the only option after the relationship ended but luckily this time NC is possible. I just want to be prepared for any thing she may try to break NC.

[Mutt]

I still have compassion in my heart for her despite how she hurt me, but I do not confuse my compassion for love.

Skip made a very good point. NC and rejection is hard on anyone at this level on both sides.

Rejection at tis level is hard on anyone.

I know the purpose of her triangulation tactics are all attempts to manipulate and control. I would have thought that my NC would have delivered the message that I now see the person she truly is and no longer want the relationship but she doesn't seem to be accepting it.

So should her triangulation tactics be considered evidence that she did not plan to end the relationship and hopes to recycle one day as she always has been allowed yo do? In the past LC was the only option after the relationship ended but luckily this time NC is possible. I just want to be prepared for any thing she may try to break NC.

It's difficult to assert boundaries late in the r/s and it should be established early in the r/s. I'm not sure what you mean about the triangulation tactics as it's not something that I believe that is always intentional from a pwBPD. It's also not exclusive to persons with personality disorders. Triangulation is around us every day.

Having said that, she made feel like she is engulfed and she's leaving the primary relationship as a means to cope. Think of it as a pressure release valve and she's moved into a secondary relationship to cope from the primary one. That's a possibility, but a pwBPD act impulsively and don't think of the consequences through with the outcome of their actions, that's fact.

I understand the vigilance and the pain behind this vigilance and a NC wall. NC is a drastic tool to detach and to heal. It sounds like you are done recycling?

[uncrx]

It's difficult to assert boundaries late in the r/s and it should be established early in the r/s. I'm not sure what you mean about the triangulation tactics as it's not something that I believe that is intentional from a pwBPD and it's not exclusive to persons with personality disorders. Triangulation is around us every day.

Having said that, she made feel like she is engulfed and she's leaving the primary relationship as a means to cope. Think of it as a pressure release valve and she's moved into a secondary relationship to cope from the primary one. That's a possibility, but a pwBPD act impulsively and don't think the consequences through with their actions, that's fact.

I understand the vigilance and the pain behind this vigilance and a NC wall. NC is a drastic tool to detach and to heal. It sounds like you are done recycling?[/quote]
Mutt ... .You're right that boundaries should have been established and maintained in the beginning of the relationship. It just seems that she one day she is apologizing saying that there was no excuse for what she had done and asking for me to forgive her then using a friend to let me know that her and the new guy were now together and that she is happiest she has ever been.

All seem to be attempts to get me to break NC and re-engage in the relationship ... .but for what purpose?

I read another post that said that is wasn't as important to understand why they cheated but to instead understand why they thought that cheating would help the relationship.

[uncrx]

You're also absolutely correct about them acting impulsively without any thought of the consequences. She acted in a similar way last year. Before I caught her, I had told her that I had heard rumors about her and this guy and she adamantly denied everything. By catching her lying/cheating I exposed everything about her that she had worked to hide from me and took her power and control ... .thus the reason for her desperate, impulsive and confusing actions after I ended the relationship.

[Mutt]

Mutt ... .You're right that boundaries should have been established and maintained in the beginning of the relationship. It just seems that she one day she is apologizing saying that there was no excuse for what she had done and asking for me to forgive her then using a friend to let me know that her and the new guy were now together and that she is happiest she has ever been.

All seem to be attempts to get me to break NC and re-engage in the relationship ... .but for what purpose?

I read another post that said that is wasn't as important to understand why they cheated but to instead understand why they thought that cheating would help the relationship.

I would like to say that I'm happy that you are here with members that understand and can help. I'm also sorry for the pain that she caused uncrx.

Mutt ... .You're right that boundaries should have been established and maintained in the beginning of the relationship.

I'm guilty of this as well. We should have, and we can't change the past. Knowing what I know now, boundaries are important early as it's difficult to assert later. Your ex is not used to it. Think of it as arrested emotional development. She doesn't understand boundaries and she's been used to floating or no boundaries for awhile? She's pushing against your boundaries.

It just seems that she one day she is apologizing saying that there was no excuse for what she had done and asking for me to forgive her then using a friend to let me know that her and the new guy were now together and that she is happiest she has ever been.

She may very well mean that she is sorry. Let's look at her being happy.

Do you recall when you fell in love with her? The honeymoon?

The disorder is triggered by intimacy. You experienced push / pull behavior in the r/s? Fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. Stay away and come here. A borderline has unstable interpersonal relationships.

She was likely acting out in the last 5 years? Disproportionate anger and silent treatments for example? From my experience, I can say that my partner was not coping. Feelings of emptiness and not knowing who she truly is. This happened over a long period of time and it's different for every person with the disorder. Some cycle longer and some shorter.

Her happiness is returning back to her emotional baseline of happiness for now. The same feelings of emptiness return is she is not in therapy and committed to working on herself.

I'm sorry to say this but she's in a honeymoon. She feels good. She also fears abandonment and she may not be sure about the new relationship and that's why she's re-engaging. It's a possibility, above all you know her best from anyone else on the boards.

You recycled 5 times, this started last year, is this the first time she had someone else in the picture in 5 years?

[uncrx]

Mutt ... .You're right that boundaries should have been established and maintained in the beginning of the relationship. It just seems that she one day she is apologizing saying that there was no excuse for what she had done and asking for me to forgive her then using a friend to let me know that her and the new guy were now together and that she is happiest she has ever been.

All seem to be attempts to get me to break NC and re-engage in the relationship ... .but for what purpose?

I read another post that said that is wasn't as important to understand why they cheated but to instead understand why they thought that cheating would help the relationship.

I would like to say that I'm happy that you are here with members that understand and can help. I'm also sorry for the pain that she caused uncrx.

Mutt ... .You're right that boundaries should have been established and maintained in the beginning of the relationship.

I'm guilty of this as well. We should have, and we can't change the past. Knowing what I know now, boundaries are important early as it's difficult to assert later. Your ex is not used to it. Think of it as arrested emotional development. She doesn't understand boundaries and she's been used to floating or no boundaries for awhile? She's pushing against your boundaries.

It just seems that she one day she is apologizing saying that there was no excuse for what she had done and asking for me to forgive her then using a friend to let me know that her and the new guy were now together and that she is happiest she has ever been.

She may very well mean that she is sorry. Let's look at her being happy.

Do you recall when you fell in love with her? The honeymoon?

The disorder is triggered by intimacy. You experienced push / pull behavior in the r/s? Fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. Stay away and come here. A borderline has unstable interpersonal relationships.

She was likely acting out in the last 5 years? Disproportionate anger and silent treatments for example? From my experience, I can say that my partner was not coping. Feelings of emptiness and not knowing who she truly is. This happened over a long period of time and it's different for every person with the disorder. Some cycle longer and some shorter.

Her happiness is returning back to her emotional baseline of happiness for now. The same feelings of emptiness return is she is not in therapy and committed to working on herself.

I'm sorry to say this but she's in a honeymoon. She feels good. She also fears abandonment and she may not be sure about the new relationship and that's why she's re-engaging. It's a possibility, above all you know her best from anyone else on the boards.

You recycled 5 times, this started last year, is this the first time she had someone else in the picture in 5 years?

It is the first time that I am aware that there was another intimate person, but this guy has always been the reason for many arguments so she knew that I did not trust or care for him.

I truly do not think she intended to end our relationship but was going to lie  and keep the secondary relationship for times when her life and the priomary relationship became too stressful.

In our five years we have never been NC for longer than a few days and feel that all of her actions now are intended to break that NC and get me to re-engage so she can gain control.

[Mutt]

What are your feelings uncrx? Angry, sad, hurt?

Are you finished with the recycles?

[uncrx]

What are your feelings uncrx? Angry, sad, hurt?

Are you finished with the recycles?

Really no feelings just anxiety when I hear about her actions and comments and attempt to figure out her intentions based on my knowledge of her and our relationship.

I don't feel that I could ever trust her again so it's over as far as concerned. I just wish she would just go on with her life as I am trying to do.

[Mutt]

I just wish she would just go on with her life as I am trying to do.

I can relate with the anxiety and figuring out what we went through. I think it's important. You have a lot of questions and that's normal.

It took me awhile to accept that she is mentally ill. At one point early in the detachment I told myself 3x a day she is mentally ill. I loved her and I was in a sort of denial that she was sick. By any means, I'm not implying that you are in denial.

You are looking at this in the perspective of logic with a person that is mentally ill and has a distorted belief system. She's simply wired differently.

I suggest sticking to NC and take time to heal and detach, if you look at the right hand side ---------------------->



You will find steps and lessons that will help you with your journey to healing. Attachment leads to suffering. Detachment leads to freedom. Hang in there.

[uncrx]

Thanks Mutt!

[fred6]

I read another post that said that is wasn't as important to understand why they cheated but to instead understand why they thought that cheating would help the relationship.

The only thing the cheating helped was their fix to get back to the honeymoon phase. I honestly believe that's what these people crave. Once the honeymoon is over, they can't handle boring mundane everyday life. They can't be alone and they get bored and restless easily. Perfect storm for cheating... .

[uncrx]

I know the purpose of her triangulation tactics are all attempts to manipulate and control. I would have thought that my NC would have delivered the message that I now see the person she truly is and no longer want the relationship but she doesn't seem to be accepting it.

So should her triangulation tactics be considered evidence that she did not plan to end the relationship and hopes to recycle one day as she always has been allowed yo do? In the past LC was the only option after the relationship ended but luckily this time NC is possible. I just want to be prepared for any thing she may try to break NC.

Question ... .Is triangulation a tactic a borderline would use in attempt to maintain a relation with the nonBPD partner?

[Mutt]

Triangulation is like a 3 legged stool. You remove one of the legs. The stool collapses.

[uncrx]

Triangulation is like a 3 legged stool. You remove one of the legs. The stool collapses.

So an attempt to stabilizei or maintain the primary relationship when broken or damaged?

[Mutt]

Triangulation is like a 3 legged stool. You remove one of the legs. The stool collapses.

So an attempt to stabilizei or maintain the primary relationship when broken or damaged?

I'm sorry uncrx. I'm confused. She may have shifted to a secondary relationship to cope from the primary, in this case that would be you (primary) it's a possibility. Triangles are for us to cope. I think that you said you are done with the recycles?

Are you wanting for her to come back to you? If you are choosing to disengage, you can remove yourself from the triangulation and not engage. Once that the r/s is over with the next guy, she'll move on to someone else if you maintain your boundaries. Here's a little more on Triangulation:

What does triangulation mean?

Triangulation is an often misunderstood term on this site.  Triangulation as coined by Murray Bowen MD is the “process whereby a two-party relationship that is experiencing tension will naturally involve a third party to reduce tension” (Bobes & Rothman, 2002).

Simply put, when a two-person relationship becomes unstable the individuals will tolerate only a small amount of tension before they involve a third person. The resulting triangle can hold much more tension because the tension can shift around the three relationships.

Bowen's observations are incredible.  We all do this.  Triangles often help us cope.

Sometimes, however, triangulation can cause more turmoil in the relationship, causing further communication difficulties and conflict. According to Bowen''s Theory, a triangle creates an ‘odd man out,’ which is a very difficult position for individuals to tolerate. Anxiety generated by anticipating or being the odd one out is a huge force in triangles.

In calm periods, two people become comfortably close "insiders" and the third person is an uncomfortable "outsider." If tensions increase, insiders more actively exclude the outsider and/or the outsider may work to get closer to one of the insiders. If the tension is too much for one triangle to contain, it spreads to a series of "interlocking" triangles.

A classic example of triangulation is a mother telling her son that his father is treating her badly, rather than facing her husband directly and resolving the conflict. And while this may initially solve the mothers anxiety, the triangulation may create issues in the relationship between the son and the father where the mother takes sides - in effect, there are now two conflicts being triangulated among the parties.

According to Bowen, these three part relationships (triangles) have at least four possible outcomes which are as follows - 2 are good and 2 are bad:

(1) A stable pair can become destabilized by a third person;

(2) a stable pair can also be destabilized by the removal of the third person (an example would be a child leaving home and no longer available for triangulation);

(3) an unstable pair can be stabilized by the addition of a third person (an example would be a conflictual marriage becoming more harmonious after the birth of a child; and

(4) an unstable pair being stabilized by the removal of a third person (an example would be conflict is reduced by the removal of a third person who takes sides).

The triangulation concept is one of eight parts of Bowen's family systems theory: www.thebowencenter.org/pages/concepttri.html.  Bowen's point is that triangulation is occurring all the time - we are all involved in triangles - some good, some bad.

Getting Out  For the purpose of conflict resolution, it's helpful to understand triangulation and to avoid it.  Generally speaking, the first step for getting out of the triangle once you are in it is to identify the original source of the tension or problem and deal with it and not get all caught up the additional issues created by the triangulation.

The way to avoid creating triangles is to be self aware and not be lured by the immediate gratification that they offer.  

The Karpman Triangle further explained the conflict dynamics that can develop in triangulations.  Karpman identified that polarized roles of the participants emerge as one person assumes the role of victim.  He also explained that the roles often shift around in time increasing the conflict among the 3 parties. Staying out of the drama generally means not reacting in kind to the polarized view of the victim or embracing the polarized role in which you are cast. Stay centered. Karpman is explained here: Karpman Triangle.  

Misconceptions  Some members think of "triangulation" as a dysfunctional BPD behavior perpetrated on them by a person with BPD - and why not - this is how we see triangles when we are in them and the '"odd man out" . Seeing it this way is exactly the opposite of what we want to do to end the drama.

Triangles are all around us. This was Bowen's point.  And while it is true that some triangulation can be dysfunctional - triangulation is most often functional or benign.  

[uncrx]

According to Bowen, these three part relationships (triangles) have at least four possible outcomes which are as follows - 2 are good and 2 are bad:

(1) A stable pair can become destabilized by a third person;

This is what I feel is the outcome of my exBPD gf's triangulation attempt with the other guy following no response to her letter of apology. Obviously it is tortuous for me but just think she is trying to provoke me to break NC by stepping into the triangle and therefore re-engage into the relationship.