stuck in Purgatory

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So waif is back in regular contact with me. We are texting daily and talking on the phone a lot and she's been asking to see me, which I'm kind of stalling on.

But here's the thing.  She's still with my replacement.

I know from mutual friends that things are not going well there, he is a drug addict and treats her very poorly ,and she has been telling people that I was the love of her life and that she made a mistake.  But she's still saying she can't leave my replacement.

Her flatmate doesn't know she's BPD but she came to see me and asked if I could talk to her because she's extremely depressed about everything and she's becoming unstable again.

I didn't really know what to say.

I would certainly like to give things another go,  but a few things need to happen first and foremost the replacement obviously has to go. And I mean completely.  I'm not having him back in the friendzone winding her up and trying to weasel his way back in with his cries for sympathy.

My life is getting back on track,  I'm not 100% but I've been back in the gym and I'm getting there.

Her friend told me she's really hurting and confused as to what has happened and what she is doing but she won't get help and she refuses to leave the replacement so that we could rekindle.

I want xxxxx back i love him,  but I can't lose xxxxx he really needs me.

It's also upsetting her friend because she's a really good person and she is doing her best but doesn't understand the issue fully. She actually started crying in front of me asking what went wrong and why she is doing this. I just didn't even know where to start so now I'm comforting her friend who is getting to breaking point

I dunno what to do. I can tell that trouble is brewing.  She's back in the same state she was when she ended up overdosing last time.

I've had the conversation so many times and it just goes round and round.

What do I do?

I want her back,  I'm willing to try but I can't live in limbo forever.  She needs to make a decision.

[Infern0]

So waif is back in regular contact with me. We are texting daily and talking on the phone a lot and she's been asking to see me, which I'm kind of stalling on.

But here's the thing.  She's still with my replacement.

I know from mutual friends that things are not going well there, he is a drug addict and treats her very poorly ,and she has been telling people that I was the love of her life and that she made a mistake.  But she's still saying she can't leave my replacement.

Her flatmate doesn't know she's BPD but she came to see me and asked if I could talk to her because she's extremely depressed about everything and she's becoming unstable again.

I didn't really know what to say.

I would certainly like to give things another go,  but a few things need to happen first and foremost the replacement obviously has to go. And I mean completely.  I'm not having him back in the friendzone winding her up and trying to weasel his way back in with his cries for sympathy.

My life is getting back on track,  I'm not 100% but I've been back in the gym and I'm getting there.

Her friend told me she's really hurting and confused as to what has happened and what she is doing but she won't get help and she refuses to leave the replacement so that we could rekindle.

I want xxxxx back i love him,  but I can't lose xxxxx he really needs me.

It's also upsetting her friend because she's a really good person and she is doing her best but doesn't understand the issue fully. She actually started crying in front of me asking what went wrong and why she is doing this. I just didn't even know where to start so now I'm comforting her friend who is getting to breaking point

I dunno what to do. I can tell that trouble is brewing.  She's back in the same state she was when she ended up overdosing last time.

I've had the conversation so many times and it just goes round and round.

What do I do?

I want her back,  I'm willing to try but I can't live in limbo forever.  She needs to make a decision.

[Mutt]

It's her decision to make. Set a clear and firm boundary that replacement needs to vamoose and that you are done if he comes back, or she cheats and stick to it. No floating boundaries as she'll know she can take advantage of you and exploit it.

Don't rescue the waif. There's no need to walk into a Karpmann Drama Triangle as rescuer. I don't explain exes behaviors to family / friends because they don't understand and it's not my duty to explain.

It's your exe that put herself into this position and I wouldn't recommend parenting or fixing things for her. She needs to look after herself.

[ReluctantSurvivor]

I think what Mutt says is spot on.

I don't think my ex will come back but if it occured there would be a list of terms she would have to fulfill for me to consider it.

1) We would have to have a serious discussion about what would be different in round two that would make it work.

2) We would have to do some couples therapy.

3) She would have to commit to long term solo therapy.

4) She would have to take ownership of the abusive way in which she ended the r/s.

If these things were done then I would be open to trying again.  Anything less would not show enough commitment for me to take a risk again.

[Turkish]

I think what Mutt says is spot on.

I don't think my ex will come back but if it occured there would be a list of terms she would have to fulfill for me to consider it.

1) We would have to have a serious discussion about what would be different in round two that would make it work.

2) We would have to do some couples therapy.

3) She would have to commit to long term solo therapy.

4) She would have to take ownership of the abusive way in which she ended the r/s.

If these things were done then I would be open to trying again.  Anything less would not show enough commitment for me to take a risk again.

I mulled conditions like this over in my mind during the few weeks I threw myself into perhaps working it out with my Ex, though she had hardly lessened contact with my replacement. Our r/s was over, I knew that, but I had to try. She grudgingly tried, too. Just a little.

Then I realized that with all of those conditions, it would be a more loaded r/s than ever, even more Father-daughter, which she may have wanted to gain value for herself. I asked myself, "do I really want this? To struggle for who knows how many years to keep a person who was looking for any excuse to flee?" So despite the words of my T who said, "these things usually take a little while to die off," I technically ended our r/s when I caught them still texting. I realized I was worth more than what I had thought. In a sick way, I think she respected me for it. She needed me to make the adult decision, so I did. Not for her, however, but for me (and our kids).

[patientandclear]

Here's something that I've come to be more and more bothered by:

Let's say this person whom we loved, whom we love, but who has gone off meanwhile and made someone else feel all special and unique and wonderful, then throws that person over and returns to us.   What about that other person and how she or he was used?

I mean, it's great to be chosen and all.  But how is it OK that someone else is now being treated just as we were -- special one day, unneeded the next, as if the feelings and the bond don't matter ... .?

When my ex made gestures in the direction of reuniting, it no longer worked for me, because of the trail of bodies in his wake.  How could I believe any more that I was special or unique, as opposed to just flavor of the month?  Maybe the other person was rejected because she had a moment of integrity and tried to protect herself or tried to differentiate herself from him in some important way ... .and all he has to do is wrap it up in the mantle of "actually Patientandclear, it was you all along, YOU are the most special one," and I'm going to assist him in leaving this other person by the side of the road?

I dunno.  Sorry to muse aloud on your string Infern0.  You share a lot of tough introspection and I respect your internal process around this.  It's just that whenever we write about "setting boundaries" that really involve the discarding of another person, I wonder about the inherent value of what we would then have.  Somehow I can no longer see my ex and our relationship in the golden light I once did, even if I wanted to, because of the way he uses other human beings, even if for the moment I was the chosen one.

[ReluctantSurvivor]

Turkish and Patient, you both make very good points.  I suppose even considering reconcilliation is due to me falling back into the bargaining stage of grieving.  I still don't know which way I am going.  One minute I am determined to cut my losses and move on, the next I desire nothing more that another shot at making things work.  There is a trail of bodies before me, I should really take that to heart.  What I struggle with is that the break was not malicious.  There was no cheating, no destruction of property, no smear campaign and the resolution of separating assets and bills has been handled rationally.  The fact that I am unable to easily divorce myself from someone who chose to self destruct instead of communicating says something about me. 

  Do I really want to go back in to a r/s that requires serious work?  Would I be better off starting a new r/s or just being alone?   I still can't answer these questions and so I am still a little lost.

  As it stands reconcilliation isn't even on the table so I just have to focus on me and try to keep these other hopes down to a low roar.

[Mutt]

You share a lot of tough introspection and I respect your internal process around this.  It's just that whenever we write about "setting boundaries" that really involve the discarding of another person, I wonder about the inherent value of what we would then have.

Hi patientandclear,

I'm having difficulties with what you mean by setting boundaries and compassion for the new partners.

Setting boundaries isn't trying to control what someone else does, but putting a rule on yourself. Is this acceptable to me? If your ex does Y you respond and react by doing X.

I understand that you're worried about his wave of victims and I just don't quite get where setting a boundary on you fits?

I'm sensing that you're worried about him and what's going to happen to others? In the context with my ex and the new bf, yes I felt compassion knowing what my ex is like.

At the end of the day, the man has no boundaries and walked into my marriage. Those were his actions, his choices. Not a choice I'd make but it is what it is. You play with fire you're gonna get burned. Hopefully he learns some very valuable life lessons, it's his journey and his path. Not one for myself to worry about.

In the context of Infern0's drug dealer exes bf, he made his choices and the consequences of said choices are his.

It's your partners journey now, you have your own. I think you and I are talking about different things. Compassion vs boundaries.

[Infern0]

My exes replacement did not respect me,  as a result he gets none in return. The fact that he's a degenerate compounds this.

I have decided to basically go about my business and see what happens.  I spoke to another mutual friend today who said that he saw her and she looked the worst he's ever seen her in terms of the eating disorder,  and just looking tired and worn down. I know she's having a lot of problems right now.

I will see how it pans out. I'm willing to try,  but it needs to be a two way thing.  Personally I think my replacement isn't going to be around too much longer. Once he's gone maybe we try again. In the meantime I'm not ruling out meeting someone new or whatever.

[patientandclear]

Mutt, what I'm saying has little to do with worrying about the "replacement."  (I really don't like that term, as the hard truth is, we ourselves were almost all "replacements" too.  In the words of Vanessa Williams in Elmo In Grouchland, "it's all about your point of view."

What I'm saying is that the idea that our exes can qualify to get back with us by discarding another person seems weird to me.  I was reacting to the idea of "I'm setting the boundary that I won't be close to her until she brutally discards another human being," which has got to mean she is just using that other human (the "replacement".  My point is -- what does that say about her?  Or any of our exes?  Why doesn't it filter into our view of these people for whom we developed feelings of love before we realized (in most cases) that they can be so cruel to others whose lives they acted like they wanted to share?

[Mutt]

Mutt, what I'm saying has little to do with worrying about the "replacement."  (I really don't like that term, as the hard truth is, we ourselves were almost all "replacements" too.  In the words of Vanessa Williams in Elmo In Grouchland, "it's all about your point of view."

What I'm saying is that the idea that our exes can qualify to get back with us by discarding another person seems weird to me.  I was reacting to the idea of "I'm setting the boundary that I won't be close to her until she brutally discards another human being," which has got to mean she is just using that other human (the "replacement".  My point is -- what does that say about her?  Or any of our exes?  Why doesn't it filter into our view of these people for whom we developed feelings of love before we realized (in most cases) that they can be so cruel to others whose lives they acted like they wanted to share?

Hi patientandclear,

I apologize. I misunderstood.

(I don't like the term replacement or discarding as well. I think both sound macabre)

My exe sort of has a reason, she's disordered.

I think a better question is, what does it say about us?

[patientandclear]

Yes, that's another way of asking what I'm asking.  What does it say about us that we want to be with someone who would treat another person that way?

And even more so: what does it say about us if we would ask our desired partners to please treat another person so brutally?

[FoolishMan]

Yes, that's another way of asking what I'm asking.  What does it say about us that we want to be with someone who would treat another person that way?

And even more so: what does it say about us if we would ask our desired partners to please treat another person so brutally?

Great posts in this thread. My ex has been stalking me after some recent events, I have not responded because I feel the same as you do; I'm not special to her and that she chooses to discard new guy for me is no reason to go back with her. I miss some stuff about her but there is more that disgusts me and overall I'm repulsed by her and myself when I was with her.