I'm not crazy in the interpretation of this message

[Artisan]

(many of us try to make sense of things, here is why you never ask the BPDx)

It starts with her message:

"Why do you need to make sense of things? Sometimes things happen and there's no clear explanation until we move on to new situations. Have you always had underlying anxiety? How do you feel awkward with women and people? You need attention, love, support and connection. If we're not going to be together then you need to seek out a community and partnership too that warms your heart."

I respond:

"Understanding is the thing that I Needed to feel safe. I do not understand the dynamics, I do not understand why things were said or done or accusations made, it makes no sense to me.

I have needed your help to understand you. And when I have asked for it, it has come across wrong.

At one point, I was reading a yoga book to learn about your style of yoga and have some basis for conversing with you.

You became angry with me for that.

Yet whatever it is that triggers you, this 'cause' of things ... .where you once told me to go read a book on Attachment Theory ... .I needed your explanation, your words, your communication ... .and not a book.

I needed your support to make sense of things. And when I would ask you'd feel shamed or guilted, and all I was trying to do was learn.

It has been my failing in communication, with words that would raise your resistances, that seemed like pointing fingers yet that were intense questions and a need for comprehension to make sense of a bewildering situation.

Without making sense of it, how could I relate to you or anyone when I feel as if it was all my fault and that I'm a broken, abusive half-man? Why would I ever inflict myself on someone if thats how I am going to be seen? I just don't get it."

She responds :

"I really don't know what to say. It seems like the memories you're expressing in the thoughts above are viewing me from the lens of a heartless human who lacks compassion. My memories of the situation are much more about the attempts I made to connect and be real and honest and promote deeper intimacy in sharing. To me it was about being real and honest. Not threatening and fearful of trust and loyalty."


I swear she called me a heartless human being with no compassion. And when I asked her, she denied it! It's right there in the freakin' email!

Am I nuts?

This is the kind of stuff I had to deal with all the time. And the NC isn't working right now b/c we have a mutual design client.

[SickofMe]

I think she meant to say through not from.

She messed up her metaphor.

[Artisan]

I think she meant to say through not from.

She messed up her metaphor.

yes, she did ... .and the meaning is pretty clear, imo. Am I just being over-sensitive?

[Fluff]

I think she wrote it the wrong way too, she meant that you described her as a human who lacks compassion and then goes on to say she was compassionate.

[Artisan]

Peachy.

Stuff like this happened constantly. Miscommunication.

To me, she said "you are viewing me through the lens of a heartless human with no compassion."

Who looks through lenses? The person that wears them ... .the person who does the viewing.

[enlighten me]

My exexgf said something very similar to me. She went on about how much she had opened up to me and tried to get me to understand how she felt. She never did this. She would start and then go into a tirade about how selfish/ heartless/ uncaring etc etc. Whatever it took to to divert the conversation. I think because she started to say sonething then she somehow thought she had explained it rather than avoiding it.

[Fluff]

We need a new language that can't be missunderstood. Why did she have to be talking about lenses looking this way and that way anyhow... meh, communication. Too difficult...

[guy4caligirl]

Absolutely BPD response Wow.

They think that we only see the bad in them No empathy ,  no remorse no feelings nothing they are always in denial always .

Mine told me she was born with empathy and will dye with it Oh yeah !

And she never lies .

She replace me three days latter .

My friend join the club you are not the only one that heard that before , they always want to be the mother Marry in the relationship but they're never are .

She is trying to say it's not her fault it's yours but I say no it's hers I feel your pain.  

[Blimblam]

Lol yes, the infamous BPD word trickery.

It is amazing stuff really. The other day I listened to some YouTube videos on mind control tactics and nlp. I realized my ex was sort of a natural at all that stuff and is why a lot of her abuse was so crazy making.  The thing is I am not sure of her level of awareness if the tactics she was employing, I think it was mostly the defense mechanisms from the disorder twisting things.

And yes she called you a heartless human but she was also projecting and putting herself in victim mode in a detached way.  It is exactly the type of crap that drove me insane.

You stated you needed her to understand her. The issue is she needed you to understand her. The disorder has you twisted up in fog.  The illusion is that you need her to understand you.

This might be a unconventional tool but I find that it works.  It is based on the expression namaste or recognize the you that is I. First re read the statement and replace the I and me with you and vice versa.  Also read the statement backwards. This will give you four versions of the same message.  In the backwards writing you may find the need to change punctuation and flip the grammar slightly.

Also when you write "needed" she might find this triggering and confusing.  It is sort of like you saying you need her but you don't need her anymore but you still need her. It is passively accusatory so the detached protector comes into play. The key word is detached. Detaching from anything to bring her shame because it has been triggered, so she subconsciously attached the shame to you and placed herself in the victim role. I found the detached protector confusing as heck because she could be sweet yet accusatory at the same time and sinse her shame was triggered it would drive her to find an outlet for releasing her shame.

[DangIthurts]

its like I'm back in it reading this haha... You seek out clearer communication calmly, and they just flip it right on you like its a bad thing and you end up having to not only defend yourself, but then prove to them that you are not whatever it is they just called you or think of you.

Lol yes, the infamous BPD word trickery.

It is amazing stuff really. The other day I listened to some YouTube videos on mind control tactics and nlp. I realized my ex was sort of a natural at all that stuff and is why a lot of her abuse was so crazy making.  The thing is I am not sure of her level of awareness if the tactics she was employing, I think it was mostly the defense mechanisms from the disorder twisting things.

And yes she called you a heartless human but she was also projecting and putting herself in victim mode in a detached way.  It is exactly the type of crap that drove me insane.

You stated you needed her to understand her. The issue is she needed you to understand her. The disorder has you twisted up in fog.  The illusion is that you need her to understand you.

This might be a unconventional tool but I find that it works.  It is based on the expression namaste or recognize the you that is I. First re read the statement and replace the I and me with you and vice versa.  Also read the statement backwards. This will give you four versions of the same message.  In the backwards writing you may find the need to change punctuation and flip the grammar slightly.

Also when you write "needed" she might find this triggering and confusing.  It is sort of like you saying you need her but you don't need her anymore but you still need her. It is passively accusatory so the detached protector comes into play. The key word is detached. Detaching from anything to bring her shame because it has been triggered, so she subconsciously attached the shame to you and placed herself in the victim role. I found the detached protector confusing as heck because she could be sweet yet accusatory at the same time and sinse her shame was triggered it would drive her to find an outlet for releasing her shame.

I agree... I don't think they're aware they're doing it. I think its like you said a defense mechanism that they've been using for a lifetime to get out of whatever situation they've got themselves trapped in.

Yeah reading his responses I could tell he'd probably trigger some kind of deflection/ anger in her... Kinda odd now that I'm removed and replaying it, how I can pick up on what I said that I now know contributed to setting my ex off, so reading this I can see exactly what would have prompted my ex to become defense and get protective of herself.

[Mutt]

She responds :

"I really don't know what to say. It seems like the memories you're expressing in the thoughts above are viewing me from the lens of a heartless human who lacks compassion. My memories of the situation are much more about the attempts I made to connect and be real and honest and promote deeper intimacy in sharing. To me it was about being real and honest. Not threatening and fearful of trust and loyalty."

My take. There's some feelings of victimization from her part and she's making it sound like you're the persecutor. She's saying that you think she lacks heart and is compassionless.

If you look at the last line the same victim / persecutor role is there again. She's telegraphing to me ( I could be wrong ) she's victimized.

Are there members that see victim?

Artisan, what's your goal? I can give a pointer to communicate in a way that she feels validated and it makes it smoother to understand each other.

[Infared]

(many of us try to make sense of things, here is why you never ask the BPDx)

It starts with her message:

"Why do you need to make sense of things? Sometimes things happen and there's no clear explanation until we move on to new situations. Have you always had underlying anxiety? How do you feel awkward with women and people? You need attention, love, support and connection. If we're not going to be together then you need to seek out a community and partnership too that warms your heart."

I respond:

"Understanding is the thing that I Needed to feel safe. I do not understand the dynamics, I do not understand why things were said or done or accusations made, it makes no sense to me.

I have needed your help to understand you. And when I have asked for it, it has come across wrong.

At one point, I was reading a yoga book to learn about your style of yoga and have some basis for conversing with you.

You became angry with me for that.

Yet whatever it is that triggers you, this 'cause' of things ... .where you once told me to go read a book on Attachment Theory ... .I needed your explanation, your words, your communication ... .and not a book.

I needed your support to make sense of things. And when I would ask you'd feel shamed or guilted, and all I was trying to do was learn.

It has been my failing in communication, with words that would raise your resistances, that seemed like pointing fingers yet that were intense questions and a need for comprehension to make sense of a bewildering situation.

Without making sense of it, how could I relate to you or anyone when I feel as if it was all my fault and that I'm a broken, abusive half-man? Why would I ever inflict myself on someone if thats how I am going to be seen? I just don't get it."

She responds :

"I really don't know what to say. It seems like the memories you're expressing in the thoughts above are viewing me from the lens of a heartless human who lacks compassion. My memories of the situation are much more about the attempts I made to connect and be real and honest and promote deeper intimacy in sharing. To me it was about being real and honest. Not threatening and fearful of trust and loyalty."


I swear she called me a heartless human being with no compassion. And when I asked her, she denied it! It's right there in the freakin' email!

Am I nuts?

This is the kind of stuff I had to deal with all the time. And the NC isn't working right now b/c we have a mutual design client.

Number one... .whenever anyone says: "you are being too sensitive"... I will show you a bully. Straight up.

I lived through this again and again:

On Monday she says the chair is green.

On Tuesday she says the chair is red.

On Wednesday she says the chair is green and that she never said it was red.

On Friday she admits that she knew the chair was green all along and that she had said it was red on Tuesday. Oh... and she did nothing wrong and there is no need for her to apologize.

There is NO WAY this man can have a loving, connected normal relationship with that person. No way. It just is not possible.

[Mutt]

I lived through this again and again:

On Monday she says the chair is green.

On Tuesday she says the chair is red.

On Wednesday she says the chair is green and that she never said it was red.

On Friday she admits that she knew the chair was green all along and that she had said it was red on Tuesday. Oh... and she did nothing wrong and there is no need for her to apologize.

There is NO WAY this man can have a loving, connected normal relationship with that person. No way. It just is not possible.

I understand it's frustrating. Altering reality. Dissociation. A goal can be to become indifferent.

The same advice for Artisan and the ex's feelings of victimization. It's confusing and there's a reason why they're not aware of. Read between the lines by understanding how the disorder works.

[Blimblam]

She responds :

"I really don't know what to say. It seems like the memories you're expressing in the thoughts above are viewing me from the lens of a heartless human who lacks compassion. My memories of the situation are much more about the attempts I made to connect and be real and honest and promote deeper intimacy in sharing. To me it was about being real and honest. Not threatening and fearful of trust and loyalty."

My take. There's some feelings of victimization from her part and she's making it sound like you're the persecutor. She's saying that you think she lacks heart and is compassionless.

If you look at the last line the same victim / persecutor role is there again. She's telegraphing to me ( I could be wrong ) she's victimized.

Are there members that see victim?

Artisan, what's your goal? I can give a pointer to communicate in a way that she feels validated and it makes it smoother to understand each other.

Yes, I see victim.  I agree that she implied he sees her as a heartless person but she worded it as he is the heartless person and I do not see that as a mistake at all. I don't think she is conciously aware that she made that symantic "mistake" so if he confronts her she will legitimately say she didn't mean it that way. Then she gets to be the victim of his "unfounded accusations" If he agrees with her it still plants that accusation in his subconscious that he is the problem.  I see it as a example of how projective and introjective identification play out when dealing witph a pwBPD.  This type of communication is taught in neuro linguistic programming and has a label for it I am not sure of.  

I used to see this as gas lighting but I don't think it is intentional all the time. I think innitially it's not untill she gets triggered to go into persecuter stance and because of cognitive dissonance sadistically enjoys it.

Also I think if you present yourself that you are the problem you are working on yourself and accept blame she may get triggered into nurturing parent rescuer stance.

[Artisan]

Well, the analysis of her aside ... .

My email was in alignment, nothing outlandish there? No blaming? No Projection?

Trying to own my stuff, and express my attempt to understand her?

Was _I_ unclear?

And yes, I see what you mean about being a victim ... .does simply asking these kinds of questions come across as violent or abusive or something?

In other news, she has started dating ... .meaning she has moved on.