What Have I Learned

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

After I found out about the BPD with the ex it was too late as she had already started a third affair that I found out about a few days after literally, that close to figuring out what it was and finding that we could get through this and then oh I'm sleeping around now... . great.  I came to this site looking for some type of support group and many of you granted that for me of which I can appreciate to no end.

I read all of the lessons in the leaving board as in the scope of what I examined from the disorder and the relationship I was in, I realized that there was very little chance for recovery.  I went away from the board for awhile, only reading the lessons and trying to move on with life in doing other things, however I do want to provide some general feedback and I feel this is a fine place to do that since its the board I was usually on.

My current state of mind is a bit of anger based upon a ridiculous text message request yesterday and a sense of freedom to do what I want at the same time and move wherever I want to continue my life in general.  However there is some other feelings that I am working to destroy in facing the reality here.

The first thing I would tell a lot of people new to this site and even members that have been on this site for along time is that the many areas of grief that are listed in Lesson 1, happen in just about every break up you have with someone that you actually cared about or loved.  I'm serious and not only that at least from my experience and hopefully not from repressed feelings for some of these people, it does get better over time however I do believe that someone really has to make you hit rock bottom.  I could be wrong, and no one really needs that to lead a healthy relationship or have a great life with a partner or spouse.  However strangely for me, my exBPDgf/mother of my only child has not been the hardest to get over, of which this is speculation since I am still not completely over it I will admit as far as being sad for our son yet it appears to not be as bad as some others.

When looking back when I was 20 I was po'd for years after breaking up with my 1st Fiancee, and absolutely destroyed after the second one.  The one at age 20 I seriously doubt had BPD however had some issues with her dad yet her parents were married the entire time and were not substance abusers and on and on, the symptoms do not match.  The second fiancee did not have the symptoms at all, very introverted, very polite, a virgin at age 20 for pete's sake yet beautiful, no way, no BPD.

When I first got to this site in reading and looking around I kept thinking what is the difference really between this relationship breaking up or ending versus any other that I have went through?  The only difference is that we have a child of which I have custody of, and that I have to raise.  An additional fact of Limited Contact yet my 2nd ex fiancee whom I said destroyed me(brokenheart), we have been friends on facebook for 5 years.  We do not talk very often yet we just talked last night again, and she said my name came up the other day while talking to her brother. 

Aside from the child, there is this mental illness, ok so that is something new and different, yet if you acknowledge it then at least from what I feel is that it presents a state of hopelessness in that you can do nothing about it, you can't help them, and only they can help themselves.  No different than a drug addict, ok well who would want to live with and love a drug addict doing lines of coke all day?  I would not want to raise my son in that environment and many of you whether you have kids or not, and perhaps want to someday would not be willing to put up with that either.  No matter how much you love someone you just cannot do it.

I am not in anyway diminishing or disrespecting the illness that is out there, yet at the same time I told her during counseling that even if she was diagnosed with something it does not give her a "license to kill".  She does NOT have the right to check in and out of our family whenever she feels its convenient or whenever she feels like having a one night stand or her latest affair. 

A diagnosis did come up during a session with me of which the T said she was exhibiting Borderline PD traits, < that's as good as I got to a diagnosis and I'm taking it and running with it, she had already been diagnosed with OCD and BiPolar and the symptoms fit the behaviors and emotional craziness.

I think the Understanding Your Situation has a lot of stuff that is in other relationships as well.  Most people do not want relationships to end no matter what happens if they are really in love, they just cannot seem to find the fix, get frustrated, or eventually give up before the "miracle" or "fix" is found from what I have seen.  Everyone has their own issues though so I cannot generalize all of society and give answers to each individual, however I do not believe my exBPDgf holds the key to my happiness, it would be nice if she seen the light yet I doubt she will, and even if she did the task of being an over-emotional caretaker for the rest of your life, not a standard one with a normal mentally healthy person, yet an extreme caretaker or part time therapist to your spouse seems daunting and frankly I am not specialized in that field taking only a few Psychology courses in college.

I do feel the article on Co-Dependency is a bit extreme and in fact almost seems like a mirror of what a BPD person is like.  The statements near the end where the Co-Dependent pushes them away is exactly what a BPD does by driving their partner crazy, and into another persons arms, well if I am so co-dependent why have I never in my life at 34 had a rebound relationship?  I have never done that, ever.  Actually at 18 I broke up with one girl to date another, yet I dated the previous girl for three weeks, aside from that I never did it, because it does not work.  Yet the exBPD goes off and finds a replacement, so was she really not BPD and co-dependent instead?

I'm referring to this one:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

I also feel all of the Lesson 4 items would be best served as earlier lessons and especially those that are undecided or staying, because finding out after its over about the types of abuse I suffered, the sex, validation, and communication methods especially are not really helpful after you have set up No Contact.

Also a thing on No Contact, I have done this before with every ex I have ever had, having no children and no desire to stay in touch with each other I never made contact with many of them for years.  After several years and the start of facebook I did become friends again with a few ex's yet we barely ever talk.  Its actually kind of common to do this when you break up with someone, its just with todays social media accounts its very hard to ever really get rid of someone.

Here is a good article on this:

www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/you-can-never-actually-break-up-via-social-media/

Which I read before I even found this site out.

I cannot answer everyone's questions and really cannot generalize for all people and say that everyone has a BPD ex that was horrible, in fact I thought of Histrionic as the original possibility, and I am heavily leaning BPD and will go with the diagnosis rather than just say I still think I could be right.  However while I cannot speak for every scenario I am going to conclude with some thoughts and opinions.

The idea that I was a co-dependent told to me by the T the ex and I seen together was frustrating, I don't know if it was because I was being labeled or because I feel my situation was very "the real mccoy".  I also did not like hearing the quote on this site that people attract or get involved with people of the same emotional maturity.  It does not even seem accurate, how can you measure emotional maturity, and even if you could if they have BPD and you're a non, and older in my case, then would I not be more emotionally mature naturally?

My ex raged at me in the beginning of the relationship thinking I was cheating talking to other women on facebook, I confused this for "jealous/protect your territory behavior of a woman".  Which some women and men do.

My ex cheated on me first time 23 days after my son was born, I have forgiven yet never stayed with anyone that cheated, yet what was I supposed to do, say oh well, I guess I will pay child support for the next 18 years and never see my son.  I'm experimental, I had never tried forgiving and staying, so I gave it a shot, it didn't work out, however at least I tried.

She cheated again mothers day weekend, son was 6 months 2 days old, I walked in on almost sex her laying in bed at another house naked.  Left this time, she asked me to come back, back and forth all week long like the first time eventually going to see the other person yet nothing happening.  I forgive again, yet this time ask for custody or I'm taking her to court as she has drugs in her system.

Waited 30 days, she still did not break up with me, must have been idealizing me again.

What was I supposed to do in either case?  Leave, pay child support, and never see my kid, I wanted to be a DAD!

Signed over custody July 30th last year, we were still working on our relationship and were living together, she was belligerent and nasty at times, and wonderful at other times.  However we broke in January when we had a 3 hour argument about making a phone call while being late at work nearly 3 hours and not calling to tell me you are ok and not dead in the winter. 

I packed some things and left, son was already at my mothers house, she made no attempt to stop me, all she wanted to do was argue.

Whether it was an issue of compromising or boundaries I wanted respect and she said she was too busy working at a Pizza Hut as the shift manager of all things to call me when they are busy, thats not acceptable to me.  Even the dishwasher would have called their spouse or SO.  Am I asking for too much?  I drew the line, I told her I was leaving if she would not do it and I left.

For months I was struggling spiritually, emotionally, and mentally, we had make up/break ups nearly once a month almost always around her period.  Which to me I have thought of this disorder as a person on their period daily, and then when they really get their period like an absolute insane person.

The problem with dealing with person was that you always had to be fine or happy, if you were unhappy it was about them, or you were going to leave them... . you could never just have a damn bad day at work that had nothing to do with them.  I cannot think of a good analogy for this yet I have tried, its like petting a dog after they have bit you, and knowing the dog is going to bite you again and again, and you have to keep petting them while you are bleeding and hurt.

You can never figure this disorder out before because of the masks and "everything is fine" effect or if you are using "substances" together even drinking, you cannot distinguish between what is the drugs/alcohol and what is reality - until they do something horrible(bite your hand).  Once they do you are now hurt trying to patch things or trying to figure out what is wrong, they declare they won't do it again, yet they will.

[Exeter]

After I found out about the BPD with the ex it was too late as she had already started a third affair that I found out about a few days after literally, that close to figuring out what it was and finding that we could get through this and then oh I'm sleeping around now... . great.  I came to this site looking for some type of support group and many of you granted that for me of which I can appreciate to no end.

I read all of the lessons in the leaving board as in the scope of what I examined from the disorder and the relationship I was in, I realized that there was very little chance for recovery.  I went away from the board for awhile, only reading the lessons and trying to move on with life in doing other things, however I do want to provide some general feedback and I feel this is a fine place to do that since its the board I was usually on.

My current state of mind is a bit of anger based upon a ridiculous text message request yesterday and a sense of freedom to do what I want at the same time and move wherever I want to continue my life in general.  However there is some other feelings that I am working to destroy in facing the reality here.

The first thing I would tell a lot of people new to this site and even members that have been on this site for along time is that the many areas of grief that are listed in Lesson 1, happen in just about every break up you have with someone that you actually cared about or loved.  I'm serious and not only that at least from my experience and hopefully not from repressed feelings for some of these people, it does get better over time however I do believe that someone really has to make you hit rock bottom.  I could be wrong, and no one really needs that to lead a healthy relationship or have a great life with a partner or spouse.  However strangely for me, my exBPDgf/mother of my only child has not been the hardest to get over, of which this is speculation since I am still not completely over it I will admit as far as being sad for our son yet it appears to not be as bad as some others.

When looking back when I was 20 I was po'd for years after breaking up with my 1st Fiancee, and absolutely destroyed after the second one.  The one at age 20 I seriously doubt had BPD however had some issues with her dad yet her parents were married the entire time and were not substance abusers and on and on, the symptoms do not match.  The second fiancee did not have the symptoms at all, very introverted, very polite, a virgin at age 20 for pete's sake yet beautiful, no way, no BPD.

When I first got to this site in reading and looking around I kept thinking what is the difference really between this relationship breaking up or ending versus any other that I have went through?  The only difference is that we have a child of which I have custody of, and that I have to raise.  An additional fact of Limited Contact yet my 2nd ex fiancee whom I said destroyed me(brokenheart), we have been friends on facebook for 5 years.  We do not talk very often yet we just talked last night again, and she said my name came up the other day while talking to her brother. 

Aside from the child, there is this mental illness, ok so that is something new and different, yet if you acknowledge it then at least from what I feel is that it presents a state of hopelessness in that you can do nothing about it, you can't help them, and only they can help themselves.  No different than a drug addict, ok well who would want to live with and love a drug addict doing lines of coke all day?  I would not want to raise my son in that environment and many of you whether you have kids or not, and perhaps want to someday would not be willing to put up with that either.  No matter how much you love someone you just cannot do it.

I am not in anyway diminishing or disrespecting the illness that is out there, yet at the same time I told her during counseling that even if she was diagnosed with something it does not give her a "license to kill".  She does NOT have the right to check in and out of our family whenever she feels its convenient or whenever she feels like having a one night stand or her latest affair. 

A diagnosis did come up during a session with me of which the T said she was exhibiting Borderline PD traits, < that's as good as I got to a diagnosis and I'm taking it and running with it, she had already been diagnosed with OCD and BiPolar and the symptoms fit the behaviors and emotional craziness.

I think the Understanding Your Situation has a lot of stuff that is in other relationships as well.  Most people do not want relationships to end no matter what happens if they are really in love, they just cannot seem to find the fix, get frustrated, or eventually give up before the "miracle" or "fix" is found from what I have seen.  Everyone has their own issues though so I cannot generalize all of society and give answers to each individual, however I do not believe my exBPDgf holds the key to my happiness, it would be nice if she seen the light yet I doubt she will, and even if she did the task of being an over-emotional caretaker for the rest of your life, not a standard one with a normal mentally healthy person, yet an extreme caretaker or part time therapist to your spouse seems daunting and frankly I am not specialized in that field taking only a few Psychology courses in college.

I do feel the article on Co-Dependency is a bit extreme and in fact almost seems like a mirror of what a BPD person is like.  The statements near the end where the Co-Dependent pushes them away is exactly what a BPD does by driving their partner crazy, and into another persons arms, well if I am so co-dependent why have I never in my life at 34 had a rebound relationship?  I have never done that, ever.  Actually at 18 I broke up with one girl to date another, yet I dated the previous girl for three weeks, aside from that I never did it, because it does not work.  Yet the exBPD goes off and finds a replacement, so was she really not BPD and co-dependent instead?

I'm referring to this one:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

I also feel all of the Lesson 4 items would be best served as earlier lessons and especially those that are undecided or staying, because finding out after its over about the types of abuse I suffered, the sex, validation, and communication methods especially are not really helpful after you have set up No Contact.

Also a thing on No Contact, I have done this before with every ex I have ever had, having no children and no desire to stay in touch with each other I never made contact with many of them for years.  After several years and the start of facebook I did become friends again with a few ex's yet we barely ever talk.  Its actually kind of common to do this when you break up with someone, its just with todays social media accounts its very hard to ever really get rid of someone.

Here is a good article on this:

www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/you-can-never-actually-break-up-via-social-media/

Which I read before I even found this site out.

I cannot answer everyone's questions and really cannot generalize for all people and say that everyone has a BPD ex that was horrible, in fact I thought of Histrionic as the original possibility, and I am heavily leaning BPD and will go with the diagnosis rather than just say I still think I could be right.  However while I cannot speak for every scenario I am going to conclude with some thoughts and opinions.

The idea that I was a co-dependent told to me by the T the ex and I seen together was frustrating, I don't know if it was because I was being labeled or because I feel my situation was very "the real mccoy".  I also did not like hearing the quote on this site that people attract or get involved with people of the same emotional maturity.  It does not even seem accurate, how can you measure emotional maturity, and even if you could if they have BPD and you're a non, and older in my case, then would I not be more emotionally mature naturally?

My ex raged at me in the beginning of the relationship thinking I was cheating talking to other women on facebook, I confused this for "jealous/protect your territory behavior of a woman".  Which some women and men do.

My ex cheated on me first time 23 days after my son was born, I have forgiven yet never stayed with anyone that cheated, yet what was I supposed to do, say oh well, I guess I will pay child support for the next 18 years and never see my son.  I'm experimental, I had never tried forgiving and staying, so I gave it a shot, it didn't work out, however at least I tried.

She cheated again mothers day weekend, son was 6 months 2 days old, I walked in on almost sex her laying in bed at another house naked.  Left this time, she asked me to come back, back and forth all week long like the first time eventually going to see the other person yet nothing happening.  I forgive again, yet this time ask for custody or I'm taking her to court as she has drugs in her system.

Waited 30 days, she still did not break up with me, must have been idealizing me again.

What was I supposed to do in either case?  Leave, pay child support, and never see my kid, I wanted to be a DAD!

Signed over custody July 30th last year, we were still working on our relationship and were living together, she was belligerent and nasty at times, and wonderful at other times.  However we broke in January when we had a 3 hour argument about making a phone call while being late at work nearly 3 hours and not calling to tell me you are ok and not dead in the winter. 

I packed some things and left, son was already at my mothers house, she made no attempt to stop me, all she wanted to do was argue.

Whether it was an issue of compromising or boundaries I wanted respect and she said she was too busy working at a Pizza Hut as the shift manager of all things to call me when they are busy, thats not acceptable to me.  Even the dishwasher would have called their spouse or SO.  Am I asking for too much?  I drew the line, I told her I was leaving if she would not do it and I left.

For months I was struggling spiritually, emotionally, and mentally, we had make up/break ups nearly once a month almost always around her period.  Which to me I have thought of this disorder as a person on their period daily, and then when they really get their period like an absolute insane person.

The problem with dealing with person was that you always had to be fine or happy, if you were unhappy it was about them, or you were going to leave them... . you could never just have a damn bad day at work that had nothing to do with them.  I cannot think of a good analogy for this yet I have tried, its like petting a dog after they have bit you, and knowing the dog is going to bite you again and again, and you have to keep petting them while you are bleeding and hurt.

You can never figure this disorder out before because of the masks and "everything is fine" effect or if you are using "substances" together even drinking, you cannot distinguish between what is the drugs/alcohol and what is reality - until they do something horrible(bite your hand).  Once they do you are now hurt trying to patch things or trying to figure out what is wrong, they declare they won't do it again, yet they will.

[Exeter]

Part 2 - Final


Whether she has BPD which I am nearly sure of multiple PD's or is just a sex addict with other lower axis disorders, she's messed up and high functioning, you don't see it before hand, and then when you are hurt you have to work through your own pain while trying to manage their emotional instability.

I keep telling the T and people I have spoke to, its not just about the damn cheating, yes that is bad enough or a deal breaker, its the constant emotional rollercoaster and plain stupidity of thoughts/decisions/accusations that are completely unfounded that drive you to leave, or did me.

I read a ton of articles on cheating, why people do it, and relationship articles in general.  There was one that stated part of falling out of love is that you were not who you once were to each other in the beginning, meaning she was not the girl who liked to go out have a drink and come home and just hang out together and have fun, yet I also realized I was not the same man anymore as I did not allow her to just get away with anything.  With each infidelity I put more chains on, this made me less fun or not the same person that she first met either.

Getting back to this I was overall confused by this person yet I do not think I am as emotionally immature as they are, and while I like helping people I do not think I am that codependent, in fact sometimes I feel cold and ruthless.  That might be extreme yet when I was with her I did college almost every night for 2 hours, I had my alone time or time to do my things, I never gave that up because I couldn't.  This whole enmeshment of being only with the BPD and being entranced constantly, I couldn't be because I had to do college at least 6/7 nights, if not 5/7.  I went to college straight from 2010-2014 with a 2 week break each year at Christmas, otherwise it was 365 straight, no breaks between classes one day a class ended the next another started.

I didn't mean to be "emotionally unavailable" if she thought I was, I tried to do nice things, take her out, buy her clothes, and flowers, and spend time with her both in and out of the bedroom.  Yet I had responsibilities, work, school, and she had two kids before and during her pregnancy that I helped take care of.  She never talked of long term goals, never talked of values or morals. 

The reason why I fell in love with her aside from beauty and personality was because she said she was a Christian and I thought "this is the one God".  NOPE!  I was friggin wrong huge, never dealt with a mentally ill person this close before did not know what to look for.

However I will tell you this, even before the first time I had sex with her, I was not that excited, the sex got better as it does with couples, yet something I felt was wrong since the very beginning of the relationship it was almost subliminal.  One thing huge to me, she never grieved after her ex-husband, she immediately started sleeping with a guy in another town, and then met me when she came to work where I did.  No grieving?  That is not normal and I have thought that since 3 years ago.  Even if you want the relationship to end or you do the "breaking up" there is usually some sort of grieving, not so in this case or she hid it well. 

Sometimes after we had sex in the beginning she would cry she said later it was because she started to have feelings for me, I think she might have been having guilt/shame issues of her family exhusband and kids now that I look back yet have no idea.

People talk on this site that you get no closure, and I think you do, your ex has a mental illness.  So when you say why did it end or woulda should coulda if ands or buts, they have a mental illness, it is their fault, yes you and I both could have reacted better had we known their emotional instabilities and huge fear of rejection and abandonment yet you didn't, therefore they have a mental illness and its why your relationship ended.  Or if you left because you were cheated on or some other form of abuse, they are an abuser as well.  If you want to blame yourself go ahead, I will admit that I was not perfect and did not always react well, and I could have done better in those areas, however I had and do still have goals, I would like a healthy lifestyle and I plan on living it.  I am going to see my T for 12 sessions and unless we uncover some damaging area in my own past that I am unaware of, then I am finished.

This is a break up just like the others, the whole they moved on to someone else and are having sex with them, you don't really know the factors of all that, whether they are enjoying it, whether they are better than you, whether you are really good in bed or not, you are, you are just fine.  Trust me, she was not the best I ever had, and I know I gave her more O's than anyone else, so I placed her records and she beat none that had been done to me by other women.  It was good sex, yet not the best I had ever had, it was only great because I loved her just like the others I slept with that I loved.  Do not go crazy on the sex part, I have to get a paternity test done just to know for real if my son is really mine, she could have slept with a 100 guys over the course of our relationship and lied to me about it... . how would you ever know the difference with anyone you are with?

In closing I did enjoy learning about this illness, and in a real twisted way part of me was staying in that relationship even when I thought "there is no chance in hell this is going to work", frankly for some sort of sick entertainment, like "how much of a ___ up is she".  While however cruel that may sound it was a thought I had at one point, I do not think it was what I really felt though as I was greatly hurt by this person.

The thing that bothers me about this site and the illness is that it projects a sense of helplessness that there is nothing you can do, and once painted black, you probably cannot do much or start using the different communication forms to get them back.  However do you really want to sign up for this is what my T asked?  I told her today its been 2 weeks since full NC on social media and last night I had to check her page to see what she was showing publically, mostly hidden and not torturing me with her crap.  However while I removed or untagged myself from all of her photos, she still has photos of us up together?  What the heck!  I explained her want to call me the other day about the back child support and the T said, "and next she will come back totally sincere saying she's changed and will do anything to get you back" which I dread.  While I am thinking "if only I could get sole custody I could leave and really never see her again".

I can leave anyway, just if I got the SC, then she would never be able to damage or neglect our child.

The other thing this disorder does is that it makes you pity them or feel bad for them, because of their disorder.

I watched an episode of Law & Order where a guy with schizophrenia stopped taking his meds and killed some people.  Look, he got institutionalized mentally, however you do not have to have sympathy for those that self-destruct.  Its their life to live however they want, and they can hurt others and themselves in the process.  You cannot save everyone, and if my ex wants to be a whore or go sleep around with everyone, so be it.  It is what it is, I do not sympathize with a criminal, and infidelity to me is a crime, and it is in the United States Military if you did not know that.

She knew she had a problem, was going to therapy, and quit going, she quit taking her medicine, therefore I have no sympathy for that, my boundaries are being built up strongly, we only text, I denied 3 of her phone calls the other day, its done. 

I think rationally she will not come back because I have a child with her and she is attracted to illicit sex, therefore its not illicit with a dad of your kid.  However that makes sense so its not the correct answer.  She blocked her ex-husband when she left him, she never blocked me, she never deleted me, she still has not even taken our pictures down.  She may over time, true, yet the sad fact is however stupid or ridiculous she probably is going to try and come back since I have custody of our son.  I hope I have enough will power and resistance by then to say NO, and regardless I want to leave the state as soon as feasible after my Masters Degree to get as far away from her as possible to reduce the possibility to NIL.  Yes it would have been great if she would change her mind and stop her poor behavior for our family, yet she didn't, and if I ever took her back then my boundaries would be useless, I am the only ex she has ever had that has given her consequence by taking our son through the legal process.  At the same time I am just absolutely shocked she would rather sleep around then sleep with and be in a relationship with her youngest childs father?  That is absolutely insane to me, which is why she truly does have a disorder BPD or not, and is not mentally well, therefore I have to protect my son/my family basically, and that is my biggest issue with her, it was not so much in the end that I feared being cheated on again, I do not feel safe around her.  I literally feared for my life at one point thinking she might try to kill me, I told my T today that a T like you would be testifying at her trial saying "she's not mentally competent", she brought up the Casey Anthony case and they tried to say in that case she had Borderline, my T thought Casey was a sociopath, I said... . its funny her ex husband said that she was addicted to Twitter and Social Media following that EXACT TRIAL!

Casey Anthony also was found not guilty.  I need to regain safety, I have power, just need to feel safe again, anxiety is high and trusting anyone is low, I am working on myself, going to start an exercise regimen and start my masters degree late summer/fall hopefully.

That's all I have, long read I apologize.