New Boundary: Values connected to setting boundaries

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So... if you want an interesting story... .look back in some of my posts to find where my wife sent me a naked picture of another woman.  20 years marriage... never happened before... but lots of theories and accusations about what I want to do with other women.  Enough backstory... .here is my new boundary.

In MC a couple days ago... .my #1 topic was that I wanted to talk about and make sure my boundary was understood.  So... we worked through her issue first for most of the session... .a money thing.

I explained to my wife that I love her... .and that I think about her in a sexual way... and that I don't enjoy thinking about other women in a sexual way.  I want to live as pure a life as I can in that regard... .not because of her... .but because that is my value system... .that I will honor my marriage vows to be pure to my wife.

She keep trying to say fine... .no more pictures... .and I kept clarifying... and the MC T helped her understand that it was the entire spectrum... I not going to discuss my desire for other women... .period.

I will discuss my desire for my wife all day long.

It went much better than expected.  I focused more on my desire for my wife... .than not talking about other women... .but... she can verbalize my boundary. 

I was also clear that I understood and respected her boundaries... and that I hoped she would respect mine... .she said she would.

Now... .I know I will be tested... .I'm fine with that.

Now to the values part:  I had to spend some time alone... .thinking about why the picture incident really bothered me.  Once I was clear about what the value was... .then I focused on thinking about how to live out that value for a few weeks

I didn't want to be rash or reactive.  I wanted to make sure it was honestly a value I had... .and that I understood it... .and could explain it.

Once I got to that point... .that I was solid on my value.  Then... .it is up to me to set the boundary... .to live out my value.

I'm interested in comments... .also want to invite others to post here... or to start new threads about their journey in figuring out their values... and how they lived those boundaries out.

[formflier]

So... if you want an interesting story... .look back in some of my posts to find where my wife sent me a naked picture of another woman.  20 years marriage... never happened before... but lots of theories and accusations about what I want to do with other women.  Enough backstory... .here is my new boundary.

In MC a couple days ago... .my #1 topic was that I wanted to talk about and make sure my boundary was understood.  So... we worked through her issue first for most of the session... .a money thing.

I explained to my wife that I love her... .and that I think about her in a sexual way... and that I don't enjoy thinking about other women in a sexual way.  I want to live as pure a life as I can in that regard... .not because of her... .but because that is my value system... .that I will honor my marriage vows to be pure to my wife.

She keep trying to say fine... .no more pictures... .and I kept clarifying... and the MC T helped her understand that it was the entire spectrum... I not going to discuss my desire for other women... .period.

I will discuss my desire for my wife all day long.

It went much better than expected.  I focused more on my desire for my wife... .than not talking about other women... .but... she can verbalize my boundary. 

I was also clear that I understood and respected her boundaries... and that I hoped she would respect mine... .she said she would.

Now... .I know I will be tested... .I'm fine with that.

Now to the values part:  I had to spend some time alone... .thinking about why the picture incident really bothered me.  Once I was clear about what the value was... .then I focused on thinking about how to live out that value for a few weeks

I didn't want to be rash or reactive.  I wanted to make sure it was honestly a value I had... .and that I understood it... .and could explain it.

Once I got to that point... .that I was solid on my value.  Then... .it is up to me to set the boundary... .to live out my value.

I'm interested in comments... .also want to invite others to post here... or to start new threads about their journey in figuring out their values... and how they lived those boundaries out.

[Crumbling]

The boundary that I've set that has helped me the most along this unending journey, so far, is the exact one that Maxsterling is attempting to set right now - No more verbal, uncalled for attacks.  No more telling me I'm doing something 'wrong', no more instruction on how to do things that I've been doing for decades (and very well, all on my own, thank you very much!).

Getting out from under his words, and making my own decision based on MY evaluation of the situation and totally ignoring his.  It sounds cruel, but when your partner does not have the capacity to make logical decisions outside of his/her emotional state, then you need to do it yourself.

It did feel like climbing a very tall steep mountain.  It was just a small adjustment, one I had to keep at constantly - not reacting to his words, and expressing my disagreement in his 'evaluations' without accusing him of doing it on purpose.  I'd say, "I know you feel you are helping me by saying this, but it doesn't help.  It makes me feel small, inadequate and useless.  If you want a battered, withered, empty wife who can do nothing, keep it up, because that is exactly what you will have.  I'm almost there now!"   This is a general approach, but I would adapt parts as it would pertain to the situation at hand, but I had to keep making sure he understood what the effects of his actions or words were.

I cannot honestly say that things turned on a dime, there were ups and downs, good days and bad, until I reached a point were I realized we were spending the whole day together, and he wasn't accusing me, or correcting me once throughout the day.  And if he did, I would just give him the look and he would apologize.  Getting to this point took over a year to reach.  Loving a BPD is not a task for those who give up easy.

[Grey Kitty]

FF, I think that is an excellent boundary for you.

I'm glad that your wife 'understands' it too.

Her fears may make that understanding fly out the window. 20 years of history say it will. 

Remember that your boundaries about living within your values, and protecting yourself from things that are against your values. Your wife's agreement and understanding aren't relevant to your enforcement of them.

When I read your description, I see not one value/boundary pair, but two of them, intertwined. Perhaps examining them will help you. Or perhaps you don't see them this way.

1. You value fidelity and living up to your marriage vows.

This absolutely means you do not ACT sexually with women besides your wife.

Not indulging in your own thoughts about other women being sexually attractive fits this value too.

I believe that your feelings are yours, and they are valid, and they are never WRONG. If you never even find another woman to be sexually attractive, that is your experience. No problem there. You may that a woman is attractive... .or conversely notice that a woman is unattractive, or less attractive than your wife. That feeling is still yours, and still valid.

What I understand about being human is that it is normal to feel attraction to other people, even when we are committed to one person, and will never ACT on that attraction. I feel attraction. I notice. I also know it is against my values/code of good behavior to stare, obsess, or cheat!

2. You value peace and kindness.

Any discussions of your desire for other women with your wife go against this. She goes into dysregulation ... .almost immediately.

She feels all kind of distress over it.

She inflicts all kinds of crap on you when she does. (You spent weeks upset over this picture!)

A boundary of protecting both of you and your wife from those interactions by refusing to discuss your sexual attraction to other women fits this value.

[formflier]

 

GK,

Very close... .

I try to be pure... .I live in a sexual world... so... I have to be on guard... .I also have to be a realist.  I'm going to see stuff... .I will deal with it and move on.

The key for me is to have the "least amount possible" in my head.  When I was shocked by the picture... .and began to examine my values and my thoughts... .

I figured out that "most" of the odd thoughts about women... .have been placed in my head by my wife... .the women I am trying to be true to.

So... if I am out alone... .and I notice some hot thing walking by... .I'm a man... I'll look.  I don't think that is sinful behavior.  What I do think is sinful is if I stopped... .and stared... .and "undressed" her with my eyes.  Not good... and all of that is under my control.

So... when I'm with my wife... .and she starts yammering on about I am attracted to xyz because of some skirt she wore... .or that she didn't have a bra on... .and was trying to get me to look her boobs... or whatever else... .90% of the time... .I never noticed those things... .and if my wife would have hushed... I wouldn't have had those thoughts.

Well... that is now back in my control... .sort of.

We all know it's going to happen... she will bring something about a woman that is sexual... .to put in my head.

We also know (most likely) that is not her goal... .she has fears... .she has habits... .and the images in my head are a byproduct. 

So... .I will politely but firmly remind her that I don't discuss other women (still need to work on exact words).  If she persists... .I will excuse myself.

Most likely she will claim... .at some point... that I'm doing this to hide things... .or to hide my true feelings... .I just won't debate it.

[Grey Kitty]

So... if I am out alone... .and I notice some hot thing walking by... .I'm a man... I'll look.  I don't think that is sinful behavior.  What I do think is sinful is if I stopped... .and stared... .and "undressed" her with my eyes.  Not good... and all of that is under my control.

From your descriptions, you haven't ever had a problem with this. [Perhaps you had a moment once that you didn't tell us about, but still, you moved on and didn't create a problem.]

This may be part of your reason for the boundary... .but it isn't anything that causes problems or anything you need to change.

The boundary is about your wife's accusations, circular arguments, and dysregulations.

[formflier]

So... if I am out alone... .and I notice some hot thing walking by... .I'm a man... I'll look.  I don't think that is sinful behavior.  What I do think is sinful is if I stopped... .and stared... .and "undressed" her with my eyes.  Not good... and all of that is under my control.

From your descriptions, you haven't ever had a problem with this. [Perhaps you had a moment once that you didn't tell us about, but still, you moved on and didn't create a problem.]

This may be part of your reason for the boundary... .but it isn't anything that causes problems or anything you need to change.

The boundary is about your wife's accusations, circular arguments, and dysregulations.

Right... the biggest source of "sexual oddness" about other women... .is my wife.  Or was... the picture was just the straw that broke the camels back... .and got me thinking about it.

[Grey Kitty]

Right... the biggest source of "sexual oddness" about other women... .is my wife.  Or was... the picture was just the straw that broke the camels back... .and got me thinking about it.

When your wife does something to send your attention in that direction, does your head go there? Which do you think about?

The desirability of the woman your wife is drawing your attention to?

Or the emotional ___ storm your wife is about to throw at you?

[formflier]

Right... the biggest source of "sexual oddness" about other women... .is my wife.  Or was... the picture was just the straw that broke the camels back... .and got me thinking about it.

When your wife does something to send your attention in that direction, does your head go there? Which do you think about?

The desirability of the woman your wife is drawing your attention to?

Or the emotional ___ storm your wife is about to throw at you?

A bit of both...

It is impossible to "not" think about something that was just told to you... and then  next time you bump into that lady... .it kinda brings up memories.

Anyway... .

I see the question... .and I can't separate that... .cleanly.  But there is probably more of the crap storm that I care to admit.