Rage vs. sadness...

[howcanI?]

So many of you report on your progress and challenges of dealing with the emotional and physical violence of the BPD rages, and it's profoundly helpful to me!  Walking away from that (and knowing I can) seems like the easiest thing in the world.  Where I am at a loss is when my SO slips into deeeep sadness and tears.  He continues to mourn the many losses he feels since I "forced" him (my " " to move into this beautiful new log house that was a miraculous gift from my late sister.  The longest continuing lament is how the kitchen doesn't get all warm and steamy when there's a pot of soup on and something in the oven.  He does the cooking (former chef) and admits it is one of few happy memories of growing up with a profoundly mentally ill mother. And my heart breaks for him.  At the time when this hits (i.e., last night) I'm able to be sympathetic and empathetic, hold his hand, tell him the tears are okay without trying to fix it or talk him out of it (no JADE, honest!)  But I'm pretty sure this is another form of acting out and his being manipulative that I should be separating myself from.  Is that true, or am I just a cold-hearted bitc*?  This a.m. I am exhausted, depressed and angry when I think of all the new goodies he has (and which I keep adding to) but is unable to enjoy.  HELP!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Crumbling]

I don't think it makes you cold or heartless when you've had a conversation that has stripped you of your happiness, comfort and ease and thrown you into exhaustion, depression and anger and you're left not feeling empathy for the person that lead you into the conversation in the first place.  I see your reaction as healthy and justified.

Right now, I am battling a whole whack of resentment towards my BPDh.  I'm trying not to lash out at him, but reading your post made me angry at your guy!  He has no right to turn a good thing bad, even if he does have baggage emotionally.

[Rapt Reader]

But I'm pretty sure this is another form of acting out and his being manipulative that I should be separating myself from.  Is that true, or am I just a cold-hearted bitc*?  This a.m. I am exhausted, depressed and angry when I think of all the new goodies he has (and which I keep adding to) but is unable to enjoy.  HELP!

Do you think his emotions and dysregulations are intended to manipulate you actually? Or is this how his mind works and he is reacting out of the intensity of his emotions? Is it possible to see his dissatisfaction with all the good things he has in his life as sad and tragic for him, instead of getting angry about it? If he sincerely believes that nothing is ever good in his life at times, doesn't that seem tragic? Is that something to be sympathetic about, rather than taking it personally as him trying to act out and manipulate you? Depersonalizing these behaviors and feelings of his really could change the way you look at them... .and him... .

What do you think?

[Cat Familiar]

I can commiserate with you, HowcanI?, about the "yuck" factor when your SO can't appreciate the wonderful gift you both have received of your sister's log house.

Mine laments that we don't get good movies in our little community, but he hates it every time he has to drive in the big city and is so happy to live in a rural community without traffic nightmares.

He's a drama queen and I used to get really irritated hearing how awful his life is now that he's so isolated and has no friends. However, now that he has started to visit some former friends I the city, he realizes that he had no real friends there either. And the reality is that he has friends here. They're just not the perfect friends he thinks he deserves.

[howcanI?]

*sigh*  You're right, of course, RR, and I appreciate the reminder!  But wow! combine a sad BPD and someone with bipolar who's job growing up was to make EVERYONE happy happy happy and you have a recipe for bat-shi#, howl-at-the-moon crazy!

And I also really treasure your response, Crum!  We all know that none of our beloved Bs have a right to poop on our happiness, but the continuing challenge is for us to learn how to yank our happiness out from under their bottoms! (sorry for the potty mouth... .)

[Cat Familiar]

I've started to distance myself when my SO starts pooping in my happiness. I have a real problem with people who aren't appreciative of their good fortune and look for cracks in the pot of gold.

So the way I deal with it is to look upon him as a petulant child, which is in itself a problem for me because it further detracts from feeling attracted to him as my lover. But I can still hold onto my happiness.

[howcanI?]

I've started to distance myself when my SO starts pooping in my happiness. I have a real problem with people who aren't appreciative of their good fortune and look for cracks in the pot of gold.

Especially when you're the one who's giving the gold!  Man o day, it's hard for me not to take that personally.

One narrow question for y'all: while RR's suggestion re the ultimate sadness of my beloved being unable to enjoy anything good, (and his being aware of it!) should I be responding to this outburst with hand-holding and lots of attention, or is that rewarding it inappropriately?  In other words, how does this fit in with this group's commitment to allowing our SOs to self-regulate?

[Rapt Reader]

The reason I brought that up is because my own Husband has a habit of "forgetting" the positives in his life (his home--including the pond he made and beautiful landscaping he accomplished--his kids, his friends, his decent job, and me!), and then getting depressed and bitter. The time of year can do that (he has Seasonal Affective Disorder, I would say); some frustration with a car, snow-blower or lawn mower that needs some work to run right; some "slight" that I or one of our kids might show him accidentally or undconsciously; etc.

This cycle or dysregulation used to last for quite awhile sometimes, with me making it worse by JADEing and begging him to see the positives, or getting finally angry with him and snapping at him out of frustration and annoyance. Now that I realize his attitude comes from his BPD traits, and not something intended to treat me badly or irritate me, I handle it differently. I depersonalize it and empathize instead of arguing or getting angry. I've found a sympathetic demeanor and body language, and empathetic listening and verbal reactions have caused him to snap out of his depression and anger more quickly.

We all benefit from my giving him a better, more compassionate reaction, and things really do run smoothly pretty much most of the time... .I don't look at it as my wanting him to "self-regulate" as opposed to giving him "too much hand-holding"; I look at it as being aware of his emotional needs and doing what I can to meet them. And it takes less time than fretting over trying to get my own point of view across to him, and makes life happier for both of us, without feeling hurt or put-upon 

[Cat Familiar]

I've started to distance myself when my SO starts pooping in my happiness. I have a real problem with people who aren't appreciative of their good fortune and look for cracks in the pot of gold.

Especially when you're the one who's giving the gold!  Man o day, it's hard for me not to take that personally.

One narrow question for y'all: while RR's suggestion re the ultimate sadness of my beloved being unable to enjoy anything good, (and his being aware of it!) should I be responding to this outburst with hand-holding and lots of attention, or is that rewarding it inappropriately?  In other words, how does this fit in with this group's commitment to allowing our SOs to self-regulate?

I'm in a similar situation, HowcanI?, it was my inheritance that built this big house we share. I spent almost everything I had so we could live together. Now he has inherited a lot of money and I'm the dependent one.

It feels so phony to be ultra sympathetic to him who he's whining about how bad his life is because he has to live in a beautiful big house in the country and doesn't get to see foreign films in a theatre.

A part of me wants to tell him that he should thank his f¥(£ing lucky stars for just how fortunate he is.

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, RR, it makes sense to do that, and it is certainly better in the long run, but it's hard to take the high road sometimes.

[Rapt Reader]

Yes, RR, it makes sense to do that, and it is certainly better in the long run, but it's hard to take the high road sometimes.

It was hard for me, too, at first, when I was somehow gratified by my "righteous indignation" at his inability to appreciate his blessings, and my need of venting it to him being fulfilled, to the detriment of our relationship.

Now I'm gratified by the amiability of our relationship when he feels validated by me, and he turns his negativity around quickly because of that validation. I let my need to "be right" go into the Universe, for the fulfillment of the better need of a good relationship. But, yeah... .It was hard to get to that place at first 

[Cat Familiar]

It was hard for me, too, at first, when I was somehow gratified by my "righteous indignation" at his inability to appreciate his blessings, and my need of venting it to him being fulfilled, to the detriment of our relationship.

Now I'm gratified by the amiability of our relationship when he feels validated by me, and he turns his negativity around quickly because of that validation. I let my need to "be right" go into the Universe, for the fulfillment of the better need of a good relationship. But, yeah... .It was hard to get to that place at first 

Yes, I have observed that if I don't play my typical role in the drama, he gets bored with it and drops it. When I have a hard time doing that is when he's tapped into something that really feels wounding--like me upending my financial stability so that he could live here or telling me, "You hate me." When he does that, I'm almost tempted to agree with that statement.

[Crumbling]

I agree, it is hard to take the high road sometimes. 

RR, you sound so strong, so sure in your own space.

I did make the mistake of agreeing with my BPDh that I hate him sometimes.  It was months ago, and he is still bringing it up and is very hurt over it.  I am sorry I said it, but it is the truth, sometimes I no longer feel anything but anger and hate when I think about him.  I wish it wasn't the truth, and I don't recommend sharing it even if it is true.  My BPDh was certainly damaged by knowing.

[Cat Familiar]

I did make the mistake of agreeing with my BPDh that I hate him sometimes.  It was months ago, and he is still bringing it up and is very hurt over it.  I am sorry I said it, but it is the truth, sometimes I no longer feel anything but anger and hate when I think about him.  I wish it wasn't the truth, and I don't recommend sharing it even if it is true.  My BPDh was certainly damaged by knowing.

You're absolutely right. It would be something that my husband would never forget.

[howcanI?]

You guys are awesome - thank you so much!  Whaddya know - it really DOES help to get this stuff out there!  Bless you all. XOXOX

[maxsterling]

I can relate here.  I've been dealing with what I feel is nonstop criticism for a month.  Criticizing my job, my way of taking care of myself and the house, the way I cook.  Almost like there was no gratitude for what I have done to help her.  And then just the past two days, the gratitude came - that she is taking time to take care of her health and has the support for the first time in her life, and that I am able to provide her heath insurance and she can now have this or that done only for a small copay.  She had a tear in her eye as she said that.

It's so exhausting from my end.  I get so tired from hearing her negativity and complaining, that my hurt feelings just don't go away instantly.  Yet I can't help but feel empathetic when she starts crying.  I don't think she means to be ungrateful - it's just that is what she knows.  Her whole life her attitude is that it's her vs everyone else.  I think with me being supportive and patient forces her to go through so many layers of herself and of her past.  It's hard for her to be thankful for what she has.

[howcanI?]

Max: right on, Brother!

[Cat Familiar]

I can relate here.  I've been dealing with what I feel is nonstop criticism for a month.  Criticizing my job, my way of taking care of myself and the house, the way I cook.  Almost like there was no gratitude for what I have done to help her.  And then just the past two days, the gratitude came - that she is taking time to take care of her health and has the support for the first time in her life, and that I am able to provide her heath insurance and she can now have this or that done only for a small copay.  She had a tear in her eye as she said that.

It's so exhausting from my end.  I get so tired from hearing her negativity and complaining, that my hurt feelings just don't go away instantly.  Yet I can't help but feel empathetic when she starts crying.  I don't think she means to be ungrateful - it's just that is what she knows.  Her whole life her attitude is that it's her vs everyone else.  I think with me being supportive and patient forces her to go through so many layers of herself and of her past.  It's hard for her to be thankful for what she has.

Well she's giving you some crumbs. It's hard to keep on keeping on when no positive energy (or appreciation) is returned. I've made it a point from day one in this relationship to always thank him for even the little things. Then he'll turn it around and say I don't appreciate him. What do I have to do? Have a parade in his honor?

[Crumbling]

Max, you brought a tear to my eye with your understanding of your wife, and the crumbs she scattered with her tears.  You've reminded me of why we stay.

For me, last night I snuggled my head up against his shoulder as we lay in bed.  He let out the biggest, heaviest sigh I've ever heard.  He clasped my head, like a scared child, and kissed me on the forehead.  I thanked him for understanding me.  He thanked me for not going away.

All the hate, anger, bitterness, all of it, vanished, and in flowed the love.  That's why I stay.


howcanI?, I'm glad we could be there for you!   

Merry Wednesday, all!