I have a Question

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

As I learn here and read here I see that BPD's seem to never let go and come back a lot.

My question is this.Now that she put an order of protection on me I can not for any reason contact her.This would be bad for me and land me in jail.

The Sick part is my lawyer said she can still contact me whenever she wants.This to me is absurd.She can even come on my property and knock on the door.

So to the people that understand this.Does this mean she may still try to call me,set me up,use me,at a later date.?... .Is this the ''end'' to this woman or is it just another tactic to hurt me,control me,or what.I feel like its the end of the road but she still has her ''options'' wide open to come and go as she pleases.

She put the order in on Monday and said all these bad things about me and created drama with courts and police.As I look at the text I see she texted me Monday night.

If she is in fear for her life on Monday afternoon and files these charges,why is she texting me on Monday night if she is soo scareddddddddddd.

I wonder if she wants to destroy me and ''set me up'' and that is not good here in NY.Criminal Contempt is prison time.

Now I am scared if she is coming after me and will start calling police on me and making up a story line that I seen her and talked to her at Wal-Mart.

This may not be the end to this.I have read these people will come back even with an Order Of Protection or any court case.

Any help would be great... .

NYMIKE

[NYMike]

As I learn here and read here I see that BPD's seem to never let go and come back a lot.

My question is this.Now that she put an order of protection on me I can not for any reason contact her.This would be bad for me and land me in jail.

The Sick part is my lawyer said she can still contact me whenever she wants.This to me is absurd.She can even come on my property and knock on the door.

So to the people that understand this.Does this mean she may still try to call me,set me up,use me,at a later date.?... .Is this the ''end'' to this woman or is it just another tactic to hurt me,control me,or what.I feel like its the end of the road but she still has her ''options'' wide open to come and go as she pleases.

She put the order in on Monday and said all these bad things about me and created drama with courts and police.As I look at the text I see she texted me Monday night.

If she is in fear for her life on Monday afternoon and files these charges,why is she texting me on Monday night if she is soo scareddddddddddd.

I wonder if she wants to destroy me and ''set me up'' and that is not good here in NY.Criminal Contempt is prison time.

Now I am scared if she is coming after me and will start calling police on me and making up a story line that I seen her and talked to her at Wal-Mart.

This may not be the end to this.I have read these people will come back even with an Order Of Protection or any court case.

Any help would be great... .

NYMIKE

[EaglesJuju]

Hi NYMike,

Although I am not a legal guru, I would suggest keeping all texts and documenting when she has contacted you.   Have you spoken to your lawyer about filing an order against her?  It seems that if she is contacting you, that would be a form of harassment and a violation of her order. The best thing you can do is protect yourself and not respond to her communication. 

[peiper]

I'm in the same boat. She got a restraining order, moved in with another guy she already had lined up, yet has still called and texted me from bogus numbers. If you can prove it's her it's legally considered entrapment. You can let the court know that.

[clydegriffith]

Be very afraid and stay away. Now that there is an order of protection is in place, she can go to the police and say anything she wants and they can and will arrest you. What she says does not even have to be true. She can go in to the precicint say you called her (even if you didn't) and you will be arrested. Stay far, far, far away. I speak from personal experience as the BPD woman i was involved with had me arrested 4 times within one year. It took her moving 7 hours away to put in and end to it.

I would contact the police precint with jurisdiction over her and let them know of the situation. Tell them you are dealing with a mentally distrubed person and you are afraid she may make false accusations. Ask them if they can do you the courtesy and in the event she makes such accusations to give you a call and you will gladly turn yourself in. This will spare you the shock and embarassment of having them knock on your door or even your job and taking  you away in handcuffs.

I'm also in NY. If you are within the 5 boroughs and she makes a false claim against you, lie about your income when you get to central bookings so you can get a free attorney. If the case is BS she likely won't cooperate with the district attorney because she would be subjected to cross-examination.

[Mutt]

Criminal Contempt is prison time.

Hi NYMike,

Although I am not a legal guru, I would suggest keeping all texts and documenting when she has contacted you.   Have you spoken to your lawyer about filing an order against her?

EaglesJuju has a good point. Sounds like you need your L to sort this out.

I would like to add video and voice recorders.

[clydegriffith]

I will further add that no matter how much the evidence points in your favor, the District Attorney will not drop the case and drag it out as long as possible. I was in court for almost two years straight based on the 4 arrests and i had to go through this. Had i had to pay for an attorney i would probably be bankrupt now. The cases only ended up getting dismissed based on the 30.30 speedy trial rules (they are not speedy at all). Hopefully it doesn't get to that point for you though!

Unfortunatley the way our laws are set up she can do whatever she wants without ever being charged for making a false statement or anything like that. The Domestic Violence industry has lobbied hard to engrain the thought that if you arrest people that make fals statements, it would discourage real victims from coming forward. I don't believe that could be further from the truth.

[Targeted]

Did she give you any sign that this was going to happen?  I believe in one of your other posts chicken to your place you give money and she stayed and wanted to get back together and then just this out of the blue? I am in no contact And I am staying that way but because I really did love her now that I am five months out I was kicking around the idea that I would only try again if she got The proper therapy, after the last and final break up she call child services with wild accusations trying to get my children taken away from  me,  I did not have children with her, these were my children from a previous marriage,  when she asked me recently to meet for closure and say goodbye this was in the back of my mind and kept me from meeting her everytime she asked, I just had a bad feeling if we met something bad would come out of for me and that's why I never did even though I wanted to. I still don't know what what happened but After reading your posts I'm glad I did not find out.

[livednlearned]

Do the most proactive thing you can do so you can protect yourself. If that means filing a protective order against her, do that. If it means carrying a recording device at all times, do that too. Block her number, change your routine, whatever makes you feel most protected.

In some states, you cannot record another person without their consent. Find out if NY is one of those states. Otherwise, if you're in a one-party state, you can record her. Either way, holding up your phone and telling her that you are recording her may get her to second think her next actions, and it's better to do that than worry about the recording laws. They're fuzzy in family court and it's better to have a record of what happened for the police, since they may view it and decide she was the perpetrator.

If I had to summarize my experience dealing with N/BPDx, it's this: find the strongest boundary you can and put it in place. The family court system has this effect of either triggering or empowering BPD sufferers to create more havoc than I ever thought possible.

[david]

I live in Pa and it is not legal to record. I still do. My atty said to stop. I explained I was just recording myself to protect myself. I figured a judge could disregard anyone else that was also being recorded in the vicinity. If my ex claims I said/did/whatever. I have a video camera pointed at me that has the time and date on it. My atty thought about it and said to continue.

I was falsely accused (after three protection orders over the course of three years none of which were of any merit) of assault and put in jail for two weeks for disorderly conduct. When I was released I purchased a video camera and an audio recorder.

[ForeverDad]

Cases like this are considered 'ex parte' which means she got an order with only her claims as basis.  The court made no extensive validation but issued the order based on the concern you might be dangerous or whatever.  You should be scheduled for a hearing where you both appear in a few weeks, right?  That's where you can present your defense.  Meanwhile obey the court order in every detail.  Right now it has more Authority than any claims she might make or any pressure she creates trying to get you to respond.

At that hearing put forward as good a defense as you can.  Documentation is important.  (She will have to substantiate her claims but she might get away with just claiming to be 'fearful'.)  Bring proof of her subsequent contact, take a picture of it and print it out onto paper if you can't print it out some other way.  Document the past time she was not behaving well.

There are a variety of reasons that could have triggered her to do this.  This may be her way to retaliate.  She may be trying to reject/abandon you before you can reject/abandon her.  If there is a case already such as a divorce or custody struggle or  she is trying to justify herself to friends and family, then this may just be her trying to make you look worse than her.  However, she should not be misusing the system.  The general perception is that women are more likely to get away with doing this than men.

Most important, never ever admit to doing anything wrong, improper or untoward.  In other words, you have a right not to answer - or "I don't remember".  You also have a right to legal defense, legal advice and legal preparation too.  Also, it is usually better not to be expansive in your answers - Yes; No; I don't remember - you might dig yourself into a hole by talking too much or being too informative.  If you say, "Yes, but... ." (such as "Yes, but she did it first!" be fully aware the court can ignore the qualifications in your answer.  Remember, you're the one being scrutinized here, not her.  Unless you file your own case against her, it's just her case against you, that's all that is pending.

At the least, tell the court that you want any protection orders, if continued, to be RECIPROCAL.  If she wants you to have no contact with her, then you want her to have no contact with you. You can't just state it in principle, you have to state you have become 'fearful' of her actions too.

[enlighten me]

I would suggest you get the phone number for your local police station. If she turns up at yours as you say she is allowed to then dont answer and call them. Explain you have an order in place and you are worried she is trying to set you up. They probably will do nothing about it but it should at least be logged by them. If she does it a number of times then you will show a pattern. It will also show you are trying to abide by the order. Just a thought.

[david]

If you tell the police you are fearful they are required (at least in my county) to send an officer. They are then required to write a report. Make sure you ask for the report. That is viewed as objective in court.

[maxen]

In some states, you cannot record another person without their consent. Find out if NY is one of those states.

www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law

if you operate in New York, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation

[ForeverDad]

Even if you're in a restrictive state, you could view it as "I'm recording myself for self-protection so anything else picked up is incidental."  It may not work legally but in most cases the courts don't care, especially since these days there are a multitude of devices that can record, you don't need a microphone taped to your chest under a shirt anymore.   I've been here since 2006, in all these years I've only heard of a very few members where the court even got involved and generally it was just "stop it".  So, from one non-professional to another, go ahead and protect yourself.  Of course, never poke a microphone or device in the other's face or brandish it as though it was a weapon, just keep it out of sight or in the background, on the down low.  Odds are it probably will never be needed but you'll have it for 'insurance' and to help you sleep at night without undue worrying.

[NYMike]

Just chiming in here.I went to my Lawyers today and he is prepared for her.He said the ''anger texts'' I sent confronting her about manipulating the $300.00 from me and yelling at her on text calling her a Pathological liar and ''every dog has its day''.This is what done me in...

I admit I lost control and I am wondering if I did indeed SCARE HER.I am sure I did.I just wanted to know why she took 300.00 and then lied to me about so much.?... I will never get the answer.

Here is what I have to do to protect NYMIKE.

Step 1- ''neatly'' pack everything in boxes and took pictures and did inventory of all her stuff.

Step 2-  my T is going to write a report up for me to help me in court.

Step 3- STRICT NC... .

Step 4- you will all find interesting what my Lawyer found.He realized that this occurred on the 14th and she claims she was in ''fear for her life''... Why did it take till the 16th for her to file and why did she continue to ''text'' ON THE 14TH 15TH me even on the night of the 16th.?... .On the 13th why did she come over and tell me she loved me and cuddled with me if she is in FEAR FOR HER LIFE... .Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Step 5-I have to download all the text messeges she sent me to show that she WAS NOT IN FEAR... .


Does anyone know why she has gone this route to hurt me.?... .Why would she do this to the guy that cared so much and gave her so much and loved her so much... ?

[Aussie JJ]

Does anyone know why she has gone this route to hurt me.?... .Why would she do this to the guy that cared so much and gave her so much and loved her so much... ?

NYMike,

I can probably give you a answer using some of the theory, in time you will understand a bit of it as well.  At the moment, who cares why, she has done it.  It isn't acceptable for someone to say these things about you and all of that.  It is her problem why she did it not your problem.  Your problem is protecting yourself. 

I concentrated on the why instead of the protect myself.  Please protect yourself first and foremost at the moment.  Why can come later. 


AJJ. 

[ForeverDad]

Mental illness is illogical, even considering the emotional and other normal aspects.  Hers is a world of perceived extremes - PDs, after all, are when typical/normal 'traits' go to one extreme or the other.  She sees only two possibilities, she can either love you or hate you, nothing in between.  Black or White, no shades of gray.

It can be described, categorized, written up in textbooks, taught in psych classes, etc.  But it still won't make sense, it's a mental illness and by definition it can't appear normal.

It's possible she may calm down before the hearing.  If so, your lawyer can inform her that she can modify or withdraw the order if she wishes to communicate with you.  (Not that you will resume the relationship, but it could peacefully resolve the current situation.)  You can't ask your friends or others to communicate with her, likely your order prevents you from making such requests.

I'm thinking that if she's done it to you, then she may have done it before... .Do you know if she's filed such papers against other prior relationships?  If she's done it before then presenting those facts to the court could lend credence to your defense that it's not you, it's her and the history of her perceptions.  If you can convince the judge that she blew whatever you said/wrote all out of proportion and was not intended in such a way as she claimed, then it may be dismissed.

[livednlearned]

Does anyone know why she has gone this route to hurt me.?... .Why would she do this to the guy that cared so much and gave her so much and loved her so much... ?

The fear of abandonment makes BPD sufferers feel frantic. It seems like the more intimate the relationship, the greater the fear of abandonment -- whether real or perceived -- and that fear often drives a preemptive strike. They also cannot experiences opposites simultaneously (ie. being mad at someone and loving them at the same time). So once you are split black, and because feelings = facts, they go into defensive/protective mode.

Basically, it makes no sense.    But there is a disordered logic. It's not all random behavior.

On a side note, I've been in court more times than I can count (N/BPDx was a former trial lawyer and in 4 years we racked up 60+ filings). The most common thing I saw in family court while waiting for my own case is an ex husband or wife dealing with a protective order. I never saw one granted -- often the judge zeroed in on exactly what your L is saying. Judge always said, "Why, if you were so afraid, did you wait x days" or "Why, if you were so afraid, did you drive to her house to see if she was there."

I know it's anecdotal. But I do think that judges see a lot of people with bad problem solving skills using court to resolve their disputes (like people with PDs), so the onus is on the person filing to show the court that action is warranted.

[david]

I used to try to figure out the whys but felt like I was pounding my head into a brick wall. Eventually I stopped trying to figure it out. It is what it is.

I remember thinking if I could figure out the why I could fix it. When I stopped trying to fix it my thinking became clearer and I wasn't second guessing my every move so I wouldn't trigger ex.

She left in 2007. We divorced in 2010. I still get emails telling me what is wrong with me ? I haven't spoken to her in over three years. I only communicate through email and only reply to things pertaining to our boys. I never reply to "what is wrong with me" or any false allegations thrown my way in an email. 

[ogopogodude]

I live in Pa and it is not legal to record. I still do. My atty said to stop. I explained I was just recording myself to protect myself. I figured a judge could disregard anyone else that was also being recorded in the vicinity. If my ex claims I said/did/whatever. I have a video camera pointed at me that has the time and date on it. My atty thought about it and said to continue.

I was falsely accused (after three protection orders over the course of three years none of which were of any merit) of assault and put in jail for two weeks for disorderly conduct. When I was released I purchased a video camera and an audio recorder.

David,... .  one can record ANYTHING they want ... .(except for being a peeping tom video taping a naked woman in a bathroom). It is a matter of whether you may use the video camera footage in court is the real Q.  One will NOT be placed in jail for recording.  My advice is to RECORD AWAY ALL YOU WANT, ... .I did. Without it I would have been a frustrated father with his hockey stick in his hand and no way to play the game (sorry, ... but I live in canada).

Here in Canada, one cannot use video or audio content in provincial family court. Only written affidavits can be used in Family court. Unless one goes to Supreme Court (or both parties settle out of court) can one use video/audio content.  This how I was able to use my evidence: I went to Social Services (in our province in Canada, social services is called The Ministry of Children and Family Development) and showed them EVERYTHING ... .ALL the non-sense behaviour. Then they write up a report after they interview you, your ex, your kids (it only takes ONE parent to say "okay" to interviewing the kids, even if the other -BPD- parent says no to this). And then you get this report INTO court for a judge to see. This is EXACTLY how I did things. In other words, I got my evidence into court "thru the back door".

   I am a professional and I have to do things always in an intellectual way. It took patience and a lot of time etc ... .but now I am in a better place (with my kids living with me in my custody at all times). Judges do not like to have their decision-making influenced 100% by Social Services but a judge certainly CANNOT ignore it, as it is their azz on the line if they do... .

[ogopogodude]

Forgive me, other members here on the BPD forums, but I am a self-proclaimed expert on video taping and audio taping.  In my vehicle,  I have not one but two (always-on) car cams in a 24/7 fashion even in parked mode). One is mounted on the windshield that faces forward. And one is in the back-light/rear windshield facing backwards to record rear end collisions.  What is the point of all this?  They record onto a looping 5-hour memory card and record any shenanigans (domestic violence) anywhere near my car (usually in my driveway).  I also have a video cam mounted on my front door as well as inside my house.  I also video tape using my iPad. It is ALWAYS charged. As is my cell phone.

I have practiced over and over again with my portable devices on video taping so I have  become oh so proficient at it. One must protect oneself at ALL times.

All video content is downloaded (from time to time) and stored onto a hard-drive (usually a brand named called a "Passport" purchased at Costco) and then place into my bank safety deposit box. 

My ex knows I have some VERY damaging evidence in my possession. There is nothing, & I do mean NOTHING like possessing the nuclear bomb and being able to go to Defcon-1 when one has to.

I have a VERY good rapport with the local police department (as per instructed by Randi Kreger in one of her books) as well as many a health professional.  It is very wise to have lots of ammo if and when there is any question as to one's credibility when there is ever a domestic dispute or such.

[maxen]

Step 2-  my T is going to write a report up for me to help me in court.

very good.

have you seen this? bpdfamily.com About Personality Disorders and the Family Courts

Does anyone know why she has gone this route to hurt me.?... .Why would she do this to the guy that cared so much and gave her so much and loved her so much... ?

because she has borderline disorder. i know that posters above have already said this, but it bears repeating, not least to myself. i never got to the point of fully absorbing that fact, it's more that i got exhausted and also reached a point when it didn't matter to the divorce anymore. but i'm relatively rational, she's relatively not, and the difference was a kind of catnip to me.

[NYMike]

Hello Everyone.You are not going to believe this.Then again some of you will.

I ran into her today at the grocery store.Unreal I seen her and she seen me.I turned around and ran away and left my grocerys and went to my truck and got out.

I called a supportive friend and he said you better call the police.She may want to try to violate you.I said,no she would not do that,would she.?

I pulled over after talking to him and thank god I called the police.SHE DID CALL AND TRY TO HAVE ME PUT IN JAIL... .What the heck... .That just hurts to know this fact.This was a woman who told me soo muchhhhhhhhhhh and told me she would never ever hurt me... .

I almost got violated and sent to jail.The police said it was good for you to call and thank god you did.So I am good again and I need to watch myself.They filled out a report and I have it for the court date.

Again I ask.Did I do something so awaful to make her hate me to wanna put me in Prison.I did some wrong things out of anger but nothing that warrents HER HATE... .

[Aussie JJ]

You kept breathign and didnt die.  Simply put, the fact that your living causes her pain. 

The further you get away from her, detached the better.  By walking away form her you 'abandoned' or 'rejected' her.  Even though their is a court order their it sets her triggers off. 

Because you walked away and abandoned her, she felt bad, instead of facing her actions she calls the cops on you and files a report.  Dont stress, concentrate on yourself. 


AJJ. 

[NYMike]

You kept breathign and didnt die.  Simply put, the fact that your living causes her pain. 

The further you get away from her, detached the better.  By walking away form her you 'abandoned' or 'rejected' her.  Even though their is a court order their it sets her triggers off. 

Because you walked away and abandoned her, she felt bad, instead of facing her actions she calls the cops on you and files a report.  Dont stress, concentrate on yourself. 


AJJ. 

Thanks AJJ.

I did not realize that she would be mad that I did not approach her,thanks... When I looked up I abandoned ship and ran to my truck and got away.

Thank God I did call the police and got a report because she called them on me.WOW she must hate me and that does hurt.Why does she want to cause me so much pain.?

Somedays it don't make sence to destroy the one man that gave so much and cared so much.I would appreciate a woman like me... I would kiss the ground she walked on if she were like me.

[Aussie JJ]

Mike,

She has placed an intervention order or what not against you.  DONT engage, you may be tempted to talk to her because you think that then she wont complain.  No matter what you do you are in trouble in this situation.  Cover yourself and keep walking away. 

[NYMike]

Yes I have to keep walking because if I break one of those I am in some real serious stuff.

So far I have not got a call from the police.The police called her on Thursday to make arrangements to get her clothes and the dogs stuff.I have it all packed nice and neat and still nothing.

She told the police Sat or Sun and I have to work out of town M,T and W so I won't be here.Do you think she is going to come for this stuff today.?... Do you think she is holding me hostage by keeping this stuff here.?... .One of her complaints on the OOP was ''mike would not allow me to get stuff''... Hmmmmmm,well I have tried before and she would only take 2 things at a time and leave it all behind.I gave her plenty of chances and know I am doing it again through the police.

I am a bit nervous and embarrassed because of the neighbors that will be home watching this DRAMA unfold in my nice neighborhood.I hate this feeling.

[livednlearned]

Can you put her stuff in a storage locker and make sure she has access? It seems like you need a way to document that you made it possible for her to get her stuff, and she did not follow through.

It's awful when it comes down to their word against yours. The only thing that can help you is to have documentation that tells a different story than the one she wants to tell in court.

[maxen]

The police called her on Thursday to make arrangements to get her clothes and the dogs stuff.I have it all packed nice and neat and still nothing.

you might call the police to tell them it's ready and been ready, then document that you made the call.

She told the police Sat or Sun and I have to work out of town M,T and W so I won't be here.

do you have to work out of town? if not, call the police and tell them that.

One of her complaints on the OOP was ''mike would not allow me to get stuff''.

this is characteristic BPD other-blaming, it's the "feelings = facts" mentality. i was terrorized after my wife ran away about what she did assert and would assert. document, document. keep the police informed. nothing's true just because she says so.

[NYMike]

Here it is 1:12 PM and no calls from police or no police showed up.

I have been washing my truck and cleaning interior all day and now I am going to wash the Harley.So I have been home all day and I have it all packed nice and labeled for her.

So far no sign of anything.If I was a gambling man I would say she want's that stuff here for a later ''recycle''.This is just my fear.I am not sure but before the police got involved she had many chances to get this stuff.

She seemed to have turned it around to make it look like me being the bad guy.Here are some text messeges.

1- You are holding my stuff hostage

2- You stole all I ever had left in life

3- You won't let me get my things and you destroyed my life

4- You destroyed all I have left

5- You stole my mothers diamond ring and her jewelry box.


You all know I have the stuff here.It is all packed and everything she brought here is documented,labeled and pictures are taken.