Do BPD experience guilt at any time?

[Melted52]

Hello to all:  I've been having another difficult day. It's been 31 days NC with Husband. He did make two attempts at calling, but I didn't answer either time. The second call he left a VM, but I deleted it without even listening. I was too afraid to listen. I was afraid that if it was nice, I wouldn't believe anything he said. I was also afraid that if it was mean, that I would just start to cry.  I've also learned that he has been all over dating sites trying to snag someone into his web.  In fact, tonight he is meeting someone new. He's so starved for attention and sex at this point, that I just know he'll do whatever it takes to get her.  So this is why I'm having a really hard day... .knowing that he's going to be with her tonight.

My question is, does anyone think that someone with BPD will feel guilt after a new liaison? My husband and I have been married for 6 years, and together for 11... .with about 15 recycles across different states lines. I left on the morning of the 4th after he went to work, and after he had raged at me that morning and told me he hated me! I only left a note that said that I couldn't take it anymore, and I really couldn't!

[SlyQQ]

A lot of people say BPD feel guilt there memory is often so flawed I personally doubt this they certainly feel shame ( want to hide there actions an repercussions) but remorse? trying to make reparations ? saying sorry ? in my expierience these are rare, often false when they do occur or outright non exixtent

[Melted52]

So Sly, you're saying that while my husband is out with someone new tonight, and possibly even tomorrow after his date, that he won't even think about me or our relationship and feel guilty? Wow! If that's the truth, it really blows my mind. How?

[trappedinlove]

My ex admitted to me that she needs to detach from me because she feels guilty for not being able to reciprocate my love and provide what I deserve.

So she realized my needs and validated them, not really emphasizing with my pain, but rather realizing and focusing on her own emotions that were driven by her incapability and related guilt she couldn't bear.

[SlyQQ]

It is likely he blames you for forcing him away and you deserve it they often justify themselves to themselves ( it removes the guilt ) BPD are almost incapable of Blaming themselves and this makes them feeling guilty difficult scince it is not there fault hiding there actions or deflecting criticsm however makes it easier for them to continue doing what they do they are also able to "change " there recollections to fit there feelings very handy if you dont want to feel guilty an need to justify yourself

[Melted52]

Thank you Trapped. Is your wife able to reciprocate love to anyone new? You're telling me that my husband has already detached himself from me in his mind, like I never existed? How is that even possible?

Sly: Thank you too! What you said really made it click in my mind. He blames me, and I deserve his chasing down other women? It's my fault that he has to do this? This is how they justify their deviant behaviors to themselves?

Hmmmm.very insightful

[ogopogodude]

This is a darn good question ... .my (ex)wife from time to time encourages me (in cell texts) for me to get rid of all my videos (of her rages/temper tantrums) that I have archived and safely put away (at the bank safety deposit box).  She indicates to me that this will "set me free" etc, ... .  But I know that she knows that this is evidence of her past unacceptable behaviour. It's more like it will set her free, ... .not me. As well as take the weight off of her, ... .again, ... not me.  :)oes this mean that she experiences guilt now?  This is really a good question. If she was "normal" and did feel guilt or shame (by the way, I have a hard time discerning the difference between these two) about her horrible rage tantrums then why cannot she come out and say:

... ."I am very ashamed of my actions and my behaviour patterns that I inflicted upon you and the children. I am truly sorry.  In the past, I was very abusive & I realize this now, ... and that the videos and audio tapes that you have on me show that I was very abusive. I understand that you are keeping these tucked away for some reason. But I don't want you to, ... .I want you to dispose of them because I never want to be that person again.  I want you to help me "to never go there" ever again. Temper tantrums and uncontrolled rages are now to be a thing of the past.  I will never throw things at you or the kids, anymore.  I will act normal from this day forward."... .

But this will never happen.  A narcissist/BPD person will never do this... .  I am dreaming if I think that this will ever happen.  A funny little skit is on YouTube if one puts into the search bar "how to spot a narcissist lesson 1" ---> just watch this four minute video as it is quite funny but so very, very true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6xU_CPE310

[SlyQQ]

For me guilt is self centered an shame is something that is often external e.g. ashamed of a forbidden love you maybe ashamed to admit it but the degree of guilt maybe non existent

[Melted52]

Hi ogopogodud: I just watched the video. You're right! It brought an uh huh moment, and as much of a smile as I've been able to produce in many days. Thank you!

[ogopogodude]

Hi ogopogodud: I just watched the video. You're right! It brought an uh huh moment, and as much of a smile as I've been able to produce in many days. Thank you!

You're welcome. It is one of my fav videos.  I glad you enjoyed it.

As much as it is funny, ... .unfortunately in our lives, it is so bang on in its meaning or point that it was getting across to us non-narcissists.

[ogopogodude]

I think that what I personally get from that video is the "definition of insanity" (me doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the outcome to be different ... .meaning to try to rationalize to my undiagnosed BPD exwife).

[Blimblam]

My ex admitted to me that she needs to detach from me because she feels guilty for not being able to reciprocate my love and provide what I deserve.

So she realized my needs and validated them, not really emphasizing with my pain, but rather realizing and focusing on her own emotions that were driven by her incapability and related guilt she couldn't bear.

That's what it feels like what happened at the end of my rs

[Splitblack4good]

A lot of people say BPD feel guilt there memory is often so

flawed I personally doubt this they certainly feel shame

( want to hide there actions an repercussions)

but remorse? trying to make reparations ? saying sorry ?

in my expierience these are rare, often false when they

do occur or outright non exixtent

I think some pwBPD feel guilt but then cover it up with shame to self avoid it.

About 3 weeks after me and my ex BPDgf split up she walk in to our mutuel freinds house with my replacement and walked out within 2 mins . I was blocked on her mobile phone then at 1.30 in the morning just 5 hours after seeing her I got a text message from her saying " sorry about that earlier I didn't realise you were going to be there "  I'm not sure even now what she truly ment by that apology if it was guilt or shame or poss both how ever have spoke to her since and she has blamed me over and over again so any guilt she has felt has been passed on to me and she is feeling more shame now .

[trappedinlove]

Thank you Trapped. Is your wife able to reciprocate love to anyone new? You're telling me that my husband has already detached himself from me in his mind, like I never existed? How is that even possible?

Hi Melted,

First, she wasn't my wife, long story... .  never mind, and it doesn't matter much

I can strongly relate to what you described as I witnessed my exso in several occasions where I felt she is dissociated, as if she is a different person I don't know and totally detached from me as if she doesn't know me at that present moment.  In her case I assumed it is related to her FOO issues with sexual abuse during childhood where she developed dissociation traits as a survival tool to help deal with past traumas but along with BPD the dissociation tool is overused to generally cope with emotional pain of lesser degree.

Before being painted black we had a few conversation about our relationships where after each crisis (that I felt was way overblown in her mind) she would further detach from me.  She explained to me that she feels that a switch goes off in her mind when she feels hurt by something I do and from her experience it's nearly irreversible.  From her point of view it happens to protect and she can't rationalize or fully explain this mechanism.

For what it's worth, she seemed genuinely sorry about that and about the pain it causes me but she accepted herself with no guilt/shame/remorse with that regards and didn't apologize for her being the way she is. She did lough about herself saying "you know how hard it is for me to be me?"

Regarding multiple relationships and cheating, we did talk about this after our r/s ended and she told me how much she craves being in multiple, concurrent relationships.  At least until the main one becomes serious enough not to cheat on, yet her fantasy was to be able to conduct multiple relationships with several men who would fulfill different needs of her - sex, interest, love, sports, etc.  It made me sick to my stomach but I knew that a. she was triggered b. some would call that polyamoury and accept it as long as all parties involved know about all other parties and accept them and c. I loved her so much that I just wanted to help her and cure her, silly me

Anyhow, on the guilt/shame aspect of it, she did seem shameful about it (some describe it like a 3 year old being caught being naughty) and I appreciated the fact she trusted me enough to reveal this to me but:

a. She didn't consider my feelings when telling me that.  I believe she cognitively knew how hurtful I am and how I feel when she tells me about her other affairs (1. since I told her how much I am in pain when she tells me that and 2. she did hear my broken voice during these talks and admitted that)

b. The way she described the envious reaction of her then partner(s) with a weird grin on her face reminded me how disordered she is and not being able to perceive and emphasize with her partner(s) feelings of betrayal.  She was completely focused on her needs and her emotions and it seemed like to partners were objectified as mere tools to fill her needs.

[Theo41]

My feeling is that my BPDs behavior is frequently unacceptably bad and, because she's intelligent she knows it. She also believes that she can't or won't change. Therefore it becomes much more difficult for her to say "I'm sorry" than to blame it on me. "If you didn't behave the way you do and say the things you say, I wouldn't have a problem."

I actually bought it for many years. Ugh!

As for your husband, you have left him because you find his behavior intolerant. He's looking for a new partner on the dating websites.

Lay low and hope he finds someone else. Maintain no contact and try to stop worrying about his feelings for you. Look forward not backward. That's my suggestion. All best. THEO

[Theo41]

Meant to say "intolerable. " not intolerant:) Theo

[Melted52]

Theo: Thank you for sharing your experience. It always helps to know that there are others like ourselves.

"Lay low and hope he finds someone else. Maintain no contact and try to stop worrying about his feelings for you. Look forward not backward. That's my suggestion. All best." THEO

I know that this is the best advice, however that's my sticking point. How do I stop worrying about his feelings?

[Infared]

Mine showed no remorse whatsoever... .announced she was leaving a week before Christmas (not this year)... lied about new relationship that she was in... .was vindictive and cruel and clearly was enjoying the power and ability to hurt someone that she abruptly betrayed. Now that I know more, it is her usual repeated pattern.

... .but not a whisper of remorse or any empathy. Totally unbalanced."I got my new candy and the power (totally from him), to crush you", is all I witnessed. She was soo smug. Pretty sick.

... .especially considering that she never exhibited this behavior during a 5-yr. relationship...

I certainly wasn't perfect... .but I did not deserve that. I have never treated anyone like that... .that is for sure.

[jhkbuzz]

A lot of people say BPD feel guilt there memory is often so

flawed I personally doubt this they certainly feel shame

( want to hide there actions an repercussions)

but remorse? trying to make reparations ? saying sorry ?

in my expierience these are rare, often false when they

do occur or outright non exixtent

I think some pwBPD feel guilt but then cover it up with shame to self avoid it.

Not exactly... .guilt is feeling badly for something you've done, shame is feeling badly for who you are.

Many pwBPD feel a core shame, but the original post asked if if the husband would feel guilt for his new liason.  It's hard to know for sure, but you have to remember that many pwBPD are very good at dissociating their painful feelings.

I've found Jeffrey Young's "Schema Therapy" and the associated theory of "modes" that people (ALL people) operate from to be very enlightening.  While it is possible to operate from a "healthy adult" mode, there are many maladaptive modes that people operate from.

When we moved in together, my (waif) exBPDgf began operating out of "vulnerable child" mode. It's clear as day to me today, but it sure was perplexing when I was experiencing it - I didn't know what to make of it.  As she became unhappy in the r/s she switched to "angry/impulsive child" mode - and that's when the cheating and lying began.  Interspersed with all of this she would slip into "detached protector" mode, in which (in direct contrast to the soft, warm, needy "vulnerable child" mode) she would become cold and emotionless - because she was dissociating from her (overwhelming) emotions.  I also recognized the "punitive parent" mode - this was an internal voice that constantly told her how bad, fat, stupid, etc. she was.

So does your husband feel guilt?  Depends on the mode he's in... .

www.schematherapy.com/id72.htm

Remember:  BPD is a disorder of emotional dysregulation.  They can't regulate their emotions; they can't self soothe; they engage in impulsive (and often destructive) behaviors to make the bad feelings go away. 

You can have sympathy for the disorder while simultaneously having sympathy for yourself - and decide that you can no longer remain in the soul-crushing line of fire.

[jhkbuzz]

Theo: Thank you for sharing your experience. It always helps to know that there are others like ourselves.

"Lay low and hope he finds someone else. Maintain no contact and try to stop worrying about his feelings for you. Look forward not backward. That's my suggestion. All best." THEO

I know that this is the best advice, however that's my sticking point. How do I stop worrying about his feelings?

Hi Melted52, I'm so sorry for your pain... .we've all been where you've been and it's brutal. It's a very common experience in the beginning of the b/u to still be worried about our exBPD partner and how s/he is feeling, but the best thing you can do right now is remain n/c and take care of yourself.  You are traumatized in ways that you're not even aware of yet, and any contact with your ex will simply prolong your own healing.  Your "worry" about your ex will diminish over time... .it might take months. Be patient with yourself and take care of yourself, make sure you're eating well, getting enough sleep, exercising (you would be amazed at how much this helps), spending time with family and friends who love you... .you may be tempted to hibernate but DON'T.  Distract yourself as much as possible.

One of the BEST articles about a BPD r/s I've ever read is linked below - and trust me, I've done a TON of reading.  It's a very good explanation of what is happening to you right now and what you need to remember as the r/s is ending:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

I am 5 months post b/u and I still read it from time to time... .

[Theo41]

Melted 52, two suggestions separately or better in combination: 1. Get a good therapist that can help with the codependent issues most of us have. ( easier said than done and ia beyond the financial reach of a lot of us). 2, Begin attending CODA meetings ( they are free)  and get a Sponsor (it s like a big sister , usually a together person with 5+ years in the program). This is a great support system that can help you go where you need to go to take care of yourself. All best. THEO

[Melted52]

Theo: Thank you for the suggestions. I have already put in for an appointment with a therapist, but unfortunately will be waiting about a month for that. CODA meetings? I will definitely look into them in my area. Hugs to you!

[Trog]

If you're never wrong why on earth would you feel guilty? Everything is someone else's fault and depending on what mood I'm in, they are the devil incarnate and deserve to suffer or if my situation changes and I need them for some reason they are great again. Lalalalalalala I destroy everyone in my path and replace people like toilet rolls Lalalalalalala, and there are no repercussions ever, Lalalalalalala I'm so awesome... .La... .La... .Bluergh. 

[SlyQQ]

Some one posted interesting read on why BPD cheat it may well be worth looking at that thread

[Deeno02]

Melted, I literally was one week playing with her and her kids on her couch as one big happy family after 16 months together, dumped me, and a week later her old college buddy doing the same thing on the same couch. They just dont freaking care about anyone or anything but themselves.

[myself]

If you're never wrong why on earth would you feel guilty?

'Never Wrong' is a mask that's worn to try fooling not only the people they've hurt in their lives but also themselves. What's a deeper reason to wear that mask? To cover up what's underneath. Shame, pain, guilt... .

[Trog]

If you're never wrong why on earth would you feel guilty?

'Never Wrong' is a mask that's worn to try fooling not only the people they've hurt in their lives but also themselves. What's a deeper reason to wear that mask? To cover up what's underneath. Shame, pain, guilt... .

I'm sure you're right. I never saw her express guilt for anything she did to me, however I did see her a few times break down in a depression that she was 'a terrible person' but don't know what was triggering that. I would comfort her and say she wasn't, rather than be comforted by that I think she thought I was just an idiot who couldn't see her faults. It never seemed to work my comforting at all, that's very confusing when you do all you can to comfort someone and they don't seem moved by it.

I wish I hadn't bothered. She is a terrible person. And before everyone calls me out and say she isn't, it's the illness, I don't differentiate.