Really need a guide to communicating with hubby's uBPDew

[Crayfog]

I've read two BPD books. Going to therapy.

But what we really and truly need is a guide to handling her abusive behavior in THIS setting where validation and empathy won't work. Did I miss this in the lessons?

How do we handle excessive angry phone calls? And texts? And yelling in public in front of the children? And the children telling is about abuse in their other home? We usually respond with silence. We pick and choose our battles. But nothing ever feels right. I suppose it never will.

[Panda39]

I've read two BPD books. Going to therapy.

But what we really and truly need is a guide to handling her abusive behavior in THIS setting where validation and empathy won't work. Did I miss this in the lessons?

How do we handle excessive angry phone calls? And texts? And yelling in public in front of the children? And the children telling is about abuse in their other home? We usually respond with silence. We pick and choose our battles. But nothing ever feels right. I suppose it never will.

One technique my SO uses is to only communicate via email ONLY (phone if legitimate emergency only and no texting).

Communicating via email does several things... .

It slows everything down you can read the message and digest it. You can respond on your own time, I remember one member said that they wait a minimum of 24 hours before responding. Is the email something related to the kids or is it just a verbal attack?  If it's something legit regarding the kids then take your time and think about your response. Don't just give your usual knee jerk response. Try to keep your response short and polite.  If it's a verbal attack or other nonsense then just don't respond.

Communication via email also creates documentation of your interactions with the ex you might need that for various things... .courts, police, related to kids education, therapist... .you never know.

Communication via email also takes some of the emotion out of the interaction so you are able to stay calm and cool and respond from that place rather than hot and emotional.

My SO over time has been able to minimize contact.  He doesn't engage in the games and she doesn't get the drama she feeds on so interacting with him isn't as interesting, as satisfying, or as exciting.  

Phone and texting all goes by too fast you're often giving knee jerk responses, things escalate because emotions are high and there is no time to really think about your response or whether you need to respond at all.  Phone and texting can also be intrusive (my SO's uBPDxw practically stalks her children via cell phone and they like Pavlov's Dog are trained to always answer... .20 million times a day... .we have been working to help them create some boundaries around the phones but they have to deal with the FOG (fear, obligation & guilt) so it isn't a simple thing to just turn off the phone.

Sorry got a little side tracked  

As far as the public YELLING   I know other members have used recording devices to deter that kind of behavior. Hopefully someone who has can speak to that.  You could ignore her and just go on your way - set a boundary.  Tell her if she continues to yell that you will leave... .if she keeps going... .then leave.  Lastly, you could tell her that if she continues you will call the police... .if she continues call the police if things escalate to a place where you feel this is warranted.

I know how frustrating all of this is but there are ways to improve things.  Remember we can't change or control the ex's we can only change and control ourselves.  So maybe observe what you and your husband are doing during these interactions what can you both change to get a different result or shift how you feel about the interaction?

The 2 toughest things for me have been letting go of trying to control things with the ex and letting go of my anger. It took awhile and a lot of wasted energy and frustration before I finally was able to let go. I have been a lot happier and feel better by making those 2 changes in myself.  :)o I think the ex does despicable things you bet but trying to control her is futile (the exception would be if she put her kids in danger) and getting angry is only hurting me neither was worth my energy.

I know other members will have other suggestions for you.

Hang in there.

Panda39  

[11yearsToGo]

Phone calls = let go to voice mail

voice mail "noise" = silence

voice mail about kids = text/email a business - like response

Texts (nasty/off topic) = silence

Texts (about kids) = short, business - like response

Meetings involving yelling/abuse = walk away & refuse to repeat

I am a HUGE fan of email.   My ex and I baby-stepped our way from email to being able to speak face to face and actually stick to verbal agreements.  My DH and his ex... .total opposite!  She will NOT communicate any other way than face to face (so she can yell, insult, throw things, and go back on her word with no evidence).  So they parallel parent to the extreme (and to the detriment to my SD).  But sometimes that's what needs to be done.   Sometimes one bad apple spoils the bunch. 

If things tend to get heated in front of kids, get a parenting time schedule change where majority of exchanges happen at school dismissal (i.e  no parental interaction).  Times you are in the same place and kids present, be in a "big hurry" and "I will call you in a bit"... .then text "what did you want to discuss earlier?".   

Realize these people WANT/NEED to fight.  With some people, any and most interactions will become an opportunity to fight (if you engage).

[david]

It's been said here many times, "Negative engagement is still engagement". If negative engagement is the only form of engagement a BPD can use to engage then that is what they will do. Not reacting will eventually lessen the negatives.It took me a few years to get good at knowing when to engage and when not to engage. It took my ex a few years after that to minimize her attacks.I only communicate through email. Five to seven years ago I used to get about 35 to 40 emails a month telling me what was wrong with me. That is now less than 4 a month. That is significant improvement in my view. I never expect it to go away completely since we have two children together.

[NorthernGirl]

How do we handle excessive angry phone calls? And texts? And yelling in public in front of the children? And the children telling is about abuse in their other home? We usually respond with silence. We pick and choose our battles. But nothing ever feels right. I suppose it never will.

I agree with the others who say stick to email. DH warned his ex that if she was abusive on the phone, he would hang up. Then he did it. Then when she kept trying to call, he refused to answer any of her calls. He has never responded to her texts.

Once he got her to only use email, she would YELL AND SWEAR IN HER EMAILS! So he would return ones that we abusive and say "Abusive, unread." He did it a number of times, and she stopped sending abusive emails -- for awhile. She will slip back into sending them occasionally, but he has learned to read for anything of importance regarding the kids and respond only to that (if it's necessary.)

Here's a quick tip that helped my DH. He used to get very triggered by her abusive words. When his ex goes on a rant in email, he now turns around her words. If she says "You have been a horrible parent" he reads it as his ex saying "I have been a horrible parent... ." and he is less triggered.

DH's ex rarely yells at the kids in public -- she tries to make everything appear fine to others. She yells at them in their home. The kids are adults now and so the oldest understands he can just get up and walk away if his mom yells. The others feel sorry for her and are less likely to walk away. But DH helps them to see it is better to just walk away as quickly as possible and say nothing.

And when the kids talked about things that happened in her home, we tried to listen and validate their feelings. Focus on the kids, not on what their mom said or did. Say things such as "that must have been frustrating" and then listen.

The bottom line is that the kids need your help in learning how to manage their feelings, so set a good example. Give them hugs. Make it clear they can come to you whenever they are frustrated, sad, etc. DH has been told by several of the kids counsellors that he needs to be the calm and reasoned parent that the kids can rely on, regardless of what is happening.

Keep doing your best and the kids will be the better for it. 

[DreamGirl]

Have you seen this article?

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/stacer.pdf

To significantly reduce or entirely eliminate the anxiety for all of the family the parents should follow two simple rules for the first two years, in order to control the communication and contact between the parents. Even if a parent believes that there may be no reason to expect tension between the parents, the rules are designed to eliminate potential problems. The rules are as follows:

Number one: Eliminate all face-to-face communication between the parents (including telephone contact), for a minimum of two years.

Number two: All communication should be done in writing, using a memo format to communicate.

It's not to punish the other person by not talking to them. It's just to let everyone find their grounding. Let the tension ventilate.

My husband, his ex-wife (the pwBPD in my life) , and myself are all going to sit down this Sunday to discuss college options for my oldest stepdaughter. (The only reason I'm going is that I went through the experience with my oldest son last year).

And we'll use all those tools you talk about if necessary now.  

SET, DEARMAN, Validation, Time Outs, Boundaries, etc.

I also call my husband the "ex-wife whisperer" because he's mastered the art of using SET and Validation.

The thing is --- I couldn't have done that in the first two years. There was just way too much going on and a lot of mundane actions were taken as slights towards her.

You can still use all those tools in written communication, it's actually better to do so (with editing and time outs) because then you can gain the skills to do it in person.

I also never change my value system, I always said hello to her when I saw her. As soon as I saw her and the children were with me, I encouraged them to go say hello to her and I did it with excitement "Look! there's your mama!" Even when she did none of those things in return. And when she was yelling at me in public, I'd say something along the lines of "I'm not going to do this with you right now... ." and I'd walk away.

 

Sometimes if you respond with "silence". It's taken as passive aggressive because sometimes it can be. So you're right --- it's a big balancing act.

That's what having a pwBPD in your life consists of though.  

[Panda39]

Here's a quick tip that helped my DH. He used to get very triggered by her abusive words. When his ex goes on a rant in email, he now turns around her words. If she says "You have been a horrible parent" he reads it as his ex saying "I have been a horrible parent... ." and he is less triggered.

I really like this... .nice way to shift things around 

[Crayfog]

This is all awesome advice! Dreamgirl that article is perfect.

[livednlearned]

Sometimes I found that the interactions were frustrating because I didn't set a boundary. I don't know why telling him ahead of time what I was going to do when he did xyz made it easier for me, but it did.

My ex has very strong narcissistic traits, so some of my boundaries were pretty cut and dry. I think with people who are BPD, but have less narcissistic traits, it seems like validation might work a bit better when setting the boundaries. But either way, telling someone that if they do something that is abusive, this is how you're going to respond -- it can make the interaction feel less messy and exhausting.