Met The Other Man Tonight Finally

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm 43. 30 years ago, my mother had us go to family therapy, then abandoned me after one appointment. 25 years later, she told me that the T thought I was one of the most well-adjusted young men he'd ever met. My mom's depression was diagnosed the summer I was 17 and was about the leave the house. I had graduated high school. That was the longest summer of my life, even if I wasn't home much. I moved out the day I turned 18, having already started college. Technically, I moved out when I was 17, since I was born late at night. My mother only admitted to me this past summer that her T (her seventh one, I think) suggested that she was BPD. My current T said that he thought something else was going on due to her extreme hoarding. I started to think she was BPD, too, after coming here and beginning to process things. It was the last piece of the puzzle, and why now I know that I chose my uBPDx, despite the red flags from the first date.

She had been dX'd with depression in 2011. That Christmas was the suicide ideation day. I encouraged her to come out about her depression to her family. Things got better with them. For all of us, but something else was lurking in the background, and my FOO was always there as well.

After a 6 year r/s, my uBPDx called us "done." She broke up with me after I had worked all weekend (a first) and collapsed in a chair after I got home, exhausted. We'd been having major problems for the past 8 months. I "let" her go out, and two weeks later, I found out she was having some type of r/s with a 23 year old kid she'd met at a club. She was 31. I was 41 at the time. After not knowing what to do, we went to couples' counseling at the behest of her T (to whom she lied about having someone on the side based upon what my Ex told me about her sessions). To parallel my mother, my Ex also abandoned me after one joint session. She lured me there to "fix" me. Lied to him as well, based upon what little he told me of their two individual sessions. I'll give her credit for at least going to them, unlike my mom.

I finally called us done after I caught her still communicating with the guy. Cue four months of her all but throwing her juvenile r/s in my face, with me practically begging her to move out in order to save any friendship. That was all on my side. She wanted me to accept it and be best buds. We had S3 and D1 at the time. She finally moved out last Feb, after months of neglect of the kids. She denies it, but I documented what I could. The record is clear. I can forgive the cheating, but a year gone, and I still have much anger over her neglect of them. I had to witness their pain over a detached and sometimes absent and uninvolved mother.

She introduced the kids to him right after she moved out. It caused emotional problems with both of them within three months. All her. Not empathy, nor did she seek out professional or mature advice on how to do it. Only from so-called "divorced moms." I call them "dysfunctional moms," but that may be unfair. She wasn't truthful with anybody.

I served her with papers for custody. It wasn't much of a big deal. I had learned enough from the board to not trigger conflict. It worked. And I'm laid back anyway, perhaps too much so.

She recently left on an 11 day trip overseas, leaving me with now S5 (in a week, close enough), and D2. I took time off work to spend 24/7 with them, and it was great. She only called them once. I refused to set up a Skype account for her. The kids are not responsible for her feelings, and it was her choice to leave.

On New Year's Day, a secret squirrel sent me a text. I guess that she had gotten engaged over there. She returned 5 days later. She sent an email a few days later, saying she wanted to meet me. No one told me, not even her family I had hung out with. I beat her to the punch and said that a meeting wasn't necessary if it was just to tell me about the kids' proposed step-dad. She didn't answer that one for 5 days.

I telegraphed I wouldn't be there if he was going to be at the (her family) function today. It was my weekend with the kids. I had promised over a month ago that I would be there. She said, "don't worry about it." She kind of lied to me since he showed up just before we left. The kids were opening presents, and he tapped me on the shoulder. "Mr. Turkish? Pleased to meet you sir!" and stuck out his hand. I gripped it. He gripped it a little harder, so I responded in kind. He asked, "is it ok if I go in?" It was her parents' house. Bonus points for appropriately sucking up. He's young enough to be my son.

My Ex was still upset, since she had dropped on me half an hour before that he would be coming to our son's party next weekend. That would be her weekend with them. I got a little heated, and implied that he and I would talk. She said, "good, because he wants to talk to you." She said, "I don't want you to ruin S5's birthday." I said, "then it would be good for he and I to have a talk when I first get there apart from everybody." I also brought up some stuff about her neglect of the kids a year ago. Not productive. I probably shouldn't have done that, but I've stuffed everything for so long.

In any case, what a few of my friends said was right, and even what some people say here, affair partners or no (and some of you were the affair partner... .maybe he'll join us in a few years): This isn't them, it's our BPDexes. This isn't him. Guys and gals like that are out there, dime-a-dozen. Though I contributed to the breakdown of our r/s (since a relationship is two people, after all), her choices were 100% hers. I'm not responsible for her feelings or choices, and neither are the kids, nor her parents or childhood. This is her, as is whatever happens in the future.

So, ladies and germs, I don't really feel any anger towards him now, at least at this moment. I'll build a r/s with him as my new son-in-law the proposed step-dad to our kids, and go from there.

[Turkish]

I'm 43. 30 years ago, my mother had us go to family therapy, then abandoned me after one appointment. 25 years later, she told me that the T thought I was one of the most well-adjusted young men he'd ever met. My mom's depression was diagnosed the summer I was 17 and was about the leave the house. I had graduated high school. That was the longest summer of my life, even if I wasn't home much. I moved out the day I turned 18, having already started college. Technically, I moved out when I was 17, since I was born late at night. My mother only admitted to me this past summer that her T (her seventh one, I think) suggested that she was BPD. My current T said that he thought something else was going on due to her extreme hoarding. I started to think she was BPD, too, after coming here and beginning to process things. It was the last piece of the puzzle, and why now I know that I chose my uBPDx, despite the red flags from the first date.

She had been dX'd with depression in 2011. That Christmas was the suicide ideation day. I encouraged her to come out about her depression to her family. Things got better with them. For all of us, but something else was lurking in the background, and my FOO was always there as well.

After a 6 year r/s, my uBPDx called us "done." She broke up with me after I had worked all weekend (a first) and collapsed in a chair after I got home, exhausted. We'd been having major problems for the past 8 months. I "let" her go out, and two weeks later, I found out she was having some type of r/s with a 23 year old kid she'd met at a club. She was 31. I was 41 at the time. After not knowing what to do, we went to couples' counseling at the behest of her T (to whom she lied about having someone on the side based upon what my Ex told me about her sessions). To parallel my mother, my Ex also abandoned me after one joint session. She lured me there to "fix" me. Lied to him as well, based upon what little he told me of their two individual sessions. I'll give her credit for at least going to them, unlike my mom.

I finally called us done after I caught her still communicating with the guy. Cue four months of her all but throwing her juvenile r/s in my face, with me practically begging her to move out in order to save any friendship. That was all on my side. She wanted me to accept it and be best buds. We had S3 and D1 at the time. She finally moved out last Feb, after months of neglect of the kids. She denies it, but I documented what I could. The record is clear. I can forgive the cheating, but a year gone, and I still have much anger over her neglect of them. I had to witness their pain over a detached and sometimes absent and uninvolved mother.

She introduced the kids to him right after she moved out. It caused emotional problems with both of them within three months. All her. Not empathy, nor did she seek out professional or mature advice on how to do it. Only from so-called "divorced moms." I call them "dysfunctional moms," but that may be unfair. She wasn't truthful with anybody.

I served her with papers for custody. It wasn't much of a big deal. I had learned enough from the board to not trigger conflict. It worked. And I'm laid back anyway, perhaps too much so.

She recently left on an 11 day trip overseas, leaving me with now S5 (in a week, close enough), and D2. I took time off work to spend 24/7 with them, and it was great. She only called them once. I refused to set up a Skype account for her. The kids are not responsible for her feelings, and it was her choice to leave.

On New Year's Day, a secret squirrel sent me a text. I guess that she had gotten engaged over there. She returned 5 days later. She sent an email a few days later, saying she wanted to meet me. No one told me, not even her family I had hung out with. I beat her to the punch and said that a meeting wasn't necessary if it was just to tell me about the kids' proposed step-dad. She didn't answer that one for 5 days.

I telegraphed I wouldn't be there if he was going to be at the (her family) function today. It was my weekend with the kids. I had promised over a month ago that I would be there. She said, "don't worry about it." She kind of lied to me since he showed up just before we left. The kids were opening presents, and he tapped me on the shoulder. "Mr. Turkish? Pleased to meet you sir!" and stuck out his hand. I gripped it. He gripped it a little harder, so I responded in kind. He asked, "is it ok if I go in?" It was her parents' house. Bonus points for appropriately sucking up. He's young enough to be my son.

My Ex was still upset, since she had dropped on me half an hour before that he would be coming to our son's party next weekend. That would be her weekend with them. I got a little heated, and implied that he and I would talk. She said, "good, because he wants to talk to you." She said, "I don't want you to ruin S5's birthday." I said, "then it would be good for he and I to have a talk when I first get there apart from everybody." I also brought up some stuff about her neglect of the kids a year ago. Not productive. I probably shouldn't have done that, but I've stuffed everything for so long.

In any case, what a few of my friends said was right, and even what some people say here, affair partners or no (and some of you were the affair partner... .maybe he'll join us in a few years): This isn't them, it's our BPDexes. This isn't him. Guys and gals like that are out there, dime-a-dozen. Though I contributed to the breakdown of our r/s (since a relationship is two people, after all), her choices were 100% hers. I'm not responsible for her feelings or choices, and neither are the kids, nor her parents or childhood. This is her, as is whatever happens in the future.

So, ladies and germs, I don't really feel any anger towards him now, at least at this moment. I'll build a r/s with him as my new son-in-law the proposed step-dad to our kids, and go from there.

[Aussie JJ]

I'm at a crossroads that you seem to have crossed. 

I know their names, my son talks about them, has talked about them.  She has no idea that I am aware of these occurances.  I would probably be able to sit down and have a beer with them in another life, I recognise that, I would never be able to talk about her or our son with another man that would be involved in my sons life or her life. 

As to her, I feel nothing.  I dont know what that makes me, I recognise I am stuffing a hell of a lot at the moment.  Not pointing out her thinking, not causing conflict.  One day, I know it.  One day no matter how much I know I will have to say something.  I hope when that day comes Turkish I am as composed as you were.  I dont think I could contain myself if i really opened up. 

I already actually told her when trying to resolve matters, I never hit you, I never walked away, I never denied anything.  All i tired to do was work harder to fix issues that I was lied to about.  You can never say that I haven't tried, I am not turning my back on this, dont say I abandoned you when you did so to me.  I was pretty upfront, told her I wouldnt run nor huide and would work through any and everything. 

If I opened up properly without any SET techniques or anythign else involved.  I couldnt stop myself.  I think at present I am so unemotional towards her as a person I wouldnt care about the harm that would come from it.  One thing I do know, harm her I harm my son.  So that is what stops me. 


AJJ. 

[Turkish]

I don't think I was composed, AJJ. I said things to her before he got there to validate myself. I'm not ashamed, but I upset her. I know which buttons to push. As my T said, "she is who she is." I could tell she was still angry when she helped me take the kids to the car. I said, "see you next week," for S5's party. She didn't respond.

I pulled the whole Joe Carver bit a year ago to reduce conflict. Was it fair I brought stuff up tonght? I don't know. It's a process for us, and as long as we don't remain too long stuck, I think it's ok.

As parents, it's a whole other set of emotions to add into the mix. Very hard. Focus on our kids for now, but as they get older and find their own idenities, we need to find peace for ourselves.

[enlighten me]

Apparently my exs new bf is moving to our area. As she has apparently been cheating on him with her landlord and his girlfriend has confronted her in the school playground I think they will probably be moving in together away from where she now lives. Her bf is fifteen years older than her and her friends refer to him as her grandad. She hasnt even mentioned she is seeing someone to me but her going away all the time makes it obvious.  I hold no animosity towards him but im sure meeting him will be very upsetting when it happens.

[Perfidy]

Lol! Turk, you are one chill dude. I gather from your post that you are making some profound connections in your mind. That's very cool. Luckily I didn't have children with the BPDexgf. I have no reason to be in awkward situations involving her. I can't fault anybody for being who they are, after all, we really have no choice to be anyone else. I can respect others even if they can't respect me. It's not easy. Nobody said it was.

I admire you for how you handle your self. Good to hear from you.

[downwhim]

Turk, you are the one that has been dependable and constant for the kids. I admire that. You took the high road and I am sure you have stuffed so much trying to remain the adult and do the right thing.

Someday for all our effort I hope you are rewarded with a loving, kind person. You deserve it. We all deserve it here on this board.

[Turkish]

I'm really having trouble with this.

Two years ago, my Ex's dad got caught with yet another "kept woman." It was very painful for all of the kids. Her little sister in another state was even saying, "mom can move in with Ex and Turkish." I have a small 3 bedroom home. Our kids share a room for now. I thought, "whoah! There are 4 adult children in the family, 5 if I count the brother in college. Do I need to call a family meeting and be a bit harsh?" Her mom confronted the OW, face-to-face. That ended, despite all the kids telling their mom to finally leave their dad, even my Ex's uBPD older brother.

A few months after things cooled down, my Ex started openly rebelling against her mother (who's probably not BPD, but Parentified her daughter all the same). I think it was the biggest trigger of her leaving. She started acting like her father, and even admitted it to me on one lucid weekend where I thought there might be a slim chance of me moving over to the Staying Board.

S4's bday party is this weekend, hers. I think I will go, since at least the initial meeting with the not-so-new guy is over. Yet the whole affair, pun intended, still sickens me. It sickened me when he went into their house and her dad greeted him warmly. The family copes by denying and stuffing their emotions. Being the only child of a single parent, perhaps I can't understand this. Though one of my biggest faults is being avoidant, I value truth and doing the "right thing" above all.

I do value that the cousins still have their kids call me "uncle." Perhaps this is just the way it is. A friend, older and much more experienced than me, told me today, "I wouldn't go." I said that I might look weak for not showing up for my son's party. So I'm worried how others might view me? Perhaps.

I can't help but think, "what if her parents had split up, and then her dad brought the OW around as his new fiancée?" Our r/s doesn't equal a 38 year marriage and 4 more kids, but I think it's analogous.

I still need to talk to the kids' proposed step dad. My T told me what was safe to say legally and morally, and he said that as their father, I had an imperitive to lay out boundaries. It will be a short conversatin. Nothing about her and him. It will happen. It needs to, and based upon my 30 second impression of him, it will be ok. He's 18 years younger than I am 

I am thinking of just showing up in the evening, just before dark. I can hack a few hours. I know I triggered her the other night, but I'll just avoid talking to her. At D2's party last spring, I'm the one who spent most of the time with the kids anyway, especially in the jumper. Their mom spent most of her time talking to adults. It's just a difference between us as parents and people.

I will show up on my bike sport bike in full leather armor. I haven't been out on it in months, and the kids will like it. Plus: 

[enlighten me]

Hi turkish

Im in a similar situation with the kids. I try to split birthdays so that I have the kids  for some. If I cant see them on their birthday then i throw a party on the next weekend i have them. Its not comfortable for me to spend time with my exs and probably not comfortable for the kids.

By doing another party I avoid any uncomfortable meetings. I show my kids that they arent missing out because im not with their mum anymore. Another thing is my exgf throws lavish parties which are more for her benefit than the kids. This makes it even more awkward as she has all her friends around. Another thing i recently found out is my ex wife didnt even get my son a cake for his last birthday which is something i did for him. By doung your own party you can be consistent which is something a pwBPD cannot be.

[Turkish]

S5's party was today, at my Ex's mom's house.

I left the party early. She tried to guilt me into staying for the cake. I said that I had already said goodbye to the kids. I had stayed until dark, for the pinatas. They were surrounded by family and other kids. They were ok. She said, "but the picture is for S5 to remember." Her fiancee, aka The Homewrecker, was there. He was appropriately respectful when he greeted me, but I had had enough by being there for so many hours.  When he shook my hand, he clamped his other hand over ours, like he was a dear friend   I had my Turkish hat on. Mindfullness helps.


What I felt like saying was "S5 will remember that I played with him all afternoon. That I was in the jumper, comforting him when he was emotionally triggered and also when he got a little hurt. Pictures are just pictures. That's why when D2 got upset she grabbed you phone and called me [I was inside the house at the time] and when I came out, that she came into my arms for comfort." But that wouldn't have been productive.

I guess I am doing better at detaching. Her fiancee's buddy was there with his kid. Nice kid. I played with him in the jumper. My Ex's 24 yo brother and his younger gf were the only other adults who played with the kids. I saw my Ex get in for 5 mins. Maybe being a man in his early 40s it makes me childish to have spent probably 2 hours in there in total, but I feel comfortable with little kids. They're not fake. Besides, the 7 year old autistic cousin was in there being a little rough and I had to tell him to dial it down several times due to the 2 and 3 year olds in there.

I think I'm ok. Whether they actually get married or not is irrelevant. What will be will be. I'll deal with it then. This is the reality that I think I've been fighting on the inside emotionally for over a year. It's time to stop and let it go.

[Mutt]

What I felt like saying was "S5 will remember that I played with him all afternoon. That I was in the jumper, comforting him when he was emotionally triggered and also when he got a little hurt. Pictures are just pictures. That's why when D2 got upset she grabbed you phone and called me [I was inside the house at the time] and when I came out, that she came into my arms for comfort." But that wouldn't have been productive.

Top marks Turkish.

I'm sorry your ex was emotionally blackmailing you in front of the party members. Not nice.

You spent the afternoon being dad in the jumper and I think age is irrelevant.

I don't hear the fiancée doing the daddy stuff?

A child may gravitate to mom for emotional comfort over dad? I can relate, a family member pointed that out in our marriage that D9 ( D2 then and it didn't come to mind my wife was mentally ill ) would go to dad for soothing and found it peculiar she wasn't going to mom. We were on a weekend get-away and my ex had a borderline rage in front of my bio mom and my nephew and my kids. It's hard in a vehicle and it took D2 a long time to settle down. I finally got her calmed down at the bed and breakfast that evening.

I would like you to know I think you are a positive example of what to do post break-up when kids are involved with a parent w/PD. It's very challenging at times. Your words help a single dad going through a similar path. Thank you for sharing.

[Turkish]

Thanks Mutt. I don't think he's going to be much at all other than some fun guy they might hang out with. I just had a sit down conversation with her. She's having issues with S5. We had started out by discussing his emotional sensitivity and schools for next year. I discussed the book recommended here, The Power of Validation. She was receptive.

She said they and the replacement all sat down on the couch together the other night. S5 almost started crying. Said, "I miss Daddy!" I can't imagine what the other guy is thinking... .I won't go into it too much more. This is CP stuff. She wants me to solve this, and encouraged me to tell her what S5 says when he is with me. I wound down the conversation as I started getting angry. I'll deal with the kids. She wants to put S5 into counseling. I felt like saying, "you're the one who needs it!" I got my stuff, said goodbye to the kids and left. This is only going to get worse. She hasn't told them that he's going to be step dad yet. She said she wished she could change things. I got a hug out of her earlier. I brought up her dad, and she said, "I know. What he did is hanging like a shadow over all of this."

It actually elicited compassion out of me, but as you can see, I still need to keep up my boundaries.

[Mutt]

Shoot first. Aim later.

My ex tried to put the kids in T too.

Everybody else has problems.

It sounds like your ex may be seeing a fraction of her errors.