Weekend away

[Depression = 72% of members]

Been away for the weekend with a couple of friends and dont think BPDgf was too happy.

Spoke to her on the phone tonight when I got back and she seemed a little down. First and foremost because I didn't take her. Secondly, because she tried to call me and "I'm always there" and lastly because she thought I was avoiding her and she got scared.

I had actually booked the weekend a short time ago to take her away and given what's gone on the past couple of months, I wasn't going to let it go to waste. Never got around to telling her it was a weekend away for us.

I've also been telling her all week that I was away this weekend so Im pretty sure she was wanting to test if I could be away and still be there to do things for her. Friday I got a call to ask if I could pay her internet bill for her. It was cut off due to non-payment and she finally had the money to pay it. Obviously, not asking me to pay for it out of my money, it was hers this time.

Next phone call, she wanted to know if I would rewrite her resume for her since I did it for her last year. So given a Friday of needs, I had a weekend of silence.

She has called twice tonight to make sure I'm around this week. I dont know, this is the part that hurts real bad because I hear the sadness in her voice.

[Ripped Heart]

Been away for the weekend with a couple of friends and dont think BPDgf was too happy.

Spoke to her on the phone tonight when I got back and she seemed a little down. First and foremost because I didn't take her. Secondly, because she tried to call me and "I'm always there" and lastly because she thought I was avoiding her and she got scared.

I had actually booked the weekend a short time ago to take her away and given what's gone on the past couple of months, I wasn't going to let it go to waste. Never got around to telling her it was a weekend away for us.

I've also been telling her all week that I was away this weekend so Im pretty sure she was wanting to test if I could be away and still be there to do things for her. Friday I got a call to ask if I could pay her internet bill for her. It was cut off due to non-payment and she finally had the money to pay it. Obviously, not asking me to pay for it out of my money, it was hers this time.

Next phone call, she wanted to know if I would rewrite her resume for her since I did it for her last year. So given a Friday of needs, I had a weekend of silence.

She has called twice tonight to make sure I'm around this week. I dont know, this is the part that hurts real bad because I hear the sadness in her voice.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patientandclear]

It seems to me she doesn't know what to expect and that is super hard and causing a lot of touches to make sure you're still there.  What do you consider your status to be these days?  Can you give her some reassurance about what she can expect for the time being, if you haven't?

[Ripped Heart]

I considered my status to be undecided but you and Grey Kitty had other ideas   

To be honest, I really don't know. I've been consistent in telling her how I feel and she says she feels the same way. However, she needs to be on her own right now because she knows she has issues and needs to work through them. That's fair enough and I'm not putting the pressure on her.

However, if I allow her that space, she still keeps calling me babe, wants to hold my hand, hugs and kisses. Phone calls and texts every day. Gets upset if I'm not there to answer, is trying to mirror me in a big way. Is fearful that I'm avoiding her or that I'm about to abandon her because I'm getting on with my own life and doing my own things.

I know you have picked up on some of the mixed messages in my previous posts and mixed actions too. I think some of that has to do with the fact that I'm still trying to juggle between the two, getting on with my own life but also being there as and when she needs me to be. I can see how that would be confusing because it's like I can't say no to her but at the same time I'm emotionally detaching and moving forward.

As I've said all along, if she wants to be a part of that there is nothing I want more but at the same time I can't put my life on hold any longer. She sometimes calls really tearful because she remembers some of the places I took her last year, the things we did together and wants to do those things again. She just wants to be included but if I try and include her in anything it's like she isn't too bothered. So instead, I've gone with doing the things I want to do, telling her and giving her the option to join in, if she does that's great, if she doesn't, it's not like she has been excluded.

Next weekend with all 3 girls, I'm taking them bowling and then we are going for something to eat. I've told her I would really like it if she came with us and given her the option to do that. I'm still going to do that regardless but have left a place open for her.

One thing my T noticed is that no matter what I'm doing, if I have something planned, she will always use that time to call and need something. I've been as straight forward as possible, telling her that I have an appointment and my phone will be off between x and x. I'm not sure how else I can put that without her knowing what to expect. This is where I get confused around giving off unclear signals because I can't think of a more concrete way to put that.

[formflier]

 

Is there something about the status of your r/s now... that entitles her to need to know when you have appointments?  Or when you have plans that don't involve her.?

[Ripped Heart]

That's just it formflier, I don't know what the status is because her actions don't match her words and change constantly through the day.

I'm just trying to get on with my life and do my own thing. If I was to be brutally honest, it's like she wants aspects of the r/s such as me organising her bills and debts, taking her out to events, evenings out and even vacations but without the extra elements that make up a relationship. She wants someone to talk to when she has had a bad day or feeling down, all the things I would usually do anyway but I know it's all one way and she isn't wanting to commit to anything at this moment in time.

However, she still wants to know what I'm up to, where I'm going, who with and again all the usual things that come with a relationship. So it does feel like it did for the past several months which is why it's probably a little confusing right now.

Given she has mentioned needing to sort herself out, what would be my best approach in taking a back step to allow her to do that but at the same time, not playing into the game or playing on her own fears? Again, something I'm probably sending mixed signals with when I try and talk about the situation.

[patientandclear]

I'd describe it, as often with BPD, that she wants you to be married to her but she doesn't want to be married to you.  It's a weird not-at-all-reciprocal set of expectations.

I think one dynamic you've got going on right now is that she is chasing chasing chasing.  She's picked up that you are less dependent on her emotionally and might have or be developing some other emotional options, and the anxiety that prompts is pushing her to grab onto you.

I wouldn't confuse that with "improvement," if that makes any sense, which is the theme I think I've been resisting in some of your recent posts.

Sure, compared to Christmas and just after, you're in a stronger position and she is not sending clear "leaving" signals.  But I don't think this is because she is engaged in any healthier dynamic.  YOU are mostly acting in a much more healthy, emotionally independent, way (though I still think you are trying to be a lot of different things to her at once and that is ultimately going to cause problems).  But she is not looking "healthier" to me.  She is looking anxious and like she is in pull mode because she senses you are not anchored to her in the same way.  This is not an attachment getting more secure, in other words.

It's easy to confuse chasing prompted by someone's abandonment fears for affection and commitment, but they are not the same.

I could be wrong of course -- you're there, I'm not.

[Ripped Heart]

I do owe a lot to you patientandclear because you always challenge me to think and pull me up on where I'm going wrong so I thank you for that 

It is difficult because I don't always get the right words out, what I think and what I say don't necessarily match up at times and I can find myself getting caught up. I'm just thankful for people like you who point it out when I do.

Yes, my T also believes I've come a very long way in the past couple of months in terms of being able to recognise things now but implementation is small steps right now. I'm going to make mistakes but I also can't allow myself to get caught up in the loop of over analysing them either.

I do think that this past week has changed the balance and I kind of get torn between seeing an improvement and wanting to rush back into things. It's taking a lot of effort and energy not to do that and keep my focus on improving myself rather than improving on the hope things return to normal. This weekend away, I actually left my phone at home because I just knew I would be checking it or wanting to text so without it I couldn't do that and had 2 days where it didn't really cross my mind. I enjoyed being in the moment and spending time with my friend because we used to do weekends away many years ago so it took us both back to that time.

It is definitely having an affect on BPDgf too because last night she had concerns and asked if I was avoiding her. I simply responded and said, not at all, I'd just been away for the weekend.

This morning I got another text from her "You always know how to say the right words and write the loveliest things. You are so sweet and so talented and I just wanted to say thank you xx"

It's the words I wanted to hear from her but I completely understand your comment about chasing because of abandonment fears rather than affection. It's very difficult to see when you just look at the words but when put in context (I was unavailable for 2 days in Paris and she didn't have me to offload her needs) it does appear to be more about chasing her abandonment fears.

Found out some very interesting news this morning from mutual friend. It appears that whilst I was away, she made contact with an exbf on FB. The huge problem there is exbf is heavily in to drugs, was extremely violent towards her, ended up in prison for hitting another girlfriend, smashed her old car up. I guess that's not exactly what I wanted to hear because I see trouble ahead. My mind says if that's the route she goes, it is her responsibility to deal with the outcome. My heart wants to jump in and rescue her from it but I know that's not my battle, it will be hers.

[Notwendy]

RH, your gf is doing what it typical of borderline behavior- the push -pull dance, and you are doing it with her. When you get close, she pushes you away. When you take care of yourself- your appointments, trips, interests, then she ramps up her "pulling" you in behavior. She may not even be that aware of this. What you see as "improvement" is the increase in her chasing you. However, real long term improvements for anyone - people with or without issues- takes consistent work over time and is not dependent on what someone else does, but a result of self growth.

If she is doing the dance, why wouldn't she think you are doing it too- in the r/s with her?

I think your decision has to come from what you want to do. This is who she is. Your being in a r/s with her has to be a decision you make with the full awareness that this is what it is, not what it might be if she improves or not improves.

I think you also need to decide what you wish to do for her. Does she really need you to pay her bills for her?

As to the Facebook BF, that is her decision to make and you can't rescue her from him. However, you can be aware that he may be in her life.

[formflier]

 

I wouldn't mention the FB boyfriend thing... .if she brings it up... .fine... .just remember... .it's her deal.

[formflier]

  Again, something I'm probably sending mixed signals with when I try and talk about the situation.

What if you talked about the r/s less... and "did" the r/s more.

What could that look like?

[formflier]

 

Decide what things you want to do for her... .and what things you will cut back on.

For instance... .resume... .if you did it for her last year... .maybe this year limit it to giving advice and proofreading... .

You are still helping... .but she is growing and taking on more responsibility.

[Ripped Heart]

What if you talked about the r/s less... and "did" the r/s more.

What could that look like?

To be perfectly honest, I don't know. It's not like we live together and it's been really difficult to try and "do" the relationship.

It all came to a head tonight, tears on both sides.

As PatientandClear stated earlier, I do now believe that her actions and words have been more out of abandonment fears. Tonight she was a little upset so called because she feared something was wrong. I haven't been "chasing" her lately so it's caught her off balance a bit and thought I might be going off her.

This is the part of the illness I struggle with the most because if I do chase, she backs off. So this past couple of weeks I have stopped chasing but also reminded her that my feelings haven't changed. Taken her out on dates, been there to listen when she is having a rough time and done the best I can with what I have without sacrificing myself in the way I have been doing.

So tonight she was really upset because she thought I was going to leave her and then followed up by saying she doesn't mean to be so cruel, she has no control over it and is really struggling to keep it together. That part of her backing away has to do with having no control over her feelings and she is really afraid right now.

That set me off then which then upset her more because she could hear I was hurting. I then made the situation worse by stupidly suggesting I take a step back and give her time and space to work out what it is she wants. Right now she knows what she wants but she's afraid and it's the fear which keeps pushing away and something she says she has no control over because it's too painful to think about. She says she knows what it's doing to me but that just makes her feel worse so she tries to avoid it at all costs.

Things settled down before she went to bed so I guess we see what tomorrow brings. In terms of what "doing" the r/s would look like, I honestly don't know with what I have to work with right now.

[Grey Kitty]

I considered my status to be undecided but you and Grey Kitty had other ideas   

 I'd agree with undecided. I'd add that you are starting to work away from being completely enmeshed, like you were with her. Believe me, I understand how hard it is to shift out of that. I've been trying to do less of that for over five years in my marriage now!

You do sound like you are making a lot of progress on figuring out what you want.

And one thing you clearly don't want is to participate in the push-pull game your GF plays.

Her admission that she has no control over her feelings is a start of some kind of awareness. If she follows up on it with action, that could lead her to real change. Or not.

Is this kind of insight new for her?

[Ripped Heart]

That's my trouble, it only takes one word, tears or hearing the pain in her voice and I struggle to hold myself back.

I'm making progress but finding it so difficult to do. Especially when she found out I was in Paris and was upset that I hadn't taken her. Its hard enough because those were the things we did together and something she commented on to a friend of hers that she wanted to keep those things going.

I guess in some ways I enforced a boundary there because I can't allow her to pick and choose what bits she wants but that I dont have a say in my wants and needs. Its also tough because those things are open to her but it's difficult right now for her to do anything at all.

The admission is not a new insight. She told me at the very beginning that she had been diagnosed with a PD and had major abandonment issues. So given I was once married to pwBPD/NPD you could say I went in with open eyes. The difference being my ex would never know or take responsibility where BPDgf would.

When BPDgf has made nasty comments or raged, she will at least apologise but also describe that she has no control. Another difference is she shows some awareness and insight but not really does anything about it. I think that's because she doesn't know how and that it is too painful for her.

I think she mentions it more to me because past boyfriends (and friends) have classed her as immature, crazy and all sorts of other names. I'm the first person who has ever taken the time to try and understand her and instead of raging back, try and comfort her and validate her feelings. That's why she is more open with talking to me about it but it doesn't change her actions.

[formflier]

When BPDgf has made nasty comments or raged, she will at least apologise but also describe that she has no control. Another difference is she shows some awareness and insight but not really does anything about it. I think that's because she doesn't know how and that it is too painful for her.

I think this is an area ripe for SET.

or SE SE SET... .or some variation.  The "truth" part is that she can control her behavior.  She may not control her feelings... .but she can control her behavior.

Where is she at with getting treatment for BPD?

[Grey Kitty]

That's my trouble, it only takes one word, tears or hearing the pain in her voice and I struggle to hold myself back.

 Caring that much is a beautiful thing.

Not forgetting yourself at a time like that is the new and challenging area for you.

[Ripped Heart]

She isn't getting treatment formflier, that's the hard part. She did a few years ago and went a few times, was able to put together a chart of how her emotions and feelings worked because she showed me what she was able to understand. But then, like everything else, she just gave up on it. She seems to take up things for a couple of weeks and then gives up on them.

I've tried to use SET with her a few times when she is in one of those moods. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but that could also be down to me. She does recognise that I make the effort even when I do get it wrong. Other times, if it comes in an enclosed space, I focus on something else and not let it get to me. Remain calm and she eventually calms down too.

The only time I we ever clashed was the time she was meeting my eldest daughter for the first time. My daughter wanted to do a specific activity and BPDgf didn't so wanted me to change it to something she wanted to do. I tried SET then and even tried to figure out a compromise that suited both of them where we could do both things on the same day, start with what BPDgf wanted to do and end with what daughter wanted to do.

She wasn't happy with that and decided she wasn't going to go. It was literally a child having a tantrum and I stood my ground on it. Explained that it didn't really matter what we did that day, the important thing in all of this was spending time with d14 and them finally getting to meet. If she didn't want to go, that was fine but I was not going to let d14 down. It caught her completely off guard and she said several times afterwards that she never expected me to act that way.

I didn't raise my voice, or sink to that level of arguing, I just stood my ground and if she wanted to have a tantrum, it wasn't going to spoil the day with d14. I felt terrible afterwards but it definitely felt like a tantrum of making a choice between her and d14 and I don't think she liked the outcome even though I did try and reach a compromise.

[Ripped Heart]

Another pattern I recognise is that when we have had one of her upset moments and she is feeling vulnerable, that's when I usually get something through to test that I still care by "needing" me.

Given the events of last night, it was no different. Text message at 3:30 this morning because she was in a major panic. She thought someone had broken into her house and didn't know what to do. A few things wrong with that. First, it was a text message rather than a phone call. I can understand if she genuinely believed someone had broken in that talking on a phone might make things worse but the chances of responding to a text at that time of the morning are slim. Just happens I was still awake.

Second, if someone has broken into your house, I would have suspected the police are the first people you contact, not someone 70 miles away who can't do very much.

Third, if you were to contact someone else, wouldn't you go for someone who lived a little closer, such as a friend.

Either way, I calmed her down and soothed her whilst we tried to figure out if someone was in the house. It turned out that the cat jumped on the TV and the TV fell down and smashed. So no more TV. For those of you who saw my previous post last week, there was some discussion around her looking at a new TV and dropping hints for me to buy one for her. I don't doubt for one minute the TV is genuinely broken and maybe the reason she contacted me was because I predicted this happening 2 months ago. Maybe I'm going to start hearing more about the need for a new TV and the hope I might come to the rescue.

It's definitely a pattern I see when she fears I'm moving too far away. First the need for me to rescue her and then the need for me to soothe her and finally the need for me to make everything better again by taking care of the problem.

[Grey Kitty]

Geez, it is hard to think on your feet at 3:30am.

Honestly, I would try to set up my phone so I don't even hear texts at 3am!

If I got a text like that at 3am, I would probably do one of three things:

A: Text back ":)ial 911."

B: Calm myself down, go back to bed, and when I get up at a normal time, call her and as if she is  OK, pretending that I really didn't get it 'till the morning!

or (in my case!)

C: Genuinely sleep through it, and deal with it in the morning.



Do you really think her cat did knock the TV down? Most cats I know are graceful, know where their butt is, and don't do that sort of thing by accident often.

Given her prior attempt to manipulate you into buying her a TV, that seem suspicious.

[formflier]

Given her prior attempt to manipulate you into buying her a TV, that seem suspicious.

This is where I am putting my money... .

[Ripped Heart]

That's my suspicions too, especially with the turn of events tonight.

I've taken your advice from previous posts formflier and not jumped in to buy her a new TV. The part which concerns me is that had her friend not mentioned anything before the conversation started the other week, I probably would have.

I have a good job and a really good salary, in a previous r/s I couldn't expect exgf to meet me half way with all the bills so the way we worked things was on a percentage. For example 60% of both our salaries went into a pot for the bills and the kids, 20% for emergencies and 20% for what we wanted to spend things on ourselves. Doing it that way felt fair because it was an equal contribution even if not in terms of finances.

The issue with BPDgf is that I can earn in a month what she earns in a year so there is a huge difference. It's hard to watch someone struggle when you know you can sort something out straight away. That's where my issues stem from. We were very poor growing up and had nothing but the basics. I worked for everything I had because there was nothing in terms of an allowance. My money went on contributing for my sister and my mother.

My father lived and worked abroad and when I was 17, before I joined the army, I went to live with him for a year and work out there for a company. My father left when we were young and never contributed anything towards us. However, I was expected to give him money for me staying there, something that concerned my sister more than it did me. So I'm used to working to provide for others and still have that 20% a month that I spend on myself.

I can afford that if I want a weekend away to relax, I can do that but I also feel guilty for doing it when I know people that I love and care about are struggling. So this issue around the TV has been really difficult for me.

I've stuck to being supportive and also doing things such as searching to see if I can find something that is affordable for her, which won't create too much of a dent. Tonight she was a little stand-offish and said it's because she's feeling numb right now. This was following a text she sent earlier.

":)on't worry about the TV, I'll sort something out. You can't fix all my problems . I'll do it x"

So I think she might be a little angry with me because I've offered a different type of help to what she is used to.

[formflier]

 

I'm making some assumptions here... .but it appears that you have learned from experience. the value of money and how to take care of your money... .and things.

While I'm sure you had some hard times... .those lessons have stuck with you.

Please let others learn from experience as well... . 


PS... .don't worry about her anger... .or lack of anger... .over your choices.  If you are making healthy choices... .make them... .and don't look back.

We can help you sort out if the choices you are making are most likely healthy ones.

Hang in there... .I enjoy reading your posts... .you are doing a great job laying them out... .they are very understandable.  Keep up the good work.

[Grey Kitty]

":)on't worry about the TV, I'll sort something out. You can't fix all my problems . I'll do it x"

So I think she might be a little angry with me because I've offered a different type of help to what she is used to.

You can do a beautiful thing here, in the course of retraining her In addition to being good for her and your r/s, it is a wonderful way to take out a tiny bit of anger at her messed up behavior:

When she says one thing to you... .and drops a load of guilt trying to manipulate you into doing the exact opposite of what she says... .this EXACT situation... .

Believe what she says.

Respond to that.

Very carefully notice the manipulation. Pay attention to how it makes you feel. Be aware that it makes you feel guilty. Be aware that she is trying to make you feel guilty.

And then very carefully respond as if the underlying guilt message doesn't exist!

Eventually she may figure out that doing this to you doesn't work and stop trying. Geez, how tough would that be on you! <sarcasm>  If you are truly lucky... .she might try asking directly for what she wants!

Sometimes I do something like this... .and internally chuckle in a really evil way about what I'm doing.