How to deal with a NPD/ASPD-Father?

[Maternus]

I had no contact to my father in the last two years. And very low contact to my family, since my uBPDex was isolating me. After the breakup with my UBPDex I began to understand how dysfunctional my whole family is. Initially I thought my father is a pure narcissist, but the more I read about Cluster-B-Disorders the more I think he is a psychopath, an emotional predator. My sister told me about things he did to her daughter in the last two years, that were incredibly brutal. He ruined my self esteem when I was a child and now he ruins the self esteem of his grandchildren. I think I have to stop him, but I don't know how. Nobody believes me, my sister knows about all the things he did to us, but she believes he had changed. He often says he regrets the stuff he did when he was younger, but he never shows true remorse. It's like he was saying "Oh, I forgot to buy the milk." And he never talks about his emotional crimes in detail, it's always "all that stuff" and it's history and we should forget about it. But he hasn't changed, he is still doing "all this stuff" to his grandchildren and nobody wants to see it.

[Kwamina]

Hi Maternus,

Initially I thought my father is a pure narcissist, but the more I read about Cluster-B-Disorders the more I think he is a psychopath, an emotional predator. My sister told me about things he did to her daughter in the last two years, that were incredibly brutal. He ruined my self esteem when I was a child and now he ruins the self esteem of his grandchildren.

Could you tell us some more about the things your father has done to your sister's daughter? And how old is your niece now?

You say your father ruined your self-esteem. Have you since been able to undertake steps to heal some of your inner wounds? Perhaps it will help to take a look at the Survivors' Guide for adults who suffered childhood abuse. You can find it to the right of this message board.

I think I have to stop him, but I don't know how. Nobody believes me, my sister knows about all the things he did to us, but she believes he had changed.

... .

But he hasn't changed, he is still doing "all this stuff" to his grandchildren and nobody wants to see it.

Have you told anyone about what your father did to the two of you and what he is now doing to your niece?

What is the living situation of your sister and niece? Do they live with your father?

[Maternus]

Could you tell us some more about the things your father has done to your sister's daughter? And how old is your niece now?

Hi Kwamina,

my niece is 12. My father gave her extra lessons in maths. He is 69 years old and long out of school. My niece told him how she has to solve the arithmetic problems but he insisted on doing it the way he learned it and threw temper tantrums on her, called her a stupid child, just because she was solving it the way she learned it. After that he told her and everyone in the family what a stupid child she is, that she will never graduate and manage to get a job.

She was saving her pocket money to buy a game console. He told her, he will buy her game console for her birthday when she spends her money for skiing gear, so he can go skiing with her. He never did. On her birthday he drove with her to a consumer electronics shop to buy the gaming console, but when he saw it in the store, he raged and screamed "What, I shall pay xxx bucks for this piece of crap?" He was rubbishing her in the market in front of all the people there. It was her birthday, and she was looking forward for so long to get this console. But all she got was a big disappointment and the unpredictable rage of her grandfather.   

You say your father ruined your self-esteem. Have you since been able to undertake steps to heal some of your inner wounds? Perhaps it will help to take a look at the Survivors' Guide for adults who suffered childhood abuse. You can find it to the right of this message board.

Yes, I think I'm on the right way. I still have to go some miles, but to know, that it's not me, who is crazy, helps a lot. The last time my father was abusing me was when he visited me in the hospital five years ago. I had a bad attack of pneumonia and couldn't hardly breathe. He told me it was all my fault, the way I live, the things I eat, that I'm too fat  (he is a sporting ace) and my wife is also fat. It would be better if I file for divorce. It's never good to stay too long with one partner and so on... .He never dared to talk to me that way in the years before, but I was defenceless in that situation. 

Have you told anyone about what your father did to the two of you and what he is now doing to your niece?

Yes, everybody in my family knows what he does, but he always gets away with his craziness. They accept his behaviour because their mostly disordered themselves. My family is a Cluster-B-Cluster revolving around the psychopathic black hole, who's my father.

What is the living situation of your sister and niece? Do they live with your father?

No, they live together with their father/husband, who has lot's of NPD-traits. He's the one who is charming my father back whenever my sister has managed to go LC with him. She knows that our father is no good company for her children. But she values family and her father is part of her family and she thinks she knows how to deal with him.

[Ziggiddy]

Hi Maternus

Wow. Sounds like some awful situations there. unkind at best and abusive at worst. I'm sorry that you and your family have been through so much pain form this.

I identify with a lot of what you say - my father is quite a piece of work too. It saddens me deeply when the abuse is carried over to kids. And that includes kids who are adults now.

my father was big on patronising, sarcasm, criticising and humiliation so i know what you mean about the blows your self esteem has taken.

And yes it is a good thing that you are seeing that the source is not you at all - normal people simply do not get involved in that kind of tearing down.

Sounds a lot like he was projecting on you when you were sick in hospital. Often disordered people do that to distance themselves from the ugly things they see in themselves and can't tolerate. I hope you really try and internalise that - it will help you a great deal in your healing to understand how that dynamic works. It can be difficult to separate the criticism from the reality.

It will be important to support your niece and sister too by emphasising reality and helping them understand that the actions are from a mind that is not healthy and has nothing to do with them at all. You probably already know this.

If I had a wish for my childhood it would have been that someone had stepped in and explained that to me. it may have saved a lifetime of self recrimination.

As far as 'nobody wanting to see it' it can be very very hard for people around someone like that to voice what they are feeling or seeing - it doesn't mean they don't seeeit - sometimes it's just a passive response. Take heart, maternus - there's probably more people see it than you might imagine.

in the meantime, as the Big Bird recommends, it would be worth your while focussing on your own soothing healing and restoring your heart and soul as best can be.

The more you can educate yourself on the issues the better you will be able to heal.

You might wish to review the material in our library of resources here.

I would recommend finding out about setting boundaries and understanding how disordered people use fear, obligation and guilt to affect others.

I'll post some links here:

Article 16: Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

Do you have some ideas about healing your self esteem, Maternus? Are there particular ideas or skills in doing that that you have found helpful?

I hope you can find success and peace in your endeavours

Ziggiddy

[Maternus]

You probably already know this.

Oh yes, there's some irony of fate in the whole story. After I left my wife and replaced her with my uBPDex  (yes, I was replacing her - and today I see, that it was an immature breakup) my father slowly snuck back into my life. He played the grandfather for my UBPDex's children, helped my ex to move into my town and so on. I had a temporary job at this time and planned to become self-employed. He didn't agree with my decision and came around to tell me and my ex that he thinks, we should end our relationship, because we are moving in the wrong direction. I told him "You're nuts" and and bumped him out. I was desparate the whole day and night, I told my uBPDex about the emotional, physical and sexual abuse I had to suffer. And she was so sympathetic.

I kicked my toxic father out of my life - but I also cut my last link to my family. I thought, that it was a step into freedom - but for my uBPDex it was the last step to isolate me. It was not exactly on that day, but in the following weeks, she started to devalue me more and more. And she knew how to handle me, she knew where I was vulnerable. I trusted her and opened my deepest self to her.

[Maternus]

I saw my father today and experienced the most weird attempt of manipulation ever. I'm 45 and I don't have a driving license. I never liked driving in a car since my childhood, because of the reckless driving of my father and the stench in his car. He was a heavy smoker at that time and used to smoke when he was driving. Car rides always made me sick. When I was about 20 I decided that I don't want and don't need a driving license. But when I was about 35 my father started to lure me back whenever I went LC/NC with sponsoring the driving license. I didn't knew how disordered he is at that time, but I knew I can't trust him. And I really didn't need a driving license, it was my decision to live without a car but he never accepted my decision.

Today he started again with the driving-license-topic. My sister and my mother (they are divorced for 40 years) were present. I said "No, thanks. I have other plans on my agenda." His response was "This was what XY (the father of his SO) keeps telling me. But he died last monday." We all were shocked, but he smiled. "No, don't worry. Everybody was happy with his death. He was old and sick."

We were talking about half an hour before he mentioned the death of his SO's father - the usual small talk: How are you, any news, how are things going? Every normal and healthy person had started the conversation with something like "I don't feel well, the father of my SO died last monday." He talked half an hour about how his ailments impair his sporting activities and then used the death of his "father in law" to manipulate me into his old driving-license-trap.

This is so sickening. He always has that unconcerned smile on his face. I never saw him sad, depressed or mournful in my whole life. He is and was always Jack in the box. He always keeps his cool. Absolutely no empathy. In the past I was impressed, I thought he is a connoisseur of the art of living, he takes everything easy. Today I was scared. This is no art of living, this is emptiness. He has absolutely no emotions, he is hollow. He is disordered. I knew it before, but today I saw it, I felt it - it was not just the idea of him being disordered, it was him presenting his psychopathy on a silver tablet. Spooky.   

[Kwamina]

Hi again Maternus,

It is difficult to say for sure why your father behaves like this but it's definitely quite odd. How would you classify the relationship your father had with the father of his SO? Would you say they were close? How did he speak about his SO's father when he was still alive?

Your father indeed does seem to lack empathy. There might also be other explanations to his behavior. It could (also) be that he has difficulty processing and expressing his emotions and/or just doesn't understand what 'normal' behavior is. My undiagnosed mother recently made a similar comment that really bothered me. I went to her house, brought food with me that we both like and we had just started dinner. Than she casually asked me about a certain organisation and if I knew what they did. She then said that the husband of one of my aunts was going there and that he was very sick and the doctors have given him up. She wasn't emotional or distressed at all but just said it like she was talking about something like the weather or groceries. I remained calm and didn't respond but by the look I gave her, it was clear to her that I wasn't pleased at all with the bizarre way of her telling me this and her poor timing. She stopped and didn't talk about it anymore but I found the whole experience disturbing. A few days later she did something similar talking about another issue and I said I wasn't going to discuss this now and ended the telephone conversation with her.

My mother lacks empathy, that's a fact and she also tries to parentify me and make me responsible for her. There have also been times that she intentionally tried to hurt me. This type of behavior can be very frustrating. What helps me stay calm and not have her get to me too much, is drastically lowering my expectations of her and keep telling myself not to take anything she says or does personally. Nowadays I fully expect her to misbehave and prepare myself accordingly based on my past experiences with her. I realize too that no matter what she says or does, her behavior is most likely not a reflection of who I really am at all. Odds are that her behavior has in fact very little to do with me at all and is just a reflection of her own inner turmoil, negativity and insecurities. Perhaps these tips can be of some help to you too as you try to deal with your father.

[Maternus]

Hi again Maternus,

It is difficult to say for sure why your father behaves like this but it's definitely quite odd. How would you classify the relationship your father had with the father of his SO? Would you say they were close? How did he speak about his SO's father when he was still alive?

His SO's father lived in another town but they spent every second weekend there. I don't know anything about the relationship between my father and the father of his SO, but I know that his SO had a very close relationship to her father. But I don't know her enough, to be really sure.

She's a nice person and she never was dismissive when I talked to her. But every time after I met her and had the feeling that we can establish a civil relationship, my father told me, that she doesn't like me - he always says, that she doesn't like to be with other people but him at all. I don't believe him anymore.

He isolates her from the rest of the family, tells everyone that she likes to be alone, is not social. But errytime I met her - when he had not the control over the circumstances of the family meeting - she was very social, liked to play games, liked to talk to everyone. Everybody was surprised, because she was so gregarious.

But when someone asked my father some days later if she felt fine on that evening, he answered "No, she will never do this again. Please don't ask her to come again. She may agree, but that's just a fake."