So completely confused as to what I should be doing or feeling...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is what the universe told me:

We feel like we have to do something, because we know that our partners are struggling with an illness that interferes with their ability to regulate their emotions in a way that would support a steady, peaceful ongoing romantic relationship. So, we don't want to judge them, or blame them, or hold them responsible for their behaviors -- because it's not their fault, due to the illness. It's BPD's fault, not the person's. Which is all great -- it speaks well of us for being compassionate, loving partners. But it keeps us stuck, and thinking that, if we can only learn how to get around the illness, to the real person who we love, then we can fix everything. If we can take them by the hand, and help navigate them through the fog, or at least recognize that it's just fog around us, and nothing real, then we can deal with this.

The problem is that it doesn't change a damned thing. The illness doesn't go away, and it won't go away, or even really improve, probably, without a full-on commitment to long-term therapy and hard, psychic WORK on our partners' parts. And very few of them seem willing to do this. There will be FOG every day -- just some days it will be worse than others.

I think we have a form of survivor guilt. And we need to get over it. This isn't our fault. We didn't cause it, we can't fix it, and we aren't obligated to stick around for roller coaster ride. I don't know about you, but I like sunshine.

eyvindr,

I appreciate your posts so much... .thank you

[jkwest]

This is what the universe told me:

We feel like we have to do something, because we know that our partners are struggling with an illness that interferes with their ability to regulate their emotions in a way that would support a steady, peaceful ongoing romantic relationship. So, we don't want to judge them, or blame them, or hold them responsible for their behaviors -- because it's not their fault, due to the illness. It's BPD's fault, not the person's. Which is all great -- it speaks well of us for being compassionate, loving partners. But it keeps us stuck, and thinking that, if we can only learn how to get around the illness, to the real person who we love, then we can fix everything. If we can take them by the hand, and help navigate them through the fog, or at least recognize that it's just fog around us, and nothing real, then we can deal with this.

The problem is that it doesn't change a damned thing. The illness doesn't go away, and it won't go away, or even really improve, probably, without a full-on commitment to long-term therapy and hard, psychic WORK on our partners' parts. And very few of them seem willing to do this. There will be FOG every day -- just some days it will be worse than others.

I think we have a form of survivor guilt. And we need to get over it. This isn't our fault. We didn't cause it, we can't fix it, and we aren't obligated to stick around for roller coaster ride. I don't know about you, but I like sunshine.

eyvindr,

I appreciate your posts so much... .thank you

[eyvindr]

Welcome, jkwest.

Yes -- it's all mind-blowing. Mind-blowing that anyone goes through this. Mind-blowing that others are going through the same thing. Mind-blowing that there are SO many of us.

Glad you found us. Hope it helps. Hang in there.

[Silveron]

To the OP:

  Even if you get her back, how long will it be before she pulls this again?  She sees your weakness and is acting upon it.  You will be a safety net and will be used when she needs something from you.  You cannot trust in her, you have no security with her and with someone with OCD you are mixing fire with gasoline.  You have to realize that there are MANY other women out there, many that have great personalities and good mental health.  Many that are compassionate, loving and will be happy to join you in life. 

  She is feeding off your insecurities and honestly there is no hope with this woman who is just manipulating you.  BPDs do not care if they are hurting someone.

  What you have to do is stop letting this effect your own-self worth.  When you put this on her shoulders you are not only going to disappoint yourself but you are putting more stress on her shoulders.  BPDs cannot deal with stress (let alone many other things... )

  So how do you do this?  You set short term goals FOR YOURSELF.  You accomplish them.  Every time you start thinking about her, you force yourself to think and do something else.  You also have to STOP romanticizing the past.  It's easy to look back on all the 'good times' while forgetting all the hurt a BPD can put you through.  You get respect by respecting yourself and you are not doing that.

  I know how you feel, been there myself and the things I told you is what worked for me.  Don't let it go to the point I did when my ex-fiancée cheated and left.  I became suicidal.  It was truly the worst year of my life.  Place the hope you have left into yourself, not her.

[TheRiddler]

How did she see my weakness, I don't understand? 

And eyvindr: Thank you again, that was extraordinarily thoughtful and poignant.  A couple weeks ago her mother spoke to her about what had happened and apparently she "checked out."  That's something regular "nons" use so her using that makes me feel as though she's just a regular girl and I ruined all chance of anything.  Maybe she just said that to have something to say, or maybe that's how it actually felt in her mind.  I don't know, but it doesn't sound like something a pwBPD would say but I guess I'm not the person to judge that.  This is a precarious position to be in, though I appreciate everyone's help, because I keep thinking every little detail I remember and provide to the board will finally force us to arrive at the conclusion that she's totally fine and I'm just a horrible, negligent boyfriend.

I feel I didn't see her enough and I took her for granted... these thoughts are just ruining me.  Whether she's pwBPD or not, I could have tried harder but I honestly thought after the discussions we'd had she was okay with things, I didn't know she was planning a silent exit.

I don't mean to frustrate anyone; I'm very obsessive and I fixate on the smallest of things if they don't make complete sense to me.

[Grey Kitty]

  I've kinda skimmed over your story... .and I really see that you are hurting. 

I think your topic title is really interesting, so I'm going to respond to the two questions in there... .

"So completely confused as to what I should be doing or feeling"

Q1: What should you be feeling?

A1: Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just ARE. The best answer is that you should be feeling exactly what you are feeling right now. It sometimes helps to realize that the feeling will pass, and another feeling will come up. This always happens. The feeling may return again, perhaps somewhat different, perhaps exactly the same.

Q2: What should you be doing?

That is a much harder question, and I'm going to turn it onto its ear for you.

What you WANT to do and what you CHOOSE to do will be more helpful for you than what you 'should' do.

Your feelings tell you a lot here--they tell you what is important to you. Likely they are telling you about things that are importantly WRONG, as you have a lot of uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings.

Moving from this to what you want to accomplish, and thinking about what you can do to accomplish this both works better and feels better.

It is soo easy to get stuck in reacting to your feelings and just doing things. It is much harder to pause and decide what actions or even inactions will help me accomplish my goals. (Ask me how I know! )

[BestVersionOfMe]

 I've kinda skimmed over your story... .and I really see that you are hurting. 

I think your topic title is really interesting, so I'm going to respond to the two questions in there... .

"So completely confused as to what I should be doing or feeling"

Q1: What should you be feeling?

A1: Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just ARE. The best answer is that you should be feeling exactly what you are feeling right now. It sometimes helps to realize that the feeling will pass, and another feeling will come up. This always happens. The feeling may return again, perhaps somewhat different, perhaps exactly the same.

Q2: What should you be doing?

That is a much harder question, and I'm going to turn it onto its ear for you.

What you WANT to do and what you CHOOSE to do will be more helpful for you than what you 'should' do.

Your feelings tell you a lot here--they tell you what is important to you. Likely they are telling you about things that are importantly WRONG, as you have a lot of uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings.

Moving from this to what you want to accomplish, and thinking about what you can do to accomplish this both works better and feels better.

It is soo easy to get stuck in reacting to your feelings and just doing things. It is much harder to pause and decide what actions or even inactions will help me accomplish my goals. (Ask me how I know! )

Totally agree here.  It is likely uncomfortable thinking about what you WANT to do.  It know it is/was for me.  You spend some much time catering to the feelings and wants of the BP that you kind of lose yourself.  In my case I even got to the point where I thought I was a saint because I literally had so few wants or needs.  The truth is I was co-dependent and I'm enjoying the process of rediscovering myself.  Go find yourself again and don't feel bad about it. 

[eyvindr]

Riddler --

Good points from the Greycat and BestVersion.

Q1: What should you be feeling?

A1: Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just ARE. The best answer is that you should be feeling exactly what you are feeling right now. It sometimes helps to realize that the feeling will pass, and another feeling will come up. This always happens. The feeling may return again, perhaps somewhat different, perhaps exactly the same.

Along similar lines, it helps to remember that, while feelings are real, as GK notes -- they aren't facts. As we know, a big part of the BPD experience is their inability to grasp this: to someone suffering from BPD, feelings are facts. Often times, what they feel is their entire reality. Even kind of makes sense in a twisted way that, because of that, they behave the ways they do -- it helps explain why they seem to have no clue as to how their words and actions affect others in their lives. Because, in their world, they are behaving exactly the same way we think we're behaving, which is to make choices based on what they feel is reality and -- again -- in their case, reality is whatever they feel. They respond to their feelings as if their interpretation of their origin is accurate. It's a very complex illness.

Learning this has helped me to understand why I so often -- and so easily -- slipped into the same dilemmas that you describe. I've said it before -- we want to believe that the person we love is telling us the truth. In someone with BPD, their feelings are the truth -- so, while it's often a wildly inaccurate "truth," it is what they share with us, and what we find ourselves responding to. Make any sense? Does this help, or confuse you more?

[TheRiddler]

This is a precarious position to be in, though I appreciate everyone's help, because I keep thinking every little detail I remember and provide to the board will finally force us to arrive at the conclusion that she's totally fine and I'm just a horrible, negligent boyfriend.

eyvindr, as well as everyone else contributing,

Your compassion and wisdom are truly appreciated, I can't thank you enough.  But the above I self-quoted is what's bothering me the most.  I know no one hear can diagnose, but it'd be nice to know this all sounds familiar and there's a likelihood we can agree on. 

[HappyNihilist]

This is a precarious position to be in, though I appreciate everyone's help, because I keep thinking every little detail I remember and provide to the board will finally force us to arrive at the conclusion that she's totally fine and I'm just a horrible, negligent boyfriend.

eyvindr, as well as everyone else contributing,

Your compassion and wisdom are truly appreciated, I can't thank you enough.  But the above I self-quoted is what's bothering me the most.  I know no one hear can diagnose, but it'd be nice to know this all sounds familiar and there's a likelihood we can agree on.  

Riddler, I know you're hurting.   I think a lot of your suffering right now is coming from some distorted thinking.

It sounds like you believe that, if your exgf doesn't have BPD (or something similar), then the only other possible reason the relationship didn't work is because you were a horrible, negligent boyfriend.

But this is just not realistic thinking. You're creating stress for yourself by putting the entire burden of the relationship on your shoulders.

There are many reasons why relationships don't work out. Look at some of the possibilities--

1. She could have a full-blown personality disorder that makes an intimate r/s very, very difficult.

2. She could have BPD traits that also make an intimate r/s very difficult.

3. She could have no personality disorder but other issues that make an intimate r/s difficult.

4. She could have no personality disorder but other issues, and while her ability to have an intimate r/s may or may not be impacted, she might not feel like she is compatible with you, even though you were a good boyfriend.

5. She could have no personality disorder, be completely well-adjusted and healthy, but not feel like she is compatible with you, even though you were a good boyfriend.

Now, it doesn't sound like she was completely well-adjusted and healthy... .but other than that, no one here can really say (as you know). But even if she were, the relationship ending would not mean that you were a bad boyfriend.

It seems like you have a tendency to be hard on yourself - which is not uncommon for members around here  - and I just want to encourage you to be gentler with yourself.  

[TheRiddler]

That makes sense, thank you.

Let's assume I've gotten to a place where I can actually make an intelligent decision as to whether or not I want to be with her... can she and I still have a chance?  One thing my mind does not process well and triggers crazy obsessiveness is lack of certainty.  I know in these kinds of situations nothing is for certain, but I do think there are likelihoods.

[TheRiddler]

And a follow up question: did her finding out about my speaking to her mother screw up NC and my chances of anything?   

All of this is so scary.  :'(

[Grey Kitty]

And a follow up question: did her finding out about my speaking to her mother screw up NC and my chances of anything?   

All of this is so scary.  :'(

 It is scary.

You love her and care about her and want to get back together with her.

You were working on that with her mother.

If that 'screws up' your chances with her... .sadly, they were not much chances of something you would find healthy and fulfilling with her.

The relationship you truly want with her will probably require both you and her to change and grow. Do your part. Give her room to do hers. And accept that she may not.

 GK

[TheRiddler]

But how do I know?  It'd be helpful to know that she actually has feelings for me right now.  I'd actually been planning on getting her mom to ask her (before she knew we were talking) whether or not she'd still consider me for a partner or if all chances of that are shot.  I don't know if that's a good idea, but I feel I need to get some kind of information.  I was thinking about asking if she thought the relationship could be salvaged in the future but when I was speaking to her mom all she would say to her (and this was before she knew we were speaking), was that she just wants to be alone right now, and that we may get together but it's not for sure.  A family member, who'd been getting a little tired of hearing about this (understandably), suggested I ask her mom to ask her flat out if she'd consider me in the future, and I just couldn't take the finality of the potential answer. 

I don't know anymore... I don't know if it's BPD, the relationship wasn't good enough and she didn't care to tell me, or what.  The point I brought up about which explanation to believe in an earlier post was not simply to have something to tell myself to feel better... it's about having as close to the truth as I can in order to feel better.  The way my mind works, I see plenty of evidence of BPD, but I also have my own doubts, and that prevents me from having a satisfying explanation of what happened in my head. 

I don't know, guys... I feel I need to know more information, but I don't want to get more hurt than I already am.  Is there a way anyone can see to phrase a question to where I can get a sense of her leanings for the future while staying vague enough that I don't get tremendously hurt by the answer?

This is what I keep coming to.  No matter how I try to move on or do anything, my tremendous obsession trumps everything and I just can't get around it.  I'm taking updated meds and I'm seeing a therapist, and even she acknowledges the fact that I seem to need something.  That's what I've read about these BPD relationships... there's no closure.  But then again, is this one of those relationships?  I have no way of knowing.

I write this and I'm scared just as much as I'm relieved to have it on the boards.  As much as you might think I need "tough love" I can assure you, I don't.

[Grey Kitty]

But how do I know?

... .

I don't know anymore...

... .

I don't know, guys...

... .

I feel I need to know more information, but I don't want to get more hurt than I already am.  Is there a way anyone can see to phrase a question to where I can get a sense of her leanings for the future while staying vague enough that I don't get tremendously hurt by the answer?

I'll tell you what I'm finding for myself, and what I've seen on these boards:

First and foremost, if her actions say one thing and her words say another, believe her actions.

If I remember right, all her actions are to go away from you. (I could have missed something though) So when her words pull you back, don't give them as much weight.

Second... .when it comes to a pwBPD ending a relationship with a non... .I've seen it a lot of times on these boards, and usually what the non doesn't get is clear closure on it. Generally the pwBPD wasn't capable of being clearly there in the relationship the way you wanted... .and they also aren't capable of being clearly out of the relationship the way you would want it when they end it either.

And... .if you are getting that kind of mixed message... .you have to resolve how you will handle them. Resolving whether she has BPD or not won't remove the mixed message for you.

If you want closure, you will probably have to make it for yourself.

[TheRiddler]

Is there any way to predict the likelihood of a recycle, if I'd even be up for one?

[eyvindr]

Riddler,

I wish there was something someone could say that might help you find a little distance between your feelings and what's really happening.

I think Happy's reply to you here is incredibly valuable and helpful --

There are many reasons why relationships don't work out. Look at some of the possibilities--

1. She could have a full-blown personality disorder that makes an intimate r/s very, very difficult.

2. She could have BPD traits that also make an intimate r/s very difficult.

3. She could have no personality disorder but other issues that make an intimate r/s difficult.

4. She could have no personality disorder but other issues, and while her ability to have an intimate r/s may or may not be impacted, she might not feel like she is compatible with you, even though you were a good boyfriend.

5. She could have no personality disorder, be completely well-adjusted and healthy, but not feel like she is compatible with you, even though you were a good boyfriend.

As hard as it is to hear it -- the truth is that no one can really know. There are no definite answers. "All's fair in love and war," as the saying goes. The only person who can provide any actual feedback here is your ex, and she hasn't provided much. What little she has provided would seem to indicate that, at the very least, she wants/needs some space right now.

Can you find a way to accept that and just give her space?

And, as Happy suggests -- take some space for yourself, too. Stop being so hard on yourself. You didn't make this happen. You didn't fail.

[eyvindr]

R. --

Just came across some great posts here on detaching, buddy. Take a look. I'm hoping they can help settle your mind.

Just Let Go

10 Reasons Why... .

[cosmonaut]

Hi TheRiddler,

First of all, I am so sorry for the pain and distress that this breakup is causing you.  I can very much sympathize and I feel for you.  I am in similar shoes to yours and I understand how agonizingly painful this is.  Please know that you are not alone, and please remember that this is not your fault.  Truly.

As you are coming to realize, a partner with BPD is something entirely different than you have ever experienced before.  It requires a far different kind of understanding and relating than other relationships.  Unfortunately, you are currently a trigger for your ex, as I am a trigger for my ex.  This means that the very thought of us is excruciatingly painful and confusing for our exes and they are doing everything they know how to do to suppress and run from that overwhelming emotion.  This is NOT your fault.  This is the disorder.  There is absolutely nothing you can do to change this, however.  I know that is a horrifying thought to you right now, and I am truly sorry, but it is the truth.  Your pursuing her and attempting to contact her family and to press the issue with her is only driving her further away.  I think you are starting to see this.  You have to stop making things worse before they can get better, my friend.  You have to give her space right now.  You must.  Please, spend some time sitting with that thought and working through the panic that I'm sure it induces.  I was EXACTLY where you are once, so I am telling you exactly what I once had to tell myself too.  You have to give her space.  It is the only possible way that either of you can heal right now, and it is the only way to keep the door open to someday possibly rekindling your relationship.

If you truly love this woman, and I believe you do, this is your chance to prove your love.  Love sometimes requires sacrifice and right now sacrifice is needed.  I realize this is a torturous test, but you must realize that your ex can't heal with you in the picture.  Because she loves you, and despite what some say I truly believe they sincerely love us, you are intimately attached to an intensity of emotion the likes of which you and I may not be able to understand.  She must allow this emotion to subside and that requires distance from you.  Ultimately, she will have to undertake the difficult task of becoming an autonomous self.  This is a daunting and frightening journey for her, but it is one she must make on her own, with the guidance of a trained professional.  This is not something that you can be a part of.  It is the very same with me and my ex.  Much as I would do anything to fix things for my ex, I can't.  The disorder doesn't work that way.  She must do this on her own, and if you love her you will give her this gift.  Let her go with love.  Let her go without blaming her, or shaming her, or being bitter with her.  This is true love, and true love sometimes requires sacrifice.

Right now, the best thing that you can do is to find a therapist yourself and begin to work on yourself.  This is cliche, but it is also true.  If you want to be with this woman, and none of us can say if that will happen - but it might, then you are going to have to be her rock.  She is not going to be able to be an equal partner in this relationship.  Not without years and years of therapy, and maybe not even then.  So, you will have to be the pillar of this relationship.  You are going to have to conquer your own fears and insecurities.  You are going to have to learn to read her emotions, respond to and validate them.  You are going to have to be the calm, soothing, reassuring constant in her life.  You must be her rock.  This is not an easy task, and it will require tremendous personal growth on your part.  This is a journey I have begun to undertake myself.  Even if you are never able to be with your ex, you will be a better man for the changes you have made.  It is worth doing for that alone.

Hang in there, my friend.  We're here for you.

[TheRiddler]

Thank you, that's nice to hear. 

I'm trying to just get this situated in my mind as her being borderline, but some things don't seem to fit.  I've read quite a few accounts on these boards and I don't recall one where the pwBPD says the couple should take a break.  When she first told me of "the break," she also told me she'd been thinking about it for a while.  Aren't people suffering from BPD more impulsive than that?  It's confusing.

But then, there were quite a few times where we'd be having a conversation at her place and she'd start the most ridiculous of arguments.  They'd get way more heated than the subject matter had any right to be, and I'd say I'm tired of putting up with this, I'm just going to go and we can talk about it later.  Then she'd say, if you leave we're going to have to take a break / I'm breaking up with you (depending on the day).  And she'd tell me you know about my abandonment issues. 

In fact, the last night I saw her (which was the night before she said we were taking a break), I was really feeling horrible and ill, a bug had been going around my office, and I didn't want to spend the night and potentially get her sick.  We had a bit of a fight about something I can't remember, and I told her I wasn't feeling well, I didn't want to get into it.  So she tells me it was okay, she knows how I like sleeping on my own sheets (which wasn't the point).  But she had kind of a look on her face that I hadn't put together as "off" until I was driving home.  And later she'd accuse me of not noticing that she was upset, which I suppose I didn't right away... but to my credit I wasn't doing very well on account of the cold or whatever it was.

[TheRiddler]

I'm sorry to be a broken record, I appreciate all of the insightful, kind words. 

I just can't stop thinking I should have been more proactive about moving the relationship forward... she talked about it, but I just didn't understand.

I read articles and message board posts and it just feels like, though no one can really say, I don't have much of a chance of anything in the future with her, that she just fell out of love with me and I'm forever a person she'd not want to be with.  I'm really tired of thinking this stuff, but it's fully inhabiting my mind, and therapy and meds are of some help but the thoughts remain.  They're such scary, hopeless thoughts. 

I've thought about reaching out to see if she's completely written me off, but I don't know if she'd even know.

[TheRiddler]

And apologies in advance for all of the posts, but I had a question I've been meaning to ask:

I've heard many times on this forum (and have been told, specifically) that having no contact with an ex pwBPD is the most probable way they'll re-engage, but point 8 of the "bpdfamily.com" article (https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality) says "absence generally makes the heart grow colder."  These seem to be two conflicting ideas to me.

When everything has five explanations, it's tough to get any kind of an answer.

[cosmonaut]

I'm trying to just get this situated in my mind as her being borderline, but some things don't seem to fit.  I've read quite a few accounts on these boards and I don't recall one where the pwBPD says the couple should take a break.  When she first told me of "the break," she also told me she'd been thinking about it for a while.  Aren't people suffering from BPD more impulsive than that?  It's confusing.

It is quite common that a partner with BPD will stop the relationship.  This is one of the tragic contradictions of the disorder.  While pwBPD are terrified of abandonment and desperately seek to prevent it, they also often experience what is known as engulfment.  Engulfment is also a terrifying experience, and it is a feeling that they are losing themselves in someone else - that they are being swallowed up and will cease to exist.  This is one of the consequences of a pwBPD not having a fully formed self, which many experts believe to be at the very core of the disorder.  So, often a pwBPD feels these back and forth swings in relationships between fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment.  This is what gives rise to the heartbreaking push/pull dynamic of the disorder.  Eventually these fears and emotions can become so overwhelming that the BPD partner leaves the relationship, because they simply have to run from the emotion the only way left.

I can't prove it, but I sincerely believe that many pwBPD enter into relationships with absolute sincerity.  They really do love, admire, and desire their partners.  They want things to work.  They want to live happily ever after.  They hope beyond hope that they have found the perfect love they seek who will finally love them forever and complete them.  But as the relationship builds and the couple become ever more emotionally intimate, all of the core fears of the disorder become activated.  The BPD partner becomes hypervigilent to abandonment, certain that they are unworthy and incapable of being loved and that once their partner realizes this they will leave.  Every word and every action of their partner is increasingly scrutinized through this lens of mistrust.  Meanwhile, there is this growing feeling that they are losing themselves.  That they are ceasing to exist in someone else, and there are desperate attempts to assert independence and self-sufficiency.  Eventually, it often reaches a point where the pwBPD can no longer stand the overwhelming emotions their partner is triggering, and they leave.  So, while pwBPD do tend to be impulsive, and the act of leaving itself may be impulsive, it is most likely that there has been a long build up behind the scenes with the pwBPD struggling with raging emotions they can neither control nor cope with.  It is critical to realize, however, that while you are a trigger for your ex, you are NOT the cause.  You didn't cause her to feel these things, and honestly she didn't either.  This is her disorder at work.  This is what the disorder does, because it is evil and awful.  But, can you understand now, why she can't stand to have anything to do with you?  It's not because she doesn't care.  It's the exact opposite.  It's because she cares more than she can handle.

My own ex had times when, after my pushing her to try and resolve her chronic silent treatments, she would try and have us take a "break".  I think it was her way of trying to maintain the relationship while having the space to reduce the overwhelming feelings.  She told me a number of times that the last thing she wanted was for us to break up.  I believe her.  I suspect that your ex feels the same.  She just doesn't know what else to do.  Unfortunately, this is not something that you can fix.  Neither can I.  We are triggers and we must understand that.

I just can't stop thinking I should have been more proactive about moving the relationship forward... she talked about it, but I just didn't understand.

I read articles and message board posts and it just feels like, though no one can really say, I don't have much of a chance of anything in the future with her, that she just fell out of love with me and I'm forever a person she'd not want to be with.  I'm really tired of thinking this stuff, but it's fully inhabiting my mind, and therapy and meds are of some help but the thoughts remain.  They're such scary, hopeless thoughts. 

I've thought about reaching out to see if she's completely written me off, but I don't know if she'd even know.

Everyone has regrets about relationships, even lasting relationships.  We all make mistakes and wish that we had done things differently.  This is to be human.  Please, do understand, however, that there is nothing you could have done to prevent this break up.   I am very sorry to have to say that, because I know firsthand how much that thought hurts.  The tragedy is that you could never be perfect enough - even if you were perfection itself.   The fears inherent in BPD are triggered by intimacy.  It is a terrible tragedy, but the better and more loving of a partner you are, the more the disorder tends to be triggered.  Ultimately, your ex is never going to be able to have a stable relationships with anyone unless she is able to begin the very difficult task of healing her disorder - and that means developing an autonomous self.  I feel very sorry for both of you, because this is truly neither of your faults.  This is the miserable disorder.

No one, except God, can say if you will be able to continue a relationship with this woman.  She may not even be able to say herself, because her emotions are so shifting.   There is an overwhelming chance that she does miss you terribly and this is breaking her heart to leave you, but she is doing everything possible to ignore and suppress that, because it is more pain than she can bare.  She not only has emotions of extreme intensity, she also has extremely limited ability to cope with them.  She has only a limited number of very primitive coping mechanisms and none of them are healthy.  One of her tasks in therapy will be to learn to deal with stress and emotions in a more healthy manner.  I know you want to be with her, and I know how much you want to know if you will be able to.  I don't want to lie to you, however.   There is certainly a chance that you will be able to get back together, but there is no guarantee.  It is impossible to put some sort of percentage on that.   Everyone and every relationship is unique and having a BPD partner doesn't change that.   There is just no way to know.   That is why I and other members have advised you as we have.  Spend the time now to work on yourself, and if she comes back then you will be in a far better position to provide the kind of relationship with the most lasting chance of stability.  We must remember, however, that ultimately only she can truly conquer this disorder and she has to do that alone.

I've heard many times on this forum (and have been told, specifically) that having no contact with an ex pwBPD is the most probable way they'll re-engage, but point 8 of the "bpdfamily.com" article (https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality) says "absence generally makes the heart grow colder."  These seem to be two conflicting ideas to me.

Yes, this is true.  Absence does tend to make the heart grow colder.  I think that is true for most everyone, but it seems to be more true for pwBPD.  pwBPD have problems with object constancy.  This is object relations thery, and I don't understand it on any sort of deep level, so I will have to forgo trying to explain it.  However, pwBPD have trouble in realizing that there is constancy in things like love.  They tend to believe that since their emotions are constantly in flux, that reality is constantly in flux.  As you are noticing, BPD is full of contradictions.  It is a disorder that seems to be a paradox inside of a paradox.  Your ex is not well.  She has a serious mental illness.  This is not her fault in any way.  But it does mean that she is not experiencing and reacting to the world in a rational, healthy way.  It may be very hard to understand this, because it is deeply disordered thinking.  There is a certain internal logic to the disorder, however, and learning about this could be helpful for you to gain a better insight and context into your ex's thinking and behavior.   For me, it has been very helpful in depersonalizing the experience.  We are not the bad guys and we are not the cause of the breakup or of our ex's suffering.  Please keep that in mind.

I hope that helps.  I feel for you.  I remember very much what it felt like in the wake of my ex leaving me, and how shattered I felt.  How desperate I was to win her back and how much I wanted to fix things.   I had to realize all of the things that I am now telling you, however, and they have indeed been bitter pills to swallow.  I am only trying to tell you the truth, so that you can begin to take the best steps for you, and to have what I believe are the best chances of a future relationship with your ex.  I can tell you from personal experience, that the pain will dull with time.   Hang in there.

[TheRiddler]

Hey cosmonaut,

Thank you for such a detailed reply, that makes a lot of sense.  I'd heard of engulfment but didn't understand what it was completely.  In fact, in a phone call during that period she mentioned the fact that she didn't know who she was. 

Do you or anyone else know if there are some kind of factors that'll determine the likelihood that she'll want to reconnect, or is it just impossible to say?

And by "the break," I meant the 2 month separation that preceded the actual break up.  That's what struck me as a little unusual and methodical for a disorder that's marked by such impulsiveness.

[JRT]

Riddler... .as Cosmonaut had mentioned, only God knows if you both will ever connect. I will however, go out on a limb ans say that a majority of these r/s reconnect (recycle), but keep in mind that those recycles are predicated upon unhealthy needs on their part. I recycled 6 times and the 'off' period lasted anywhere from a month to several hours (diminishing in each recycle - I thought we were out of the woods).  This past b/u was 5 months ago and it is likely that she and I will never speak again.

[cosmonaut]

Here is a post that gives some numbers since you seem to want to have a better idea of the odds of getting back together.  I can't vouch for the scientific accuracy of it since it is just a member poll, but you may find it interesting.  The odds to seem to suggest that a recycle is more likely than not.

Recycling and the Holidays - what is your advice to others?

You may also find this post interesting on the conditions when a recycle is most common.

When is it more likely for a BPDx to get back in touch?

And by "the break," I meant the 2 month separation that preceded the actual break up.  That's what struck me as a little unusual and methodical for a disorder that's marked by such impulsiveness.

Yes, this is what I meant too.  She would sometimes suggest a period of us having some time away from each other, but not really a full break up.  I was able to convince her not to go through with that in principle, but in reality she continued to withdraw anyway.  She didn't know how else to cope.

[Mutt]

This is a worthwhile topic and the thread is locked. You are welcome with opening a new thread with a similar topic.