Co parenting post split

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My D isn't scared of me... However, she was a daddy's girl... .and since the separation isn't anymore... .She is more distant. My wife had taunted me saying she isn't a daddy's girl anymore.  The change in my relationship with her mightier a product of the separation,  but could be alienation.  If I'm in my room when it's my wife turn to care fir the kids, my son usually comes to see me, but my daughter rarely does.

I don't know if I shared this with you already? It's about the typical emotional reactions of kids to divorce. Some of the behaviors we see in our kids is classic divorce stuff, but when there is a BPD parent, it will be compounded. I wish I had helped my son express his feelings better -- he would say similar things to what your son is saying. It's not just a one-off comment, it's a symptom of much deeper more powerful feelings that are there all the time. My son struggles to express anger, so it turned inward into depression. I thought he was managing ok, but those are the kids you really have to worry about.

My D (5) is struggling at school,  crying a lot, and hitting out.   She complains of missing her mum at school,  but not me.  I feel sad about this as it might be about her attachment to me and her mum.  Any ideas on this one?

Your D also sounds like she is taking sides with the parent who is the most formidable -- it could be that she knows her mom could abandon her, which is terrifying, so she sides with her, the more unstable parent. I can't remember if you said the kids were seeing therapists? She's probably most vulnerable because of her age. Also, what I learned is that kids absolutely do feel responsible for the marriage falling apart. They can't identify a fact to prove it, but that's the feeling. The thing that doesn't work is to to just tell them what is/isn't right. You have to validate how they feel. They need to process the feelings otherwise those negative feelings start to gain power in the wrong ways. They have to experience them and recover, so they realize that they're resilient. It might be too difficult for them to do this with you -- you're part of the dynamic. That's why a skilled therapist is a good idea if you can get them in to see someone.

I said to my kids tthat I'd do anything for them... .my son (7) asked me if I'd help him kill himself.   This makes me feel incredibly sad.  My wife's response initially was good... ."that's sad, it must have been hard for you and him".  But was followed by, "perhaps you should be nicer to me, and stop asking the kids to take sides" (a more expected response).

It sounds like she is projecting. I learned that N/BPDx divided S13's loyalties in the most insidious and sly ways. And it destroyed that kid.  :'(  It poisons their relationship with you. I'm grateful I had a good T to help me see how my own responses were contributing to things. Even so, we are still digging our way out, but there's hope. I see how S13 is in many ways light years ahead of his peers in terms of mature insights and emotional health. But he's also an adolescent, which comes with its own challenges. I have a vision of what his life will be like at 18 and I just keep focusing on that, because no way do I want to go through this and have the same dysfunctional family script move forward. This narrative of mental illness is going to stop at S13's generation. I'm determined.

[livednlearned]

My D isn't scared of me... However, she was a daddy's girl... .and since the separation isn't anymore... .She is more distant. My wife had taunted me saying she isn't a daddy's girl anymore.  The change in my relationship with her mightier a product of the separation,  but could be alienation.  If I'm in my room when it's my wife turn to care fir the kids, my son usually comes to see me, but my daughter rarely does.

I don't know if I shared this with you already? It's about the typical emotional reactions of kids to divorce. Some of the behaviors we see in our kids is classic divorce stuff, but when there is a BPD parent, it will be compounded. I wish I had helped my son express his feelings better -- he would say similar things to what your son is saying. It's not just a one-off comment, it's a symptom of much deeper more powerful feelings that are there all the time. My son struggles to express anger, so it turned inward into depression. I thought he was managing ok, but those are the kids you really have to worry about.

My D (5) is struggling at school,  crying a lot, and hitting out.   She complains of missing her mum at school,  but not me.  I feel sad about this as it might be about her attachment to me and her mum.  Any ideas on this one?

Your D also sounds like she is taking sides with the parent who is the most formidable -- it could be that she knows her mom could abandon her, which is terrifying, so she sides with her, the more unstable parent. I can't remember if you said the kids were seeing therapists? She's probably most vulnerable because of her age. Also, what I learned is that kids absolutely do feel responsible for the marriage falling apart. They can't identify a fact to prove it, but that's the feeling. The thing that doesn't work is to to just tell them what is/isn't right. You have to validate how they feel. They need to process the feelings otherwise those negative feelings start to gain power in the wrong ways. They have to experience them and recover, so they realize that they're resilient. It might be too difficult for them to do this with you -- you're part of the dynamic. That's why a skilled therapist is a good idea if you can get them in to see someone.

I said to my kids tthat I'd do anything for them... .my son (7) asked me if I'd help him kill himself.   This makes me feel incredibly sad.  My wife's response initially was good... ."that's sad, it must have been hard for you and him".  But was followed by, "perhaps you should be nicer to me, and stop asking the kids to take sides" (a more expected response).

It sounds like she is projecting. I learned that N/BPDx divided S13's loyalties in the most insidious and sly ways. And it destroyed that kid.  :'(  It poisons their relationship with you. I'm grateful I had a good T to help me see how my own responses were contributing to things. Even so, we are still digging our way out, but there's hope. I see how S13 is in many ways light years ahead of his peers in terms of mature insights and emotional health. But he's also an adolescent, which comes with its own challenges. I have a vision of what his life will be like at 18 and I just keep focusing on that, because no way do I want to go through this and have the same dysfunctional family script move forward. This narrative of mental illness is going to stop at S13's generation. I'm determined.

[SES]

Thanks Livednlearned.

I read through the reaction to divorce.  It was helpful, and an eye opener.

Yes, I think she is projecting re: asking me not to get the kids to take sides.  She is keen for them to support her. I would normally ignore her when she becomes abusive by text, but this time I did engage.  My last text was asking her to reflect on the last time she spoke to me in front of our children, calling me names and threatening that she would go to court over our childcare as I was eratic.  I Expected a poor response, but she responded "Im not discussing this with you.  Please leave me alone."  Which is unusual for her.  I shouldn't care what she thinks/feels, but I do hope that one day she will realise the hurt she has caused our children, and damage she inflicted. Have other users of this site found that their ex has points of realisation of what they have done, the negative impact, or regret?   

I have tried to talk to my son, but he refuses to talk.  He agrees that he is like me, that he thinks a lot of things that are often sad.  He has inherited one of my family traits of thinking a lot.  This can be good for studying, imagination, ideas; but bad, as can lead to ruminating and dwelling on bad things.  I'm trying to work on him by telling him that I think about sad things too.

She hasn't made any more allegations that I was going to kill myself and my kids, which is a good thing.  I am wondering if this was also influenced by the lack of interest anyone showed, ie. police, social services, and the school.  The only people who probably paid attention were her family and friend. 

Yes, D probably sides with her mother.  She began to feel anxious about separation from her mother when my wife used to leave to stay with her partner, and wouldn't come back till the following day, or the day after.  I'm sure that is quite a big thing when you are 4 or 5.

[ForeverDad]

My last text was asking her to reflect on the last time she spoke to me in front of our children, calling me names and threatening that she would go to court over our childcare as I was erratic.  I Expected a poor response, but she responded "I'm not discussing this with you.  Please leave me alone."  Which is unusual for her.

People can easily pick and choose when to seem less abnormal and pose as normal or a victim.  Probably in this instance she blame-shifted (please leave me alone) by characterizing you as 'harassing' her?

I shouldn't care what she thinks/feels, but I do hope that one day she will realise the hurt she has caused our children, and damage she inflicted. Have other users of this site found that their ex has points of realisation of what they have done, the negative impact, or regret?

• "Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst."  If she improves, great, but until then it's all hypothetical and merits zero emotional investment.



• Reality, think, she's had years to improve but didn't.



• "You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink."



• You can't afford to trust claims and promises, you need actions over the long term to prove whether she's improved.

Beware of her demanding you abide by rules she ignores.  She may tell you "don't influence the kids" and yet do it herself.  Re-read the introduction to Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison.  Taking the high road and being silent is not a good strategy.  While you don't want to pressure the kids to take sides, they do need proper validation and a proper level of age-appropriate insight.  Perhaps you can discuss with their counselors and here in peer support ways to (1) validate the children and (2) empower the children with better awareness.

[livednlearned]

I worry about further allegations... .I remain worried of the risk she still poses.  

I think your greatest risk is going to be parental alienation. Your D is at that age where she believes her mom's rejection of the family is caused by D.  :'( It goes like this: "If I was really lovable, mom would not leave and hurt me like this." She might see you as incapable of keeping her mom too. Because she can't deal with the pain of those feelings, she will project anger on you, and start pushing you away. Your ex will egg that type of thinking and behavior on.

My son is a thinker type too, and his depression dipped from moderate to severe a few months ago. There are some pretty powerful feelings going on in the whole family, and if they don't get aired out and processed -- really processed -- they will gain a lot of power.

In the absence of a healthy story to tell themselves about what is happening, kids will create a very dark and sad one, where they are the lead character causing all kinds of things to happen. We know they didn't -- we know it's mental illness.

The good news is that when you get this right, you change the family script that has been running through generations. Your kids will have a  road map they use when they encounter challenges later in life. But they need the roadmap. Left to their own devices, they will get stuck.

[SES]

Thanks Livednlearned and Foreverdad.

I need to spend more time working on supporting my kids.  You are quite right, she is consistent in demanding things of me, but failing to abide by those rules.  

We finally have an offer on our house, a decent one.I accepted it.  She has declined stating she wants the full asking price.  Not great, as the market isn't great, and most people expect to make an offer.  I hope this isn't her sabotaging things.  However,  the financial reality of our divorce is about to settle in.  Me, I'll be in a similar financial position,  just a smaller house. Her, a smaller house... .Plus a mortgage and bills she has never had to face before (in 14 years).  

Fingers crossed she accepts.   Fingers crossed she agrees in writing to 50 50 shared care of kids.  Fingers crossed this awful situation comes to an end soon.  

[ForeverDad]

We finally have an offer on our house, a decent one.I accepted it.  She has declined stating she wants the full asking price.  Not great, as the market isn't great, and most people expect to make an offer.  I hope this isn't her sabotaging things.

With your situation, it is a buyer's market, you have to sell.  And yes, most buyers want to haggle.  That's the reality, they assume you listed it a little high so there would be some negotiating room.

Some members have had to go to court for a court order that if the offered price came in 95% or better then it must be accepted.  Have you told her that if she doesn't accept then you will seek that in court?  I understand you're juggling lots of issues but see if there's a way to get her to agree.  Maybe tell her (or better to have the realtor tell her?) that the price is always listed a little high to give room for negotiations with the buyer so the buyer feels it was a 'deal'?

[livednlearned]

Maybe tell her (or better to have the realtor tell her?) that the price is always listed a little high to give room for negotiations with the buyer so the buyer feels it was a 'deal'?

I agree with this! Try to stay out of sight of these negotiations as much as possible. You may want to give the realtor a heads up that your ex does not have a good head for these things, and give them some insight that they will need to manage her. Otherwise the house will not sell.

If your wife thinks you are involved in managing things, she will stonewall.

My T even recommended that I use reverse psychology with my ex.

[SES]

Thanks for the top tips.  Yes, I have briefed the agent, and asked if they can do anything to avoid the loss of the sale. They are aware that she has complained that she now thinks the property is under priced, and that is a sticking point.

This bit is just a rant... .She is astounding.  I got home yesterday and said hello to our kids.  As usual I avoided her, not even eye contact.  She followed me and tried to hand me some mail, saying to our D that she was just trying to be nice to me.  I know this is manipulation in front of our D, making out she is the good one.  Problem is, she hasn't been kind throughout any of this, her affair, the after effects, staying in the house, and her behaviour (death threats, threats about access to the kids, assaults, venom etc.).  It's awful.  She has a very distorted view of life.  I still can't believe I'm in the house with her whilst she conducts her affair months after I found out.  I still reel from the amount of times she rubbed it in my face, and the awful things she has done over the last year, or more.  My mood has been in my boots.  This has been, without a doubt, the most awful part of my life; worse than my sister's death, and the other bereavements I have experienced.   Such cruelty.  I'm sure its not all deliberate, that she is incapable of dealing with things any other way.  But she was my wife of 14 years, and I am repaid for supporting her, loving her, and having kids by this.  She wants me to put my hurt behind me for the sake of the kids... .shame she didn't think that way when she was doing the hurting.  Utterly awful.  

Anyway, rant over.