After break up with pwBPD, want to know what is love

[apple2]

Hey all,

actually, mine is trying to recycle me again, but I am exhausted.

I am asking myself what is love? I don't understand it anymore. My value and ability to judge were destroyed through this "relationship".

In the past, I thought if a guy keeps texting you, dating with you, inviting you to do everything with him, sharing your story with his parents, picking you up, buying you flowers and presents, having vocation with you, cooking for you, and all of these happened after having sex with you, it at least means the guy is into you, or moreover, having true feeling for you or loving you. After two rounds recycling, I don't understand what love is at all.

I don't think he really loves me.  Just as he once said, he does not really love anyone. However, why he is trying to recycle me again and again? If he wants to find his own value in someone, there are girls around him showing interest. He can also find a new one. If he does not love me, I can accept, but why not let me go?

[WalrusGumboot]

apple2, it is normal to question love and many more things in the final stages of the relation with a pwBPD or the aftermath. I know I did. You need to give yourself some time to heal. It's been 3 years out for me. I couldn't think real straight the first year out. My mind was needing answers I would never get. After a while, knowing those answers take little importance as you move on.

I think you know what love is and it will come back to you. You have gone through a lot. Give yourself some time, ok?

[Restored2]

Hi apple2.  It is totally understandable why you are exhausted.  Being in a relationship with a BPD person is exhausting and confusing to define love in.  It is easy to have ones ability to judge destroyed in such a relationship.  The question to ask yourself is, how has your value been destroyed in it?  Sounds like he doesn't know what he really wants.

[apple2]

apple2, it is normal to question love and many more things in the final stages of the relation with a pwBPD or the aftermath. I know I did. You need to give yourself some time to heal. It's been 3 years out for me. I couldn't think real straight the first year out. My mind was needing answers I would never get. After a while, knowing those answers take little importance as you move on.

I think you know what love is and it will come back to you. You have gone through a lot. Give yourself some time, ok?

Hi Walrus,

thanks for the tips. I know I need time to heal. Only feel terrible when I realized what I regarded as beautiful is only my illusion.  And he is still trying to keep me attached, although he suddenly broke up with me twice. I can't understand the point at all.

After two years, have you already found an answer?

[Jack2727]

Hey all,

actually, mine is trying to recycle me again, but I am exhausted.

I am asking myself what is love? I don't understand it anymore. My value and ability to judge were destroyed through this "relationship".

In the past, I thought if a guy keeps texting you, dating with you, inviting you to do everything with him, sharing your story with his parents, picking you up, buying you flowers and presents, having vocation with you, cooking for you, and all of these happened after having sex with you, it at least means the guy is into you, or moreover, having true feeling for you or loving you. After two rounds recycling, I don't understand what love is at all.

I don't think he really loves me.  Just as he once said, he does not really love anyone. However, why he is trying to recycle me again and again? If he wants to find his own value in someone, there are girls around him showing interest. He can also find a new one. If he does not love me, I can accept, but why not let me go?

He loves how you make him feel. He, like my ex gf are empty people. They fill themselves up with other peoples emotions, including love. They don't have the capability of manufacturing themselves. When they drain all of your life force they leave. And when you finally get yourself back together again they return.

My ex had a PD of some sort and she sucked me dry and left me, like you, exhausted. We are supply to them. They are incapable of truly loving us. They stay with people who are f'ed up and like them because they need to draw supply. And when they can't draw supply from a person with supply it's a challenge to them.

I feel for you and everyone else on this board. You all have gone through the same hell as I have. I think the best thing to do is to see a therapist and discover what in your core is causing you to tolerate this behavior. I've just started the process of figuring it out. I know my narc dad and codependent mom has caused this. Coming to terms with my inside programming will hopefully someday lead me to a happy, healthy and satisfying relationship.

My advice to you... .Be strong, stay NC and feel good about the fact you are not alone. We are all in this together.

[Mr.Downtrodden]

I don't know myself what "love" is - whether by words, or a actions. To me, it is an emotion available to everyone but myself.  

I was brought up to be considerate, non-judgmental, and accepting. Selfless. no matter what transpired, I always tried to take the high road.  forgive.  move on.  Five decades on the planet, and I am more lost than ever - I feel like a 5 year old with no direction. I'm still shell-shocked from my last r/s, almost 2 years.  I cycle from bitterness, to despair, to not caring about anything or anyone.  I'm a hollowed-out soul.

These last few relationships have riddled unfillable and unrepairable holes my psyche and confidence. I had no idea what BPD was, just that I felt everything happened to me was undeserved.  I never cheated.  I never lied.  i was always upfront, and trustworthy. Always willing to help when need be.

And what did I receive for my efforts?  Lies, hidden promiscuous behavior, promises made, but not kept, manipulation, all under the enmeshed guise of "accept me for who i am if you really love me and care about me".  Short answer - "I'll do what I want, with who I want, because I can."

By the time you realize the full extent of the damage caused by their behavior , much time and emotional feelings had been invested.  And you (I) are left with the toxic waste which, despite what some say, never really goes away. It leaves a scar.

I can see now why I have a target on my back for these women - women who seek out a "dream guy" as their emotional nucleus, until it is time to abandon or discard him for someone else.  I've never had a relationship with a "normal" woman" .  Only very few, and when I attempt to initiate a relationship, I am either politely dismissed right off the bat, or placed in the friendship-only category.  The only women who seem to want me are the BPDs.  Last four in the past 13 years, all have some form of BPD, by doing my homework reading here... .These are the women who want me. They don't care about my laundry list of "not-haves" that other women seek in a man. Every single one told me "i want you to just be who you are."

It is almost as if I am damned for good, having to settle just to have a possibility for anyone interested in me for me. and that's where the BPDS come into play.  I"m sure the next woman i may meet who shows any ounce of interest in me will have those traits, or some other disorder.  Because I'm damaged now.  I'm too old to re-do everything. I'm tired of therapy. I'm far too exhausted / tired from the relationship strain and the subsequent fallout.  Yet, I long for the physical touch.  I guess I'll have to pay someone for that basic human need from now on.  It will be safer than embarking upon another guaranteed BPD nightmare.

[apple2]

Hi apple2.  It is totally understandable why you are exhausted.  Being in a relationship with a BPD person is exhausting and confusing to define love in.  It is easy to have ones ability to judge destroyed in such a relationship.  The question to ask yourself is, how has your value been destroyed in it?  Sounds like he doesn't know what he really wants.

Hi Restored2,

I thought a normal person in a "relationship" can tell whether the other one cares about him/her, has feeling for him/her, etc. Mine pwBPD's behavior and words are always self-controversial, self-denial and are heading nowhere.

He said what he wanted (e.g. getting rid of me), but his behavior is something else. (e.g. trying to get me back) I feel, he neither want to give me normal love, nor cannot bear to lose me. it sucks.

[Mutt]

He said what he wanted (e.g. getting rid of me), but his behavior is something else. (e.g. trying to get me back) I feel, he neither want to give me normal love, nor cannot bear to lose me. it sucks.

Hi apple2,

My ex says one thing. Does another. The truth lies in her actions.

He lacks a stable sense of self,doesn't know whom he is and has an accute fear of being alone.

I'm sorry your going through this.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

Some Borderlines have an almost eery chameleon-like quality to their social interactions: voice, gestures, clothing, opinions can change according to the person or group being idealized at the moment.

Lacking a stable relationship to self, it is common for folks with this disorder to exhaustively question every fundamental belief others may take for granted: their religious convictions, sexual orientation or preferences, moral precepts, goals and purpose in life. Unable to provide it for themselves, Borderlines consistently seek external validation of their self-value. Often, the assimilation into a group with strict guidelines and principles (military, religious or even cultist organizations) can substitute for this acceptance.

Another facet of this lack of identity is an observed tendency on the part of those with BPD to frequently quit jobs and/or change careers. In many ways, even an older person with BPD can be much like a teenager fresh out of high-school, unsure of their future goals and plans and reluctant to commit to one career path.

Many loved ones wonder whether the person with BPD in their life suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder (now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder), because their self-presentation can shift so radically from situation to situation. This has many causes, one of them being a tendency of those with BPD to dissociate under stress [see criterion 9, below].

[Restored2]

Hi apple2.  BPD people are not "normal" people in the way that they operate.  BPD tends to override rational thinking, which appears to be the case for yours.  It appears that part of him wants to love you while the other part likely does not even know how to truly love you, or anyone else for that matter.  They are known for not knowing how to love.  There is often pull and push dynamics at work, which often leads to them running away from relationships when they get too close (intimate).  I encourage you to not allow him or anyone else to devalue you.  This would make it more difficult for you to ever part ways, as this would leave you in a state of weakness and vulnerability.

[apple2]

Hey all,

actually, mine is trying to recycle me again, but I am exhausted.

I am asking myself what is love? I don't understand it anymore. My value and ability to judge were destroyed through this "relationship".

In the past, I thought if a guy keeps texting you, dating with you, inviting you to do everything with him, sharing your story with his parents, picking you up, buying you flowers and presents, having vocation with you, cooking for you, and all of these happened after having sex with you, it at least means the guy is into you, or moreover, having true feeling for you or loving you. After two rounds recycling, I don't understand what love is at all.

I don't think he really loves me.  Just as he once said, he does not really love anyone. However, why he is trying to recycle me again and again? If he wants to find his own value in someone, there are girls around him showing interest. He can also find a new one. If he does not love me, I can accept, but why not let me go?

He loves how you make him feel. He, like my ex gf are empty people. They fill themselves up with other peoples emotions, including love. They don't have the capability of manufacturing themselves. When they drain all of your life force they leave. And when you finally get yourself back together again they return.

My ex had a PD of some sort and she sucked me dry and left me, like you, exhausted. We are supply to them. They are incapable of truly loving us. They stay with people who are f'ed up and like them because they need to draw supply. And when they can't draw supply from a person with supply it's a challenge to them.

I feel for you and everyone else on this board. You all have gone through the same hell as I have. I think the best thing to do is to see a therapist and discover what in your core is causing you to tolerate this behavior. I've just started the process of figuring it out. I know my narc dad and codependent mom has caused this. Coming to terms with my inside programming will hopefully someday lead me to a happy, healthy and satisfying relationship.

My advice to you... .Be strong, stay NC and feel good about the fact you are not alone. We are all in this together.

Hi Jack,

thanks for sharing your experience with me. I did see a therapist, but maybe because she is young and her focus is not PD, she was a good listener, but did not really give me lots of clues.

I read some books. I think the core of mine is my mom. I am not sure whether she is a pwBPD, but she had verbal abuse when she lost temper. Since my childhood, I learnt the interpretation method: not always hearing other people's words, but trying to see their good deeds. (except verbal abuse, my mom treated me actually well) Therefore, I was so tolerant in my "relationship".

I sometimes felt fooled by my "relationship". I got attached not so quickly at the beginning, but the person kept on contacting me and meeting me (we are in the same firm. It was like 3-5 weekdays + every weekend). This mode turned into a habit for me to always have him around. Then he abandoned me suddenly. After I began my new life, this cycle started from the very beginning.

NC is a good choice. Otherwise I would be crazy.  I think you are right. He loves how I made him feel.

[apple2]

These last few relationships have riddled unfillable and unrepairable holes my psyche and confidence. I had no idea what BPD was, just that I felt everything happened to me was undeserved.  I never cheated.  I never lied.  i was always upfront, and trustworthy. Always willing to help when need be.

And what did I receive for my efforts?  Lies, hidden promiscuous behavior, promises made, but not kept, manipulation, all under the enmeshed guise of "accept me for who i am if you really love me and care about me".  Short answer - "I'll do what I want, with who I want, because I can."[/quote]
Hey Mr. Downtrodden,

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. I can understand your feeling. Mine even said to me that he only wanted to manipulate me, only used me for sex, never loved me, will never marry me, will never belong to me alone... .etc. although his behavior was like a "normal gentle BF" when he wore the good mask. He told me every good thing he did is just pretending. (You know, usually people do bad things, and pretend to be good, not on the opposite) He saw I cried, and asked whether he needed to call the police to let me go. etc. ... .the most unbelievable thing happened in my past 6 months.

Even after I understand what BPD is, it is not easy to forget those words. Nightmare! I never imagined there is someone in the world who can speak like that. Even people really want to manipulate, they would not tell in front of me. Mine is really good at hurting me to death. I also asked myself, why I deserve this after all. He ruined my birthday, new year, hurt me with break-ups and never really felt sorry. I sometimes asked, is that the behavior of a human being?

The most terrible part is, he first gave me a beautiful fairy tale, and then ruin it in front of me.

I also hate myself for I am attached. I am not a co-dependent person. Just as you said, I was taught to always think about other people's need, not be selfish. Even right now, I actually have worry for him, when I think about his empty eyes, when I think about his inappropriate smile, instead of hating him. Because I really don't want to see that his spiritual world is really turning into a whole mess.

Deeply, I hope he can be healed.

Mr. we also need to heal ourselves. I don't know how can I encourage you, but you are not too old to make any change if you want. And if we do not let go the past, we can not embrace the future.

I don't know what love is, but I still choose to believe in it. We will be fine, although I can not tell you how long it will still take.

[goateeki]

I don't know myself what "love" is - whether by words, or a actions. To me, it is an emotion available to everyone but myself.  

I was brought up to be considerate, non-judgmental, and accepting. Selfless. no matter what transpired, I always tried to take the high road.  forgive.  move on.  Five decades on the planet, and I am more lost than ever - I feel like a 5 year old with no direction. I'm still shell-shocked from my last r/s, almost 2 years.  I cycle from bitterness, to despair, to not caring about anything or anyone.  I'm a hollowed-out soul.

These last few relationships have riddled unfillable and unrepairable holes my psyche and confidence. I had no idea what BPD was, just that I felt everything happened to me was undeserved.  I never cheated.  I never lied.  i was always upfront, and trustworthy. Always willing to help when need be.

And what did I receive for my efforts?  Lies, hidden promiscuous behavior, promises made, but not kept, manipulation, all under the enmeshed guise of "accept me for who i am if you really love me and care about me".  Short answer - "I'll do what I want, with who I want, because I can."

By the time you realize the full extent of the damage caused by their behavior , much time and emotional feelings had been invested.  And you (I) are left with the toxic waste which, despite what some say, never really goes away. It leaves a scar.

I can see now why I have a target on my back for these women - women who seek out a "dream guy" as their emotional nucleus, until it is time to abandon or discard him for someone else.  I've never had a relationship with a "normal" woman" .  Only very few, and when I attempt to initiate a relationship, I am either politely dismissed right off the bat, or placed in the friendship-only category.  The only women who seem to want me are the BPDs.  Last four in the past 13 years, all have some form of BPD, by doing my homework reading here... .These are the women who want me. They don't care about my laundry list of "not-haves" that other women seek in a man. Every single one told me "i want you to just be who you are."

It is almost as if I am damned for good, having to settle just to have a possibility for anyone interested in me for me. and that's where the BPDS come into play.  I"m sure the next woman i may meet who shows any ounce of interest in me will have those traits, or some other disorder.  Because I'm damaged now.  I'm too old to re-do everything. I'm tired of therapy. I'm far too exhausted / tired from the relationship strain and the subsequent fallout.  Yet, I long for the physical touch.  I guess I'll have to pay someone for that basic human need from now on.  It will be safer than embarking upon another guaranteed BPD nightmare.

This is really interesting and it's a bit sad, too.  I understand how you feel -- these things can be devastating. 

For me, my new relationship has shown me many things that my 20 year marriage was not, things that I wasn't aware (at the time) were absent.  My marriage began in tragedy (she had just been raped) and I always thought that the odd behavior, distancing, devaluation, and complete lack of love and affection were the residue of the rape, residue that would eventually wash away. 

My new relationship is easy.  It doesn't take a lot of effort.  It is warming and reciprocal, and there are no negative emotions in it.  I have realized that I am at my core a secure and happy person, and I now know, though there are probably things in my upbringing that cause me to take duty and loyalty a little too seriously (and maybe give me too high a tolerance for the flame that is burning my hand, which I do not pull away), that I really am worthy of the love of a good woman. 

So, to me, the key is understanding that your relationship should not be a test of the human spirit, as my marriage was.  You're not doing anything noble by staying in a relationship that causes self doubt, fear, and leaves you feeling starved for love.  As my late father said, life is way too short to spend even one minute of it unhappy. 

There are a lot of good people out there, and it didn't take a whole lot for me to adapt to living a happy life again once I involved myself with the right person.  It's a bit like riding a bicycle... .your heart doesn't forget what real love is, once you've known it.  I'm fortunate to have known it. 

[apple2]

He said what he wanted (e.g. getting rid of me), but his behavior is something else. (e.g. trying to get me back) I feel, he neither want to give me normal love, nor cannot bear to lose me. it sucks.

Hi apple2,

My ex says one thing. Does another. The truth lies in her actions.

He lacks a stable sense of self,doesn't know whom he is and has an accute fear of being alone.

I'm sorry your going through this.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

Some Borderlines have an almost eery chameleon-like quality to their social interactions: voice, gestures, clothing, opinions can change according to the person or group being idealized at the moment.

Lacking a stable relationship to self, it is common for folks with this disorder to exhaustively question every fundamental belief others may take for granted: their religious convictions, sexual orientation or preferences, moral precepts, goals and purpose in life. Unable to provide it for themselves, Borderlines consistently seek external validation of their self-value. Often, the assimilation into a group with strict guidelines and principles (military, religious or even cultist organizations) can substitute for this acceptance.

Another facet of this lack of identity is an observed tendency on the part of those with BPD to frequently quit jobs and/or change careers. In many ways, even an older person with BPD can be much like a teenager fresh out of high-school, unsure of their future goals and plans and reluctant to commit to one career path.

Many loved ones wonder whether the person with BPD in their life suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder (now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder), because their self-presentation can shift so radically from situation to situation. This has many causes, one of them being a tendency of those with BPD to dissociate under stress [see criterion 9, below].

Hey Mutt,

mine ex's behavior is really abnormal.

You know, even I read lots of books, and I am 99% sure that he suffers from at least one kind of PD, Sometimes I still doubt whether he really has it. Anyway I am not a psychologist to diagnose him.

I think I am kind of ridiculous. I actually hope he has PD, otherwise I cannot explain his behavior. I cannot believe there are some mean/bad people like that.