What everyone wants to hear, what we all know will happen.

[Targeted]

After eight months I broke down and allowed phone calls, it started off by just asking her to leave me alone and throw my clothing in goodwill, after the typical relationship rehashing I just said goodbye, but she kept calling and I just told her to stay with all the new guys that you told me about that want you, this is when the love bombing started, saying things like I cannot be with them I keep comparing them to you, I miss sleeping with you, making love with you, and so on and so on and so on, I told her I really miss all of those things too and I really love her but I believe there is something wrong due to the abuses she suffered In her life that prevent her from sustaining a relationship because the effects of The problem she is not seeing directly hurts me! This is when she got emotional and begged to go see somebody in counselling, she said six months, if we cannot figure this out in six months we will just walk away friends but please give me six months to work together because I can't get over you! At this point I really knew what to expect and my boundaries must hold! So I said okay book as a counsellor, The rest of the discussion was that I am not coming back to her house and sleeping over and doing house work this will be a strictly counselling relationship only, she agreed! A few days up talking afterwards she never made the appointment but did start making demands such as I can never drink a beer again, I have to stay away from my dysfunctional family, I have to get rid of all my friends that are not good Christians, A female friend of mine is a whore so she must be deleted from my life, mind you this is just somebody I know from high school and I do not have many female friends and the few that I had I already deleted during the relationship and that becomes insulting to people when you keep doing that, not to mention her enormous list of orbiters that she will not get rid of! She told me in counselling she wants me tested and evaluated for ADD, that's basically comes from her thinking I check out women in public and cannot stay focused on her, my attention goes elsewhere so I must have ADD! She also said I need to be tested and evaluated for bipolar, this is because my emotions are all over the place! But I think that is a normal natural reaction when you are in a relationship with a borderline, I could not just say I want her tested for BPD but I did say I believe there is something to her having abandonment issues and we should look into it, she responded with I do not have that! Then I asked her again have you made a appointment yet a few days later and she said did you get rid of the whore? You know I cannot do this if you are talking to her, so I asked her how she handled her laundry list of orbiters and she said she has not done anything! So I said if this is what you really want just make the appointment and we will figure everything out with a therapist, she told me to get rid of my high school acquaintance first, this is a person that I do not have any interesting but I just know from high school and initially when talking to her I said that I could do that but I changed my mind! I reminded her that I did all of this during the relationship and she did not so counselling it is! no more demands! She was begging me for counselling so we could stay together but obviously wants to control the whole thing as well!  This just tells me she's not ready and was willing to go to a few meetings for a recycling adventure! She then tried to put that guilt on me by saying this is all my fault because I chose my whore friend over her! I said I am sorry you see it that way but that is one of the things I think you need help for, if you don't want to go to counselling we do not need to talk, I have done all the giving in and all the giving of people I know already, she did not reciprocate that in the relationship! So I told her you do not want to do counselling then do you not call me again and go back to plenty of fishing! She tried taunting me with some guy she met home admitted to her that he received oral sex from a working girl in a strip bar. She told me how honest he is and I am a habitual liar! And blah blah blah! How great he is and how much I suck! I know for her that scenario that he was so honest about is her biggest fear in life! So I told her good luck in counselling on that issue with him and goodbye!  One of my new boundaries held,  no more giving or giving things up with out at least some level of reciprocation!

There will be no counselling!

[Ripped Heart]

Wow, that's quite the intense contact you had there Targeted. Well done for keeping your resolve though. How did the whole encounter make you feel? Did it bring back any of the feelings you had previously moved past?

I'm on LC with my exBPDgf after a few weeks of NC but only respond when I'm ready and she is the one who reaches out. At the moment it's just been about crisis in her life but I do know she has a replacement though not met him yet. I already see what's coming next so prepared for an onslaught just like this.

I'm sure by now you are able to read between the lines of what happened in your situation. How much of what you have written about there is projection and as you rightly pointed out, control. It comes across as though she is testing you to see how much control she still has and I applaud you for sticking to your boundaries.

[Targeted]

Ripped, I love reading your posts, you seem very well educated in this issue, it was very intense contact indeed!  I had to remove my feelings from the matter and deal with the facts!  That's hard to actually do. My " feelings " are to get help and have her as my wife because I love and care about her!  The " facts " are different though! I wanted to cave " be a doormat "

And honor her ridiculous requests out of love but that leads me back into the circle of doom! The white knight rescuer needs to mount is horse and hold is javelin a different way. This is only my conclusion of what I have learned here but if I could ever be helpful to her in any way I have to drop the lover role and play the parental role, I kind of believe in tough love, and if there is true love then tough love works!  There was a situation with my father where he was on drugs, he was doing cocaine, smoking crack, taking OxyContin, and destroying the family!  He was stealing from the house to support a tablet as well as make a home base to crash, I did not live there at the time but it was a family decision to change all the locks on the house and screw all the windows shut as well as secure the garage so nothing here was available to him at his own house! He was out on the street! He was hurting the family! Anger, frustration, hours and hours of family discussion is based around is issue instead of being a happy family? And all the rest!  I did all the work to secure the house and throw my father out of his own home! I did that out of love!  I believed he loved his family more and she is habit and traits that he fell accustomed to! So we bet it all on love? It worked! It was the only thing that was going to! He missed his family so much he went to a in-house program for eight months to get himself better so he could come home, our family's boundaries came up with a new one. And that was you are not coming home and you'll die on the street unless you fix yourself!  Tough love? He is home he is not perfect but he is clean and we can love him again!

That story just kind of explains where I am putting my ex! Unless you are willing to get the proper help for yourself for your problem my windows are screwed shut! My garage is locked down! All of the locks changed! And you are not coming home! You are not coming home because you hurt my family! I very much have a tendency to cave on my boundaries as a gesture of love to help somebody does the right thing. Now I know that only enables the behaviour you are trying to get rid of. Me telling her no and letting her go run off with some other guy to do her behaviours with what ever they are was far more difficult then throwing My father out of his own house. If I was to stay with her and work on this problem it would obviously take years and years and years of work before I am even happy?  I think if I am willing to put in that kind of investment, I deserve 1000% commitment and fidelity so one day I may actually get a return?  Just like the return to the family of my father!   My boundaries are driven into the ground now like the piles that shore up the ground for a new building, I do have a soft spot for her and I can see the Beauty that lives behind the beast but there is only one way that beauty can come to the surface! And it is not by me going back to just loving her. 

[fromheeltoheal]

In a healthy relationship both partners are there to give, not get, and it's effortless, since both partners are focused on the other person's needs, so everyone's needs get met.  You sound like you want to give to her Targeted, a healthy stance, but giving blindly won't work; even the most giving among us will eventually wonder where's mine?  If it's not being reciprocated it's time to move on.  A borderline cannot reciprocate, for the many reasons we're all familiar with.  At which point it's time to accept the love we're trying to give is misplaced, and it's time to find someone more worthy of it.  Good for you for maintaining boundaries, and a focus on boundaries wouldn't be as necessary if we weren't with perpetual boundary busters.

Time to start realizing we are great catches, and the right person would be grateful we're in their lives, treat us the way we deserve, and work on building something great together.  A borderline is not qualified, too much of their own sht to deal with, too much focus on attachments, too many distortions.  Time for an upgrade, the start of which is a letting go, sucks I know, especially when they come at us, but there's a lot of power in making a real decision and sticking to it, we feel great about ourselves.  Take care of you!

[Targeted]

From HTH!

That's where I'm at for me!

Thank you!

And I do want to keep giving, your right!  I just see now that when I give I need recognition for my efforts.  Not happening here! I can't tell anyone enough here that still has a little FOG that your boundries are what heals you!  Be your own king!  Reclaim your own personal sovereignty! That physically beautiful person that was out of your reach that you had was a T-REX in red riding hood clothing! But he or she showed you what makes you happy and what you can't stand!

[nowwhatz]

Ripped, I love reading your posts, you seem very well educated in this issue, it was very intense contact indeed!  I had to remove my feelings from the matter and deal with the facts!  That's hard to actually do. My " feelings " are to get help and have her as my wife because I love and care about her!  The " facts " are different though! I wanted to cave " be a doormat "

And honor her ridiculous requests out of love but that leads me back into the circle of doom! The white knight rescuer needs to mount is horse and hold is javelin a different way. This is only my conclusion of what I have learned here but if I could ever be helpful to her in any way I have to drop the lover role and play the parental role, I kind of believe in tough love, and if there is true love then tough love works!  There was a situation with my father where he was on drugs, he was doing cocaine, smoking crack, taking OxyContin, and destroying the family!  He was stealing from the house to support a tablet as well as make a home base to crash, I did not live there at the time but it was a family decision to change all the locks on the house and screw all the windows shut as well as secure the garage so nothing here was available to him at his own house! He was out on the street! He was hurting the family! Anger, frustration, hours and hours of family discussion is based around is issue instead of being a happy family? And all the rest!  I did all the work to secure the house and throw my father out of his own home! I did that out of love!  I believed he loved his family more and she is habit and traits that he fell accustomed to! So we bet it all on love? It worked! It was the only thing that was going to! He missed his family so much he went to a in-house program for eight months to get himself better so he could come home, our family's boundaries came up with a new one. And that was you are not coming home and you'll die on the street unless you fix yourself!  Tough love? He is home he is not perfect but he is clean and we can love him again!

That story just kind of explains where I am putting my ex! Unless you are willing to get the proper help for yourself for your problem my windows are screwed shut! My garage is locked down! All of the locks changed! And you are not coming home! You are not coming home because you hurt my family! I very much have a tendency to cave on my boundaries as a gesture of love to help somebody does the right thing. Now I know that only enables the behaviour you are trying to get rid of. Me telling her no and letting her go run off with some other guy to do her behaviours with what ever they are was far more difficult then throwing My father out of his own house. If I was to stay with her and work on this problem it would obviously take years and years and years of work before I am even happy?  I think if I am willing to put in that kind of investment, I deserve 1000% commitment and fidelity so one day I may actually get a return?  Just like the return to the family of my father!   My boundaries are driven into the ground now like the piles that shore up the ground for a new building, I do have a soft spot for her and I can see the Beauty that lives behind the beast but there is only one way that beauty can come to the surface! And it is not by me going back to just loving her. 

Wow Targeted! That is intense.  The last thing you said really hits home for be about seeing the beauty that lives behind the beast.  That has always been my greatest weakness. 

Sounds like you are doing well!

[downnout98]

Targeted, I feel your pain. My exBPDgf decided to go with my replacement quickly after we separated. I was hoping that we could work our issues out but she picked. This guy up and had him start living with her very quickly. I have been on and off no contact. She has been recently texting me that she misses me, that she loves me still and she misses the sex we had. It makes me feel sick because every night I have to bear the fact that she is with this other guy.

I absolutely love her and keep giving in and hoping that she will want me again. The last time we talked, I started off good and she were reminiscing the good times. Then it turned into how this was my fault that we were apart and that this guy was nice and doesn't deserve her cheating on him. That she was so confused. That she knows my family and exwife not accepting her are huge triggers for her. My family has witnessed quite a bit and are the ones that keep telling me to run. She struggles with my daughter because of my exwife. The anger just started to come out and I was doing my best to keep her calm and defend myself and my family.

She keeps saying that this guy has no drama and that is why she is with him. I am having a hard time letting her go and take the advice of HTH.

[Targeted]

Nowwhatz.

I do see the beauty behind the beast!  But I don't want to continuously fight the beast to enjoy the beauty! I have come a long way and thank you for noticing! I have no idea what will happen in the future but it is outside my boundries it will be nothing!  I can't make someone want to live inside my boundries but all I can do is keep them out! It still hurts a little but it hurts a lot less than allowing a boundrie buster!

[Targeted]

Targeted, I feel your pain. My exBPDgf decided to go with my replacement quickly after we separated. I was hoping that we could work our issues out but she picked. This guy up and had him start living with her very quickly. I have been on and off no contact. She has been recently texting me that she misses me, that she loves me still and she misses the sex we had. It makes me feel sick because every night I have to bear the fact that she is with this other guy.

I absolutely love her and keep giving in and hoping that she will want me again. The last time we talked, I started off good and she were reminiscing the good times. Then it turned into how this was my fault that we were apart and that this guy was nice and doesn't deserve her cheating on him. That she was so confused. That she knows my family and exwife not accepting her are huge triggers for her. My family has witnessed quite a bit and are the ones that keep telling me to run. She struggles with my daughter because of my exwife. The anger just started to come out and I was doing my best to keep her calm and defend myself and my family.

She keeps saying that this guy has no drama and that is why she is with him. I am having a hard time letting her go and take the advice of HTH.

Same family issues here!  It is hard to remember that she only thinks this guy has no drama because it is the idealisation phase! Sky probably has more drama and neither did you, she is the drama!  My ex has a paranoia about other women and infidelity! Typical DPD with the fear of lies!  She thinks everybody is always lying to her! She will put you into a corner with 1 million questions and confuse you and then turn around and tell you how you lied to her and it is all your fault for being a liar! She is praising this new guy for telling the truth and he is not a liar, he admitted to her making a mistake and receiving oral sex from a working girl in a strip club, I know my ex!  Right now is idealisations fence and she is praising him on his truthfulness, but with in a few months she will be accusing him of receiving oral sex from working girls even if he is not! Thinking about the disorder she wants the truth she got the truth and the truth is what is going to put the fear in her head in that case and it will never work'. All she will think about is his history of infidelity and he will be beaten down by a baseball bat for it!

[downwhim]

The hardest part is we all fell in love with borderlines. Today is gorgeous where I live. The sun is out and the beach is clear and I miss him! It's just so darn hard. I am going out tonight like last night but I feel really empty.

Letting go is the hardest part. Knowing he is with someone else enjoying this gorgeous day and missing him  

[Targeted]

DW,  I am at a point where she actually wants me back, looking rationally at the deal it is not a win-win for me. She told me I have to get up my crowd of people, she'ssaid I have to give up one female that I have known since high school because she said that she is a whore, I do not know about that but I do know this girl has problems as well and I am not interested in her I just know her. We know each other in high school she got married and I got married and we respect each other's relationships and did not speak at all for 26 years, when I started dating my ex I told my friend that for some reason as being in contact is bothering my girlfriend and she had no problem with that, The boundary was respected! Although my ex never did the same thing for me, she actually kept adding more and more new orbiters. Even though my friend is not a perfect person we have great boundaries as friends, so me insulting her once again I getting rid of her when my ex could never do the same it's not something I want to do, I do believe that these kinds of concerns are important in a relationship and I do not mind backing away gracefully from female friends and acquaintances for the sake of a good relationship, problem is I have to give up everything immediately for a relationship with a borderline, that means years of intensive work in therapy and counselling for things to even get better, I have never read here that things get normal! So in a nutshell I have to give up everybody I know who is my support system for somebody that needs to do that much work on themselves still?  What is in that for me?  I know her orbiters are not going to go away because she just declassify is them to France and tells me they are good christians. I can understand a couple of friends of the opposite sex but not that many!  It was a nice feeling that she wanted to try counselling but I think she confused the word with wanting to try controlling! I would rather miss her then be hurt by her again, missing someone is a better feeling than hurt.

[eyvindr]

Glad to hear you're doing so much better, Targeted. It's encouraging to read about someone enforcing their boundaries, seeing the huge positive impact it has on their ability to regain control of their own life and state of mind.

You nailed it here, too -- this certainly sums up my feelings:

It was a nice feeling that she wanted to try counselling but I think she confused the word with wanting to try controlling! I would rather miss her then be hurt by her again, missing someone is a better feeling than hurt.

Stay strong.

[nowwhatz]

DW,  I am at a point where she actually wants me back, looking rationally at the deal it is not a win-win for me. She told me I have to get up my crowd of people, she'ssaid I have to give up one female that I have known since high school because she said that she is a whore, I do not know about that but I do know this girl has problems as well and I am not interested in her I just know her. We know each other in high school she got married and I got married and we respect each other's relationships and did not speak at all for 26 years, when I started dating my ex I told my friend that for some reason as being in contact is bothering my girlfriend and she had no problem with that, The boundary was respected! Although my ex never did the same thing for me, she actually kept adding more and more new orbiters. Even though my friend is not a perfect person we have great boundaries as friends, so me insulting her once again I getting rid of her when my ex could never do the same it's not something I want to do, I do believe that these kinds of concerns are important in a relationship and I do not mind backing away gracefully from female friends and acquaintances for the sake of a good relationship, problem is I have to give up everything immediately for a relationship with a borderline, that means years of intensive work in therapy and counselling for things to even get better, I have never read here that things get normal! So in a nutshell I have to give up everybody I know who is my support system for somebody that needs to do that much work on themselves still?  What is in that for me?  I know her orbiters are not going to go away because she just declassify is them to France and tells me they are good christians. I can understand a couple of friends of the opposite sex but not that many!  It was a nice feeling that she wanted to try counselling but I think she confused the word with wanting to try controlling! I would rather miss her then be hurt by her again, missing someone is a better feeling than hurt.

Targeted,

I am really impressed and inspired by the way you are handling this onslaught!

What you said about having to always fight the beast to get to the beauty and the last thing you said above ... ."missing someone is a better feeling than hurt"  I am committing to memory.  Thank you.

I have been through many recycles over 4 years and, aside from work, I essentially gave up my entire life, friends and family to be with the gf. It has caused me damages I am not sure I can recover from (I now have depression, started taking meds 2 years ago for panic attacks, r/s with my children not great, friends don't trust me, and I owe 2 years of back taxes... .and there are now signs my career may be on a downhill slide... .all the while I was, and am still to some degree, fighting the BEAST to see the beauty... .it has been a war).

Please keep doing what you are doing my friend. Don't end up like me.

Your ex is saying she is interested in therapy - great. If she does it can't hurt but there is a very slim chance she will stick with it and will probably need a caretaker for the rest of her life.

Mine was in therapy last year and it helped. I dare say our r/s was for a short while almost normal. She was in therapy because she had to be... .court ordered... .but later she played the system and probation officer with her tearful Perfect Victim charm and beauty.  The last time I pleaded with her to get back to therapy she scoffed and said she doesn't believe in it.   While it seems your ex and mine are very different in personality from what I am reading yours will not stick with therapy.

Thank you again Targeted for sharing this. Your story is helping me make it through a rough weekend.

[Targeted]

Nowwhatz,

I was on the same path, my head was not into my job, I lost that one, all friends walked away watching me destroy myself, I owe a ton of money too! My car was 17 years old and dying!  I had to take a job making almost 50% less than I made previously. Family stopped helping with anything but my kids.  It was a massive downhill loss for me!  I love that I care about her but there is only one way this could work, and she is not willing to do that!  After eight months separated a friend helped me out by selling me a nice vehicle for about 4500 dollars less than its value, my relationship with my family and children is better! I got a new job making about 30% more than I do now, I'm not out of the financial woods yet but I like the improvement instead of decline! Going backwards in life is no longer a option. She likes to put me down as a bar hopping biker with a evil crowd but I am responding right now as I sit and watch my beautiful daughter " that she said looks like a witch " dancing at her dance competition!

And she's out with a new victim!   Who is the better person here?  Moving life foreward and not going backwards is a good feeling, very rewarding, even if it's only baby steps. Emotional counts as much as financial!

[Trog]

Nowwhatz,

I was on the same path, my head was not into my job, I lost that one, all friends walked away watching me destroy myself, I owe a ton of money too! My car was 17 years old and dying!  I had to take a job making almost 50% less than I made previously. Family stopped helping with anything but my kids.  It was a massive downhill loss for me!  I love that I care about her but there is only one way this could work, and she is not willing to do that!  After eight months separated a friend helped me out by selling me a nice vehicle for about 4500 dollars less than its value, my relationship with my family and children is better! I got a new job making about 30% more than I do now, I'm not out of the financial woods yet but I like the improvement instead of decline! Going backwards in life is no longer a option. She likes to put me down as a bar hopping biker with a evil crowd but I am responding right now as I sit and watch my beautiful daughter " that she said looks like a witch " dancing at her dance competition!

And she's out with a new victim!   Who is the better person here?  Moving life foreward and not going backwards is a good feeling, very rewarding, even if it's only baby steps. Emotional counts as much as financial!

Impressed. I need a leaf from your book.

[Targeted]

TROG!

I can't say enough that boundries are it!

Either you fit or you don't!  I will always give and try but step outside of my beliefs and boundries and you can shake your pretty butt down the road of repetition!

[Ripped Heart]

Targeted, I was originally going to say that much of what was going on in terms of u-turn with your ex was projection. Some of it seems quite clear cut projection but I think it's more than that.

One thing is certainly clear from it all, she hasn't suddenly had an epiphany and changed overnight. Demanding you remove your support network, some could say it's a sign of control, seeing how far you would be willing to go for her. It could also be her own insecurities coming in to play too, people she felt may have "influenced" your decisions about her if they are out of the picture she doesn't have to feel guilty about it. My exN/BPDw did something similar with my mother, when I stood up to her abuse she automatically assumed it's because my mother and my sister had played a part because they didn't like her behaviour towards me so I was told I had to cut them out of my life. I was told that the only family I needed was her and her NPD mother. Nothing at all to do with me, it was all about her and at first I thought it was about control (which it partly is) but a lot of it was to do with her own insecurities as she truly believed I could abandon her because I was told to. That was purely projection and it all made sense when she demanded I cut my family out of my life because my mother told her, she controls everything I do and that I would do anything she told me to.

It was difficult because I could see my mother saying that (uBPD according to T) but the irony is I keep my mother at arms length in terms of my life because she does try and interfere, also, if anything, I tend to do the opposite of a lot she says because I know where her thinking is coming from. My mother gets quite annoyed because there is a lot I don't share with her and my exN/BPDw knew that so she tried to manipulate the situation on the things she did know. The validation I got was when she pulled the plug and rather than beg, I walked away. That's when she realised it was our T who had a hand in helping me gather strength and turned on him.

I told my exN/BPDw that I would never cut my family out of my life but did promise her that I would never speak to my family about our marriage. She cut my family out instead which worked for all of us until she started to get paranoid because my family never contacted her and she needed that control. The situation you find yourself in, if you were to cut these people out for your ex it wouldn't be the end. Chances are you would start getting accused of secretly keeping a relationship going behind her back, she might start pushing for you to have contact with people again simply because she HAS to know what people are saying about her. Regardless of which direction you go, you cannot win. So the boundaries you enforced are perfect because you are looking at it from the viewpoint of protecting you and not appeasing your ex.

The other side of her thinking may very well be that if you can't do what she is asking you to do, then you obviously don't have feelings for her and must hate her which is usually where the anger then comes from because the negative feelings she is having must be projected somewhere.

She may also have reached out and finding that you are willing to accommodate some aspects, is feeling engulfment so is making unrealistic demands to either push you away, test your limitations or see which are the buttons she can press. Either way, she is checking on whether the hook is still in, keeping you close but not too close.

Discovered this week that my replacement is 20 years older than me, not in great shape and lives 200 miles away from her. She is meeting him next weekend for the first time. She struggled with me being 70 miles away despite the fact I did a lot of the driving too so I already see a major potential for failure. Would explain why I got the texts this week showing an interest in how I was, how my children are and the all time classic "I didn't deserve someone like you" Mine is definitely testing the water so if things go south, I have no doubt she will be looking for her favourite rescuer to jump in and save her and it does sound like your ex reaching out could very well be for the same reasons 

[Targeted]

Ripped,

All aspects are covered here, all questions are on the table!

First question!  Can my boundries be met so I can work on the rest?

So far the answer is NO!