Trying to stay civil, and avoid warm and friendly

[Grey Kitty]

My wife's BPD wasn't obvious for the first decade of our marriage, gradually building to be bad... .and ~three years ago through effort on both our parts, she mostly recovered. She sure isn't perfect, but doesn't have the full blown set of BPD behaviors anymore. She did cheat, and did decide that she wanted out of our marriage. We're living separately, and have been for months now. (I've posted a lot on staying already) She also gave me better closure than any pwBPD ever could, even if it isn't always there.

So... .now... .when it comes to dividing things up / personal business, we're both being reasonable. We're both being pretty polite. And I do still like her, I do still love her, and still enjoy her company. And I need to move on, so I'm limiting emotional contact with her to a bare minimum. A week ago, she got all her stuff out of where I'm living, and moved several hours away from me. Since then, I've had very light email conversations with her about business stuff.

I've gotten "friendly" contacts the last couple days. Like this text:

Namaste. Thinking of you today, Grey. I hope you are well.

I don't know what to say back.

I just feel kinda crappy. I want to move on emotionally, and this yanks me back in.

I also feel like ignoring a friendly "hello" like that is rude, and that's not the sort of person I want to be.

Yes, I have been quite clear that I'm not able to be deeply connected friends with her now. (Maybe someday... .dunno)

I wish I was more past this already. I've been processing the end of my marriage for five months now... .with twists and turns and uncertainty 'till the last month or so.

[Suzn]

Tough situation Grey. Maybe just Namaste and thank you? I get needing to have some space, it's healthy for a period of time after a breakup. It may be good to stretch out the period of time when you respond. If you see it ramping up more it may be time for some controlled contact for a while. What do you think?

[fromheeltoheal]

I do still like her, I do still love her, and still enjoy her company. And I need to move on

There's the conflict, and to me the only way to process that and get your head straight about where you are, where you're going, and whom you're going with is time away from her physically and emotionally, whatever that takes.

[Painterly2014]

I have a similar situation.  After a 25 year marriage we are getting divorced.  He moved out 5 months ago and has a replacement working out nicely.  The house has sold and we are dividing up everything and taking care of the business which will be done in apx 3 weeks.  We are both very polite and want to be fair about everything.  But, Its almost like the nicer he is the more pain I have.  He is offering to help me in the new house set up the dog area and build shelves etc. Even though I need this help I am going to say I have it covered.  Its just not as easy for me to put on the act and I am tired of the pain.  Keeping him as a "friend" is to much right now.  i am going to need the space to be able to live my life and move forward.  I have been in limbo for far too long.

[zeus123]

grey. don't respond to her text yet, wait and see if she reveals more about her intent.

[Grey Kitty]

She's also posted a bit on facebook in public, and sent me another facebook message.

She's been coping with depression and anxiety for a while now. Since she left a week ago, she has hit another relatively acute period of depression. So some of her agenda is looking for support from me while she's feeling down.

I know that if I do that I'll be working against my process of detaching from her and our marriage.

If she were to express an interest in trying again on our marriage, it would be a different thing, and I would consider it. This looks and feels nothing like that. I'm really not expecting that anymore. Perhaps there is still some hope buried deep in my heart, but not much of that either.

[Turkish]

GK,

My Ex split me white 3 months before she moved out,.all the while conducting a juvenile r/s outside of our home, apart from me and our kids. She needed me, and I got that she wanted me to accept everything, and be something like BFF. You were with your wife for a lot longer than I was with mine. Personally, I still struggle with: "I hate her." "I still love her." "I still have 'a' love for her as she told me she had for me." And yes, even over a year out, I still miss her.

I don't get exlicit messages like you do, but sometimes implicitly I do, and it's confusing.

What does your gut tell you? Can you be something like friends, even as you process the legalities of your divorce? If so, what's healthy for you?

[babyducks]

Grey,

I have no real words of advice, but I did want to offer my support.   

I've read an awful lot of your posts over the years and always appreciated them.   Thank you.

You've helped me a lot.

I wish you the very best.

'ducks

[jhkbuzz]

She's also posted a bit on facebook in public, and sent me another facebook message.

She's been coping with depression and anxiety for a while now. Since she left a week ago, she has hit another relatively acute period of depression. So some of her agenda is looking for support from me while she's feeling down.

I know that if I do that I'll be working against my process of detaching from her and our marriage.

If she were to express an interest in trying again on our marriage, it would be a different thing, and I would consider it. This looks and feels nothing like that. I'm really not expecting that anymore. Perhaps there is still some hope buried deep in my heart, but not much of that either.

This one is HARD... .I went through something similar after my b/u.

I, like you, told her that I needed a time and space - we were still in contact but over pragmatic things.  She would have preferred more contact but I still had strong feelings for her and I couldn't do the "friends" thing - I would have had to "fake" being okay with that - and I wasn't.

I had to reinforce my boundaries a few times, and I did it without a problem because I was an emotional wreck and I REALLY needed that time and space.

You are under no obligation (F.O.G.) to respond to anything that's triggering to you with anything less than the reinforcement of your boundaries. I'm not saying you need to be cruel about it, btw.  It's just very clear that you know what you need - and I hope you have enough love and compassion for yourself to do it.

[Grey Kitty]

I think I've figured out my question better... .which is half-way to a good answer.

I don't want to engage with friendly chatty banter with my wife. It will work against my own healing process. I know this. [Update: Recently she poked me on facebook... .This morning she tagged me in a facebook viral image, a joke that I did find funny... .it continues]

I've chosen not to answer the phone when she calls because I know that a 'friendly' conversation will sooner or later veer into emotionally charged territory that I want to avoid.

I've both shown her that I'm doing these things and told her that I am doing them, and even told her that it is how I need to process the end of our marriage.

I've also told her many times that I would be willing to work on our marriage with her, and asked her if there is anything I could do differently that would help. She hasn't asked for anything, and acknowledges that she hasn't asked me for anything like this. And she's been pretty clear that she either can't commit to our marriage, or doesn't even know what that would look like.



... .so... .with all that background... .here's my question for myself. (Any input welcomed.)

What is the kindest response I can give to these various 'friendly' ways of reaching out toward me that I don't want? And what about indirect cries for help/support/enabling that I expect as well?

Three possibilities come to mind:

• Choose not to respond to them.



• Give polite responses that discourage the conversation from getting started/going further; short impersonal answers to questions, not asking further questions.



• Gently but clearly stating I choose not to engage in this.

@suzn, Yes, spacing out my responses is a great idea. I've done it a bit ever since we separated months ago... .partly because they often yank on my heartstrings, and I know that I need to think before I respond, often calling a supporter or posting here first.

[tjay933]

imo-the quicker you respond to their pokes and cries for attention, the quicker they re-poke and the game begins a new for them.

you know what is good for you and your personal healing-do that and you'll have no regrets.

it is very hard for us not to just "be nice" because it's part of who we are but if yours is anything like mine, you give an inch, they take 10 miles. if you do something nice once, you should be doing it all the time ten-fold and they have no qualms about letting you know how bad you are not to continue doing it-whatever it is. I have to hold myself back regularly from doing anything "nice" or "considerate" because I know that he would use that as leverage against me and demand this all the time. it's very hard to do but I know for my sanity/healing and his clarity in his situation, it needs to be done.

stay safe. remember you can always sleep on it, it doesn't need to be done/decided right away. I always find that thinking something over and not reacting immediately gives me the time needed to clear in my mind how I would like to react.

[Mutt]

Three possibilities come to mind:

• Choose not to respond to them.



• Give polite responses that discourage the conversation from getting started/going further; short impersonal answers to questions, not asking further questions.



• Gently but clearly stating I choose not to engage in this.

@suzn, Yes, spacing out my responses is a great idea. I've done it a bit ever since we separated months ago... .partly because they often yank on my heartstrings, and I know that I need to think before I respond, often calling a supporter or posting here first.

Hi Grey Kitty,

I'm sorry your going through this.

Separation is tough.

Do you think she'll respect your boundaries with options 2 and 3?

Do you think it may be wise to choose option 1?

Give your heart time to catch up with your head, detach and heal and then revisit options 2 and 3 a little further down the road?

[jhkbuzz]

I don't want to engage with friendly chatty banter with my wife.

Yes, it feels like a stab to the heart, doesn't it? I couldn't do it while I still had feelings for my ex - still don't think I could. I was gentle with myself when i realized this - I was devastated by her behaviors and it was okay that I needed time and space for myself so I could heal. No matter how much I still had the urge to put her emotional needs first, I HAD to start taking care of myself - or I was going to go off the deep end.

she's been pretty clear that she either can't commit to our marriage, or doesn't even know what that would look like.

So she wants a friendship and you want a r/s - correct?  If you are not pushing for the r/s at this point because you understand that she's not in that space, you have every right to expect that your boundaries will be respected as well. She should not be pushing for a friendship when you've made it clear that you're not in that headspace.



... .so... .with all that background... .here's my question for myself. (Any input welcomed.)

What is the kindest response I can give to these various 'friendly' ways of reaching out toward me that I don't want? And what about indirect cries for help/support/enabling that I expect as well?

Three possibilities come to mind:

• Choose not to respond to them.



• Give polite responses that discourage the conversation from getting started/going further; short impersonal answers to questions, not asking further questions.



• Gently but clearly stating I choose not to engage in this.

I appreciate your gentle kindness, but it sounds like you've made it very clear that you don't want a friendship and she continues to cross boundaries.  Not that uncommon with pwBPD, but it's tugging at your heartstrings, which is dangerous imho.

option 1: A definite possibility, but as you ignore she may become more frantic - which would become harder for you to ignore at this stage of your healing.

option 2: It seems like you've tried this?

option 3:  Sounds like option 2?

option 4:  Blocking?

[Grey Kitty]

Three possibilities come to mind:

• Choose not to respond to them.



• Give polite responses that discourage the conversation from getting started/going further; short impersonal answers to questions, not asking further questions.



• Gently but clearly stating I choose not to engage in this.

@suzn, Yes, spacing out my responses is a great idea. I've done it a bit ever since we separated months ago... .partly because they often yank on my heartstrings, and I know that I need to think before I respond, often calling a supporter or posting here first.

Hi Grey Kitty,

I'm sorry your going through this.

Separation is tough.

Do you think she'll respect your boundaries with options 2 and 3?

Do you think it may be wise to choose option 1?

Give your heart time to catch up with your head, detach and heal and then revisit options 2 and 3 a little further down the road?

option 4:  Blocking?

Yes, giving my heart time to catch up is where I'm at. The last couple of days I've been still low-energy low-grade depressed, but haven't had as many periods of sad open feelings. I'm hoping to get my motivation back next.

Options #2 and #3 are not me enforcing boundaries. They are making requests, setting rules, or offering social cues which can be taken at will. So the question of whether she will respect them doesn't apply.

Option #1 or especially #4 are boundary enforcement actions on my part.

I'm not going to block her--we still have a lot of personal business connections, which may require communications. Blocking her would be a bad move there, and fortunately, not one that I need.

Anyhow... .I suppose the 'kindest' thing would be to respond in genuine friendship, what her actions (and some words) indicate that she wants, but that isn't what I want to do. Any of my other choices are a rejection, and wrapping it up and putting a bow on it doesn't make it feel better to the recipient.

If it continues for a while longer, or if it becomes more intense, I may respond in a way that doesn't encourage further such contact, like suzn suggested.

[Mutt]

You know her best Grey Kitty and it sounds like you have it figured out.

Be careful you don't trigger her fear of abandonment, requests, rules and social queues go out the window.

[Grey Kitty]

You know her best Grey Kitty and it sounds like you have it figured out.

Be careful you don't trigger her fear of abandonment, requests, rules and social queues go out the window.

I'm not worried about that... .as I said in the first post... .I think she's too high functioning to qualify for a definition of BPD anymore. No longer prone to abusive behavior, or full dysregulations. Lately she's been dealing with depression and anxiety, but those don't trigger 'normal' BPD bad behavior anymore.

[Mutt]

She did cheat, and did decide that she wanted out of our marriage. We're living separately, and have been for months now. (I've posted a lot on staying already) She also gave me better closure than any pwBPD ever could, even if it isn't always there.

And I do still like her, I do still love her, and still enjoy her company.

My bad Grey. I'm sorry, she's mostly recovered from BPD.  

Have I got this right? You've mostly posted on Staying?

You've lived separately for months.

She wants out.

Chance of reconciliation?

[Grey Kitty]

You've lived separately for months.

She wants out.

Chance of reconciliation?

Respectively: Yes. Yes. I've given up on reconciliation.

We have a long enmeshed/codependent history together, and while we've both made a lot of progress from there, my wife seems either stuck, or unable/unwilling to work on it while staying in a romantic relationship with me. That and for her, much of the romance seems to have evaporated. (Could be left over black and white thinking)

She thinks she might be ready for some kind of r/s in a year or more. Being half-way in a r/s with her is something I've done too long to be healthy for me any more.

She isn't willing/able to commit to reconciliation with me. I'm through being the only one committed to it.

In some months/years, probably after we finish dividing everything up, and probably get a divorce finalized, I hope to be ready to resume being a close friend to her. She seems to want that now; I don't know how she will feel later.

[Mutt]

my wife seems either stuck, or unable/unwilling to work on it while staying in a romantic relationship with me.

Has she checked out?

[Skip]

Its easy to see why this is hard for you.

You want to continue in the marriage and she doesn't. She wants to have a cordial friendship of sorts but it makes you feel vulnerable as it far less than you want and she has all in her control.

You can probably end the friendship, but that too will feel bad - maybe worse if it triggers abandonment anxiety on either side.

Maybe its best to start accept that this is not want you want and that minimal shallow responses are good enough will keep the lines open... .but do not emotionally invest yourself in it at any level. She will likely adjust to your adjustment.

It will be hard at first. You may feel put off by some and its ok to just ignore some texts or sit on them for a day. Detach from it.

In time you won't feel so vulnerable/awkward.

This is a hard time.