Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

First off, I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

Secondly, it's mainly speculation out of a curiosity that I have.

I've spent a lot of time reading here and I realize I'm only addressing what I see on the surface, but it seems that great people usually get hooked up with BPD inflicted individuals. Like I says I'm just addressing what I see on the surface. The questions the statements the descriptions, all that from significant others as well as wives and husbands, or should I say ex-wives and ex-husbands. I fall into the category of X boyfriend significant other etc.

Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives? Quite frankly, I'd love to meet someone that was a BPD's significant other! Sometimes I like to say why did you choose that person instead of me? As a man reading posts by some very loving, caring, considerate women that have been, unfortunately, matched up to an abusive BPD partner, I've got to say that some of the sentiments that I feel coming from these women are just absolutely astonishing and beautiful.

So why is it that we meet up with the wrong people? Do we need a club that caters to loving caring individuals that are honest and looking for the same things in life but somebody else's?

I know dating sites are supposed to do that. So why doesn't somebody come along, and tell me that I'm the man of their dreams, and that they would do anything for me, and look forward to a loving, lasting, lifetime relationship. My making sense here?

I don't think it's fair that a great person gets hooked up with somebody that is just going to abuse the crap out of them and make their life miserable. We could always make more money one way or another, but we can't get the years that we spent with these people back.

Any takers on this crazy theory?

[DyingLove]

First off, I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

Secondly, it's mainly speculation out of a curiosity that I have.

I've spent a lot of time reading here and I realize I'm only addressing what I see on the surface, but it seems that great people usually get hooked up with BPD inflicted individuals. Like I says I'm just addressing what I see on the surface. The questions the statements the descriptions, all that from significant others as well as wives and husbands, or should I say ex-wives and ex-husbands. I fall into the category of X boyfriend significant other etc.

Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives? Quite frankly, I'd love to meet someone that was a BPD's significant other! Sometimes I like to say why did you choose that person instead of me? As a man reading posts by some very loving, caring, considerate women that have been, unfortunately, matched up to an abusive BPD partner, I've got to say that some of the sentiments that I feel coming from these women are just absolutely astonishing and beautiful.

So why is it that we meet up with the wrong people? Do we need a club that caters to loving caring individuals that are honest and looking for the same things in life but somebody else's?

I know dating sites are supposed to do that. So why doesn't somebody come along, and tell me that I'm the man of their dreams, and that they would do anything for me, and look forward to a loving, lasting, lifetime relationship. My making sense here?

I don't think it's fair that a great person gets hooked up with somebody that is just going to abuse the crap out of them and make their life miserable. We could always make more money one way or another, but we can't get the years that we spent with these people back.

Any takers on this crazy theory?

[Skip]

I don't think it's fair that a great person gets hooked up with somebody that is just going to abuse the crap out of them and make their life miserable. We could always make more money one way or another, but we can't get the years that we spent with these people back.

Any takers on this crazy theory?

There is an assumption in all of this that the problems lie solely with the other party... .rarely is that the case.

[livednlearned]

There is a book called "High Conflict Couple" about relationships where both people have PDs. One might be narcissistic, the other BPD. Apparently, this is a much more common combination than we might think. Some of these types of "nons" are on these boards, either recognizing that they have traits of the disorder, or in full denial. They figure that if the other person has BPD, then that means they are the non-disordered person.

So the "ex" of someone who is BPD is not necessarily healthy, at least in terms of self-awareness and a secure attachment style with regulated emotions. There are also a lot of people on these boards who are codependent, or call it whatever you want -- they may have avoidant attachment styles, or are in some way deeply hurt by an invalidating family of origin, and the BPD relationship was just one of many unhealthy relationships, although perhaps the most destructive. Many people here also have disordered family members and grew up thinking that abuse and BPD behavior was normal.

People here might be great, but that doesn't mean they would necessarily make wonderful healthy partners.

It's also very easy to seem great on the Internet. My ex has thousands of followers online. They think he's wonderful, may of them are women who wrote me after our divorce to explain how stupid I was to let a good guy get away.

There are people here who stay angry and hurt for years and aren't willing to look at their own dynamic in the relationship, which is the key to healing, imo. They aren't ready to face the hard reality about why they got in the relationship in the first place. For many of us, we got into the relationships because the infatuation and idolization felt fantastic! And then when it went away, instead of registering it as abuse, we did anything we could to try and get things back to what was essentially a fantasy.

It's really painful to be in these relationships, and very painful to end them. But in my experience, it's even more painful to fully recover from them, so I understand why there is a tendency to get stuck. The same reason pwBPD might not want to look at their stuff is the same reason why people here might not want to. It hurts, it's painful, and it takes a lot of courage to do the work.

[Grey Kitty]

I don't want to be snarky... .but there is more than one way of looking at this... .

Would really want a dating pool where your common ground is prior bad judgement to have chosen to be in an abusive relationship with someone who is mentally ill?

[Vatz]

There is an assumption in all of this that the problems lie solely with the other party... .rarely is that the case.

Right on point actually.

I can definitely confirm this. I stayed with my ex because at the end of the day *I* made the choice to do so. Part of it was curiosity to see if things could resolve, part was the challenge-if I was *better* physically than her affairs then I have earned my place with her (ya'll read that correctly,) part of it was fear of dating, and lots of it was complacency.

But you know what's funny? Not once did I think she'd have any trouble without me. Once or twice I might have thought "I don't want her to feel scared and alone if I abandon her NOW of all times." Almost instantly I would say to myself "She'd find another sucker no problem." Hearing her say "I love you so much, please don't ever leave me, babe" might have made me feel gooey on the inside, but I always knew she'd manage just fine and it wouldn't take her long. Me on the other hand... .I'll be feeling this one for a while. God knows how long I'll be saying to myself "If only she wasn't borderline." But she was, and I invested precious memories into a damaged person who hurt me. Don't get the sh** twisted, I know damn sure I hurt her too. But I didn't walk away and all I can do now is move forward. Dating site for nons or not.

Anyway, a site like this could work in theory. But only one way to find out if it actually does.

[rj47]

Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives? Quite frankly, I'd love to meet someone that was a BPD's significant other! Sometimes I like to say why did you choose that person instead of me? As a man reading posts by some very loving, caring, considerate women that have been, unfortunately, matched up to an abusive BPD partner, I've got to say that some of the sentiments that I feel coming from these women are just absolutely astonishing and beautiful.

So why is it that we meet up with the wrong people? Do we need a club that caters to loving caring individuals that are honest and looking for the same things in life but somebody else's?

I dunno how we end up with the people we do. My dBPDw of 26-years showed few signs for the first years we were together. I ended up in despair for almost 25-years staying in the marriage thinking I must have been an awful husband and father based on the near constant abuse, criticism and humiliation she was dealing. If there was a PD attribute in her that I was drawn to... .I still have no clue after decades of honest introspection.

I believe that is quite possible for "nons" to make good partners for one another. Life and relationship are too precious to us after the losses from living long term tortured lives.

I've spent more than a year getting know a beautiful woman I met on this forum. Friends first; we encouraged each other for months to make our relationships work. Neither of us were looking for relationship. But, ours changed. After many months when I finally crossed an ocean to meet her there were no secrets. That stranger had the goods and knew everything about me. I was in love before I stepped on the plane. Our shared history, the prices we paid, and the personal consequences makes communication (without fear) a precious necessity. The fear driven behaviors don't leave immediately, but, bit by bit we're chipping away at them as we get to know each other. I cannot imagine that a more beautiful person exists on the planet.

We might fail. We have many challenges in front of us; but, I am beginning to believe we'll make it. If we don't at least we've learned that decent, loving and caring people do exist. There's always hope.

[letmeout]

That is a beautiful story, rj47. With two people being honest and working it out together, there certainly be a happy ending there!  It gives me hope that someday I will meet such a person to share and care with 

[Notwendy]

GK, if I could "like" a post, I would "like" yours. The short version is that we chose these people because we are not emotionally healthy ourselves!

I don't know exactly why we meet the people we are with, but I have read several theories about it.

*We end up with people with whom we continue to work out our own FOO issues

*We meet people who match us emotionally

*We have unhealthy boundaries, and people with healthy boundaries sense that and don't get too close to us, while people who have unhealthy *boundaries don't recognize this and stay ( sort of like a two way sieve)

*We only feel *chemistry* with people who match our dysfunction.

*If we leave a dysfunctional r/s without doing the work on ourselves, then we will unconsiously seek out another similar person to work our issues out with.

*People with similar issues don't always appear to be similar, opposite behaviors can be two sides of the same dysfunction, so looking for the opposite of your partner next time might not guarantee you won't have that issue.


This last one is something my therapist brought up and also something discussed in 12 step co-dependency groups. Aiming for the middle in our behavior. For instance, I grew up with BPD mom. I knew I didn't want to be like her, but I didn't know what to be like. So my model was "not mom" whatever that was. She didn't seem responsible, so I became over responsible, and so on. Mom drank, so I assumed that people who didn't drink were OK. Yes, this seems childish, but this was the child logic I considered when I was a child. One of the issues of living in a dysfunctional family is not knowing what normal is. I knew we weren't normal. I assumed my H and his family was "normal" and he assumed they were too. I didn't recognize they they had issues too, for a long time. I just knew we had problems and since my H blamed me for them, he must be right.

So, what looks like the "opposite" of a BPD- a caring Non, might be just as dysfunctional in a different way.

As to a r/s with someone here. I've been in co-dependency groups for a while now, and seen romances emerge between members. It seems odd to me because that is the last place I would look for a r/s if I were looking ( and I am not ). I just think, that if I were single, I have enough on my plate to deal with before getting involved with someone with similar issues. On the other hand, it might be a good thing to consider someone who is willing to be working on their stuff and not denying it. Regardless, I do believe that any r/s I have- with anyone- and this includes all r/s- friends ,family, romantic, work, can only be as emotionally healthy as I am, and so I am motivated to do the work for myself first and everyone I care about.

Lastly, if we are here, it is possible that we are co-dependent and that goes with the tendency to look outside of ourselves. This includes an "addiction" to other people, like alcohol. Do we "use" a r/s to escape from ourselves? Sure, the "in love" high feels good, but what is healthy love anyway? What looks good to us in a person right now might actually be bad for us, and distract us from the personal work we need to do on ourselves.

[Mike-X]

I idealized her as much as she did me in the beginning. We both love-bombed each other. I was first to say, I love you" as a matter of fact. I craved all of that, my fantasy of happily ever after. I remember asking myself, ":)o I deserve this?" And even when I had moments of feeling like things might be moving too quickly, I thought, "That is just just your anxiety and fear of being loved talking; you love his woman; she loves you; this is the bliss that you have been craving; don't blow this."

I minimized the jealousy that she showed for months, and actually felt a sense of validation after each discussion and argument, thinking I had resolved things and soothed her. Even if I felt it was a temporary soothing, it was a validating victory for me, "I am a good guy working through some tough issues, helping this scared woman who has been hurt by men in her past, and I am making this relationship work for both of us." Even when my phone was blowing up with texts throughout the day and phone calls on the ride in to work were cutting in to work time, even by hours, I thought I was helping sooth her anxiety and being a good boyfriend, and for a months after we moved in together, the calls, texts, and emails would end with both of us saying, "I love you," which we both agreed was important early in the relationship. Even when she quit saying "I love you" and much later said she wanted me to stop, I still felt that we were talking about the issues, which was mostly her jealousy at. In fact, I found it extremely validating when I learned though BPD guides to better manage the rants by validating her feelings.

So I definitely had my issues. In fact, I was the first to rage on her. I carry around enormous guilt for that still. I thought for a while that that triggered all of her jealousy and feelings that I didn't  love her. I apologized so many times for that. Even after she moved out over a year later, I apologized for that. I am truly sorry, and maybe I was thinking that if she could feel the sincerity of the apology we could it would ignite that spark again and we could return to loving each other. Let me add that when she raged on me, I felt like I was looking in a mirror at "angry me", and it was frightening. I was blown away. I felt extremely bad for her. I felt like she unleashed so much hatred. And I felt extremely guilty and shameful for blowing up on her. I made a conscious decision to never lash out at her (or anyone close to me) again.

I came across BPD when I was looking for ways to control my own temper. When I initially brought up BPD, I would talk about my BPD traits, prone to ruminate and even rage when invalidated, some emptiness, and some issues with low self-esteem all mostly limited to interpersonal relationship.

I had learned to control my anger, to switch it off in favor of compassion and love for her. I saw that it was me personalizing things and wrestling with my own esteem issues, and I allowed my issues to affect my view of this loving woman's actions. I fell deeper in love with her for calling me on that and being vulnerable enough to show me how hurt she was. I was and am so thankful to her for that, and I have told her that many times. I actually had thought up until I saw her hurt after that rage episode that it was just a part of escalated arguments and that it was common. I have apologize to many people for my past rage episodes now, including my ex-wife.

[Infared]

First off, I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

Secondly, it's mainly speculation out of a curiosity that I have.

I've spent a lot of time reading here and I realize I'm only addressing what I see on the surface, but it seems that great people usually get hooked up with BPD inflicted individuals. Like I says I'm just addressing what I see on the surface. The questions the statements the descriptions, all that from significant others as well as wives and husbands, or should I say ex-wives and ex-husbands. I fall into the category of X boyfriend significant other etc.

Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives? Quite frankly, I'd love to meet someone that was a BPD's significant other! Sometimes I like to say why did you choose that person instead of me? As a man reading posts by some very loving, caring, considerate women that have been, unfortunately, matched up to an abusive BPD partner, I've got to say that some of the sentiments that I feel coming from these women are just absolutely astonishing and beautiful.

So why is it that we meet up with the wrong people? Do we need a club that caters to loving caring individuals that are honest and looking for the same things in life but somebody else's?

I know dating sites are supposed to do that. So why doesn't somebody come along, and tell me that I'm the man of their dreams, and that they would do anything for me, and look forward to a loving, lasting, lifetime relationship. My making sense here?

I don't think it's fair that a great person gets hooked up with somebody that is just going to abuse the crap out of them and make their life miserable. We could always make more money one way or another, but we can't get the years that we spent with these people back.

Any takers on this crazy theory?

Tom Petty:

"Victim, or a vampire... .It depends on who's around... ."

[raisins3142]

I don't think it's fair that a great person gets hooked up with somebody that is just going to abuse the crap out of them and make their life miserable. We could always make more money one way or another, but we can't get the years that we spent with these people back.

Any takers on this crazy theory?

There is an assumption in all of this that the problems lie solely with the other party... .rarely is that the case.

You are right it is rarely 100%/0%, but I think it is often >90%/<10%.

Very few healthy people actually think that they have 0 part.  But if it is obvious that the majority did not lie with you and much of your unhealth was not reacting correctly to bad things you should not have ever needed to react to in the first place then... .I am comfortable thinking that the other person is mostly responsible for wrecking things.

[love4meNOTu]

When I met my xhwBPD I had just been rejected by a man that I w as in love with. At the time I was very vulnerable to love bombing and crazy protestations of the happily ever after I could have ... .

Two weeks after our wedding when my xhwBPD traits dragged me upstairs by the arm because "he could not sleep without me beside him" I told myself that something was very wrong.

I was terribly afraid to admit that I made a tremendous mistake. If I wouldn't have been so embarrassed about that I might have left him the first time he raged at me. And that was that night when I had insomnia and was downstairs surfing the internet.

My punishment for doing so was being dragged upstairs to bed by my arm.

I wish I would have left him that very night instead of a year later.

[HappyNihilist]

DyingLove, I definitely believe there are a lot of beautiful, amazing people on these boards, and many more out there who have been through similar things.

But, like LnL said, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would be the healthiest partners.

Like Notwendy, I can see potential negatives and positives--

I just think, that if I were single, I have enough on my plate to deal with before getting involved with someone with similar issues. On the other hand, it might be a good thing to consider someone who is willing to be working on their stuff and not denying it.

In the end, like so much of life, I guess it boils down to personal choice.

Regardless, I do believe that any r/s I have- with anyone- and this includes all r/s- friends ,family, romantic, work, can only be as emotionally healthy as I am, and so I am motivated to do the work for myself first and everyone I care about.

^This.

I don't want to be snarky... .but there is more than one way of looking at this... .

Would really want a dating pool where your common ground is prior bad judgement to have chosen to be in an abusive relationship with someone who is mentally ill?

[Technique]

Through the relationship I have personally recognised that I possess some narcissitic qualities... It's very easy to point the finger of 'blame' 100% at the feet of the other party.

Perhaps my BPDex was the teacher of a lesson I HAD to learn? All part of life's rich tapestry? I've never been in such a brain draining relationship... However, now I'm aware of my own issues, I'm working on them.

[2014]

This was written by member 2010 and answered many many many questions about the partner-choices i have made in the past. For me; this was THE eye opener i needed:

Magnetic attraction works both ways.  While it's true that there are disordered people in the World, many people don’t allow them an all-access pass.  If those people do and the entry person proves disordered, healthy people remove the all-access pass and turn away and avoid all contact- cut and dry- boundary-wise, like non-stick Teflon. To remain attached to these people *or* to gravitate to them and not turn away should be under investigation.

If it’s your magnetic appeal that brings disordered people your way, then assume that you respond to these people for a reason and they to you. (Otherwise you’d be wearing a Teflon coat and nothing would stick to you as far as attachment goes- you’d be quite safe in your choices of who you let in and who you kick out of your life.)

And it’s all about choices. There must be a reason that you continue to interact with maladaptive personalities (and don't escort them out of your scope of energy.) These reasons are far more important to consider because they are the reasons that are most sinister to your mental well being.

If you are going to claim progression in your life that, over the years, disorderly people are magnetized to you, then there is a mutual attraction that needs investigating. If you find yourself continually attracting and then responding to those that are disordered- something's going on here.  Reasons?

1) Attempts to be heard by a deaf and disordered person are repetitious and compulsive and it’s all about your identity and voice (that’s been disallowed) from childhood.

1a.) “Maladaptive” personalities are basically blind, deaf and unable to foster change.  They cannot hear you!  *Stop trying.* Quit trying to tell them how to think. They cannot hear you. You do not have a gift- you are not a PD “whisperer.” (note: this is a.k.a. repetition compulsion in altruistic cloaking)

2) Perhaps you keep giving these people another chance to prove you’re wrong. Yes, maybe they just need a little more time to understand their disorder. Is this your attempt to be fair and balanced while getting your voice i.e., “needs” heard? (This facilitates your attraction.) Is it possible that you keep returning to this person to get your needs met because you are conditioned from childhood to return to a person who cannot and will not hear you? (a person that disallows your voice based upon their pattern of maladaptive behavior?) If so, you need to stop.

2a.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is only as good as the “do unto you” part. It’s being changed surreptitiously by a cluster B personality into an “eye for an eye” which leaves the whole World blind. (Walk away from your generosity; it’s being manipulated to fulfill the moral misconduct, i.e, “precept” of the disorder.) Sorry about that- but it’s a disorder. Do not disrespect it.  It’s not up to you to determine the outcome of it except for the removal of it as it tempts your own reaction and response.

3) If the purpose of your attraction is to distract you from your own life while complaining about theirs- this needs to be confronted. Denial of your own personal responsibility to avoid these people can keep you focused in blame, never to accomplish your own goals. Meanwhile, you are stuck in neutral on the highway of life while using these people as roadblocks *or* you are allowing them the driver’s seat while complaining that they are driving erratically. This might be a way for you to claim a rocky road, but it’s really not about the road- it’s the passenger and driver, isn’t it?

3a.) You can linger on the side of the rocky road and look under the bonnet of the car, but this isn’t about the road and it isn’t about the vehicle. It’s about the passengers. A paved road waits up ahead and it's yours to travel if you'll just understand why the attraction to giving over the wheel to an insane person (so they can off road into Hell's gulch with you sitting shotgun) exists.

Find the reward you seek when you stay and try to change this person. Do you realize you are allowing a disordered person to determine your fate?  Are you staying just to fight them for control of the wheel? Are you trying to be heard by them?  Let go- but don’t let go of yourself.

Perhaps you’ll hope that the disordered person will determine the road (a.k.a. boundaries) for you. (this is not going to end well.) Disordered people have a disorder. You could call it an agenda. They don’t set boundaries, and they rely on other people to have non-existent boundaries or to let their boundaries down because of reasons unknown.  Now we can re-read #1, #2 or #3 again. What is the excuse for lack of boundaries? (Let’s make them known.)

You lock the door to your house so that burglars won’t come in and steal your possessions, so why is it that you allow someone to steal your piece of mind? (There must be a reason?)  

Did you just leave the door to the house unlocked? Did someone just come in or were they invited in? If they were invited in, what is the reason why they could not be escorted out again? Put on your Teflon coat.  Calling yourself a magnet is just an excuse to avoid responsibility for your own lack of personal boundaries.

From this day forward, you are now going to be an orderly person with boundaries that cannot be crashed. You are going to understand that personality disorders have patterns-and your reaction to those patterns keeps you hooked and you are going to confront your reason(s) for this.

You might want to be heard by a person who cannot hear you. You might think that if you said it better, that they would hear you. Speaking up is important but it’s also important to realize when your voice is NOT HEARD.

Fugeddaboutit! They’re deaf.  If people should prove themselves to be deaf to your voice- they are never, ever, ever going to hear you- EVER.  You deserve better, now put on your Teflon coat and avoid them at all costs.

Here’s a thought- the more you try to be heard by a person that cannot hear you, the more you fail to believe they are deaf and the louder you shout- and try to overcome the disorder. This is what keeps you going back for more as you don’t believe personality disorders are valid reasons to avoid someone.

This is the disordered dance that goes nowhere but down, and someone needs to say- HEY- the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You have every right to cut off the interaction and turn away and avoid all contact after several attempts to be heard. You tried. You gave it your best. Now, let go.

If you did speak your mind about what you would not allow- once or twice or three times, and they kept disappointing you – they gave you proof of the disorder. Could it be that you didn’t want to admit it as such? You placed a line in the sand (an easily erased boundary) that was disallowed by a disordered person and you wanted proof again and again by moving that boundary to accommodate your disbelief.

Something tells me that you want to be kind to people, but are unaware of how unkind it is to yourself. Why allow these people access to hurt you in spite of evidence to the contrary that proves them to be hurtful?

Sooner or later you’ll realize that the current situation is just a replay of old conflicts. You’ll see that the only outcome is to place a final line in the sand (called stability) and ignore all attempts to breach your claim to your own sanity- this permanent line will allow you to stand unmoved from your position and allow you to deal with the anger (against yourself, against others) as well as the residual anger from the original conflict that will arise.  Sadness comes later when you realize that you were unable to resolve the original conflict as well as the reproduction of it in the present day conflict.  All of this was a repetition compulsion of your own making and you’re going to have to deal with the failure of getting your voice heard.* It wasn’t heard.* You must be OK with that.

If you are trying to get your voice heard- begin with LISTENING to yourself. Be alone and listen. You are the best judge for what happened in the past and you are the best rescuer for yourself. Thanks to this current abstract your own pain from childhood is on the surface now. Seek to resolve it. Be aware that *what you need* cannot be found outside of yourself  in any maladaptive personality- the struggle just has unlocked repressed pain that’s been under the surface for too long so you can deal with it.  You’ve tried to be heard. It’s time to let go of outside validation from people that cannot give validation to you because they cannot give validation to themselves.  Allow for change to happen when you don’t seek validation from someone else. BE ALONE. When you turn the attention to yourself- you’ll see the possibilities of change.  You’ll find your Teflon coat.

On a last note: change comes with great sadness.  Especially when it involves your own personality.

It can be very depressing not to blame others. When you find yourself free from the attraction to maladaptive personalities, you also find yourself free from blaming them for your woes. There is no hit of pain from the addictive conflict to keep you preoccupied from addressing yourself. Oh sure, there will be several attempts to transfer blame onto others- you know this is a process- Doctors, the Government, friends, etc. but when those fail, abandonment depression occurs and reality replaces fantasy.( For the first time ever.) You see, all of this was an attempt to recreate your childhood in a sort of reunion fantasy with your parents. The hope was that you would finally be heard and seen but it turned out to be another attempt and failure to be seen and heard by people who could not see and hear you.

Only in reality, with its stark, dismal beginnings, will you see that the road up ahead looks purposeful- lonely, yes, but filled with possibilities for a new start. And there’s no need to be distracted by the disordered. You’ll just turn and look away when you recognize them.  :)on't be afraid of shutting yourself off from people- it's only with time that people prove themselves to be fit and responsible enough to share an attachment. This applies to you as well- so learn to be OK with being alone. It's only when you are OK with yourself that you cannot be manipulated by others.  

[Infared]

This is an incredible repost!  I so identify with what is said here.

I did a lot of work with a T.

I think that I have done most of what is suggested here. Thing is, I have gotten so comfortable with being alone that I do not want to ruin my serenity with a relationship. :-)

Now, I just watch others and then I always say... .um... .no thanks.

[thicker skin]

I think that most relationships have the potential to go wrong if one or the other isn't giving the required elements for satisfaction ie meeting basic needs. We all have them, like most living things. The trick is, to know what they are.

I didn't want to live in fear.

I wanted to be relaxed enough to be myself.

I didn't want to be ridiculed or verbally abused.

Ii didn't want to be physically manhandled.

I didn't want to be manipulated or blackmailed.

I wanted to take care of myself.

I wanted free and easy communication.

I wanted to be loved for my mind, not my physique.

I wanted to be free of drama and emotional trapdoors/blackmail.

Knowing what you do and don't want on some levels are a good guide. I am guilty of making far too many excuses, or accepting them, for very poor behaviors in the past.  Today, after 2 decades with a spoiled manchild, I have no hesitation in saying no to needy or childish tantrums.

Luckily, the man in my life has the same needs as me, primarily because we have both been on the same stomach churning ride for a long time and don't want to go around again... .We'd both like it easy now and each of us are naturally giving sorts, so we give and take in equal measure... .And both appreciate normal, if what we have is normal. Our values match, our goals are the same and we know who we are because we've been open and honest from the start. There's a large part of me that thinks his BPDw gave me a gift that's very easy to please, because she terrorised and demonised him for so long. We know what hurts and have no desire to hurt each other.

Our shared history brought us together, by accident, when neither of us were looking for love. We've both grown as people and I think he's the one for me... .The whats, whys and wheres don't matter, he just is and I'm loving it and him.

[sun seeker]

 

[letmeout]

That post was incredible. I want to read it again tomorrow! 

[Loosestrife]

I idealized her as much as she did me in the beginning. We both love-bombed each other. I was first to say, I love you" as a matter of fact. I craved all of that, my fantasy of happily ever after. I remember asking myself, ":)o I deserve this?" And even when I had moments of feeling like things might be moving too quickly, I thought, "That is just just your anxiety and fear of being loved talking; you love his woman; she loves you; this is the bliss that you have been craving; don't blow this."

I minimized the jealousy that she showed for months, and actually felt a sense of validation after each discussion and argument, thinking I had resolved things and soothed her. Even if I felt it was a temporary soothing, it was a validating victory for me, "I am a good guy working through some tough issues, helping this scared woman who has been hurt by men in her past, and I am making this relationship work for both of us." Even when my phone was blowing up with texts throughout the day and phone calls on the ride in to work were cutting in to work time, even by hours, I thought I was helping sooth her anxiety and being a good boyfriend, and for a months after we moved in together, the calls, texts, and emails would end with both of us saying, "I love you," which we both agreed was important early in the relationship. Even when she quit saying "I love you" and much later said she wanted me to stop, I still felt that we were talking about the issues, which was mostly her jealousy at. In fact, I found it extremely validating when I learned though BPD guides to better manage the rants by validating her feelings.

So I definitely had my issues. In fact, I was the first to rage on her. I carry around enormous guilt for that still. I thought for a while that that triggered all of her jealousy and feelings that I didn't  love her. I apologized so many times for that. Even after she moved out over a year later, I apologized for that. I am truly sorry, and maybe I was thinking that if she could feel the sincerity of the apology we could it would ignite that spark again and we could return to loving each other. Let me add that when she raged on me, I felt like I was looking in a mirror at "angry me", and it was frightening. I was blown away. I felt extremely bad for her. I felt like she unleashed so much hatred. And I felt extremely guilty and shameful for blowing up on her. I made a conscious decision to never lash out at her (or anyone close to me) again.

I came across BPD when I was looking for ways to control my own temper. When I initially brought up BPD, I would talk about my BPD traits, prone to ruminate and even rage when invalidated, some emptiness, and some issues with low self-esteem all mostly limited to interpersonal relationship.

I had learned to control my anger, to switch it off in favor of compassion and love for her. I saw that it was me personalizing things and wrestling with my own esteem issues, and I allowed my issues to affect my view of this loving woman's actions. I fell deeper in love with her for calling me on that and being vulnerable enough to show me how hurt she was. I was and am so thankful to her for that, and I have told her that many times. I actually had thought up until I saw her hurt after that rage episode that it was just a part of escalated arguments and that it was common. I have apologize to many people for my past rage episodes now, including my ex-wife.

Thanks for your honesty and sharing your journey, it sounds like you have come a hell of a way. Well done my friend. 

[enlighten me]

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

[Infared]

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

I can only speak to my experience. I met my BPDx in a seasonal work situation. I worked with her for two "spring" quarters. I saw her actions, how she was living her life... .It was not up to my values.  I got drawn in... .and listened to her words. Words of remorse, words of victimhood... .blah... .blah blah and I was love-bombed incessantly... .I believed her lie, (hell... .I think she did at the time, too). Fast forward 5-years and poof she magically "turned-into" this lying, cheating incredibly abusive sociopath that I never met... .oh... .wait a minute... .I did see that person, years before, plain as day, and I did not like her.  

In my case... .I had all the info I needed to stay away. I believe if I had been healthier that I would have.  I was human, and fell for the youth and beauty and the manipulation.  I now believe that I was not healthy or balanced at that time and that part of me looked past all of the writing on the wall.  I was wary and cautious at first... .but BPD's are expert manipulators and can hide who they know they really are. Still there were red flags there of the self-centeredness to come.

When she "threw the switch", it was brutal. Like nothing I have ever lived through. Nothing.

I can now own that I definitely played a role in my own demise.  I need to see that to move forward.

[downwhim]

I think there are some fabulous people on these boards trying to get healthy after being blindsided. I also think there are some that aren't too healthy. You find this anywhere. AA meetings, church groups, etc... Sick people are out there and good people are too. So to say that this is a pool of people that aren't "right" for a relationship and why would someone want to chose anyone here on these boards, I think is being judgmental.

[Grey Kitty]

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Most of these relationships start out in a fantasy land, and pwBPD do present part of themselves that is either a complete lie, or at best a very incomplete picture. Did your relationships start following this pattern?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

Do you think that you have changed enough that if you met and dated somebody similar they would even be able to con you like that? Do you think you would believe the lie next time?

[BorisAcusio]

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

Borderlines have an emotional maturity arrested at young age. They are not con artists, lacking the capacity to remain plausibly deceptive for any prolonged period of time. It was a mutual fantasy we shared and beleived every single fiber of our being, despite all the clues pointing to another direction. Esentially both parties were replaying their own version of the core trauma.

[enlighten me]

Yet I have no core trauma. Yes I have codependant traits. Yes I like to help others but none of this was pertinant to either of my uBPD relationships. Well at least not in the begining. Yes later in the relationship my codependant/ white knight kept me enmeshed but in the begininf I fell for a lie. My boundaries were healthy. Their masks hadnt slipped.

This lie is what I was attracted to. A like minded person who seemed as selfless as me. A kind and gentle heart.

No matter what issues I may or may not have there is no way I would have entered into a relationship with either of my exs if they hadnt mirrored me. If their true colours weredisplyed I would have run a mile.

[raisins3142]

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

Agreed.  It is potentially misleading to generalize about people with BPD just as it is to generalize about people in relationships with them. 

[raisins3142]

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

Borderlines have an emotional maturity arrested at young age. They are not con artists, lacking the capacity to remain plausibly deceptive for any prolonged period of time. It was a mutual fantasy we shared and beleived every single fiber of our being, despite all the clues pointing to another direction. Esentially both parties were replaying their own version of the core trauma.

It doesn't always play out like that.  It is bothersome when someone else informs you of who you are or how things went down, when they weren't there.

In my case, I had been out of the dating scene for a while, partly by choice.

This attractive woman that had some mutual interests was dropped at my feet by a mutual friend.

My fault was moving too quickly and wanting to believe things were as great as she hoped to portray.

As I saw red flags, I noted them but on balance things were still pretty good.  Once you are somewhat attached, at least I don't dump someone at the first few red flags.  But I got too attached before knowing her well enough to see the red flags.

But I never fooled myself greatly.

After 3 months, I knew things were off.  I broke up with her then.

I missed her and she waged a campaign of rectifying things that had bothered me.

I relented and took her back.  She tried very hard for another 3 months.  But some real deal breakers popped up.

I ended things and was greatly saddened and confused by what I went through.

I came here.

When I was dating more actively and younger (more time to look around), I met a few women that in hindsight were likely BPD or close.  I walked earlier on those.

I'll say this.  I've had many women attracted to me over the years.  Most were not BPD, I think.  Most women I've been attracted to were not BPD, I think.

Yes, I have some issues.  But I was never attracted to the BPD traits in my ex, actually they are gross to me (besides the idealization which I didn't know was part of this package, I just thought she was enamored with me).  As they popped up, I was more and more wary.  Until finally they accrued to the point where I was sure my threshold for staying had been significantly violated, and then I left.  I was never a doormat.

[livednlearned]

No matter what issues I may or may not have there is no way I would have entered into a relationship with either of my exs if they hadnt mirrored me. If their true colours weredisplyed I would have run a mile.

I'm trying to understand what this means, to differentiate this and separate it out from the later demise of your relationship. Are you trying to understand how you could be lied to, or manipulated, or hoodwinked? Or are you trying to defend that you were lied to, manipulated, or hoodwinked, therefore... .?

Just trying to clarify.

[sirius]

There is a book called "High Conflict Couple" about relationships where both people have PDs. One might be narcissistic, the other BPD. Apparently, this is a much more common combination than we might think. Some of these types of "nons" are on these boards, either recognizing that they have traits of the disorder, or in full denial. They figure that if the other person has BPD, then that means they are the non-disordered person.

So the "ex" of someone who is BPD is not necessarily healthy, at least in terms of self-awareness and a secure attachment style with regulated emotions. There are also a lot of people on these boards who are codependent, or call it whatever you want -- they may have avoidant attachment styles, or are in some way deeply hurt by an invalidating family of origin, and the BPD relationship was just one of many unhealthy relationships, although perhaps the most destructive. Many people here also have disordered family members and grew up thinking that abuse and BPD behavior was normal.

People here might be great, but that doesn't mean they would necessarily make wonderful healthy partners.

It's also very easy to seem great on the Internet. My ex has thousands of followers online. They think he's wonderful, may of them are women who wrote me after our divorce to explain how stupid I was to let a good guy get away.

There are people here who stay angry and hurt for years and aren't willing to look at their own dynamic in the relationship, which is the key to healing, imo. They aren't ready to face the hard reality about why they got in the relationship in the first place. For many of us, we got into the relationships because the infatuation and idolization felt fantastic! And then when it went away, instead of registering it as abuse, we did anything we could to try and get things back to what was essentially a fantasy.

It's really painful to be in these relationships, and very painful to end them. But in my experience, it's even more painful to fully recover from them, so I understand why there is a tendency to get stuck. The same reason pwBPD might not want to look at their stuff is the same reason why people here might not want to. It hurts, it's painful, and it takes a lot of courage to do the work.

So true, after my breakup, I came here, had 3 different P and T. Read a lot of books and in the midst of finding out what the whole thing was, I discovered myself to be narcistic and also Avoidance traits, that's how it all make sense now and working very hard towards myself. Its painful, it really is