Are they capable of remorse , introspection etc ?

[Blimblam]

As to your initial question on introspection and remorse.

I was really confused on that for a while. 

I realized my ex is capable of remorse but the introspection question is tricky.  My ex would turn to me often to help her with introspection so I had her ear.  At a later point somone else will have her ear and may unwittingly enable her defence mechenisms to twist reality to suit her new reality formed with whoever it is that has her ear. That or the person who has her ear may just be using her so they don't give a crap.

[Dutched]

I recognize and some sad feelings come into my mind again when I read how pwBPD invalidate / hurt our feelings, by the (seemingly) lack of a genuine reaction.

I rather go back to the OP question of  dobie   ‘are they capable of remorse, introspection, etc?’ 

PwDPB feel intense remorse.

Introspection?

What, generally speaking, to expect from a 4 - 5 yr. old?

Criteria for BPD does not include lack of remorse (NPD is).

The question is about ‘they’, the pwBPD, therefore we again must intellectualize the question in order to understand the inner turmoil of pwBPD.

PwBPD feel emotions more intensely than non’s. Marsha Lineham compared it with touching your skin having 3rd degree burn wounds, how painful that must be.   

When we express our feelings due to something done/caused by your (ex)partner, we expect… at that moment a mature reaction that show genuine remorse, saying sorry, the ability to discuss it.   

However just at that same moment we forgot to whom we speak.

We expected…   but even a birds feather could have caused a trigger of pain on ‘their’ skin, however in that moment we weren’t aware of it (of course not, our emotional world is different).

Although pwBPD are very, very capable to scan / see other peoples emotions, pwBPD have difficulties to understand them as pwBPD themselves have trouble to understand their own emotions.

Back to that moment.

In that moment pwBPD is triggered, coping sets in order to ‘survive’, to overcome their own emotions. What space does it leave to process in the mind of pwBPD to see, recognize, respond to our feelings when one is in survival mode?  None, I believe.

Being in that very painful survival mode pwBPD must first overcome the inner turmoil of intense pain.

Still being in pain a reaction is given… projecting, blaming back, hard unsympathetic words, etc.

Understanding that, isn’t it obvious (sorry, not native, no other word to describe it) that being in pain, having deep shame (a primary reaction) some one tries to deflect?

But the remorse is there, just not accessible, as it provoked triggers

Even in normal daily situations we encounter people with different reactions, other values, etc. But as it is within our range of ‘normal’ we are able to accept, not even wondering the cause of it.

With the (ex)partner, as they are/were so close, we forget to question ourselves.

Even in hindsight (many of us found out about BPD after the r/s was over), don’t forget to ask HOW someone that appears so loving, functional and in control (on the outside, and/or towards others) comes to act so cruel.

Shifting it to us:

Why doesn't the person with this disorder seem incapable recognize my feelings

[Deeno02]

I dont believe mine is capable of anything unless it has to do with her and her needs. Im not sure she's even capable of love in its truest form. Just my opinion from what I experienced.

[hope2727]

I feel like mine was capable of both. He felt great remorse and could be introspective but that would cause him to realize his own bad acts and that would bring on great shame. He couldn't deal with that shame so he would shut down and either flee or project. Such a sad way to live. I hope he finds some peace but I doubt he ever will.  :'(

[jhkbuzz]

I feel like mine was capable of both. He felt great remorse and could be introspective but that would cause him to realize his own bad acts and that would bring on great shame. He couldn't deal with that shame so he would shut down and either flee or project. Such a sad way to live. I hope he finds some peace but I doubt he ever will.  :'(

THAT ^^^^

[Blimblam]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is obviously very true for my exBPDgf. Also for my father. I remember when I was 20 one day. My father sat down and had a talk with me. He was completely lucid. It was jawdropping. I remember saying to him "dad, what's going on, you're awesome today." It was like he was actually conscious of what was going on around him, and other people. 99% of the time, though, he's in some dreamlike state, meandering around without understanding anything that's going on.

My exBPDgf was the same. She had moments of lucidity, which were absolutely amazing to see. Most of the time, she was in some hypnagogic state. It's sad and heartbreaking.

What is so difficult to wrap your head around when you're in the middle of it, is that it will not last.

For a normal person insight and experience is part of a linear process. If someone has a realization and it outspoken about, it changes the premises from then on. That is not the case with pwBPD. This means the "lucidity" will only keep you trapped in the relationship with its promises, but it will not result in any of the changes in behavior you would normally expect.

If I had known that "lucidity" would not last, I would have left my relationship years and years earlier. But could not imagine that the girl I loved would "know" and the next day "un-know". I couldn't imagine a mental illness of that magnitude.

This is actually very interesting. It describes it very well, knowing and unknowing. Her memory worked the same way. One day she remembered things she had done. The next day she didn't.

One time, we watched a movie. There was a very romantic (although odd) scene, which she loved. When we were watching it, she cuddled up with me in the sofa and said "wow, this is so romantic, I love this movie." Three (yes, 3) days later, the song from that scene came on, on TV. I said "hey, it's that song from that scene." She said "what scene?"

So I searched the scene up on youtube, found a clip from the movie we watched the other night, with music and video and everything. Showed it to her and said "this one, the one we watched the other night which you liked so much." She just looked at me and said "what? I've never seen this movie." coldly. It was really creepy.

I don't know your partner, but I have an alternative interpretation of that episode you describe, because I recognize that so well.

You saw a romantic movie together and it made her feel good. You felt good together, and she validated that verbally. Later you made a reference to this movie, and she thought you were trying to pull her strings and "make her feel good" once again. By this she felt manipulated and therefore she just flat out denied having seen the movie so that she didn't have to travel back (emotionally) to the place where she were all cozy with you.

I know it's bizarre, but that is how my wife worked. If we had a good night together a certain restaurant, she wouldn't go there again and she didn't like me talking about that night. Going there again was often just out of the question.

Sometimes we had really great sex too. Normally she was quite inhibited and cold, but sometimes she just let go. Those times she never talked of afterwards, or just claimed to have forgotten about altogether.

My interpretation of this is that they don't want these "good" moments to be remembered or at least not to be "officially" remembered, because they think that they can be held against them. It's like moments when they let the guard down, and they didn't really mean to.

You know it's intersting because my mom has BPD and its like we can sometimes get to points where she kind of has moments of self awareness of some things and can admit to them but it's like she has another part where she has tricked somone into enabling her and she will mention them and burry what me and her had uncovered. It's like she has a bunch of different "selves," attached to how various people interact with her and each of those realities are valid to her and the way her defence mechanisms distorts and twists things is almost perpetual.  She constantly attempts to get me to validate the alter reality she has with her enabler in a bunch of tiny ways over and over and over typically untill I have to end the conversation because it has become too draining.