New Beginnings & Boundaries 4...

[MaroonLiquid]

GK said,

"Maroon, you knew that wasn't going to go well. You knew she was giving you the cold shoulder.

Why did you think it was a good idea to send her a pic like that?"

It was a good picture.  I didn't care what her response was either way.  The last time I was getting the cold shoulder, I sent a pic of the kids and she commented on it.  I didn't see a difference this time.  I'm not angry, just realizing it takes a lot of energy to do what she does and avoid.  No skin off my back.

FF said,

":)o you just do your own taxes... and wait for her to ask... .or do you give her a heads up?  

Turning this over in my head... .

As far as Maroon sending that pic... .there needs to be some way for him to "test the waters... " and see how she is doing.

However... he shouldn't "test"... .when he is not strong and ready for a bad ... or no... .reaction...

Thoughts?"

Definitely talk with my wife because I also have to deal with the IRS which includes my wife as we have a tax debt together.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

FF said,

As far as Maroon sending that pic... .there needs to be some way for him to "test the waters... " and see how she is doing.

I'm thinking that the 'test' is to mostly reach out with neutral/personal business matters.

If she wants to engage emotionally (in either a positive or a negative way!) she will bite on that, and respond accordingly.

If you reach out trying to connect to her, you see the results.

Definitely talk with my wife because I also have to deal with the IRS which includes my wife as we have a tax debt together.

A quick bit of googling found this on the issue (emphasis mine):

3. You're concerned about liability. In exchange for the benefits of filing a joint return, couples take on the joint responsibility for unpaid taxes as well as interest and penalties that result from improperly filed tax returns. Even if you later get divorced, the IRS can still collect against you except in limited circumstances in which you qualify for innocent spouse relief. Filing separately leaves you off the hook for any mistakes you spouse makes.

For spouses considering separation or divorce, filing separately is often consistent with the separation of their finances generally -- even if it doesn't always produce the lowest total tax due.



In addition, if your spouse already has liability in the form of unpaid taxes, loans or other obligations, filing separately can be the only way you can avoid having your refund confiscated by the IRS to pay those obligations. If you file jointly, then your entire refund can go toward paying down those obligations, even if the refund comes from your part of the tax equation rather than from your spouse.

In other words... .the whole point of filing separately for you is exactly the opposite of what you said. If you file separately, you are NOT responsible for any of her tax debt, and she isn't responsible for any of yours. You shouldn't even have to talk to her about taxes, other than telling her that you won't be filing jointly with her this year. (Which will become obvious if she asks you to sign a joint return!)

[MaroonLiquid]

If she wants to engage emotionally (in either a positive or a negative way!) she will bite on that, and respond accordingly.

If you reach out trying to connect to her, you see the results.

Last night my son asked me to ask my wife if she would come to his first game tonight.  I texted her (because he asked me to ask) and asked her if she would come with no response.  This morning, instead of simply answereing me, she is trying to pull me into a fight regarding a tax statement given to me by our church and emailed the Pastor and is basically trying to make me look bad.  It seems she is trying to pick a fight with me to justify her "lack of response" in her own mind because she knows she is letting my son down.  He adores her and she always adored him.  I responded to all on the email and simply said, "Wife, as I have told you several times previously, I have the giving statement." and left it at that.  I won't be pulled in to her crap and won't respond any further on the issue.  She will have to deal with it.  Her issues can be mentally exhausting sometimes.  

3. You're concerned about liability. In exchange for the benefits of filing a joint return, couples take on the joint responsibility for unpaid taxes as well as interest and penalties that result from improperly filed tax returns. Even if you later get divorced, the IRS can still collect against you except in limited circumstances in which you qualify for innocent spouse relief. Filing separately leaves you off the hook for any mistakes you spouse makes.

For spouses considering separation or divorce, filing separately is often consistent with the separation of their finances generally -- even if it doesn't always produce the lowest total tax due.



In addition, if your spouse already has liability in the form of unpaid taxes, loans or other obligations, filing separately can be the only way you can avoid having your refund confiscated by the IRS to pay those obligations. If you file jointly, then your entire refund can go toward paying down those obligations, even if the refund comes from your part of the tax equation rather than from your spouse.

In other words... .the whole point of filing separately for you is exactly the opposite of what you said. If you file separately, you are NOT responsible for any of her tax debt, and she isn't responsible for any of yours. You shouldn't even have to talk to her about taxes, other than telling her that you won't be filing jointly with her this year. (Which will become obvious if she asks you to sign a joint return!)

I get this going forward, but we have a tax debt from previous years.

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife texted me and we got into a discussion about how to split the "tax deduction" and I said "50-50" since we are married, she has three kids to claim and I don't.  She said they are irrelevant since they aren't mine biologically.  I told her it will only be a few hundred dollar break to us and would is not a big deal as I was looking at the deduction online.  She then said, "Well, if it isn't a big deal, then why are you trying to slant things your way?"  Wow... .Projecting much?  I then said, "Ok, 60-40 then since that is the true indication of what our income split is"  She said, " I won't sit here and guess what you make and what the split is.  Send me a pic of your W-2, here's mine."  Then she sent me a pic of her W-2 and told her I would send it later this evening.  She said that woud be fine.  I said ok.  I did not JADE, or argue or fight back, but God pwBPD can be "impossibley unreasonable sometimes.  Nothing about my son's game and I won't chase her about it.  She has to live with the choice of letting him down.  I did my best not to get in the middle of her crap.  Really tired of the push/pull and her letting my children down.  She chooses to let her own children down by not inviting me to their stuff, but I won't stoop down to that level.

[formflier]

 

Why are you guys discussing how to split this up.  Is this to facilitate filing separately?.

I'm a bit lost here...

[KateCat]

Makes sense to me that the kids would be the next battleground for your relationship.

I don't suppose you can come to an understanding with her about definitions and boundaries with regards to her kids during this separation, can you? (For instance, is she OK with you continuing to refer to them as "your" kids? What role does she want you to play as their coach?) Maybe you can ask for some guidance on this issue, either from her or from your therapist.

ADDED: I see formflier's post now, and feel the same sense of confusion in general. The IRS stuff kind of forces the issues, even if you're not ready for such clear definitions.

[formflier]

 

I'm back.

I get it that you have past tax debt... .

You will both have to pay this year (from previous posts)... .so there are no refunds to claim... or for the IRS to take.

So... why discuss "this years" taxes with her? OK.you already have it appears... .so... .wow... we need to be careful moving forward. 

The more discussions you have with her... .the more assumptions she can make... and you can break... .leading to bad things.

I think grey had a simple email proposal... .a while back.  "I'll be doing my own taxes this year." 

Hmmm.  I am most likely still missing something... .

[MaroonLiquid]

I think grey had a simple email proposal... .a while back.  "I'll be doing my own taxes this year."  

We are talking about filing separately.  The deduction we were discussing was a "contribution statement" to our church.  It is ridiculously petty because the break we'll get is only a few hundred dollars, which is why I know this isn't about that, or she hasn't a clue that 25% roughly of the giving is what break we'll get.  I think the standard deductions outweigh the statement by like a grand or so... ..  

My thought on this latest issue is that it is a diversion from the real issue.  She feels bad (shame) that she hasn't responded to my son's request last night that she come to his first baseball game tonight (trying to punish me for the w/d from a couple of weeks ago) and trying to find something, anything to project those bad feelings on to me so that she can not feel bad for ultimately punishing my son who adores her and vice versa.  She has to live with that, not me.  I am not letting her latest issue bother me at all and why I'm not arguing over it.  She tries to keep me out the loop regarding her kids for P/A, but I'm not stooping to her level and won't.  I will give her every opportunity to see their stuff.  If she doesn't, that's on her.  

Makes sense to me that the kids would be the next battleground for your relationship.

I don't suppose you can come to an understanding with her about definitions and boundaries with regards to her kids during this separation, can you? (For instance, is she OK with you continuing to refer to them as "your" kids? What role does she want you to play as their coach?) Maybe you can ask for some guidance on this issue, either from her or from your therapist.

She is fine with me calling them my kids until she dysregulates and then she tries her emasculation/parental alienation techniques because they worked in the past.  What she is especially mad about now is I have stuck to my guns on the w/d for 9 months and haven't backed down.  She keeps trying to pull the lever and see if I'll pay.  I haven't on this issue... .

This is also the weekend we were supposed to celebrate my son's 6th birthday as a family... .This also seems to happen a couple of weeks before I'm supposed to stay with her kids while she is out of town... .It's the weekend of my birthday next month... .

[KateCat]

I'm a bit stuck on the "kids issue," as it seems the kids are starting to suffer.  :'(

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm a bit stuck on the "kids issue," as it seems the kids are starting to suffer.  :'(

I hear ya... .Like I said, it won't be by my actions.  I will give her every opportunity to make the decisions "for the children" and can't make her do the same.  She knows I want to go to all of the children's activities.  I think there is some validity to her being jealous that I see and take care of my children finanially and her father and her ex didn't/don't.  Instead of being grateful that she has a man that wants to be a father to her kids, it's almost like she has to sabotage it to prove to herself that all men are alike.  I accept that she chooses to not inform me so that I miss out (regardless of what disordered thinking/reasoning is that she does it), but I choose the opposite and give her the opportunity to be a part and not have to live with the regret.  Maybe I'm dumb, but to me, that is unconditional love.

[Grey Kitty]

If you don't have enough things to deduct to itemize, and will be taking the standard deduction isntead fo ryourself (Guessing not 'cuz I think you are renting), let her have the whole charitable deduction.

It avoids a fight. It doesn't cost you anything that you would be able to use.

Maybe I don't understand the situation properly.

[Grey Kitty]

Maroon, you are doing the right thing with your kids (and her kids). Please continue to do the right thing--being as involved as your wife will let you, and inviting her to be involved with your kids. Don't take any cues from her bad behavior. Don't go down to her level.

My only suggestion is this--if (when?) she doesn't show up for your son's game, make sure you validate HIS feelings about it. He will be hurt or mad or (whatever) that she blew him off. He might even be mad at you over it, as you couldn't talk any sense into her. It isn't your job, but you can't hold your son to understanding/knowing this. Just validate how he's feeling, whatever happens.

Don't try to make excuses for her. Don't try to explain what she did, or what she didn't do. If you do anything like that, it is invalidating and confusing for your son.

[MaroonLiquid]

Maybe I don't understand the situation properly.

You understand it perfectly.  Thanks.  I went ahead and texted her, told her that she could use it for hers and that it did me no good as the standard deduction was more.  She hasn't responded yet.

Maroon, you are doing the right thing with your kids (and her kids). Please continue to do the right thing--being as involved as your wife will let you, and inviting her to be involved with your kids. Don't take any cues from her bad behavior. Don't go down to her level.

I refuse to.  The kids are too important to me, love them too much and want what's best for them.

My only suggestion is this--if (when?) she doesn't show up for your son's game, make sure you validate HIS feelings about it. He will be hurt or mad or (whatever) that she blew him off. He might even be mad at you over it, as you couldn't talk any sense into her. It isn't your job, but you can't hold your son to understanding/knowing this. Just validate how he's feeling, whatever happens.

Don't try to make excuses for her. Don't try to explain what she did, or what she didn't do. If you do anything like that, it is invalidating and confusing for your son.

I told him last night that I wasn't sure if she had plans or not but that I would ask.  The game was canceled today due to weather, so it is a non issue now.  I usually tell him or the kids that she already had other plans or that our plans couldn't mesh.  I don't like them to know too much drama.  I have told my older girls a little more obviously because they are at an age that they aren't stupid.  They all have seen her rage.  I have told the girls that she is dealing with some emotional trauma that affects some of her actions and to not take it personally.

[OffRoad]

Maybe I don't understand the situation properly.

You understand it perfectly.  Thanks.  I went ahead and texted her, told her that she could use it for hers and that it did me no good as the standard deduction was more.  She hasn't responded yet.

Ouch! That one's going to make her squirm. She got what she wanted and it didn't cost you anything.

[MaroonLiquid]

Maybe I don't understand the situation properly.

You understand it perfectly.  Thanks.  I went ahead and texted her, told her that she could use it for hers and that it did me no good as the standard deduction was more.  She hasn't responded yet.

Ouch! That one's going to make her squirm. She got what she wanted and it didn't cost you anything.

Thanks Offroad!  I needed the laugh this afternoon and realize that's why she probably hasn't responded.  Her crap didn't work.  .  Was feeling kind of down due to her pulling this.  I'll get over it!  Again, needed the laugh.

[MaroonLiquid]

Well, I just got divorce papers in the mail.  Not totally shocked.  Time to figure out my next move... .

[KateCat]

Maroon, whatever happens, you are one helluva great guy. I'm hoping those kids can stay in your life.

[MaroonLiquid]

Maroon, whatever happens, you are one helluva great guy. I'm hoping those kids can stay in your life.

Thanks.  I'm still hoping our marriage can work.  Does that make me pathetic?

[KateCat]

Oh no, not at all! This could be the event that turns things around.

[MaroonLiquid]

Oh no, not at all! This could be the event that turns things around.

I don't see how that's possible.  Not saying it's not.  But man... .

[KateCat]

Ha, I was just logging on to explain myself when you posted.

It makes no ordinary sense, for sure. But relationships like the one you've been in these past months often need a "reality check" if they are ever to get back on course.

I've read more than one story on the Legal board, in which a wife filed unwarranted charges of domestic abuse against her husband, only to be shocked when he subsequently defended himself in criminal court and turned the criminal complaint into a divorce action. Why? Because she felt that her complaint would help him see that he needed to pay more attention to her, and she was not aware of other consequences that would ensue. Her filing was an attempt to regain control in the relationship.

Your wife doesn't yet feel the effects of what a true separation from you would mean. If she goes through with this court action, her world will change quickly, and not for the better. If anything will wake her up to reality (and maybe nothing will), this will be it.

Hasn't she already pushed her mother away? If so, her world is getting really small.

[MaroonLiquid]

Ha, I was just logging on to explain myself when you posted.

It makes no ordinary sense, for sure. But relationships like the one you've been in these past months often need a "reality check" if they are ever to get back on course.

I've read more than one story on the Legal board, in which a wife filed unwarranted charges of domestic abuse against her husband, only to be shocked when he subsequently defended himself in criminal court and turned the criminal complaint into a divorce action. Why? Because she felt that her complaint would help him see that he needed to pay more attention to her, and she was not aware of other consequences that would ensue. Her filing was an attempt to regain control in the relationship.

Your wife doesn't yet feel the effects of what a true separation from you would mean. If she goes through with this court action, her world will change quickly, and not for the better. If anything will wake her up to reality (and maybe nothing will), this will be it.

Hasn't she already pushed her mother away? If so, her world is getting really small.

Yep she has.  And doesn't talk to her sister much either... .

[123Phoebe]

Aw Maroon, I'm so sorry.  Blech, is about the only thing coming for this action she took.  You sound to be taking it really well.

[MaroonLiquid]

Aw Maroon, I'm so sorry.  Blech, is about the only thing coming for this action she took.  You sound to be taking it really well.

Thanks Pheebs.  I'm taking it alright.  Im not totally shocked.  I called her and left a message asking if she had a minute to talk, not mentioning I got the papers and she texted back saying she was driving and asked what I needed.  I didn't respond as I don't know what or if I should say.  A part of me thinks what Kate is saying is true and another part doesn't know what to think. 

[123Phoebe]

Aw Maroon, I'm so sorry.  Blech, is about the only thing coming for this action she took.  You sound to be taking it really well.

A part of me thinks what Kate is saying is true and another part doesn't know what to think. 

I'd probably be thinking, "Whoa, huh... .what the... ."

And then my mind would be going a hundred miles an hour... .

Do I want to continue in a relationship with someone who blows off my kid?  Then the next day I'm served with divorce papers?  Omg wow wow!

New beginnings & boundaries is where it's at!

The old way was bull.

[KateCat]

New beginnings & boundaries is where it's at!

The old way was bull.

Yeah, I think you can only go forward now. That's really the only thing that is "good" about this.  :'(

[formflier]

I called her and left a message asking if she had a minute to talk, not mentioning I got the papers and she texted back saying she was driving and asked what I needed. 

Is calling her now a good idea? 

You need a plan.  To answer another question... .you are not pathetic.  If you want to try to save the r/s... .tell you L that and see how that affects the strategy... if at all.

Did the papers have a delivery receipt or a way that there is confirmation that you got the papers?

[formflier]

 

Maroon,

I was in a hurry to get those questions up... .now... .wanted to slow down just a sec and tell you how much I feel for you.

I'll be praying for you especially tonight.

 

You have worked your tail off... .the Maroon that I know now versus the one I got to know a long time ago is a totally different guy. 

You are making emotionally healthy choices for you... .and for your kids.  And putting your heart into it... .all in!

IMO... .can you do something special for you tomorrow... .?  How can you connect with your local support system?

Hang in there Maroon!

[Grey Kitty]

  I'm so sorry it is coming to this.

Have you posted on the legal board yet? From what I know, your divorce should be pretty simple from a legal point of view... .'tho you will get much better advice from people who have more experience with it than I do.

You could attempt to get some visitation rights with her kids in court, but it would be an uphill battle.

 GK

[MaroonLiquid]

Maroon,

I was in a hurry to get those questions up... .now... .wanted to slow down just a sec and tell you how much I feel for you.

I'll be praying for you especially tonight.

 

You have worked your tail off... .the Maroon that I know now versus the one I got to know a long time ago is a totally different guy.  

You are making emotionally healthy choices for you... .and for your kids.  And putting your heart into it... .all in!

IMO... .can you do something special for you tomorrow... .?  How can you connect with your local support system?

Hang in there Maroon!

Thanks for .  :)oing something for myself tomorrow... .Hmmmm... .I have softball practice so it will be hard.  The other thing is, I have to see my daughter and try and act like everything is ok.  Frankly, I'm feeling down.  My friend who has been awesome in all this was very supportive and prayed with me.  My Pastor has been supportive.  My biological mother is happy that "the b*itch will be out of my life".  Really beginning to not like my bio mom.  She doesn't have one sympathetic/empathetic bone in her body.    I can't believe I'm here.  I really thought it was never going to get to this place.  i really thought it was getting better.  I feel like a failure at the moment.  A part of me wants to resort to my old self and call her and ask if paying the washer and dryer will stop this/fix it and ask why she's doing this (I won't).  That would be "paying out" based on the lever being pulled.  A part of me wants to go to sleep for four days.  I feel like a fool.  I do have peace and believe this isn't the end.  Can't tell if part of that's denial or wishful thing.  I really love my wife unconditionally and just feel like this is more push/pull.  Sorry.  Just putting all my thoughts down.  

 I'm so sorry it is coming to this.

Have you posted on the legal board yet? From what I know, your divorce should be pretty simple from a legal point of view... .'tho you will get much better advice from people who have more experience with it than I do.

You could attempt to get some visitation rights with her kids in court, but it would be an uphill battle.

 GK

 I'm so sorry it is coming to this.

Have you posted on the legal board yet? From what I know, your divorce should be pretty simple from a legal point of view... .'tho you will get much better advice from people who have more experience with it than I do.

You could attempt to get some visitation rights with her kids in court, but it would be an uphill battle.

 GK

Haven't posted on the legal board, but will.