BPD clues hiding in plain sight

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Unfortunately I never knew about BPD until about 3 - 4 months after my uBPDexgf left seemingly out of the blue. I had no way of knowing, at the time, that some of her actions were actually clues to a disordered mind I wasn't aware of and she hid quite well. I certainly would never have characterized her mind as being in disarray as she took care of her children with no neglect toward them, held down her job and attended it most every day (unless her kids were sick), and was seemingly a happy person who was prone to outbursts of anger if she was frustrated about something (or someone) or she was PMSing. We were together 9.5 years and knew one another for 10.

Lately I have been trying to see if there were obvious things that I missed or let slide because of things going on in her life at the time. Mostly I have been thinking abut the disarrayed mind aspect as that is something I had no inkling of and I believe she hid very well. In other words, whatever it was that was  causing her internal strife be it depression, fear, anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, I didn't take seriously as I either didn't realize they challenged her frequently or her actions and living our daily life took the focus off those feelings and I didn't dwell on them anymore.

Early on I was aware that she was a fearful person. I believed, in error retrospectively, that with time when she saw I was a constant, that I wasn't using her, that I could be trusted, that she and her kids were my top priority, those things would put her mind at ease. I now understand that no amount of love or easing on my part was going to change what she ultimately did at the end of our relationship.

The mind clutter (and possibly chatter) that BPD's seem to have, I totally missed in my ex. I understand now that she was giving me clues, I just didn't see them for what they were.

For instance, her house was messy. And I don't mean cluttered with things scattered and could be picked up in a few minutes. I mean messy. When we were together I would go through and totally clean the house up. Filthy bathrooms, food crumbs throughout the house, after she got cats in the later years, cat litter kicked around and not cleaned up then. I won't even tell you where it was. But honestly her home had gotten so unclean (being nice) that I'd always find us someplace else to go so we wouldn't have to sleep there. It actually was worse after her kids got older than when they were young. But it wasn't their stuff laying around. It was just out and out filth. And she'd clean up about once a month. I even offered to get her a full time house keeper, but she wouldn't do it. I think now that messiness was what was playing in her head and manifesting with the disarrayed life.

Another thing was her sleep issues and her talking. I excused her sleep issues with just the anxieties of having young kids, having a career, mother issues, if you will. I would tell her to call me if she couldn't sleep and she did for several years to just talk. Not about anything, but to just relax her so she could go back to sleep. In later years she would send me late night emails that she had been up and couldn't sleep. I understand now BPDs need to be soothed, not necessarily fixed. I rarely offered a "fix." I just listened. And as someone pointed out on another board here, what I call her being a "big talker" was really asymptomatic of her possible BPD. It was another manifestation of the noise and anxieties going on in her head. And the talking was just a way to release those anxieties.

Of course there are other things that happened late in our relationship (after the 6.5 year mark) which are now more obvious and make me realize she possibly does have this emotional disorder. But it's the early things I missed that may have been clues that I excused away. I will say this, I think the way I treated her, and I don't mean by doing things for her and giving her stuff, may have allowed us to last longer than some other relationships. I honestly think she thought she could get past her emotional turmoil and we could stay together. But I also believe that something last year seriously triggered her, and while I have my suspicions of what they may have been, I have no way of knowing for sure. I also will admit to wondering if my replacement is anything but a warm body.

And let me state also, that these things may not mean anything other than she was a lousy housekeeper, couldn't sleep, and talked a lot. But I think taken as a whole plus many other things, they do show there was some sort of emotional disarray going on with her.

Has anyone else retrospectively seen things "hiding in plain sight" that made them realize a uBPD ex may have been more disordered than you realized? Just curious.

[ShadowIntheNight]

Unfortunately I never knew about BPD until about 3 - 4 months after my uBPDexgf left seemingly out of the blue. I had no way of knowing, at the time, that some of her actions were actually clues to a disordered mind I wasn't aware of and she hid quite well. I certainly would never have characterized her mind as being in disarray as she took care of her children with no neglect toward them, held down her job and attended it most every day (unless her kids were sick), and was seemingly a happy person who was prone to outbursts of anger if she was frustrated about something (or someone) or she was PMSing. We were together 9.5 years and knew one another for 10.

Lately I have been trying to see if there were obvious things that I missed or let slide because of things going on in her life at the time. Mostly I have been thinking abut the disarrayed mind aspect as that is something I had no inkling of and I believe she hid very well. In other words, whatever it was that was  causing her internal strife be it depression, fear, anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, I didn't take seriously as I either didn't realize they challenged her frequently or her actions and living our daily life took the focus off those feelings and I didn't dwell on them anymore.

Early on I was aware that she was a fearful person. I believed, in error retrospectively, that with time when she saw I was a constant, that I wasn't using her, that I could be trusted, that she and her kids were my top priority, those things would put her mind at ease. I now understand that no amount of love or easing on my part was going to change what she ultimately did at the end of our relationship.

The mind clutter (and possibly chatter) that BPD's seem to have, I totally missed in my ex. I understand now that she was giving me clues, I just didn't see them for what they were.

For instance, her house was messy. And I don't mean cluttered with things scattered and could be picked up in a few minutes. I mean messy. When we were together I would go through and totally clean the house up. Filthy bathrooms, food crumbs throughout the house, after she got cats in the later years, cat litter kicked around and not cleaned up then. I won't even tell you where it was. But honestly her home had gotten so unclean (being nice) that I'd always find us someplace else to go so we wouldn't have to sleep there. It actually was worse after her kids got older than when they were young. But it wasn't their stuff laying around. It was just out and out filth. And she'd clean up about once a month. I even offered to get her a full time house keeper, but she wouldn't do it. I think now that messiness was what was playing in her head and manifesting with the disarrayed life.

Another thing was her sleep issues and her talking. I excused her sleep issues with just the anxieties of having young kids, having a career, mother issues, if you will. I would tell her to call me if she couldn't sleep and she did for several years to just talk. Not about anything, but to just relax her so she could go back to sleep. In later years she would send me late night emails that she had been up and couldn't sleep. I understand now BPDs need to be soothed, not necessarily fixed. I rarely offered a "fix." I just listened. And as someone pointed out on another board here, what I call her being a "big talker" was really asymptomatic of her possible BPD. It was another manifestation of the noise and anxieties going on in her head. And the talking was just a way to release those anxieties.

Of course there are other things that happened late in our relationship (after the 6.5 year mark) which are now more obvious and make me realize she possibly does have this emotional disorder. But it's the early things I missed that may have been clues that I excused away. I will say this, I think the way I treated her, and I don't mean by doing things for her and giving her stuff, may have allowed us to last longer than some other relationships. I honestly think she thought she could get past her emotional turmoil and we could stay together. But I also believe that something last year seriously triggered her, and while I have my suspicions of what they may have been, I have no way of knowing for sure. I also will admit to wondering if my replacement is anything but a warm body.

And let me state also, that these things may not mean anything other than she was a lousy housekeeper, couldn't sleep, and talked a lot. But I think taken as a whole plus many other things, they do show there was some sort of emotional disarray going on with her.

Has anyone else retrospectively seen things "hiding in plain sight" that made them realize a uBPD ex may have been more disordered than you realized? Just curious.

[Invictus01]

Yeah, here is my list

1. She had a horrible relationship with her mother because her mother "walked out of her life" and only decided to come back in her life a couple of years ago. In fact, the hatred run so deep, she changed her last name so that she isn't reminded of her mother every day.

2. I met her mother - she is a narc and a half. A big part of personality disorders is genetic.

3. She flat out told me that she tends to "lose interest" in relationships after a year or so.

4. Her brother out of nowhere had a mental breakdown a few years ago and was diagnosed with a bipolar disorder - a common misdiagnosis for a personality disorder

5. She talked about herself - a lot or more like constantly. To the point where my friends after a while started asking me if I was finding it kinda weird how much she talked about herself. All the while I could sense she had a pretty low self esteem. In fact, I flat out told my buddy, and I quote, "Her mother did a number on her self esteem"

6. She didn't appear to have too many friends... .or any at all. I met two of them, I suspect one of them ended up being my replacement. Lucky guy!

7. Pity play. She appeared to have a permanent black cloud over her head and I had to console her almost on daily basis about things.

8. Alcohol issues. Now, don't get me wrong, I am no stranger to it myself, but I wondered how a 5'4 110 lbs girlie can pretty much out drink a 6'0 190 lbs guy like myself. When she saw a bar in my apartment, she told me "I can never have that in my place, I'd be always drunk".

I am sure I am missing a bunch. After reading this list, you'd think I dealt with a completely dysfunctional person. Nope, I dealt with a woman in her mid 20s who was running a multi million dollar location of a national chain restaurant and was the youngest general manager in the nation among 80+ locations by about 10 years.

[Invictus01]

Yeah, here is my list

1. She had a horrible relationship with her mother because her mother "walked out of her life" and only decided to come back in her life a couple of years ago. In fact, the hatred run so deep, she changed her last name so that she isn't reminded of her mother every day.

2. I met her mother - she is a narc and a half. A big part of personality disorders is genetic.

3. She flat out told me that she tends to "lose interest" in relationships after a year or so.

4. Her brother out of nowhere had a mental breakdown a few years ago and was diagnosed with a bipolar disorder - a common misdiagnosis for a personality disorder

5. She talked about herself - a lot or more like constantly. To the point where my friends after a while started asking me if I was finding it kinda weird how much she talked about herself. All the while I could sense she had a pretty low self esteem. In fact, I flat out told my buddy, and I quote, "Her mother did a number on her self esteem"

6. She didn't appear to have too many friends... .or any at all. I met two of them, I suspect one of them ended up being my replacement. Lucky guy!

7. Pity play. She appeared to have a permanent black cloud over her head and I had to console her almost on daily basis about things.

8. Alcohol issues. Now, don't get me wrong, I am no stranger to it myself, but I wondered how a 5'4 110 lbs girlie can pretty much out drink a 6'0 190 lbs guy like myself. When she saw a bar in my apartment, she told me "I can never have that in my place, I'd be always drunk".

9. She used to be a college cheerleader. When I asked her how she ended up doing that she told me "I always hated to be a part of the crowd. I always wanted to be in front of the crowd"

I am sure I am missing a bunch. After reading this list, you'd think I dealt with a completely dysfunctional person. Nope, I dealt with a woman in her mid 20s who was running a multi million dollar location of a national chain restaurant and was the youngest general manager in the nation among 80+ locations by about 10 years.

[Confused?]

My ex showed me everything there was to show me about BPD. She is diagnosed so I knew all about it. She wrote me a letter once telling me what it feels like to have BPD. It was the only thing I saved that she wrote me after she left. The thing that stuck out to me most was a few sentences about pushing people away. In it she says that she often would push people away because she either doesn't want to be hurt by them (abandoned) or doesn't want to hurt them. When I first read this I didn't think much of it because we were still together. Now after reading it again it is something that I should have looked at more seriously.

[LimboFL]

I wish I had had it that easy... .not the ending of course, although she found a replacement.

The crazy showed up almost immediately, including impatience, a heavy coke habit, the hour long recount of past lovers. The "I am going to marry you" a week in. I mean I had no idea about BPD, so just thought that she was a little cookie, which I tend to like. Then it was a massive break up, three months in blaming me for giving her an STD. 3 months later we get back together, she is kicked out of her apartment, she moves in with me with a dog, that I wasn't supposed to have. Late nights out without me, adopting another dog online. Then came rages, anger insults "just don't talk, just sit there and look pretty" I mean it was non stop, but I took it all in stride. I am a confident and good looking guy, I didn't sweat it... .even the rages.

I could go on and on. But there were the beautiful times too, the kindness and gentility, i.e. the wounded child, the "you are just going to kick me to the curb one day like everyone else". She actually mellowed later but as soon as she drank, which was often, the crazy would come out again. She will never stop drinking so the replacement is soon going to get his share. We would be in a bar and I would go to the bathroom and return and she was gone. I would text and call, then 15 minutes later, a text saying that she is the restaurant 2 blocks down.

It was insane. Four years. I still love her deeply and miss the beautiful parts but am so happy to be out.

It's clear that, as I have always said they are all different because they are humans, like us, with different experiences and variances in behavior. 

[Confused?]

The problem with knowing was what I knew. It wasn't like she told me she was BPD and I looked online and all that came up was stories of cheating abuse and lies and manipulations. I tried to understand her. I read about how it feels to have BPD. I read articles on how to deal with someone with BPD. It wasn't until she started acting different that I found this site. The problem is that we don't really know the full extent of anything until we see the end. Either by them leaving or by us leaving because it has gotten too bad. A lot of people say if they knew that their ex was BPD that it would have been different. They wouldn't have gotten involved or would have left sooner. Take it from me someone who knew all along. My ex was a person just like everyone else. She deserves love and caring. Bpd or not everyone does. I take blame in a lot of things that went wrong. But if she walked around the rest of her life telling people she met that she has BPD and everyone has the same reaction as us then she would be alone her whole life. Of course we all say we don't want a BPD in our life and this and that but we have to remember everyone is different. Stories are similar but also different.

[gettingbuy]

Looking back, my clues were obvious as well, now that I know what BPD is. As they always say, hindsight is 20/20:

1. The very first night we met, she came over and stayed the night. No sex, she just wanted me to hold her.

2. When she lived with me she would always wake me up in the middle of the night - "baby will you hold me." She always... .always wanted hugs. I am fine with that, but now I know it's because of abandonment issues.

3. She blamed her jealousy issues (due to being cheated on) on her past constantly and always thought changing me would allow her to get over them. Changing me meant allowing her to snoop in my phone, tell her who I'm texting anytime I'm texting anyone, accusing me of cheating when I talked to female friends about our relationship when we were broken up, her being able to talk to exes, but if I did she would snap. She would have gone farther if this continued.

4. Anytime she thought I didn't show her I cared enough (apparently I wasn't showing her the love language she needed) she would break up with me. This happened probably 5 times in 6 months. This turned into her weapon to break my boundaries.

5. I couldn't be the same 5000 seat arena with someone I had slept with years prior, and talked to recently.

6. She had very rebellious teenage years including running away, vandalism, a criminal record. Also was into drugs in early adulthood and would use them whenever she would break up with me as her release.

7. Any time we would argue about something and I defused the situation, she would just move onto the next thing and emotionally abuse me. Times we had together that she acknowledged as perfect and amazing in the past, all of a sudden weren't good enough.

8. She would fight with her friends... .her friends! And have on/off friendships with them spanning months at a time.

9. "I've been so blinded by fear that I have tried to throw this relationship away so many times"  "I was so wrapped up in my own insecurities I was going insane in my head. I was so afraid of being hurt by you because of my past."


Ugh... .I could go on.

[ThanksForPlaying]

We would be in a bar and I would go to the bathroom and return and she was gone. I would text and call, then 15 minutes later, a text saying that she is the restaurant 2 blocks down.

This happened 3 or 4 times to me over a year long relationship.  Once was extremely dangerous and I found her incoherent outside of our hotel with a guy holding onto her and seemed like she had been drugged.  She had only been out of my sight for 15 minutes and apparently let this guy buy her one drink.  She's an incredibly beautiful girl, so she would have no problem finding someone to buy her a drink.  I rescued her of course, but she had completely put herself in that situation.  I rationalized it as "we're in a bad part of town" which was true, but also a major red flag.  That was the worst - a couple other times were just short 'disappearances' like you described.  Very strange, and I didn't know other BPDs had this same issue until I read your post.

[Spartacus]

My list would be:-

Jumping out her skin theatrically at our first meeting after a waiter dropped a tray nearby but there was a delay in her reaction like it was an afterthought.

Extreme black and white painting of her parents  on a rapid cycle. Books like 'Toxic Parents and How to handle them' by her bedside table.

Dysfunctional relationship with her brother and his children. He was excommunicated unless he agreed to therapy and own the damage he had done to her in early childhood.

Obviously, in hind sight, manipulating friends, parents, me to 'work for her' performing constant menial tasks and favours never returned/reciprocated. A classic circle of enablers.

Claimed to be able to see ghosts, visions and read minds.

All previous relationships were abusive towards her and she believed that she had been abused as a child.

Track record at work was of repeatedly leaving after a couple of years due to bullying and mistreatment. She was in a constant state of victimhood.

Rapid mood swings always blamed on others, then me blaming myself for her problems became the issue! Lots of projections which did not make sense or were proportional to the trigger.


Raging if I was a minute late to meet her but fine for her to be an hour late for me or said the wrong thing. Always escalating to threatening to end the relationship. Eggshells!

Constant texting, sometimes raging over text, expecting immediate reply but then going silent for long periods.

I'm not sure if this is one but a chronic twitching eye and raising her eyebrows seemingly involuntarily when I was talking to her.

]

Playing on men's sports teams as the women didn't let her. I don't know what happened there but I can guess.

Raging if she lost a game of anything, cards/squash/ charades and then accusing others, usually me, of being too competitive.

Crazy, aggressive driving at 100mph.

Orchestrating chaos for all around her in the name of calm and peace, whilst she supposedly stayed home and meditated.


Awgh man the list goes on. I can't believe I put up with it for so long thinking that her behavior would change, that I could help her and believing that she was ok and her feelings really were everyone else's fault!

Free now. Feels so good. NC works but still dealing with the guilt of my leaving and my codependent habits. Every day I grow stronger.

[ThanksForPlaying]

still dealing with the guilt of my leaving and my codependent habits. Every day I grow stronger.

Well said ... .I feel bad for leaving and I still want someone I can "help" ... .taking it day by day and trying to work on my own codependency

[LimboFL]

Confused, if you have read any of my other posts then you will know that I felt just like you. I still love her deeply and I would have stuck it out for a lot longer if she hadn't broken the lies and infidelity boundaries. I figured the BPD out after the three month mark, when she broke up with me. Plus I think I kind of knew before. It was all too obvious, especially with her backing things up with the family difficulties and one horror that she explained to me. It isn't hard to put two and two together. It didn't matter, I was going to stick it out and be there for her because I fell in love with her, not the love bombing or the idealization but the person I got to see underneath all of that.

She was even too bossy in bed, but it didn't matter. I loved her and, while I love l'amour as much as the next person, at 47 my priorities have morphed slightly. As long as their was amour, then my not getting exactly what I wanted was a fair trade for having someone that I deeply loved.

I would have given anything and I mean anything for her not to have crossed those boundaries. Maybe it was time, I don't know, but when I recount the hardships it is done with the understanding that I stayed. Those signs showed up so early and I stayed with her for four years... .in other words, I am in your camp.

[apollotech]

Shadow,

There was one thing that my BPDexgf did throughout our relationship that I found to be very odd. I do think it's BPD related/specific, and it was creepy (for lack of a better term). She would chop me up and become infatuated with/love certain parts of me. It started with my voice. Everytime that we'd talk she would compliment me over and over about my voice and express how much she loved my voice. (This was a BPD issue as I later figured out that my voice soothed her. I was calming a child the whole time.) The "voice love" finally drove me to ask her in a jokingly way: You do realize that this voice is attached to a person, right? (When I asked this question I had no idea that they readily objectify people.)

She then moved to my intelligence. Then my education. Then my eyes. Then my work. Then my hands. Etc. If I talked about whatever specific thing/attribute/characteristic/trait/etc. that she was infatuated with at that time, it completely mesmerized her. It was like a child seeing Santa Claus. This woman very seldom ever told me that she loved "me". She had no problem expressing her love for various parts of me. It made me very uncomfortable being chopped up like that rather than being seen/accepted/loved as a whole person.

She also had a great deal of trouble rectifying various skill sets of mine with one another. For example, I restore antique vehicles as a hobby, and my work is in research and analysis---she couldn't bring those things together within me. It was as if she couldn't comprehend that I could be a mechanic and an analyst. (I now suspect that this was due to her BPD polorized thinking. She never saw people as multidimensional/dynamic beings. She saw us, people, as one dimensional/static beings. )

[anxiety5]

Yeah, here is my list

1. She had a horrible relationship with her mother because her mother "walked out of her life" and only decided to come back in her life a couple of years ago. In fact, the hatred run so deep, she changed her last name so that she isn't reminded of her mother every day.

2. I met her mother - she is a narc and a half. A big part of personality disorders is genetic.

3. She flat out told me that she tends to "lose interest" in relationships after a year or so.

4. Her brother out of nowhere had a mental breakdown a few years ago and was diagnosed with a bipolar disorder - a common misdiagnosis for a personality disorder

5. She talked about herself - a lot or more like constantly. To the point where my friends after a while started asking me if I was finding it kinda weird how much she talked about herself. All the while I could sense she had a pretty low self esteem. In fact, I flat out told my buddy, and I quote, "Her mother did a number on her self esteem"

6. She didn't appear to have too many friends... .or any at all. I met two of them, I suspect one of them ended up being my replacement. Lucky guy!

7. Pity play. She appeared to have a permanent black cloud over her head and I had to console her almost on daily basis about things.

8. Alcohol issues. Now, don't get me wrong, I am no stranger to it myself, but I wondered how a 5'4 110 lbs girlie can pretty much out drink a 6'0 190 lbs guy like myself. When she saw a bar in my apartment, she told me "I can never have that in my place, I'd be always drunk".

9. She used to be a college cheerleader. When I asked her how she ended up doing that she told me "I always hated to be a part of the crowd. I always wanted to be in front of the crowd"

I am sure I am missing a bunch. After reading this list, you'd think I dealt with a completely dysfunctional person. Nope, I dealt with a woman in her mid 20s who was running a multi million dollar location of a national chain restaurant and was the youngest general manager in the nation among 80+ locations by about 10 years.

My list:

By the way I had no idea what this condition was prior to knowing her.

-She cried on my couch the 2nd time we hung out (she invited herself over) when I said I was going to leave and go run errands I had planned on running.

-She invited me on trip out of state after knowing her 3 weeks.

-She would manipulate me into pleasing her. She would complain about her ex, and say, he never wanted to do this or that and me being the idiot obviously I would go do it.

-She love bombed me and talked rings and marriage 3 weeks in.

-I've always been in decent shape in my adult life and when I was literally at my worst I have ever felt I looked and not working out she told me I had the body of a greek god. I literally started laughing out loud.

-The moment I let my guard down and invested myself she started running hot/cold.

-I got an odd sense on some mornings after staying with her I wasn't "allowed" to leave.

-She cheated on me 3 months in and was deceitful and shady about it. I caught her.

-Everything she did was a contradiction

-There was absolutely no conflict resolution with her

-She always used the term anticipating her needs

-I once asked her if she really loved her ex and her answer scared me. I asked her to describe love and she told me she felt love for him when he'd help her, like empty the dishwasher. She told me her language of love is acts of service.

-If I didn't want to go to a store with her, she would rage at me.

-She had the most layered defensive mechanisms I've ever seen. Deflect, deny, blame, minimize etc

-She was absolutely incapable of taking criticism of any kind.

-She had no interest in my needs or wants.

-She was the eternal victim.

-The sex was incredible at first and then became only on her terms, mechanical (one position only) and it had a domination feel to it. She'd whisper things to me and plant seeds in my head that I could never do better than her and that she would only do what I wanted if I did everything she said.

-She had an odd mind where huge gaps existed where she would not remember things from  a month ago that we talked about intently.

-She was a control freak

-She threw me out of her house the day my grandmother was buried for no reason.

-She was a nazi during the holidays

-Her mother was divorced multiple times and was a control freak and authoritative parent to her as a child who demanded perfection.

[LimboFL]

Thanksforplaying, the example I gave was just one. When she finally got a job downtown, I work in another city north, which would take me an hour to get home from. I began to have genuine anxiety about whether she was going to be home, when I got there. May twice a month I would get home and she wouldn't be there. No text, no warning prior, nothing. Then she would stumble in at 1am completely wasted. On a couple of occasions she too was drugged. I let it all go, but can tell you that, just those episodes left me with genuine fear. A huge one was when she was returning home from the West Coast, after spending a few week with her ailing Mother. The flight was to arrive at 11 pm. I am at the airport waiting and nothing. Last flight, no exBPDgf. I am frantic.

I proceed to call her sister and her Mother (fortunately 3 hrs behind), all they could tell me was that she was dropped off at the airport. A horrible night ensues and I then have to go to work the next morning. It isn't until 11 am the next morning that I get a call from a bail bondsmen, telling me that my ex was being released from custody. When my ex finally get home, while controlled she is actually quite displeased with me for calling her sister and her Mother (my Mother is ill) and a little peeved that I even let it phase me. Now that I think about it more, while clearly concerned, both Mom and Sis reacted quite non chalantly to the news. Clearly they weren't that surprised.

What? I almost lost in on her. " You are my partner and I love you, was I just supposed to cruise home and not worry?" She actually, to a minor degree, had me actually questioning if I had overreacted. It's insane. The sister even said to my ex "this man clearly loves you"

Wow, I can't believe that I went through all of that.

[LimboFL]

PS, vis a vis the MIA moments, my ex would always said that she couldn't help it, from time to time, her mind would just switch off with one singular objective, to go grab a few drinks. She wasn't always home after midnight, often she would be home at 10pm, but she got off at 5, so she had 5 hours of binge drinking and then come home, shocked that I would be displeased or angry. These events were when her violent rages would snap on me. Chasing me out of the apartment. I learned to hide a key outside, because I ended up sleeping on the ground outside. I remember that I once lied that I called the cops and broke back into the apartment only to find her pretending to be asleep, when just 20 minutes later we were at battle. I never ever hit her, despite the rage I had inside me and the teeth gritting as she screamed at me all by an inch from my face, while she poked me, a couple of times in my face. She would rail if I came even close to pointing at her from a long distance.

The hypocrisy was epic and writing all of this down is a huge reminder. The problem is that while her Mom was ill and after she got busted by the police at the airport (probation), she calmed. It took probation to calm her down, not her poor treatment of the man her loved and cared for her.

Shocking, really.

[Jack2727]

Here are some traits that I am keyed into

Family Dynamics

-   Parents are divorced

-   Distant relationships with siblings

-   Childhood abuse (Emo, Phy, Sex)

-   One close relationship with one parent in opposition to a turbulent relationship with another

-   History of family and marital issues beyond the nuclear family (cousins, aunts, uncles)

-   History of divorce and abuse in prior generations (behavior seems to repeat themselves) and people tend to be attracted to certain people due to genetic predispositions

-   Family was focused on materialism

-   Siblings are unmarried or divorced

Childhood

-   One parent absent either literally or figuratively

-   Overprotected

-   Lack of friends

-   Spoiled, lack of humility

Adolescent

-   Early sex or complete abstention

-   Lack of social contacts

-   All social contacts in a select strata

-   Parental interference and poor enforcement of boundaries

-   Early drinking, drugs and associated juvenile delinquency

Young Adult

-   Extremes: too social or too secluded

-   Lack of responsible behavior (parents bail out their children)

-   Job meandering, lack of focus

-   Too much sex or none at all

General Traits

-   Depressive Behavior

-   High or low interest in sex

-   Self harm

-   Bouts of rage

-   Doesn’t like to be touched

-   Lack of empathy

-   Turbulent history of relationships

-   Highly attractive and still single into 30’s (esp for women)

-   Mirroring behavior

-   Cannot be alone

-   Sleeping issues

-   Lack of object constancy

-   Certain professions (anything to do with sales, recruiters, investments, fame, teachers, academics, politicians, athletes)

-   Risky behavior (skydiving, endurance sports, sex, drugs, excessive drinking)

-   Tattoos, body piercings, odd hair coloring

-   Moving too quickly

-   Multiple failed marriages and engagements

-   Weird obsessions (elephant statues, Nancy Kerrigan)

-   Highly religious

-   Overly OCD

-   Obsessive contact (texting/calling)

-   Saying I love You within the first three months

-   Shady behavior

-   Too much or too little action on social media

-   Cyber stalking

-   Constant minor health issues esp Fibro

-   Cat or dog collecting (more than one animal)

-   Hording or collecting (ex. 50 pairs of shoes)

-   Fear of engulfment (sudden abandonment)

-   Grouchy behavior

-   Lack of close friends

-   Many friends but none close (come and go)

-   Journaling and scrapbooking

-   Rigid dieting (only will eat certain things)

-   Controlling behavior

-   Too many opposite sex orbiters

-   Me, me, me attitude

-   Bad or thoughtless gifts

-   Unreal self opinion (will only associate with certain people)

-   Childlike mannerisms and baby talk

-   Brand snob (will only wear, drive certain brands)

-   Hot or emotionless sex

-   Fluctuating mood behavior

-   History of long distance relationships

-   Lack of disclosure in regards to ex’s

-   Ex’s seem to be “completely gone” out of life

-   Irrational or emotional decision making

-   Uses children or pets as soothing objects

-   Does not announce relationship on social media after 90 days

-   Never offers to pay

-   Unclear finances

-   Habitual traveler (always travelling)

-   Lack of boundary respect (phone, email snooping)

-   Extreme jealousy

-   No jealousy at all

-   Bad hygiene

-   Says that “I always want what I can’t have”

And much more, but this is all I can think of for now.

[anxiety5]

Here are some traits that I am keyed into

Family Dynamics

-   Parents are divorced

-   Distant relationships with siblings

-   Childhood abuse (Emo, Phy, Sex)

-   One close relationship with one parent in opposition to a turbulent relationship with another

-   History of family and marital issues beyond the nuclear family (cousins, aunts, uncles)

-   History of divorce and abuse in prior generations (behavior seems to repeat themselves) and people tend to be attracted to certain people due to genetic predispositions

-   Family was focused on materialism

-   Siblings are unmarried or divorced

Childhood

-   One parent absent either literally or figuratively

-   Overprotected

-   Lack of friends

-   Spoiled, lack of humility

Adolescent

-   Early sex or complete abstention

-   Lack of social contacts

-   All social contacts in a select strata

-   Parental interference and poor enforcement of boundaries

-   Early drinking, drugs and associated juvenile delinquency

Young Adult

-   Extremes: too social or too secluded

-   Lack of responsible behavior (parents bail out their children)

-   Job meandering, lack of focus

-   Too much sex or none at all

General Traits

-   Depressive Behavior

-   High or low interest in sex

-   Self harm

-   Bouts of rage

-   Doesn’t like to be touched

-   Lack of empathy

-   Turbulent history of relationships

-   Highly attractive and still single into 30’s (esp for women)

-   Mirroring behavior

-   Cannot be alone

-   Sleeping issues

-   Lack of object constancy

-   Certain professions (anything to do with sales, recruiters, investments, fame, teachers, academics, politicians, athletes)

-   Risky behavior (skydiving, endurance sports, sex, drugs, excessive drinking)

-   Tattoos, body piercings, odd hair coloring

-   Moving too quickly

-   Multiple failed marriages and engagements

-   Weird obsessions (elephant statues, Nancy Kerrigan)

-   Highly religious

-   Overly OCD

-   Obsessive contact (texting/calling)

-   Saying I love You within the first three months

-   Shady behavior

-   Too much or too little action on social media

-   Cyber stalking

-   Constant minor health issues esp Fibro

-   Cat or dog collecting (more than one animal)

-   Hording or collecting (ex. 50 pairs of shoes)

-   Fear of engulfment (sudden abandonment)

-   Grouchy behavior

-   Lack of close friends

-   Many friends but none close (come and go)

-   Journaling and scrapbooking

-   Rigid dieting (only will eat certain things)

-   Controlling behavior

-   Too many opposite sex orbiters

-   Me, me, me attitude

-   Bad or thoughtless gifts

-   Unreal self opinion (will only associate with certain people)

-   Childlike mannerisms and baby talk

-   Brand snob (will only wear, drive certain brands)

-   Hot or emotionless sex

-   Fluctuating mood behavior

-   History of long distance relationships

-   Lack of disclosure in regards to ex’s

-   Ex’s seem to be “completely gone” out of life

-   Irrational or emotional decision making

-   Uses children or pets as soothing objects

-   Does not announce relationship on social media after 90 days

-   Never offers to pay

-   Unclear finances

-   Habitual traveler (always travelling)

-   Lack of boundary respect (phone, email snooping)

-   Extreme jealousy

-   No jealousy at all

-   Bad hygiene

-   Says that “I always want what I can’t have”

And much more, but this is all I can think of for now.

Here are some traits that I am keyed into

Family Dynamics

-   Parents are divorced

-   Distant relationships with siblings

-   Childhood abuse (Emo, Phy, Sex)

-   One close relationship with one parent in opposition to a turbulent relationship with another

-   History of family and marital issues beyond the nuclear family (cousins, aunts, uncles)

-   History of divorce and abuse in prior generations (behavior seems to repeat themselves) and people tend to be attracted to certain people due to genetic predispositions

-   Family was focused on materialism

-   Siblings are unmarried or divorced

Childhood

-   One parent absent either literally or figuratively

-   Overprotected

-   Lack of friends

-   Spoiled, lack of humility

Adolescent

-   Early sex or complete abstention

-   Lack of social contacts

-   All social contacts in a select strata

-   Parental interference and poor enforcement of boundaries

-   Early drinking, drugs and associated juvenile delinquency

Young Adult

-   Extremes: too social or too secluded

-   Lack of responsible behavior (parents bail out their children)

-   Job meandering, lack of focus

-   Too much sex or none at all

General Traits

-   Depressive Behavior

-   High or low interest in sex

-   Self harm

-   Bouts of rage

-   Doesn’t like to be touched

-   Lack of empathy

-   Turbulent history of relationships

-   Highly attractive and still single into 30’s (esp for women)

-   Mirroring behavior

-   Cannot be alone

-   Sleeping issues

-   Lack of object constancy

-   Certain professions (anything to do with sales, recruiters, investments, fame, teachers, academics, politicians, athletes)

-   Risky behavior (skydiving, endurance sports, sex, drugs, excessive drinking)

-   Tattoos, body piercings, odd hair coloring

-   Moving too quickly

-   Multiple failed marriages and engagements

-   Weird obsessions (elephant statues, Nancy Kerrigan)

-   Highly religious

-   Overly OCD

-   Obsessive contact (texting/calling)

-   Saying I love You within the first three months

-   Shady behavior

-   Too much or too little action on social media

-   Cyber stalking

-   Constant minor health issues esp Fibro

-   Cat or dog collecting (more than one animal)

-   Hording or collecting (ex. 50 pairs of shoes)

-   Fear of engulfment (sudden abandonment)

-   Grouchy behavior

-   Lack of close friends

-   Many friends but none close (come and go)

-   Journaling and scrapbooking

-   Rigid dieting (only will eat certain things)

-   Controlling behavior

-   Too many opposite sex orbiters

-   Me, me, me attitude

-   Bad or thoughtless gifts

-   Unreal self opinion (will only associate with certain people)

-   Childlike mannerisms and baby talk

-   Brand snob (will only wear, drive certain brands)

-   Hot or emotionless sex

-   Fluctuating mood behavior

-   History of long distance relationships

-   Lack of disclosure in regards to ex’s

-   Ex’s seem to be “completely gone” out of life

-   Irrational or emotional decision making

-   Uses children or pets as soothing objects

-   Does not announce relationship on social media after 90 days

-   Never offers to pay

-   Unclear finances

-   Habitual traveler (always travelling)

-   Lack of boundary respect (phone, email snooping)

-   Extreme jealousy

-   No jealousy at all

-   Bad hygiene

-   Says that “I always want what I can’t have”

And much more, but this is all I can think of for now.

Great list. It's so odd how similar they are. I'd say my ex matches a good 85% of what you have here.

I challenge everyone here to be mindful of something. For a moment, detach from the obsessive thoughts, step back from the pain. Go back in your mind to the beginning. Let's say, first month. Sit quietly and just think. Recall as much as you can of each interaction. Each date. Each time you saw them. Each conversation.

My point is, I did this and you know what?

I KNEW something was "off" with this person. I didn't know it was malignant then. I didn't know what NPD/BPD were then and I didn't masochistically seek my own destruction. Facts are I've learned a lot, I'm educated now but if I go back to the beginning. I KNEW something was not right with her. I would be willing to bet if you dig in the dirt deep enough to not only access your memories but also the feelings you had within those memories almost like reliving real time, you will notice/remember that twinge you felt.

Never again. There is nothing to fear. That will NEVER happen to me again.

[eeks]

This list of attributes reminds me I've been meaning to post something about their eyes/eye contact, wondering if anybody else has noticed.

Back when this news item happened, I saw the picture of the woman in this pair and freaked right out because her eyes look like my uBPD former friend. (minus the strained smile)  

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/joseph-pepin-cara-duval-north-bay-facility-escapees-injured-in-quebec-crash-1.2944348

A man on an FB discussion group I'm part of (not about BPD) posted something about being diagnosed with BPD and I looked at his profile and sure enough, there was the "male version" of those eyes, like the ones my uBPD ex had.

Intense eye contact, looks and feels loving, their eyes are almost childlike in a... .particular way I can't put words on.  I've met other people who have childlike/expressive/sparkly eyes who don't have BPD but this... .isn't the same.  

But you know, it's interesting that I said "looks and feels loving" because, even though they could maintain eye contact, if I really think back... .it didn't have the same soothing quality as eye contact I've had with, say, seasoned meditation practitioners.  I have anxiety disorder, the truth is I enjoy eye contact, but I have strong fears depending on certain situations (people will think I am staring, or mistake it for sexual interest when it isn't that, or I'm "not cool enough" to look at that person) so sometimes I have difficulty with eye contact.  I used to do yoga and I went to a book club at my studio and there was a man there who I thought, "I could look in his eyes all day." It wasn't sexual or erotic even, although he was attractive, it was just... .calming.

anxiety5, I too knew that something was "off" very early on both with uBPD former friend and uBPD ex, and I didn't know it was malignant either, and same here it won't happen to me again because now I know the signs.  The thing about the eyes is more like trivia, it would be my gut feelings I trust next time.

[confusedinWI]

I got triggered bad reading this last night when I read one of the posters say how his ex gf would wake up and say "baby will you hold me?". I used to love laying next to my ex gf and cuddling and she would always ask me if she could spoon me or "baby will you hold me?" Now that im coming out of the fog I see how scared she was of being let and how many times she did the push pull. She would wake up and asked to be held or she told me their were times that she said she would just watch my sleep as well. I still to this day miss holding her and wondering if ill have thst kind of closeness again

[Tay25]

This is a great thread, I knew from the beginning there was something wrong with my ex. Unfortunately she came into my life at a time of weakness, I was craving to experience love and have a SO in my life.

These are the many clues that I had missed:

- Stalking (came into my work to walk around trying to get my attention. Later set up a scenario where she would be able to talk to me and get a ride home with me)

- Acting fake around people (whenever she would come over and talk to my mom, all my ex would say is Hi and for sure, nothing else)

- Excessive praise (constantly telling me how great I am, and what a great boyfriend I am)

- Not knowing true self (I would ask what music, movies, sports etc she likes and she would say I don't know)

- Father is extremely shy, almost never talks while her mother is the opposite

- Shutting people out (her father asked her about me early in the r/ship and she told him to leave her alone, also telling me she feels like she has to leave me out of parts of her life)

- Childish thinking/behavior (I told her I didn't like her friends but I would still hang out with them if she wanted me to. She would then later say we can't go to her place because her roommates/friends are there)

- First date she barely said anything, I talked for 2 or 3 hours (reading me I suppose)

- Seducing me into sex the second time we hung out, also asking me what I liked to get my hooked

- Her friends (crazy drama queens or cold and mean people)

- Frequent change in appearance (every few weeks changing her hair in some way whether it be in length or color)

- Making herself out to be the victim after her last relationship

- Self-Aggrandizing statements (always telling me about guys touching her ass or trying to kiss her at the club)

- Reality twists (claiming I did things I didn't do)

- Unable to sleep (used to drink bottles of peptobismal to help her sleep)

- Always cold

- Eating disorders (never ate breakfast and sometimes would eat nothing all day)

- Obsession with social media (look at twitter, facebook, instagram every hour or so)

- Taking selfies on instagram every couple days (easy way to get attention and praise)

- Always telling me she is depressed/upset or whichever emotion but cannot explain why

- Extreme jealousy (At her prom in high school she was jealous of her friend because she liked the guy she was with so she told the guy that her friend didn't even like him and was just went with him because her parents made her. This started major drama and ruined the whole night)

- No Conflict Resolution (Every time we fought I felt like nothing actually got resolved because it was merely me talking about things. She would just continually bring up things that upset her and not talk about ways of resolving them)

- Lack of boundaries (she once told me her friend and her went to the club and her friend got kicked out so she left to see her friend and she started throwing a fit hitting my ex and screaming, when I told her true friends don't treat each other like that, no matter how drunk they are and she shrugged it off)

- Very immature

- Indecisive

- Irresponsible (when we broke up she told me "You know whats funny? I was in this exact same situation 2 years ago" She is unable to realize it is because of her and not everyone else)

- Projection (telling me I do the same thing she does which is untrue and criticizing me for traits that are actually hers)

- Lack of empathy (I told her it seems that nothing I do is ever enough for her and she didn't care)

[Madison66]

I don't think I missed a single clue or , but rather I just didn't listen to my gut when things felt really irrational or uncomfortable.  My uBPD/NPd ex gf of 3+ years is extremely intelligent and high functioning.  She was also extremely emotionally immature, would get really depressed or low at times, couldn't seem to regulate her emotions, was addicted to chaos, was extremely defensive, had serious abandonment issues and lacked empathy.  It was really difficult for me to grasp the huge contrasts I would see.  Some early things that I witnessed that should have scared me off were:

1. Her house was an utter mess and she almost seemed to be a "hoarder".

2. She told me she never emotionally connected with her mom as a child

3. She told me on the fourth date that she was sexually molested by a female coach in HS and never sought any T.

4. She told me she didn't trust women and had almost zero close female friends

5. She told me she had several cyber "guys" and even had one fly in from another state to stay with her while her young kids were at her house

6. One evening when we were on the phone, she just kept repeating that I would probably leave her in a month or so like they all do.  I texted her later asking her to not say that to me and that it made me feel bad.  She showed up at my door at 1am trying to wake me up.  I was crashed and didn't hear her, so she left me a crazy voicemail on my cell screaming and crying.  One of my neighbors almost called the police when she heard the chaos.

7. She used to tell me that she would leave me several times and that I should always come after her.

8. She would call me at night and want to hang on the phone for hours because she stated she couldn't stand being alone.

9. She would tell me often that she felt "disconnected" from me if we couldn't stay on the phone for long periods or if I couldn't come over to see her.

10. Early on she would tell me she was extremely jealous of my then 11 year old daughter. 

11. She had almost no contact with her family and still blamed her parents for not listening to her when she was a child.

12. She dominated our discussions with talk about how bad her ex H was and that she hated his gf.  This went on for the entire r/s and I didn't understand at that time what "triangulation" was.

13. She kept an online dating profile active even after we were sleeping together and getting serious.  When I asked her to shut it down after she'd talk about guys sending her notes, she'd push back and say it was good for her man to see she was in demand.  She eventually took it down.

I saw all this and more in the first three to four months and didn't run.  The chaos only got worse in time.  Crazy stuff that today would cause me to leave tread marks on a date's driveway.   

[StarOfTheSea]

Allow me to share my list:

-The day before our first date, telling me 'tomorrow is the first day of the rest of our lives'.

-He was shopping for engagement rings three weeks in.

-Holding my face and telling me he loved me on our first date.

-Lack of male friends; all of his 'friends' were female and most were ex gf's.

-Lack of boundaries with everyone in his life. For instance, I would be visiting, his female friend would call with her drama and he would not only take the call but talk for an hour.

-Everything was always someone else's fault.

-Told me he was going to marry me after just a few weeks in.

-Kept telling me his r/S's rarely made it post six months.

-Introduced me to his daughter waaaay too soon. (Within weeks)

-Weird hot/cold, push/pull behavior. Sometimes when we were together it was as though he had to detach from himself and his intense emotions.

-Extremely dysfunctional family and interpersonal r/s s.

-Past alcohol and hard drug use.

-Paranoid behavior, such as gaining access to his ex-wife's email via packet sniffers. (Creepy)

Knowing what I do now, I would have dated him for awhile then broken up with him. He's definitely a fun date, in fact he told me once that he does great with 3-4 dates then women bail. But I wouldn't have moved in with him. The other side of that coin is that he gave me the experience of being a mother.  Even that was bittersweet as I lost our baby last June... .So there were good and bad, but dang, all those  ! (Though the experience has made me MUCH less tolerant of r/s bs.)

If I ever meet a man like this again, I'll be running for the hills.

[anxiety5]

This is a great thread, I knew from the beginning there was something wrong with my ex. Unfortunately she came into my life at a time of weakness, I was craving to experience love and have a SO in my life.

These are the many clues that I had missed:

- Stalking (came into my work to walk around trying to get my attention. Later set up a scenario where she would be able to talk to me and get a ride home with me)

- Acting fake around people (whenever she would come over and talk to my mom, all my ex would say is Hi and for sure, nothing else)

- Excessive praise (constantly telling me how great I am, and what a great boyfriend I am)

- Not knowing true self (I would ask what music, movies, sports etc she likes and she would say I don't know)

- Father is extremely shy, almost never talks while her mother is the opposite

- Shutting people out (her father asked her about me early in the r/ship and she told him to leave her alone, also telling me she feels like she has to leave me out of parts of her life)

- Childish thinking/behavior (I told her I didn't like her friends but I would still hang out with them if she wanted me to. She would then later say we can't go to her place because her roommates/friends are there)

- First date she barely said anything, I talked for 2 or 3 hours (reading me I suppose)

- Seducing me into sex the second time we hung out, also asking me what I liked to get my hooked

- Her friends (crazy drama queens or cold and mean people)

- Frequent change in appearance (every few weeks changing her hair in some way whether it be in length or color)

- Making herself out to be the victim after her last relationship

- Self-Aggrandizing statements (always telling me about guys touching her ass or trying to kiss her at the club)

- Reality twists (claiming I did things I didn't do)

- Unable to sleep (used to drink bottles of peptobismal to help her sleep)

- Always cold

- Eating disorders (never ate breakfast and sometimes would eat nothing all day)

- Obsession with social media (look at twitter, facebook, instagram every hour or so)

- Taking selfies on instagram every couple days (easy way to get attention and praise)

- Always telling me she is depressed/upset or whichever emotion but cannot explain why

- Extreme jealousy (At her prom in high school she was jealous of her friend because she liked the guy she was with so she told the guy that her friend didn't even like him and was just went with him because her parents made her. This started major drama and ruined the whole night)

- No Conflict Resolution (Every time we fought I felt like nothing actually got resolved because it was merely me talking about things. She would just continually bring up things that upset her and not talk about ways of resolving them)

- Lack of boundaries (she once told me her friend and her went to the club and her friend got kicked out so she left to see her friend and she started throwing a fit hitting my ex and screaming, when I told her true friends don't treat each other like that, no matter how drunk they are and she shrugged it off)

- Very immature

- Indecisive

- Irresponsible (when we broke up she told me "You know whats funny? I was in this exact same situation 2 years ago" She is unable to realize it is because of her and not everyone else)

- Projection (telling me I do the same thing she does which is untrue and criticizing me for traits that are actually hers)

- Lack of empathy (I told her it seems that nothing I do is ever enough for her and she didn't care)

I haven't logged in for a bit, I checked the link that says "your posts that were responded to" Clicked this thread. Read your entry above and I swear to god I looked over to the left to check and see if I wrote this. ha ha

It's amazing how similar they ALL are. And how our experiences despite age demographic, geographic,differences are exactly the same. 

[Wellthatescaltedquickly]

Oh wow, just recalling all of the clues and noticing how similar they are to all of yours is relieving.  Here's the list of my ex... .

- she could outdrink anyone I know, maybe it's because she's athletic too, but my friends and I are as well, and she outdrank all of us.

- we had wayyyyy too much in common on the first two dates.  From liking just about all the things I liked, to past relationships failing because of the same reasons mine did (which turned out to be a lie, because she told me different reasons for each failed relationship a few weeks later).

- played the victim role perfectly.  Each of her exes was the worst boyfriend ever for a different reason (I wonder how she describes me to her new victim).  But while she was idealizing me, I was the best guy on earth, and wished I was in her life a few years before.

- talked about having kids a couple weeks into the relationship.  Not getting married, just straight to having kids.

- she had this thing of always having some sort of physical contact while we slept, be it my hand or arm on her, or legs touching, or whatever, didn't have to be spooning, but she wanted my touch the entire night.  If at any point during the night this wasn't happening, she'd nudge me or say something like "I miss you."  I was literally an inch away... .In the same bed.

- this expands on the previous item, but she would say over the phone things that, in retrospect, were screaming of abandonment issues.  Things like "are you tired? Don't hang up with me, I need to hear your voice because it makes me feel safe."  It doesn't sound that too needy/clingy, but you would totally get that vibe if you heard it.

-  extreme insecurity issues.  She was/is a gorgeous girl and it just baffled me how insecure she is.  I eventually learned to just look down in public places or just at her.

These were all things that happened in the first month, that had I known what I know now, I would've been long gone.  But, ya live, ya learn.

[Trog]

My ex showed me everything there was to show me about BPD. She is diagnosed so I knew all about it. She wrote me a letter once telling me what it feels like to have BPD. It was the only thing I saved that she wrote me after she left. The thing that stuck out to me most was a few sentences about pushing people away. In it she says that she often would push people away because she either doesn't want to be hurt by them (abandoned) or doesn't want to hurt them. When I first read this I didn't think much of it because we were still together. Now after reading it again it is something that I should have looked at more seriously.

People tell us who they are, the problem is we don't listen to the words and we explain away the actions. My ex told me she has been diagnosed with a psychotic illness by 'idiot' doctors, I ignored this and thought I could love her well. That didn't work, within 6 months she was back in a mental hospital because she did not take her medication or attend therapy. We broke up because her behaviour was batshiv crazy.

9 months later I contacted her to see if she was OK. I felt a lot of guilt for leaving an ill person. She told me she was on meds, doing Yoga, knew she was ill and that the meds helped. I took her back. Within a few months she became cagey about the meds and the doctors were 'idiots' again, she started to lower her dosage and eventually come off her meds. Guess what happened? I left her again and that was a year ago. To this day she blames me for her being sectioned, even the sectioning that happened before I met her (seriously!) and the one that happened 6 months ago when I had already been gone. She's extremely persuasive & manipulative and wholly believes her lies and her family and also vested in blaming me and suspending belief.

Whatever she is, my weak will and fear of being alone caused that second recycle at a point where I was almost free from the FOG. For the last year I have hated my ex for lying to me, the abuse, the projection and gaslighting. It feels so much better to take responsibility for the fact that I ignored her warnings, ignored her lies and am finally taking responsibility as a enabler. Ive enabled lots of bad behaviour from lots of women going back 20 years for short term gain and now, im alone and pretty broken. Im glad to putting myself back together to a whole and healthy person, it needed to happen, sadly because of my own issues.

People tell you who they are; believe them and you will save yourself a world of pain.

[anxiety5]

My ex showed me everything there was to show me about BPD. She is diagnosed so I knew all about it. She wrote me a letter once telling me what it feels like to have BPD. It was the only thing I saved that she wrote me after she left. The thing that stuck out to me most was a few sentences about pushing people away. In it she says that she often would push people away because she either doesn't want to be hurt by them (abandoned) or doesn't want to hurt them. When I first read this I didn't think much of it because we were still together. Now after reading it again it is something that I should have looked at more seriously.

People tell us who they are, the problem is we don't listen to the words and we explain away the actions. My ex told me she has been diagnosed with a psychotic illness by 'idiot' doctors, I ignored this and thought I could love her well. That didn't work, within 6 months she was back in a mental hospital because she did not take her medication or attend therapy. We broke up because her behaviour was batshiv crazy.

9 months later I contacted her to see if she was OK. I felt a lot of guilt for leaving an ill person. She told me she was on meds, doing Yoga, knew she was ill and that the meds helped. I took her back. Within a few months she became cagey about the meds and the doctors were 'idiots' again, she started to lower her dosage and eventually come off her meds. Guess what happened? I left her again and that was a year ago. To this day she blames me for her being sectioned, even the sectioning that happened before I met her (seriously!) and the one that happened 6 months ago when I had already been gone. She's extremely persuasive & manipulative and wholly believes her lies and her family and also vested in blaming me and suspending belief.

Whatever she is, my weak will and fear of being alone caused that second recycle at a point where I was almost free from the FOG. For the last year I have hated my ex for lying to me, the abuse, the projection and gaslighting. It feels so much better to take responsibility for the fact that I ignored her warnings, ignored her lies and am finally taking responsibility as a enabler. Ive enabled lots of bad behaviour from lots of women going back 20 years for short term gain and now, im alone and pretty broken. Im glad to putting myself back together to a whole and healthy person, it needed to happen, sadly because of my own issues.

People tell you who they are; believe them and you will save yourself a world of pain.

You have the gift of awareness. Good for you. I'm just getting there myself. When we say, "eh, I can deal with it. I can manage it, or I can change this person" It's a delusional land of denial. It's really difficult to get out of that. You sound like you are really in touch with that, good for you.

The part I struggle with as I clear from the fog, is despite the awareness of everything you said, despite understanding family dynamics of my childhood. Despite knowing they aren't good for you, despite all of that. Despite feeling pretty good about myself, why do I seem to willingly pursue them? It's like if you took 2 women. I always seem to only feel that real drive to want the relationship with the one who turns out to be the crazy one. And I understand fully about repetition complexes, familiarity patterns, family origin dynamics, etc. But I think it's deeper than any of that. Imagine if these two women were 100% identical in every facet and magically in month 6, only one of them would turn crazy, while the other would be exactly as great as she appears to be through and through. I feel like subconsciously I know. Without understanding it, sensing it, and even in an experiment like the one above, I know I would pick the one who goes haywire in month 6. And that's not to say I'm "cursed" woe is me, I just think there is a higher wavelength/connection pattern that I can't even access, and like a moth to a flame, it pulls me in despite understanding my own emotional demise will be the price I pay for even attempting it.

[Trog]

Hello Anxiety,

I can't pretend to know the answer to that question, as ive been attracted to these kinds of women too and my newly found understanding has yet to be put to the test in a LtR. However I will say two things 1) you sound like you've created a real story for yourself there, I know, as it's the same for me, that I've always ended up in relationships with these kinds of women and when I haven't ive been bored an dumped them but I really believe that is because 2) i was only attracted to these girls because of the unresolved issues I have now. Assume it's the same for you. So the theory goes... .we change ourselves, value ourselves and what awesomeness we bring and don't let anyone treat us with any disrespect and we'll attract and will be attracted to great women. In effect, we change and that change effects our relationship & relationship choices.

Ive had a couple of tests since I left my wife, two very beautiful but very disrespectful women come into my life who i closed the door on fast, one was very sexually inappropriate and the other very disrespectful of my time. I'd have shrugged both those behaviours off and tried to form something with both of these women before the BPD-hell-on-toast-soul-breaking relationship. We change & the patterns change. We value ourselves, we don't tolerate women (or men) who don't value us, so you can't pull a 'wrong 'un!

[anxiety5]

Hello Anxiety,

I can't pretend to know the answer to that question, as ive been attracted to these kinds of women too and my newly found understanding has yet to be put to the test in a LtR. However I will say two things 1) you sound like you've created a real story for yourself there, I know, as it's the same for me, that I've always ended up in relationships with these kinds of women and when I haven't ive been bored an dumped them but I really believe that is because 2) i was only attracted to these girls because of the unresolved issues I have now. Assume it's the same for you. So the theory goes... .we change ourselves, value ourselves and what awesomeness we bring and don't let anyone treat us with any disrespect and we'll attract and will be attracted to great women. In effect, we change and that change effects our relationship & relationship choices.

Ive had a couple of tests since I left my wife, two very beautiful but very disrespectful women come into my life who i closed the door on fast, one was very sexually inappropriate and the other very disrespectful of my time. I'd have shrugged both those behaviours off and tried to form something with both of these women before the BPD-hell-on-toast-soul-breaking relationship. We change & the patterns change. We value ourselves, we don't tolerate women (or men) who don't value us, so you can't pull a 'wrong 'un!

Very well said. We both have educated ourselves and have a lot of theoretical knowledge. For me, it's the applied knowledge that I need to work on. I guess it will only happen if I put it into action. Refuse to ignore the red flags, and leave when our boundaries are obliterated.

[ThanksForPlaying]

I always seem to only feel that real drive to want the relationship with the one who turns out to be the crazy one.

A5 - there's a book I found on this board called Codependent No More. I'm reading it on my kindle. 

from chapter 1:

"Give me a room full of women, and I’ll fall in love with the one with the most problems—the one that will treat me the worst. Frankly, they’re more of a challenge"

I haven't finished the book so don't really have a recommendation yet but I felt like that part described me