How did you let go of those hopes and dreams?

[michel71]

I need to divorce. This relationship is terrifying and toxic. Yet sometimes I look at her and see the woman that I had all these hopes and dreams with. My head torments me with flashes of her saying her wedding vows to me and how beautiful she was on our wedding day. I was so full of happiness then now it is only dread. 

How do you all get past this? Help please.

[Invictus01]

I educated myself on what I was dealing with. Educated as in read up anything and everything I could find, looked up boards like this one, read other people's experiences. Once you do that, you realize that there is really no way to have a normal relationship with a BPD person. I can tell you right now that if it wasn't for BPD in her, if what we had was actually real and not an act she put up for me, I would probably proposing to that girl in a month or so. Knowing what I know now, I'm glad she pulled the plug when she did... .

[ReluctantSurvivor]

It's really hard for me to let go.  Even though I know about BPD, even though I know she is long gone and that I fell in love with an act, it is difficult to let the dream die.  That is the thing, I love a dream.  Reality does not equal that dream.  It takes such deep feelings a long time to fade.  I'm 8 months out and still working on it.  A professional told me it would take a year or two to work through.

  I think what makes it so hard is that I stayed so much longer than I should have because of FOG(fear, obligation, guilt).  All that extra trauma, fighting tooth and nail for nothing is one bitter pill.

[Mutt]

I need to divorce. This relationship is terrifying and toxic. Yet sometimes I look at her and see the woman that I had all these hopes and dreams with. My head torments me with flashes of her saying her wedding vows to me and how beautiful she was on our wedding day. I was so full of happiness then now it is only dread.  

How do you all get past this? Help please.

Hi michel71,

Do you feel you might be hanging on to the person that idealized you?

Do you hope that the person you first met comes back?

[mitatsu]

My wedding to my udBpdStbxW was the most magical day of my life (bar the birth of my 2 children) it was a perfect sunny day we dressed in our steampunk clothes and enjoyed the company of good friends

Alas it was just the start of rages/paranoia/control/kitchen sinking/emotional abuse and whilst i hold the fondest memories of that day and her beauty... .the memory of her 'ugly' side keeps me strong and whilst i know under all the toxic sludge is a goddess the thought of not being a sacrifice at her disordered altar and having the life and love i deserve keeps me moving forward 

[michel71]

Mutt... .yes and yes

[Mutt]

I married three years after we met and the cracks were in the foundation.

My wedding day was a day were I was heavily idealized and also a day of drama. She was triangulating me with my family.

It was also a day were q felt like the other shoe was going to drop. I was anxious and dreaded that things were going to get worse and my instincts were correct. Things were relatively calm for the following six months and the cracks in the foundations of the relationship were serious. I dissociated and hung unto the ideal that the person that I first met and that was partially there on my wedding day would return.

I was idealized because I was fulfilling something that she wanted, it was her idea to get married and it was also my choice because I thought it was a "fix" for our relationship. Not a wise choice.

I had to let go of the person that idealized me and the hopes that things would return that way. A relationship were a person is idealized is not a healthy relationship in contrast to the toxicity in the relationship as well.

I didn't know of borderline personality disorder during or before the relationship and was with her for 7 and half years. Intermittently I kept hanging on to hope that the woman that idealized me would return when things were really bad.

I thought that was the real person. I had to let that person go because she wasn't whom my ex partner is. I had to accept reality and that a loved one I cared deeply for suffers serious mental illness.

[AwakenedOne]

My BPD wife tossed me away like garbage after 4 years. I then divorced her.

The Mask

There is much talk and reference to "The Mask" at this site and also elsewhere. As I see it, what we fell in love with was a "Mask". Think of it as a Halloween mask of her choice. She was wearing a Cinderella or maybe it was a Snow White mask? When the mask comes off you are then introduced to the "Real Person". That person is much different than the one you fell in love with and married. We separated a year ago. I don't know who she is. How could I know though? She doesn't know who she is. Having this understanding lessens the pain from remembering all the beautiful things that she said and memories of all the dreams together. In its place though you end up with a sucker feeling like you just got ripped off by a used car salesman who sold you a beautiful Porsche but it turns out there was no freakin engine inside of the car after you paid him the money. Always look under the hood carefully first my friend.

[Mutt]

I think AwakenedOne makes a good point with masks.

I see two people now and one more so than the other. Sometimes she wears a mask depending on who's in our company; the kids for example and this is her false self. It's not sustainable; she has unstable interpersonal relationships and an unstable sense of self. She doesn't know whom she really is.

The other person I see is the person that projects shame, guilt, insecure, empty, low self worth; the person that's under the surface.

[Recooperating]

Hey Michel!

Good to hear from you! I was wondering how you were! I am sorry Michel that things arent working out for you and your wife. I hope you'll be okay and safe... .

How did I let go of my hopes and dreams? I stopped believing in Santa Claus... .Thats basically what this experience was like... .The man doesnt exist. He was a figment of my imagination, a mirrage, a projection. He pretended to be Santa, all good and jolly, but underneath the costume was ebenezer/chuckie... .

The whole thing was a lie, a dream a fairytale and I needed to wake up from this coma! He's off into the sunset with the affair/replacement and I will from now on only deal with the truth and reality. Radical Acceptance, hard work, grieving, building a new life... .

Hardest thing I ever did, but now after 6 months NC, I can say it strenghtened me, it thought me so much about myself.

Hang in there Michel, take care!  

[FlSunshineGirl]

I also had to come to terms with the fact that who my ex presented to me was just a mirror of my ideas and values. He went from not religious to going to church all the time because faith is a big part of my life. He liked so many of the same things as me. Professed he loved Chritmas and everything about it. We talked abou favorite Christmas songs.

Later when the cracks started, found out he was faking his faith, hated Christmas music, hated the beach (which I loved) was just this whole different person.

He molded his personality and likes and dislikes to whomever he was with.

Upon doing much research about BPD, I found out about the masks and the mirroring.

I held onto the words he said and the promises he made. But his actions didn't match his words.

What he wanted changed constantly. Luckily we never married and never got engaged. We had talked about it (looking back, way too soon  ) at the start of our relationship.

It was just something I had to open my eyes to, that everything we talked about was a fantasy and the reality of our relatinship was night and day from that fantasy.

[antelope]

Radical Acceptance

^this is your first strategy in overcoming the fantasy of who thought she was

your second strategy is defining what those 'hopes and dreams' really were... .usually our hopes and dreams with a BPD are pure fantasy too and revolve mostly around resolving our own insecurities and deficient self-esteem... .through them, by hoping they anoint us king of the world again    

[michel71]

Thank you to all of you for your great insight. And hello again Recoop. I had an emotional breakdown tonight which ended up with me in a sobbing mess holding onto her,telling her how much I love her,telling her all I need is for her to be nice to me and value me and feel taken care of just as much as I do her. She lovingly held me, looked into my eyes and told ME that I don't take care of her, that I am toxic, cruel and abusing. Basically she told me the things I would always confront her with (projection). I just looked back at her and whimpered without arguing with her. I am not sure if I am strong enough for all this.

[Mutt]

I'm sorry your going through this. Do you mean your not sure if you want to divorce?

[Blimblam]

what helped me get over it was by taking the time to really understand the disorder and the dynamic between me and my ex.  when I arrived at the boards I saw a slot of jargon being thrown around at the time what stood out for me was gaslighting.  Also being painted black or white or feelings or facts these were like little mantras being thrown around but it took really taking the time to understand the underlying mechanisms of splitting and clinical theory and then even after that a lot of contemplation to begin to make sense of it.  The aide of a therapist would be priceless here!  Then eventually radical acceptance came. 

When I think of the concept of mirroring I see it tottaly different than I did when I arrived and often see it used on the boards.  So I think really putting in the time and energy to make sense of it is the way through it and it can make sense eventually making more and more sense.

For me personally I've had to blend like 5 different psychological models and create my own synthesis.

[downwhim]

Michael71," I need to divorce." That is how you started this post. Those are strong words. I have said them before and the realization is frightening.  I remember that heavy feeling.

You have told her how you feel and she projects her anger on to you. You have said this relationship is toxic and just from reading your words I can honestly feel the pain you are in.

Sometimes stepping away from the situation will help you think more clearly. Can you go stay with a friend, go to a peaceful place, get your thoughts together on how you want to do this? Call a T and discuss your exit and what to prepare for?

My heart goes out to you. This is not easy but you will find HOPE and PEACE again.

[FlSunshineGirl]

I agree with downwhim, sometimes if you take a step back and get enough space to think you can see more clearly.

That's what I had to do with my ex. I had being going through a lot personally and asked for some space. He reluctantly gave me my space. That was the week before our final break up.

For that entire week, I felt free. My mind was clearer, I wasn't stressed out, my anxiety and stomach issues (caused from the stress from our crazy relationship) ceased, it was pretty clear to me that I needed to get out of this toxic relationship once and for all.

We had so many break up and make ups.

But when I was in the midst of the crazy, he kept me so off kilter with all the drama and making up and back to more drama that I could barely function in any area of my life because his chaos was all consuming!

Get some space and do some thinking about how you feel away from the drama and what you want and need to make YOU happy.

[Trog]

I haven't let go of the hopes and dreams, I've just let go of the hopes and dreams with her. I always knew she had mental issues and for a large part of our relationship she had that under some control (the manic episodes) but was always a difficult person. I simply, in the end, was not getting what I needed from a relationship from her. Everything in our relationship was about her, her family, her career, she never gave any recognition or praise for the anything I achieved. In the end I left that relationship with far less than I went in, in terms of finances, salary etc, there was just no room for me to grow, however it seems all that growth, at least emotional growth has come in a flourish since leaving her even if my finances are not yet where I'd like them to be, neither my health, but with her, they were always going to slide. Since leaving my exW I have lost 10kgs, am dressing better and am socialising more and I finally have the time to go for my dreams.

Those dreams include starting my own business, finding a stable and loving (she was a long long way from that) woman who can offer me something instead of being constantly on the emotional take. It lasted 7 years and honestly has took its toll, from time to time it bothers me that she has no inkling of the slide she put my life on, everything after all is my fault and no doubt I deserve it in her eyes, but my hopes and dreams were utterly crushed and compromised, one of the last things she did was throw a huge emotional tantrum over my desire a business with a colleague even though it would only have benefitted her, it wasn't in her controlling plan of my life as a relational object to her. I haven't yet grasped or realised all my dreams, but I'm far closer now than anytime since meeting my exBpdW.

[Vatz]

My case was easy. She broke up with me.

But then again, I slowly pushed her away. Not intentionally but my depression made me into a boring person. I wasn't much fun to hang out with and I rarely went out. Yeah, so for her it must have been easy to walk away.

How do I let go of the dreams? I remind myself that it could never be. I wasn't who she wanted, she just wanted *someone*. Though I'm sure if she wasnt mentally I'll she wouldn't have wanted me PERIOD. It helps keep my distance. Your case is different but I think I can tell you this... .

Whatever dreams you have with her just can't be. With a disordered person, your relationship with her will be all about the disorder. What dreams can you build when her mind is warped?

I don't know. Its painful and I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Fraggle12]

I feel your pain. Not many weeks go by when I don't think, I can't do this any more, I can't keep 'holding it together'. It's crushing the very life out me. But then the hopes and dreams come back and keep coming back. And how ever hurt I am, how ever much I've been let down, what ever he has called me, broken etc etc, I just can't let go.

I don't have an answer to your question but be assured, you're not alone.

Hugs

[hergestridge]

A different take on this:

You have to understand that the hopes and dreams were yours and not shared by the two of you. Your BPD partner lives in a bubble with her/his own feelings.

I spent 20 years trying to have a relationship with a woman who never really had a relationship with me. Our happy times together were when she decided to let a little sunshine in my direction, which had nothing to do with anything I had done or said to her. It was just when she felt like it. My efforts to make her happy were futile.

It took a while for me to admit even to myself that after we split up I still had hopes and dreams, and these hopes and dreams were not as centered around my ex partner as I had imagined. I dreamed of happiness and a better future, and I wanted her to be part of it. Now it was obvious that she neither wanted or was able to be part that, but my hopes and dreams were still there. I still have hopes and dreams for my daughter, myself and for the woman I hope to find in the future.

I'm still bitter and resentful on a bad day, but it's liberating to realize how little part my BPD partner actually played in the happy times I have had.

[findingmyselfagain]

Lots of wisdom on this thread. My hopes and dreams kept me wanting to keep trying for a long time. Now I realize a Disney movie has a better chance of becoming reality! It's better to realize those hopes and dreams with someone who can give you the love you deserve.

[ThanksForPlaying]

I feel your pain. Not many weeks go by when I don't think, I can't do this any more, I can't keep 'holding it together'. It's crushing the very life out me. But then the hopes and dreams come back and keep coming back. And how ever hurt I am, how ever much I've been let down, what ever he has called me, broken etc etc, I just can't let go.

I don't have an answer to your question but be assured, you're not alone.

Hugs

Some days I can barely get out of bed, and she insults me for being lazy.  I know I need to work on myself - need to take responsibility for my own feelings of depression.  However, I know it didn't start until we were together.  Whether it was just a coincidence or not, getting out of the relationship seems like the healthiest choice right now.  But I can still create some fantastic hopes and dreams in my head of what could be.  Hang in there all.

[drummerboy]

You must understand that the person you fell in love with never existed, she was a myth that you and she created. The words, especially in the beginning, in the infatuation stage were just words, the real person can only be discovered by looking at her actions. How self absorbed was she? Did she ever go out of her way for other people unless there was some reward for her down the road? Look at the actions, they are the reality, not the woman you thought you saw on your wedding day.

[ShadowIntheNight]

Did she ever go out of her way for other people unless there was some reward for her down the road? Look at the actions, they are the reality

My ex to a T. The summer my father died her neighbor's husband died a week later. She tells me about it afterwards, says she sent her a card, wanted her to know that even though they didn't know each other well, that she was sorry he died. In six years I had never even heard her mention that she knew who she lived next door to.

The one and only time I yelled at her in our relationship was that day. I told her that it was nice that she was sending a card to a neighbor she never mentioned in 6 years, and that my father had died 10 days ago and I had YET to receive a sympathy card from her. I think it was the first time I ever put her on her heels that I thought she might be nothing more than an egotistical opportunist. It turns out I was absolutely correct. Too bad it took 3.5 more years of me getting used to really believe that about her.

[hergestridge]

You must understand that the person you fell in love with never existed, she was a myth that you and she created. The words, especially in the beginning, in the infatuation stage were just words, the real person can only be discovered by looking at her actions. How self absorbed was she? Did she ever go out of her way for other people unless there was some reward for her down the road? Look at the actions, they are the reality, not the woman you thought you saw on your wedding day.

And you don't have to beat yourself up for believing in all the nice words and promises. Normally there are some actions to back the words up. It is a personality disorder that creates an abnormal personality. It plays tricks on the brain.

Sometimes the fact that you as a "non" have "issues" is overplayed, especially here on this site. That may be so (and may not be so), but let's not forget that a pwBPD are very confusing to be up close with. You go through what happened again and again and it never really makes sense.

[Trog]

Did she ever go out of her way for other people unless there was some reward for her down the road? Look at the actions, they are the reality

My ex to a T. The summer my father died her neighbor's husband died a week later. She tells me about it afterwards, says she sent her a card, wanted her to know that even though they didn't know each other well, that she was sorry he died. In six years I had never even heard her mention that she knew who she lived next door to.

The one and only time I yelled at her in our relationship was that day. I told her that it was nice that she was sending a card to a neighbor she never mentioned in 6 years, and that my father had died 10 days ago and I had YET to receive a sympathy card from her. I think it was the first time I ever put her on her heels that I thought she might be nothing more than an egotistical opportunist. It turns out I was absolutely correct. Too bad it took 3.5 more years of me getting used to really believe that about her.

Those particular incidents really bother me. The ones where you are at your lowest and desperate for support and then they do something incredibly callous, it's not normal, I've had many girlfriends who were able to be compassionate, I believe they know full well they are behaving badly.

[michel71]

I thank you all for your many comments. I have written some of them down to refer to in my darkest hours.

I haven't checked in on this message board for several weeks hoping that by some miracle inaction and inertia would lead to something better.I recycled with "one foot in" and unable to ruminate over things any longer I simply gave it over to God to direct my steps. Because the illness always wins I now find myself back to square one.

We went out of town for mother's day weekend. Another feeble attempt on my part for normalcy and wanting to do something nice for her. How many times have I tried the vacation thing only for it to be a total disaster. Last weekend was no exception. She misinterpreted something I said as a personal affront to her and we haven't spoken since except a plea on my part that we not quarrel. She met that with the ugliest look I have seen on her face, total disgust of me. I called her on it. She said " because I am looking at YOU". At that moment, as if I never have truly heard it before, it resonated with me for some reason. I knew that there was nothing more to say. Our relationship was dead.

4 days no talk. We are leading separate lives. I sleep in the bedroom and she downstairs. Simply two ships that pass in the night. Gone are those desperate feelings on my part to connect with her, to initiate conversation even if it meant more verbal bashing from her. I don't want to talk anymore about anything. I have nothing to say, nothing new to add, no revelation on anything. For me that is quite unusual. I usually have something to say and pretty much an opinion on everything! I am in a place of "dignified silence" yes but more out of protection mode. I am emotionally battered by drama and won't put myself through it.

I am going out of town next week to be with my daughter for her birthday. I am not going to let my UBPDW engage me in drama, ultimatums or any type of serious conversation about the status of our dead relationship and what to do next. IT would simply ruin my time with my daughter and like so many times before I would leave town only to be miserable and pining for some sort of understanding or reconciliation. I owe it to myself to not engage with her. And that is okay.

I am seeing a family law attorney friend tonight to discuss options. At this point I just want to escape. Move out. Move out of MY OWN HOUSE ( it was a pre-marital asset)... .a home that I have loved and enjoyed as a personal sanctuary only for it to become polluted by her toxicity. I used to relish coming home and now I am only filled with dread. You are probably wondering why she can't just move out. She has no money. Worked one day since she got here one year ago ( immigration process ... .wife originally from the UK). Supported her. Everything paid for. Taken care of her like a queen. I am nothing but her lowly servant now.

[Achaya]

We have to face reality as it presents itself to us, but the reality with pwBPDs constantly shifts. Those of us who are stable don't make those shifts very well, because we can't just switch off feelings, or jump from one part of ourselves into another, where the feelings are so different. We have to let go of deep attachments in the normal way, by giving up on realizing our hopes with this particular person, by hard grieving after that.

It's so difficult to know when we should separate from someone, even in normal relationships. When is bad so bad that getting out would be better? When our BPD partners can change so drastically and suddenly from day to day, how do we gauge when it's gotten bad enough and will stay that way? One expert on BPD (Otto Kernberg) has said that pwBPDs are "stably unstable." They hop from one part of themselves to another, but don't make much forward progress. Once this pattern is "stable," things don't really get better overall, even if there are still some really good times.

[peacefulmind]

We have to face reality as it presents itself to us, but the reality with pwBPDs constantly shifts. Those of us who are stable don't make those shifts very well, because we can't just switch off feelings, or jump from one part of ourselves into another, where the feelings are so different. We have to let go of deep attachments in the normal way, by giving up on realizing our hopes with this particular person, by hard grieving after that.

It's so difficult to know when we should separate from someone, even in normal relationships. When is bad so bad that getting out would be better? When our BPD partners can change so drastically and suddenly from day to day, how do we gauge when it's gotten bad enough and will stay that way? One expert on BPD (Otto Kernberg) has said that pwBPDs are "stably unstable." They hop from one part of themselves to another, but don't make much forward progress. Once this pattern is "stable," things don't really get better overall, even if there are still some really good times.

This holds a lot of truth to it and it gives a great perspective as to how the relationship dynamics change so often. I went through 3 big changes in my own BPD relationship, and I was left wondering what the hell happened. One day it was all talk about marriage and children, whereas a few months later it was all about his/her career, and the first subsided into being mentioned maybe once more throughout the entire relationship. It confuses us and keeps us at constant awareness as to when the next major change is going to happen, and it gives power to the BPD through the control of the environment, dreams, and hopes of you. Your dreams and hopes may still be present, but not until we understand that they were entirely on ourselves, and not our partner, can we start letting go of these fantasies revolving around our  BPDs.