she gave me permission to email I sent this part two

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Jhkbuzz wrote :

"I bolded the ones that fit for my ex - who is undiagnosed as well.

But is having an "official" diagnosis really important anyway?

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Try to get the focus off her (and her possible BPD for a moment): Is who she is and the r/s you had what you envision a close, intimate, fulfilling r/s to be?

If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter whether or not she has BPD.  YOU'RE not happy, and you weren't happy for a long time. Meditate on THAT thought as you consider how to move forward into the next chapter of your life."


I was content was it Romeo and juilet?  no! was it a lot of stress and conflict yep did I love her? do I still do? yes! .  was there a time I felt I wanted out no not a second not even a moment .

[dobie]

Jhkbuzz wrote :

"I bolded the ones that fit for my ex - who is undiagnosed as well.

But is having an "official" diagnosis really important anyway?

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Try to get the focus off her (and her possible BPD for a moment): Is who she is and the r/s you had what you envision a close, intimate, fulfilling r/s to be?

If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter whether or not she has BPD.  YOU'RE not happy, and you weren't happy for a long time. Meditate on THAT thought as you consider how to move forward into the next chapter of your life."


I was content was it Romeo and juilet?  no! was it a lot of stress and conflict yep did I love her? do I still do? yes! .  was there a time I felt I wanted out no not a second not even a moment .

[Sunfl0wer]

Not to give you a hard time Dobie, I think you know I care, so I feel like I can say this... .but you did side step the question a bit and made it into your own question.

Look again!   

[dobie]

Not to give you a hard time Dobie, I think you know I care, so I feel like I can say this... .but you did side step the question a bit and made it into your own question.

Look again!    

No but I don't believe in fairy tales sunflower x

Sometimes good is good enough imperfect yep

[dobie]

I was just thinking on her behaviours compared to other women ive broken up with or them me . its not normal or healthy to be more concerned with how much money she spent or lost on the r/s than the emotional fall out its not healthy or normal after six years to ignore your ex and not even have the decency to acknowledge an email even to say no I don't think friends is a good idea. To always try and see the worst in everything to play the victim .

To say weeks before the b/u out of the blue "I would kill myself if something happened to you " then weeks later find out when you no longer "need" that person you cut them off


To be that selfish shallow  and self centred that's not healthy forget anything else .



But what is the kicker is this was in front of my face from day one I just kept making excuses kept thinking she "loves me" when she only "loves what she needs" . :'(

[dobie]

She never grieved either she said she had fallen out of love a year ago but still there was no grief no sense of loss no heartfelt goodbyes .

Just her relief it was over

So little empathy or compassion heart breaking  :'(

[Sunfl0wer]

I think it can be easy even for "non's" to want to split their ex into all good or all bad.  It helps us to avoid the pain.

In reality, we had good times and bad time with our ex.  The challenge sometimes is, to hold both of these sides of experiences with them in our minds when thinking about "the past" or our "future" with(out) them.

It is our mind's defense mechanism that wants to either hold on to all the good memories and deeply miss the person.  Other times our mind's defense mechanisms hold onto all the bad of the person to make being without them seem less painful.

The integration of these ideas may be the most confusing and painful idea to consider.  The integration of these sides leaves us feeling uncertain, makes it feel like closure is harder to attain.

I think that is why some members describe "leaning into the pain."  By accepting the pain of this uncertainty, feeling and experiencing, we are growing.  I think feeling the pain is actually not what we should be trying to avoid, but instead, allowing ourselves to feel.  Feeling it and living it, while integrating all of them, I think this may be a piece of closure puzzle.

(idk... .just thinking out loud on the spot here tho... .and very tired but restless)

[Sunfl0wer]

She never grieved either she said she had fallen out of love a year ago but still there was no grief no sense of loss no heartfelt goodbyes .

Just her relief it was over

So little empathy or compassion heart breaking  :'(

Your experience of her experience   ... .is not her experience.

A person with BPD is known for behaviors/words/feelings/actions not matching.  My ex's certainly were not in sync.

I believe he actually feels guilty for leaving, and he is trying to pick a fight with me, so that he can have a reason to be angry at me on his way out.  He is more comfortable being angry at me than he is at processing his feelings of grief and loss.

[dobie]

Hi sunflower 

Yes she switched from uncertainty to anger and provocation very early on even going so far as to say the whole r/s she had been unhappy which is ridiculous .

After week one it was anger even meeting my bro the other week the anger is evident although she conceded not all the r/s was bad

Its mostly anger now though hence the inability to process normally to empathise to balance to give me the decency of a heartfelt goodbye like a normal person in touch with ones feelings would do baring abuse or infidelity .

The ignoring of my email/s all forms of repressed anger passive aggressive and the need to be and feel in control (something she always feared a lack of control)

Hope your not feeling as restless I got drunk last night to numb myself so I empathise sunflower 

[Infared]

Sunflower said:

"I think that is why some members describe "leaning into the pain."  By accepting the pain of this uncertainty, feeling and experiencing, we are growing.  I think feeling the pain is actually not what we should be trying to avoid, but instead, allowing ourselves to feel.  Feeling it and living it, while integrating all of them, I think this may be a piece of closure puzzle.

(idk... .just thinking out loud on the spot here tho... .and very tired but restless)"

Dobie... .you made a statement referring to Sunflower's statement above that you:

"Hope you are not feeling restless  I got drunk last night to numb myself so I empathize, sunflower"

It may not be my place, and I am trying to be helpful here, not scold. I say this with love.

Dobie, Sunflower is talking about it being healthy for us to feel our feelings so that we can heal.  Getting drunk and numbing one's self is exactly the opposite of what she is stating. When a person gets drunk and numbs them-self they are flat out avoiding feeling the feelings.

The thing is this... BPD or no BPD that person is gone. In my case I believe she was BPD, and she ran off with a replacement and was dishonest and brutally cruel to me.  She lied and lied and lied... .(but left little bits of hope to keep me in the background-super selfish).

One thing that my T had to point out to me was that I certainly was not going to get ANYTHING from her., closure or anything else. A person with BPD a is most likely not capable of that. I was on my own. That was gone. I had to grieve the loss and pick up the pieces. Expecting anything from my ex to help me with "my" new, unwanted situation was simply avoiding the obvious... .no matter how much I wished or hoped it was different. Drinking, for me would just help me avoid my current reality and put me in a deeper state of depression. Alcohol is a depressant. Straight up.

I HAD to accept my current reality to move forward... or I was just stuck in the past, wallowing.

It's painful, grown-up stuff... .it was NOT where I wanted to be. ... .but if I took stock of my situation, there it was... .right in my face.  "I" needed to take care of me. No one else was going to.

I had to start taking small steps in my life that we're loving me. Not hurting me. One of the major steps (for me at that time), was I had to go "no contact" with my ex. For me... any contact was self-imposed suicide. It was a difficult thing for me to do... but I sought out healthy support wherever I could to help me and I was able to go absolute NC. That is when my new journey began.  

[dobie]

Inferno when it gets too much sometimes I hit the bottle I'm talking real bad not just I feel blue I know its not healthy but sometimes bro the weight is just too much

I really want to go NC trouble is I remember her email Addy .

Social media is a poison she blocked me on her phone and wassapp hopefully she will inform me I'm blocked via email after she ignored the last one .


I'm proud of how I hamdled this BU I didn't react with anger or vengeance  ive text her 3-4 times and emailed a few I took care of my s**t and my responsabilites but I'm not super human sometimes it just gets so heavy bro

[Infared]

Inferno when it gets too much sometimes I hit the bottle I'm talking real bad not just I feel blue I know its not healthy but sometimes bro the weight is just too much

I really want to go NC trouble is I remember her email Addy .

Social media is a poison she blocked me on her phone and wassapp hopefully she will inform me I'm blocked via email after she ignored the last one .


I'm proud of how I hamdled this BU I didn't react with anger or vengeance  ive text her 3-4 times and emailed a few I took care of my s**t and my responsabilites but I'm not super human sometimes it just gets so heavy bro

 let go 

Hardest thing I ever did in my life. I mean that. ... .but I had to save me.

[dobie]

Inferno when it gets too much sometimes I hit the bottle I'm talking real bad not just I feel blue I know its not healthy but sometimes bro the weight is just too much

I really want to go NC trouble is I remember her email Addy .

Social media is a poison she blocked me on her phone and wassapp hopefully she will inform me I'm blocked via email after she ignored the last one .


I'm proud of how I hamdled this BU I didn't react with anger or vengeance  ive text her 3-4 times and emailed a few I took care of my s**t and my responsabilites but I'm not super human sometimes it just gets so heavy bro

 let go 

Hardest thing I ever did in my life. I mean that. ... .but I had to save me.

I want to I just don't know how  :'(

[Infared]

Inferno when it gets too much sometimes I hit the bottle I'm talking real bad not just I feel blue I know its not healthy but sometimes bro the weight is just too much

I really want to go NC trouble is I remember her email Addy .

Social media is a poison she blocked me on her phone and wassapp hopefully she will inform me I'm blocked via email after she ignored the last one .


I'm proud of how I hamdled this BU I didn't react with anger or vengeance  ive text her 3-4 times and emailed a few I took care of my s**t and my responsabilites but I'm not super human sometimes it just gets so heavy bro

 let go 

Hardest thing I ever did in my life. I mean that. ... .but I had to save me.

I want to I just don't know how  :'(

dobie... .I know... .trust me ... .I know.  We have to go... and change or we are destined to pick the same person... .again.

She isn't who we thought she was... .I can tell you that. 

[dobie]

Mine was who she was but all the bad points amplified mask off sort of thing .

the thing that blows my mind is her telling me she loved me but was not " in love with me for over a year "

i was falling more in love with her and she was using and blindsiding me that's

the most traumatic part how can i trust myself or a s/o again .

i don't think she is even capable of love its "need" its always about her

[Infared]

Mine was who she was but all the bad points amplified mask off sort of thing .

the thing that blows my mind is her telling me she loved me but was not " in love with me for over a year "

i was falling more in love with her and she was using and blindsiding me that's

the most traumatic part how can i trust myself or a s/o again .

i don't think she is even capable of love its "need" its always about her

Correct.  Mine said to me (gone with replacement)... ."I love you... .but I am not in love with you." What the heck? ... .at 35years old?  That is something that a 7th grader says. Sorry. Obviously, when he walked in the room... .she was no longer in love with me.  Whatever.

That is what I am trying to say here... .It is always about THEM.   They are not really capable of real love. Real deep commitment. You show someone real love... .you do not tell them about it (you can tell them about it too... .but it can't just be your emotional gushing lip service.  That is the love of a child.).

So... .there is just nothing there to work with long term... and coming to grips with that... when you/I thought it was otherwise is really, really, really tough stuff.

Accepting the reality, letting go and taking care of ourselves is big-boy-pants stuff.  We need to be easy on ourselves... .but we need to start walking in another direction... .for us.

[dobie]

I thought "i love you but in not in love with you" was a standard breakup line?

The irony of my x is she told me "she had grown up from me" now i admit i am a little immature and i was more so when we met 6 -7 years ago but i grew in a lot of ways she never did the only thing i saw growing with her over the years was the coldness of her heart .

[dobie]

Why would she ignore the email though ?

Its not a yes let's be friends or no never contact me again .

She gave permission , I've done no real wrong apart from a few stupid drunken texts .

Why would she not respond at all ?

I mean if a causal acquaintance emailed me I would respond ... .

[dobie]

The ignoring the email is that a sign of a disordered personality intself ? I mean I did not abuse , cheat or hurt this woman  .

To simply ignore me seems both cold and immature .

If an ex of mine emailed me I would respond . people I know say its a form of control or punishment she is dishing out .

I think there is an element of that as well as not caring , shame and fear (she is paranoid )

[Sunfl0wer]

Why would she ignore the email though ?

She just wanted to see what you had to say.

She did.

It doesn't make sense to us.  It just is what it is.

[dobie]

Why would she ignore the email though ?

She just wanted to see what you had to say.

She did.

It doesn't make sense to us.  It just is what it is.

Is that "normal" behaviour ? I mean would a non behave like that ? She told me when we first broke up she wanted to "stay friends" how she told my bro "she cares about me" .

But then ignores a nice email .  I notice she has never said don't contact me its all about control no doubt if she ever "needs" me again one day .

[Sunfl0wer]

Why would she ignore the email though ?

She just wanted to see what you had to say.

She did.

It doesn't make sense to us.  It just is what it is.

Is that "normal" behaviour ? I mean would a non behave like that ? She told me when we first broke up she wanted to "stay friends" how she told my bro "she cares about me" .

But then ignores a nice email .  I notice she has never said don't contact me its all about control no doubt if she ever "needs" me again one day .

There are shades of grey with both non's and BPD.  No absolutes.  However, after reading around these boards for the past month, I'd say that your instinct on this one is spot on:

" I notice she has never said don't contact me its all about control no doubt if she ever "needs" me again one day ."

[dobie]

Why would she ignore the email though ?

She just wanted to see what you had to say.

She did.

It doesn't make sense to us.  It just is what it is.

Is that "normal" behaviour ? I mean would a non behave like that ? She told me when we first broke up she wanted to "stay friends" how she told my bro "she cares about me" .

But then ignores a nice email .  I notice she has never said don't contact me its all about control no doubt if she ever "needs" me again one day .

There are shades of grey with both non's and BPD.  No absolutes.  However, after reading around these boards for the past month, I'd say that your instinct on this one is spot on:

" I notice she has never said don't contact me its all about control no doubt if she ever "needs" me again one day ."

Thank you sunflower 

I doubt it will happen but if she does I hope I'm in a much better place God willing

[4Years5Months]

With a BPDer, it's always about what they want, and most importantly NEED at that exact moment.

She may miss you tonight, then have something (or someone) happen tomorrow to where she doesn't have to think about you.

My ex has never told me to absolutely NOT contact her again.  She always says "not right now" or "currently."  It's a means of control.  What am I supposed to do, get lucky and reach out to her when she is "ready" to talk to me?  That isn't fair to me, and it isn't fair what your ex is doing to you.

Leave her alone and make her realize what life is like without you in it.

[dobie]

With a BPDer, it's always about what they want, and most importantly NEED at that exact moment.

She may miss you tonight, then have something (or someone) happen tomorrow to where she doesn't have to think about you.

My ex has never told me to absolutely NOT contact her again.  She always says "not right now" or "currently."  It's a means of control.  What am I supposed to do, get lucky and reach out to her when she is "ready" to talk to me?  That isn't fair to me, and it isn't fair what your ex is doing to you.

Leave her alone and make her realize what life is like without you in it.

I think she already has , like she said she should have left a year ago but was cowardly ... .

I'm just bashing my head against a wall

[4Years5Months]

Right now, what would you like to happen with this girl?  What is your ideal situation?

[dobie]

Right now, what would you like to happen with this girl?  What is your ideal situation?

I suppose she apologises and we work things out . I set boundaries and we try again

[fromheeltoheal]

Right now, what would you like to happen with this girl?  What is your ideal situation?

I suppose she apologises and we work things out . I set boundaries and we try again

I don't know your whole story dobie, sorry, just starting here, but did she ever apologize to you before?  Apologizing includes accepting responsibility for your actions, instead of the 'I am who I am' mindset of the standard borderline, a tool used to avoid responsibility and the ensuing shame that would result.  And speaking of boundaries, why do you need her permission to send her an email?  Was that a trend in the relationship, her in control and you submissive?

[dobie]

Right now, what would you like to happen with this girl?  What is your ideal situation?

I suppose she apologises and we work things out . I set boundaries and we try again

I don't know your whole story dobie, sorry, just starting here, but did she ever apologize to you before?  Apologizing includes accepting responsibility for your actions, instead of the 'I am who I am' mindset of the standard borderline, a tool used to avoid responsibility and the ensuing shame that would result.  And speaking of boundaries, why do you need her permission to send her an email?  Was that a trend in the relationship, her in control and you submissive?

She hardly ever apologised once every 10 times she would needle me start a fight and then I had to go make the piece while she played the wounded party . even then a real heartfelt apologies I think I heard maybe 2-3 times in six years

At the end it was conflict after conflict till I gave in so yes I guess I turned into a beta male from bring an alpha at the start

I asked to email in case she blocked me

She is a classic pro victim and covert bully I only realised this after the BU when I started to do my research into her behaviours and look at the FOG I was in .

[fromheeltoheal]

She is a classic pro victim and covert bully I only realised this after the BU when I started to do my research into her behaviours and look at the FOG I was in .

Good for you man!  That's healing talk.

[dobie]

Sent her some links to our songs with a sweet meme .

Stupid but she means a lot to me I'm not going to just forget her and act like she does not exist .

I need to show her I'm still here after the rage and pain has gone .

Her silence is the worst I'd rather she just said go away don't contact me or I care about u but I don't think friends is a good idea .