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Author Topic: Can't figure out if it's love or hate when they go silent  (Read 5300 times)
nickoftime

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« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2015, 06:09:22 AM »

Great responses and insight here.  I'd like to point out NOT to feel too sorry for them.  Aim your compassion more towards yourself.  Yes there is something mentally wrong with them but they know what they are doing is wrong.  Breakups happen but they don't have to be intentionally hurtful and cruel about it.  They know what they're doing and a lot of them get satisfaction out of it. 

I know I tried to cushion the blow by rationalizing maybe my ex is hurting me because he loved me deeply.   But as I came out of the fog and got my self esteem back, I now say if that's love I want no part of it.

I know this time for you is very hard and so much to comprehend and process about what has happened.  In time try to love yourself as much as you love them and make your healing your top priority.
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4Years5Months
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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2015, 09:10:04 AM »

Yeah, a combination of what cosmonaut and nickoftime said.

I know my ex loves me deeply.  You can't fake tears that many times.  But she also broke up with me SEVEN times.  She was absolutely sure each of those seven times that we "couldn't" be together - not that she didn't want to be with me - but that a convoluted life situation that she projected was keeping us from being happy.  And four of those seven times, she replaced me.  She's doing it now.  And she isn't contacting me.  That is her choice.  And it is the wrong one.

BPD or not, it's not fair to me to be treated that way.  I have no doubt that eventually she will reach out to me again.  I've heard she's already fighting with my replacement a month in, and given how she devalued him to me repeatedly for months, I'm not surprised.  And the other times she has recycled, she told me she didn't reach out because it wouldn't be fair to me.  And she's right.  

I know she thinks of me.  I know she wants to talk to me, but still feels that she shouldn't be.  And that is her choice.

All I can control is myself.  :)o I love her?  Absolutely.  But I love MYSELF enough not to put myself in such a terrible situation again.
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Deeno02
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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2015, 09:45:32 AM »

Thats the million dollar question. I dont seem to exist anymore to her and her kids. I just dont know. Recently Ive seen her twice, first time in 7 months and looked right through me. I guess it is what it is. Not sure why, but it is.
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dobie
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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2015, 12:06:17 PM »

Forget BPD for a moment how many of us are in contact with our ex's after a BU?

Or stayed friends ? I have no problem with any of my nonpwBPD ex's but I don't see or talk to them or them me .

People tend to just want to forget and move on after a BU .

Sad but true .
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JRT
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« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2015, 01:22:30 PM »

Forget BPD for a moment how many of us are in contact with our ex's after a BU?

Or stayed friends ? I have no problem with any of my nonpwBPD ex's but I don't see or talk to them or them me .

People tend to just want to forget and move on after a BU .

Sad but true .

I'll have to disagree with this at least from my own perspective.

While there has always been a period of acrimony as part of and subsequent to a breakup, I have managed to remain friends with almost all of my SO's including my ex wife. It's always perplexed me at how people could express love to one another and then just shut it off at some point. I have always been saddened that I could not build a life with some of them but I really couldn't understand how I could shut off the feelings that attracted me to begin with. I felt that the people who could move on so easily may not have loved their SO's to begin with... .
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ShadowIntheNight
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« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2015, 04:06:45 PM »

Forget BPD for a moment how many of us are in contact with our ex's after a BU?

Or stayed friends ? I have no problem with any of my nonpwBPD ex's but I don't see or talk to them or them me .

People tend to just want to forget and move on after a BU .

Sad but true .

I'll have to disagree with this at least from my own perspective.

While there has always been a period of acrimony as part of and subsequent to a breakup, I have managed to remain friends with almost all of my SO's including my ex wife. It's always perplexed me at how people could express love to one another and then just shut it off at some point. I have always been saddened that I could not build a life with some of them but I really couldn't understand how I could shut off the feelings that attracted me to begin with. I felt that the people who could move on so easily may not have loved their SO's to begin with... .

I agree JRT. It's one thing to end a relationship where one says this is too much, or whatever reason they give. For me, except in one case in the past (not including current uBPDexgf), there was usually a conversation about not being together anymore. Acrimonious or not.

But in both mine and JRT's case our exes just disappeared without explanation. Neither of us had any indication our ex was unhappy, engulfed, afraid of abandonment or anything other than we would be seeing or speaking to them the next day. Until we weren't. And in my case, when I called to find out what the heck was going on, she wouldn't pick up her phone.  I got sent straight to voicemail. She had no intention of speaking to me. I believe in JRT's case he was talked to by the police for trying to contact her.

I can't tell you to this day what her reason was for her actions. At this point, I highly doubt she could tell me

I'm an adult. I can let go of a relationship that has been awful and clear both parties need to be away from one another. But after 9.5 years caring, supporting, and loving my exgf and her kids, I DESERVE an explanation if for no other reason than for the humanity of me and her. We aren't savages who just walk away. My ex is a therapist, she knew what she was doing. Why she couldn't tell me is still quite the mystery.
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dobie
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« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2015, 04:40:44 PM »

Yes that's different I meant silent AFTER an explanation and the BU .

Mine gave her reasons , kept lc till she got all her stuff and a bit after than due to a few drunken texts from me when complete NC
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hurting300
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« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2015, 05:40:14 PM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.
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dobie
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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2015, 06:06:11 PM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.

Apologies for the confusion
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hurting300
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« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2015, 06:15:18 PM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.

Apologies for the confusion

no no it's ok man.
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JRT
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« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2015, 10:13:10 PM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.

I'm confused by this... .
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2015, 11:27:01 PM »

I'll have to disagree with this at least from my own perspective.

While there has always been a period of acrimony as part of and subsequent to a breakup, I have managed to remain friends with almost all of my SO's including my ex wife. It's always perplexed me at how people could express love to one another and then just shut it off at some point. I have always been saddened that I could not build a life with some of them but I really couldn't understand how I could shut off the feelings that attracted me to begin with. I felt that the people who could move on so easily may not have loved their SO's to begin with... .

I agree JRT. It's one thing to end a relationship where one says this is too much, or whatever reason they give. For me, except in one case in the past (not including current uBPDexgf), there was usually a conversation about not being together anymore. Acrimonious or not.

But in both mine and JRT's case our exes just disappeared without explanation. Neither of us had any indication our ex was unhappy, engulfed, afraid of abandonment or anything other than we would be seeing or speaking to them the next day. Until we weren't. And in my case, when I called to find out what the heck was going on, she wouldn't pick up her phone.  I got sent straight to voicemail. She had no intention of speaking to me. I believe in JRT's case he was talked to by the police for trying to contact her.

I can't tell you to this day what her reason was for her actions. At this point, I highly doubt she could tell me

I'm an adult. I can let go of a relationship that has been awful and clear both parties need to be away from one another. But after 9.5 years caring, supporting, and loving my exgf and her kids, I DESERVE an explanation if for no other reason than for the humanity of me and her. We aren't savages who just walk away. My ex is a therapist, she knew what she was doing. Why she couldn't tell me is still quite the mystery.

I am with both of you.  Although, I have been guilty of doing this once and it is something I have bitterly regretted.  Before my BPD ex I was in another long term relationship for 8 years.  We had dated since we were almost kids really, and we just ended up not being right for each other.  We are both glad today that we didn't get married and we both think it would have been a mistake, even as we still care for one another very much.  Anyway, when I began to date my BPD ex, she had a major issue with me still being in contact with my older ex, even as absolutely nothing romantic or shady was going on at all.   My BPD ex felt extremely threatened by my older ex.   Well, one night still fairly early in our relationship she absolutely exploded at me over a text I received from my other ex - a completely innocent text just saying hi that I didn't hide from my BPD ex in any way.  She basically told me either my old ex goes or she goes.   Had I known about BPD I think I would have handled this much better than I did.  Anyway, I panicked, and I told my BPD ex that I would stop having anything to do with my older ex.  I felt terrible about it, but I loved my BPD ex and I felt that I owed that to her in a relationship.  And I did it.  I told my older ex that I was sorry, but I was in a new relationship and we can't stay in touch anymore, and I asked her to please not contact me anymore.   That was a terrible thing to do, and I deeply regret it.  I know it hurt my older ex.  To her great credit, she never did contact me, just as I'd asked her to do.

One of the positive things that has come of this breakup has been that I apologized to my older ex and we have a solid friendship again.  I would never agree to cutting her out of my life a second time.  I wouldn't even do that for my BPD ex, and I would do just about anything for her.  But it's wrong to discard people and it's wrong to abandon people.  If someone is toxic that's one thing, but if someone has done nothing to deserve it, it's just plain wrong to throw them out of your life.  It's cruel.  Having been on the receiving end of my ex having cut me off in a very cold and instantaneous manner, has really cemented that for me.  I'll never make that mistake again.
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JRT
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« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2015, 11:32:48 PM »

[/quote]
I am with both of you.  Although, I have been guilty of doing this once and it is something I have bitterly regretted.  Before my BPD ex I was in another long term relationship for 8 years.  We had dated since we were almost kids really, and we just ended up not being right for each other.  We are both glad today that we didn't get married and we both think it would have been a mistake, even as we still care for one another very much.  Anyway, when I began to date my BPD ex, she had a major issue with me still being in contact with my older ex, even as absolutely nothing romantic or shady was going on at all.   My BPD ex felt extremely threatened by my older ex.   Well, one night still fairly early in our relationship she absolutely exploded at me over a text I received from my other ex - a completely innocent text just saying hi that I didn't hide from my BPD ex in any way.  She basically told me either my old ex goes or she goes.   Had I known about BPD I think I would have handled this much better than I did.  Anyway, I panicked, and I told my BPD ex that I would stop having anything to do with my older ex.  I felt terrible about it, but I loved my BPD ex and I felt that I owed that to her in a relationship.  And I did it.  I told my older ex that I was sorry, but I was in a new relationship and we can't stay in touch anymore, and I asked her to please not contact me anymore.   That was a terrible thing to do, and I deeply regret it.  I know it hurt my older ex.  To her great credit, she never did contact me, just as I'd asked her to do.

One of the positive things that has come of this breakup has been that I apologized to my older ex and we have a solid friendship again.  I would never agree to cutting her out of my life a second time.  I wouldn't even do that for my BPD ex, and I would do just about anything for her.  But it's wrong to discard people and it's wrong to abandon people.  If someone is toxic that's one thing, but if someone has done nothing to deserve it, it's just plain wrong to throw them out of your life.  It's cruel.  Having been on the receiving end of my ex having cut me off in a very cold and instantaneous manner, has really cemented that for me.  I'll never make that mistake again.[/quote]
My BPDex did the same thing regarding my older ex... .I stood my ground but gently so... .the older ex is involved at my daughters school so there was NO cutting her out... .they ended up meeting one another and actually were FB friends at one point (the older ex reached out to my BPD ex)... .
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Infared
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« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2015, 04:04:53 AM »

I think it is tough to tell. Remember, Cluster B includes BPD, sociopaths, narcs. Often a person could have multiple disorders. So, I think it really depends on exactly what disordered was triggered and why. So, I think it is really really tough to tell what you are dealing with me... .but in the end, does it really matter?

In the end, lots of things don't matter. In the end we all just die so why wonder about anything? So maybe it doesn't matter, but it matters to me and perhaps to other who still have deep pain when they can't pin a cause as to why their lives have been disrupted so terrible after years or decades. It matters for me because I care about why I was so mistreated when I can't lay finger to anything other than "she may be ill." It matters to me because I have to figure out a different life after a decade and I have no idea what that life will even begin to look like. It matters to me because I can't begin to imagine someone speaking to me in a romantic way ever again and not believe that they are probably lying to me. So no, maybe it doesn't matter in some people's lives. But it matters in mine.

I have all the pain, anguish and sadness in my heart, too. For years now.

But... .I know I will get no answers from the disordered person who treated me so abusively.

I will not understand anything about how her mind works... they make no rational sense. I just had/have to let go. Entirely.

I had/have to look into myself and my God for any chance of moving forward.

They do not know why they do anything. I will get no clue or understanding from this person. Only more turmoil.

For me there is only acceptance that that is a very painful place for me and that I just need to move away from it. The person is mentally ill. I have come to a place where it just doesn't matter why they did anything. I just need to love me and move on. That's life.
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hurting300
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« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2015, 05:15:00 AM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.

I'm confused by this... .

why ?
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JRT
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« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2015, 11:25:46 AM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.

I'm confused by this... .

why ?

It IS silent treatment no matter what they tell you... .mine texted me to tell me its over and moved out only three weeks after selling her furniture and moving in. Only a week after ordering our wedding rings, etc., etc... She cut me off and refused to speak with me. Her breaking up with me did NOT provide any thing even remotely close to closure. This behavior VERY MUCH is the silent treatment: you can't get more textbook than that. Yours too.
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2015, 12:49:01 PM »

Rewriting history was a major coping mechanism that ex employed to protect himself from experiencing shame.  He believed what he rewrote.  He didn't have a balanced view of events. Pleasant events were exaggerated. Unpleasant events were rewritten in his favor.   

Silent treatment enabled him to maintain an unbalanced view so that he could avoid the facts and maintain his distorted perspective.  That distorted perspective was connected to how he viewed himself, and how he wanted others to view him.  It was a fantasy world where he was giving, good, and victim.  If he didn't insulate himself he risked being reminded of facts that were too painful for him to process. 

There's no doubt that silent treatment is an abusive act.  How we choose to experience it is up to us. 

It can hurt like heck, or it can be experienced as a blessing and an opportunity to detach. 

Happy healing... .

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hurting300
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« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2015, 02:47:34 PM »

You can't call it silent treatment if they tell you it's over. They broke up and give you closure. Mine vanished without a word. That's silent treatment abuse.

I'm confused by this... .

why ?

It IS silent treatment no matter what they tell you... .mine texted me to tell me its over and moved out only three weeks after selling her furniture and moving in. Only a week after ordering our wedding rings, etc., etc... She cut me off and refused to speak with me. Her breaking up with me did NOT provide any thing even remotely close to closure. This behavior VERY MUCH is the silent treatment: you can't get more textbook than that. Yours too.

If she tells you, do not call me it's over... you can't say that's abuse
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hurting300
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« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2015, 03:21:47 PM »

Guys... .Silent Treatment vs No Contact.      No contact is when someone breaks up with you and TELLS you (do not contact me it's over)... .Silent Treatment, is a SUDDEN cut off of all communication without warning (disappearing act)... that is stonewalling or shunning. What ever you call it that is actually what the difference is.
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Alberto
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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2015, 04:32:16 PM »

In my opinion when they disappear they've been pondering about the relationship for a while, even if you don't notice.

They change opinions and feelings pathologically fast, they were holding on because you were good to them, but there's a point when they can't stand the constant struggle of emotions, they leave without a trace because they know it's not logical, it doesn't make sense and can't be explained. Dwelling on the situation would be too damaging for their fragile ego so they scape.

I too believe that the harshest the cut out, the more they loved you.
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hurting300
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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2015, 05:06:42 PM »

In my opinion when they disappear they've been pondering about the relationship for a while, even if you don't notice.

They change opinions and feelings pathologically fast, they were holding on because you were good to them, but there's a point when they can't stand the constant struggle of emotions, they leave without a trace because they know it's not logical, it doesn't make sense and can't be explained. Dwelling on the situation would be too damaging for their fragile ego so they scape.

I too believe that the harshest the cut out, the more they loved you.

I've read that A LOT. the blacker you are the more important you are. But I've not seen my child in over a year. She must really love me.
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2015, 08:57:53 PM »

If she tells you, do not call me it's over... you can't say that's abuse

I disagree.  I think it very much is abuse.  It's abandonment which is one of the cruelest forms of abuse and something that we all have a primary fear regarding, whether we are BPD or not.  Every infant fears that it's cries will be ignored and it will not be cared for.  It is one of the first fears we ever know.  Perhaps only death is a more fundamental fear.  There are reasons that pwBPD do this, of course, but the behavior itself is indeed abuse and it is incredibly damaging.  It is one of the reasons that serious trauma can result from these relationships, and why so many of us have such difficulty in healing.

I would suggest that it's abusive in nonBPD relationships too, but that's a topic for another discussion.

In my opinion when they disappear they've been pondering about the relationship for a while, even if you don't notice.

They change opinions and feelings pathologically fast, they were holding on because you were good to them, but there's a point when they can't stand the constant struggle of emotions, they leave without a trace because they know it's not logical, it doesn't make sense and can't be explained. Dwelling on the situation would be too damaging for their fragile ego so they scape.

I too believe that the harshest the cut out, the more they loved you.

I agree with all of that.  I do think that they have been having a secret internal struggle for some time before they abandon.  Something that they are too afraid and too ashamed to discuss.  One of the things that is noticed over and over in the literature on BPD is how toxic shame is for them, and I do think that they experience not only intense pain but also profound shame about ending the relationships, as you say.

Every pwBPD is different, but I do believe that overall the more intensely they felt about the relationship, the more extreme their behavior in leaving it.   It is the intensity of emotion that is the trigger, after all.

Anyway, good points.  Thanks for sharing.

I've read that A LOT. the blacker you are the more important you are. But I've not seen my child in over a year. She must really love me.

I sincerely believe that's the case.  She really did love you immensely.  So much that she had no idea how to cope with the overwhelming emotions it evoked.  I know it doesn't cure the pain, but hopefully that knowledge helps you a little.  You are loveable, and you were loved.
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« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2015, 09:17:38 PM »

If she tells you, do not call me it's over... you can't say that's abuse

I disagree.  I think it very much is abuse.  It's abandonment which is one of the cruelest forms of abuse and something that we all have a primary fear regarding, whether we are BPD or not.  Every infant fears that it's cries will be ignored and it will not be cared for.  It is one of the first fears we ever know.  Perhaps only death is a more fundamental fear.  There are reasons that pwBPD do this, of course, but the behavior itself is indeed abuse and it is incredibly damaging.  It is one of the reasons that serious trauma can result from these relationships, and why so many of us have such difficulty in healing.

I would suggest that it's abusive in nonBPD relationships too, but that's a topic for another discussion.

In my opinion when they disappear they've been pondering about the relationship for a while, even if you don't notice.

They change opinions and feelings pathologically fast, they were holding on because you were good to them, but there's a point when they can't stand the constant struggle of emotions, they leave without a trace because they know it's not logical, it doesn't make sense and can't be explained. Dwelling on the situation would be too damaging for their fragile ego so they scape.

I too believe that the harshest the cut out, the more they loved you.

I agree with all of that.  I do think that they have been having a secret internal struggle for some time before they abandon.  Something that they are too afraid and too ashamed to discuss.  One of the things that is noticed over and over in the literature on BPD is how toxic shame is for them, and I do think that they experience not only intense pain but also profound shame about ending the relationships, as you say.

Every pwBPD is different, but I do believe that overall the more intensely they felt about the relationship, the more extreme their behavior in leaving it.   It is the intensity of emotion that is the trigger, after all.

Anyway, good points.  Thanks for sharing.

I've read that A LOT. the blacker you are the more important you are. But I've not seen my child in over a year. She must really love me.

I sincerely believe that's the case.  She really did love you immensely.  So much that she had no idea how to cope with the overwhelming emotions it evoked.  I know it doesn't cure the pain, but hopefully that knowledge helps you a little.  You are loveable, and you were loved.

I'm sorry sir, but I respectfully disagree. When someone clearly tells you not to call them it's not abuse. I wouldn't be here had she at least told me. Because if that's the case technically everyone here is abusing the pwBPD with no contact. Huge difference between them telling you and not telling you. But I do respect your opinion.
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« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2015, 09:28:00 PM »

I'm sorry sir, but I respectfully disagree. When someone clearly tells you not to call them it's not abuse. I wouldn't be here had she at least told me. Because if that's the case technically everyone here is abusing the pwBPD with no contact. Huge difference between them telling you and not telling you. But I do respect your opinion.

I am not sure that it fundamentally changes anything if someone tells you that they are abandoning you or doesn't tell you - it's still abandonment.  Perhaps we are not talking about the same behavior, though.  When I say abandonment I mean when a partner (BPD or not) abruptly leaves a relationship without any attempts to reconcile or resolve any issues.  Often that is what BPD partners do when they are triggered - they run.  Sometimes they say they're running, sometimes they blame you for their running, and sometimes they just don't say anything.  In the end, it is all still abandonment.  Do you not agree with that?

I get how much it must have hurt to have your ex simply disappear into thin air, but I think you might be surprised just how little comfort it is to have your supposed soul mate call you and tell you it's over, no there's nothing to can do to change it, but we can still be friends, but then never hear from them again... .for absolutely no rational reason at all.  I've had that happen to me, and it provides no closure, man.  It will mess you up.
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Invictus01
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« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2015, 09:42:40 PM »

I get how much it must have hurt to have your ex simply disappear into thin air, but I think you might be surprised just how little comfort it is to have your supposed soul mate call you and tell you it's over, no there's nothing to can do to change it, but we can still be friends, but then never hear from them again... .for absolutely no rational reason at all.  I've had that happen to me, and it provides no closure, man.  It will mess you up.

Um, yeah... .my ex ended our relationship with a 3 sentence text where she called me her friend and ended it with a smilie face. No, "It's over", nothing like that. Just decided for me that we are friends now. Just like that, out of nowhere and went silent on me. My brain just about exploded while I was trying to reconcile what the heck just happened to me, until I was told to read up on BPD... .
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JRT
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« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2015, 10:00:50 PM »

I'm with invictus and cosmonaut in this one... .Mine texted me effectively saying, 'its over'... .that was  6 months ago where I have not spoken with her since... .the least thing we said to each other was, 'good night, I love you'. We had never argued and rarely even disagreed; does her text give me closure (or should it)? Hell no, not even close. Those of us that have had something similar happen DESERVE so much more towards the goal of closure just buy virtue of having been a loyal and committed partner to the r/s. In the absence of real closure for us, it is not outside the bounds of being reasonable for us to DEMAND closure even if its in the form of us calling, emailing, texting or whatever. A unilateral cutting off is not acceptable protocol BPD or not.
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Turkish
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« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2015, 10:15:01 PM »

Staff only

It's worthwhile to process the feelings of being cut off, so coldly in a lot of instances. This thread, however, has reached its post limit. Please feel free to start a new topic to continue the discussion.
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