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Author Topic: Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat  (Read 4251 times)
Heldfast
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« on: April 01, 2015, 10:23:23 AM »

Has anyone on leaving board been able to recover their relationship, and knowing what they know now, make it work better? I've been replaced, she has moved far away, her family still talks to me, likes me, hates replacement, still says they're hoping for me. But from ex of fiancée I am cut off. Has anyone beat the odds and found happiness in it?
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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 10:27:26 AM »

You might want to post this question on the "undecided" and "staying" boards?... .
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mitatsu
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2015, 11:58:02 AM »

Not for long or happily by all accounts... .check the stories on the staying board... .poor souls 
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FracturedReality

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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2015, 04:03:29 PM »

Not for long or happily by all accounts... .check the stories on the staying board... .poor souls 

poor souls indeed.



I kind of liked my explanation of it from a similar thread:

being successful in a relationship with a BPD is like being "successful" in rebuilding a totaled car. Sure, you have your 67 Challenger back, but it has cost you more than buying a brand new Hellcat,  and there's still that engine knocking you need to take care of, you already need to tune the suspension,  sometimes it doesn't start, and sometimes the engine will ping when you hit the gas (BUT SUCCESS IT WORKS [technically!])
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Infern0
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2015, 05:22:34 PM »

Quite funny because when I was replaced with no warning the first time after 5 months of being idealized I thought I'd somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Regardless,  I did "get her back" after being discarded and I am able to periodically get reidealized but the initial honeymoon phase will never return. Also once you know about BPD it's never the same,  you end up almost waiting to be stabbed in the back,  it's not fun.  I'd recommend a  "fwb " type deal at most with them.
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Infern0
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2015, 05:26:37 PM »

Oh. And if you want your BPD back here's the recipe

No contact

Wait until she calls you

Answer

Act like you are super happy with your life,  tell her you hope she's doing well and no hard feelings.  Tell her that you don't see her the same way now,  but you do still care. She's kind of like a sister to you,  maybe you could be friends.

That should be enough to activate the pull phase,  after that your on your own.

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cosmonaut
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 05:57:32 PM »

There are cases where BPD relationships can work, although it does depend somewhat on how you define working.  It will never be easy, and it will never be a "normal" relationship, but if both partners can manage to make the necessary changes an equilibrium can form, if perhaps not true stability.  You can expect that there will at times be dysregulations and other problems even under the best of circumstances.  However, if you really love your partner and accept them as they are, I can certainly understand.  I can't say I wouldn't give my all in a second chance with my ex.

It's important to realize, however, that you can't force this to happen.  There is nothing you can do to get her back, and trying to do so will likely only drive her further away.  The ball is entirely in her court.  You must realize that you are a powerful trigger right now, and she is not able to handle interacting with you right now.  This is not in any way your fault - it is entirely the disorder, but it is still the reality of things.  You can only wait, and it's your decision as to how long you want to do so.  There is simply to know when she might contact you.  While it is more likely than not she will at some point contact you, it might be quite some time, and it's possible she may never.  I'm only telling you this to be completely honest with you, so you have realistic expectations.

The best thing you can be doing right now is working on yourself.  If she returns, and you want to be with her, you are going to have to be an incredibly strong man.  You are going to have to be as patient as a saint.  You will have to be a master communicator.  You will have to be her rock.  You will have to be able to provide the soothing and nurturing she can't provide to herself.  You will have to be a hero, my man.  even if she never comes back, you will be such a man if you can become this.
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Invictus01
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 06:11:47 PM »

There are cases where BPD relationships can work, although it does depend somewhat on how you define working.  It will never be easy, and it will never be a "normal" relationship, but if both partners can manage to make the necessary changes an equilibrium can form, if perhaps not true stability.  You can expect that there will at times be dysregulations and other problems even under the best of circumstances.  However, if you really love your partner and accept them as they are, I can certainly understand.  I can't say I wouldn't give my all in a second chance with my ex.

It's important to realize, however, that you can't force this to happen.  There is nothing you can do to get her back, and trying to do so will likely only drive her further away.  The ball is entirely in her court.  You must realize that you are a powerful trigger right now, and she is not able to handle interacting with you right now.  This is not in any way your fault - it is entirely the disorder, but it is still the reality of things.  You can only wait, and it's your decision as to how long you want to do so.  There is simply to know when she might contact you.  While it is more likely than not she will at some point contact you, it might be quite some time, and it's possible she may never.  I'm only telling you this to be completely honest with you, so you have realistic expectations.

The best thing you can be doing right now is working on yourself.  If she returns, and you want to be with her, you are going to have to be an incredibly strong man.  You are going to have to be as patient as a saint.  You will have to be a master communicator.  You will have to be her rock.  You will have to be able to provide the soothing and nurturing she can't provide to herself.  You will have to be a hero, my man.  even if she never comes back, you will be such a man if you can become this.

I just can't see how a one sided relationship like this could possibly be called a victory. I might be missing something... .
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2015, 06:38:15 PM »

I just can't see how a one sided relationship like this could possibly be called a victory. I might be missing something... .

It depends on what your conditions of victory are.  If you truly love someone and want to be with them, then I certainly see it as a victory.   It's an incredibly personal decision, and one everyone here has to make for themselves.  I don't think there can be one right or wrong answer.

You are right that it will never be an equal relationship, however.  But if you love someone, then that may not really matter.
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Heldfast
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 06:42:28 PM »

Cosmonaut, if you don't have a career in motivational speaking or as a writer, you're in the wrong field. I have truly appreciated so many of your posts. Whoever she was, she was a damn fool.
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hurting300
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2015, 07:03:15 PM »

Oh. And if you want your BPD back here's the recipe

No contact

Wait until she calls you

Answer

Act like you are super happy with your life,  tell her you hope she's doing well and no hard feelings.  Tell her that you don't see her the same way now,  but you do still care. She's kind of like a sister to you,  maybe you could be friends.

That should be enough to activate the pull phase,  after that your on your own.

what if she's the one who went no contact without warning a year ago Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) .
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2015, 07:26:59 PM »

I feel like I snatched victory from the jaws of defeat the day I decided not to recycle any more and to go NC. 9 months later I haven't changed my mind.
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Reecer1588
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2015, 07:27:32 PM »

Oh. And if you want your BPD back here's the recipe

No contact

Wait until she calls you

Answer

Act like you are super happy with your life,  tell her you hope she's doing well and no hard feelings.  Tell her that you don't see her the same way now,  but you do still care. She's kind of like a sister to you,  maybe you could be friends.

That should be enough to activate the pull phase,  after that your on your own.

what if she's the one who went no contact without warning a year ago Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) .

This. This. I would give an arm just to hear something from my ex
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Invictus01
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2015, 07:40:35 PM »

I just can't see how a one sided relationship like this could possibly be called a victory. I might be missing something... .

It depends on what your conditions of victory are.  If you truly love someone and want to be with them, then I certainly see it as a victory.   It's an incredibly personal decision, and one everyone here has to make for themselves.  I don't think there can be one right or wrong answer.

You are right that it will never be an equal relationship, however.  But if you love someone, then that may not really matter.

That's just my personal opinion. There is only one way this could possibly work - the BPD person admits to having a problem and goes into the treatment that requires about 5-7 years to show results, if it shows any results. This rarely happens. It takes two to have a relationship. A BPD person is really never fully there mentally for it. People do a lot of things in the name of love but this is going into what amounts to the constant emotional abuse (whether it is intentional or not) and being fully aware of it. Personally, it is tough for me to understand... .
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2015, 07:41:29 PM »


what if she's the one who went no contact without warning a year ago Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) . [/quote]
Logically one would think she'll never make contact again. But she's not logical. My ex filed false charges against me, mounted a distortion campaign against me, and told anyone who would listen that I was physically abusive and that she was afraid of me. And she was the one who returned to stalk me. Makes no sense, I know; but neither do they. Their unpredictability is predictable. I find that many seem to have a knack for initiating contact after their respective former partners/victims have turned the corner and no longer want the chaos in their lives.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2015, 07:47:00 PM »

The best thing you can be doing right now is working on yourself.  If she returns, and you want to be with her, you are going to have to be an incredibly strong man.  You are going to have to be as patient as a saint.  You will have to be a master communicator.  You will have to be her rock.  You will have to be able to provide the soothing and nurturing she can't provide to herself.  You will have to be a hero, my man.  even if she never comes back, you will be such a man if you can become this.

If you become all these things, then you can find someone worthy of you.

There are many fish in the sea.

Just reading this makes me want to walk a block to the corner bar and hit on some desperate looking woman just to reinforce this in my mind!
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raisins3142
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2015, 07:52:50 PM »

I just can't see how a one sided relationship like this could possibly be called a victory. I might be missing something... .

It depends on what your conditions of victory are.  If you truly love someone and want to be with them, then I certainly see it as a victory.   It's an incredibly personal decision, and one everyone here has to make for themselves.  I don't think there can be one right or wrong answer.

You are right that it will never be an equal relationship, however.  But if you love someone, then that may not really matter.

That's just my personal opinion. There is only one way this could possibly work - the BPD person admits to having a problem and goes into the treatment that requires about 5-7 years to show results, if it shows any results. This rarely happens. It takes two to have a relationship. A BPD person is really never fully there mentally for it. People do a lot of things in the name of love but this is going into what amounts to the constant emotional abuse (whether it is intentional or not) and being fully aware of it. Personally, it is tough for me to understand... .

It's amazing more don't come out of denial and seek help.

My ex's "schtick" went like this: 1. she admitted she was "crazy", 2. she then kinda redefined that as being passionate or something like that, 3. she stated that she was okay with her crazy, and 4. she just needed someone that could love and accept her as she is (and have that person not running screaming in a few months or be devalued and pushed away by her).

There is an entire industry/hobby manufacturing incredibly shallow bumper stick style sayings for these folks to share and put up on their refrigerators to justify their entire lack of self perception and true empathy for others.  In fact, their lack of metacognition is sold to them as a state of enlightenment!

I'm perplexed how a mentally ill person can justify such a "take it or leave it" attitude.  I'm much higher functioning, and I work to improve myself and try to see myself realistically and admit fault, etc.

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cosmonaut
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2015, 08:14:15 PM »

That's just my personal opinion. There is only one way this could possibly work - the BPD person admits to having a problem and goes into the treatment that requires about 5-7 years to show results, if it shows any results. This rarely happens. It takes two to have a relationship. A BPD person is really never fully there mentally for it. People do a lot of things in the name of love but this is going into what amounts to the constant emotional abuse (whether it is intentional or not) and being fully aware of it. Personally, it is tough for me to understand... .

You're right.  For a BPD relationship to work both partners are going to have to change and the pwBPD certainly has their share of changes to make.  And it will be very hard for them - probably much harder than for us.  My hat is off to any pwBPD that has the courage and strength to do that.  It takes real grit.

That said, there is simply no right or wrong answer as to whether of not to continue a relationship with a BPD partner.  Every relationship is unique and every person is unique.  BPD doesn't change that.  Some partners are more toxic than others.  My own ex wasn't an abuser.  She certainly had her own issues, but I don't believe she is a toxic person.  Matters of the heart do not play by the rules of logic.  We love who we love.  We just do.  And sometimes love requires sacrifice and commitment.  If someone chooses to remain in a BPD relationship, I support them.  Just as I would support someone that chooses to leave.

I understand what you are saying, Invictus, and you are not wrong.  But there is another side too, and I don't think that side is wrong either.
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hurting300
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2015, 08:27:53 PM »


what if she's the one who went no contact without warning a year ago Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) .

Logically one would think she'll never make contact again. But she's not logical. My ex filed false charges against me, mounted a distortion campaign against me, and told anyone who would listen that I was physically abusive and that she was afraid of me. And she was the one who returned to stalk me. Makes no sense, I know; but neither do they. Their unpredictability is predictable. I find that many seem to have a knack for initiating contact after their respective former partners/victims have turned the corner and no longer want the chaos in their lives.[/quote]
Right on my friend. Mine stalked and drove by my house a lot after she disappeared. Its truly crazy. I'm pretty much detached now. Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of the disappearance And other than missing my baby I honestly feel nothing for her.
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Infern0
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2015, 12:44:36 AM »

Oh. And if you want your BPD back here's the recipe

No contact

Wait until she calls you

Answer

Act like you are super happy with your life,  tell her you hope she's doing well and no hard feelings.  Tell her that you don't see her the same way now,  but you do still care. She's kind of like a sister to you,  maybe you could be friends.

That should be enough to activate the pull phase,  after that your on your own.

what if she's the one who went no contact without warning a year ago Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) .

Can't comment. Mine never goes away for long.
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2015, 05:34:48 AM »

Quite funny because when I was replaced with no warning the first time after 5 months of being idealized I thought I'd somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Regardless,  I did "get her back" after being discarded and I am able to periodically get reidealized but the initial honeymoon phase will never return. Also once you know about BPD it's never the same,  you end up almost waiting to be stabbed in the back,  it's not fun.  I'd recommend a  "fwb " type deal at most with them.

That's a common statement on pick up artist sites, referring to the porn star quality sex.

Again, not to invalidate you, but these type of deals do not work well with pwBPD. Those who are vulnerable(that covers all of us), will be sucked back into the drama. Furthermore, taking advantage of mentally ill woman with no boundaries, reinforcing their unhealthy objectification of themselves and others, is far from ethical. You will take one angle of the drama triangle, which usually leads to harming the other party involved, and eventually yourself(you expereinced that from first hand).  

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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 05:36:44 AM »

I feel like I snatched victory from the jaws of defeat the day I decided not to recycle any more and to go NC. 9 months later I haven't changed my mind.

That^ Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

The only winning move is not to play.
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Deeno02
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2015, 07:20:50 AM »

Victory, for me, is staying as far away as I can. As much as it pains me to see her at Volleyball and remember what used to be, I dont need her chaos or drama. Nor do I need the abuse. I would never take her back, nor would I enter into a FWB with her. Nothing good would ever come from it. I barely survived the first go around.
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2015, 07:39:47 AM »

Heldfast, I agree totally, you have helped me understand the craziness Cosmonaut, thank you.
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Infern0
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2015, 05:38:50 PM »

Quite funny because when I was replaced with no warning the first time after 5 months of being idealized I thought I'd somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Regardless,  I did "get her back" after being discarded and I am able to periodically get reidealized but the initial honeymoon phase will never return. Also once you know about BPD it's never the same,  you end up almost waiting to be stabbed in the back,  it's not fun.  I'd recommend a  "fwb " type deal at most with them.

That's a common statement on pick up artist sites, referring to the porn star quality sex.

Again, not to invalidate you, but these type of deals do not work well with pwBPD. Those who are vulnerable(that covers all of us), will be sucked back into the drama. Furthermore, taking advantage of mentally ill woman with no boundaries, reinforcing their unhealthy objectification of themselves and others, is far from ethical. You will take one angle of the drama triangle, which usually leads to harming the other party involved, and eventually yourself(you expereinced that from first hand).  

There are certain people out there,  and I place myself in this category who have been through the ringer so much with their BPD that they can "survive" the gaslighting. My first "breakup" nearly killed me but the second one I had a couple of miserable days then I was fine again.

I am not sure on the ethics of using game on a BPD and just casually hooking up with them but I don't subscribe to the view that they are completely out of control and don't know what they are doing.

If someone is strong enough to remove themselves from the drama and can just enjoy some good fun with a BPD and get out of dodge when devaluation kicks in then it's up to them.  I wouldn't recommend it for people who don't learn and will continue to white knight,  however.
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Reecer1588
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2015, 07:30:47 PM »

Quite funny because when I was replaced with no warning the first time after 5 months of being idealized I thought I'd somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Regardless,  I did "get her back" after being discarded and I am able to periodically get reidealized but the initial honeymoon phase will never return. Also once you know about BPD it's never the same,  you end up almost waiting to be stabbed in the back,  it's not fun.  I'd recommend a  "fwb " type deal at most with them.

That's a common statement on pick up artist sites, referring to the porn star quality sex.

Again, not to invalidate you, but these type of deals do not work well with pwBPD. Those who are vulnerable(that covers all of us), will be sucked back into the drama. Furthermore, taking advantage of mentally ill woman with no boundaries, reinforcing their unhealthy objectification of themselves and others, is far from ethical. You will take one angle of the drama triangle, which usually leads to harming the other party involved, and eventually yourself(you expereinced that from first hand).  

There are certain people out there,  and I place myself in this category who have been through the ringer so much with their BPD that they can "survive" the gaslighting. My first "breakup" nearly killed me but the second one I had a couple of miserable days then I was fine again.

I am not sure on the ethics of using game on a BPD and just casually hooking up with them but I don't subscribe to the view that they are completely out of control and don't know what they are doing.

If someone is strong enough to remove themselves from the drama and can just enjoy some good fun with a BPD and get out of dodge when devaluation kicks in then it's up to them.  I wouldn't recommend it for people who don't learn and will continue to white knight,  however.

I believe that some of what you are saying here is purely chauvinistic, and it's distressing that you have this mentality.
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Infern0
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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2015, 08:03:29 PM »

Quite funny because when I was replaced with no warning the first time after 5 months of being idealized I thought I'd somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Regardless,  I did "get her back" after being discarded and I am able to periodically get reidealized but the initial honeymoon phase will never return. Also once you know about BPD it's never the same,  you end up almost waiting to be stabbed in the back,  it's not fun.  I'd recommend a  "fwb " type deal at most with them.

That's a common statement on pick up artist sites, referring to the porn star quality sex.

Again, not to invalidate you, but these type of deals do not work well with pwBPD. Those who are vulnerable(that covers all of us), will be sucked back into the drama. Furthermore, taking advantage of mentally ill woman with no boundaries, reinforcing their unhealthy objectification of themselves and others, is far from ethical. You will take one angle of the drama triangle, which usually leads to harming the other party involved, and eventually yourself(you expereinced that from first hand).  

There are certain people out there,  and I place myself in this category who have been through the ringer so much with their BPD that they can "survive" the gaslighting. My first "breakup" nearly killed me but the second one I had a couple of miserable days then I was fine again.

I am not sure on the ethics of using game on a BPD and just casually hooking up with them but I don't subscribe to the view that they are completely out of control and don't know what they are doing.

If someone is strong enough to remove themselves from the drama and can just enjoy some good fun with a BPD and get out of dodge when devaluation kicks in then it's up to them.  I wouldn't recommend it for people who don't learn and will continue to white knight,  however.

I believe that some of what you are saying here is purely chauvinistic, and it's distressing that you have this mentality.

I don't agree with it being chauvinism.  I spent a year being used up by a BPD waif and in the end what did I have to show for it? It was not a positive experience in any way other than that it showed me I was codependent and needed to change.

At the end of the day these people can't be helped if they don't want help. I don't think there is anything wrong with having casual sex with them if you are careful and can handle it.

I spent a year strapping on my armour and grabbing my sword and shield and running into 'defend" her or whatnot and it never meant anything for her.

There's too many people on this site who went through this and are  STILL codependent.  It's like, learn the lesson

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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2015, 08:31:13 PM »

 Inferno

  PREACH. Game lesson free of charge! NICE!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

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cosmonaut
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1057



« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2015, 09:11:22 PM »

I don't agree with it being chauvinism.  I spent a year being used up by a BPD waif and in the end what did I have to show for it? It was not a positive experience in any way other than that it showed me I was codependent and needed to change.

At the end of the day these people can't be helped if they don't want help. I don't think there is anything wrong with having casual sex with them if you are careful and can handle it.

I spent a year strapping on my armour and grabbing my sword and shield and running into 'defend" her or whatnot and it never meant anything for her.

There's too many people on this site who went through this and are  STILL codependent.  It's like, learn the lesson

I disagree completely, Infern0.  This has nothing to do with codependence.  pwBPD are not capable of entering into a fwb type relationship on anything resembling equal footing.  They are at a distinct disadvantage.  They have an extremely serious disorder that mandates the formation of attachments and is characterized by extreme emotional instability.  pwBPD often engage in impulsive behaviors as a way to cope with the tremendous pain that they feel - including promiscuity and hypersexuality.  This is an extremely vulnerable population.  To use them for sex is exploitation.

I don't want to attack you because I know you are very hurt and are trying to heal, same as all of us here.  But I really do think that you need to reconsider what you are saying.  pwBPD are very sick.  These are not monsters, no matter how much their behavior may hurt and may even be down right abusive.  They are sick.  We need to maintain some compassion for them.
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Reecer1588
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 396



« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 09:18:09 PM »

I agree with what cosmonaut said, however this is not my thread and this will be the last thing I mention about this. If anyone is reading this and also is distressed by what has been mentioned here, I want to make it clear that this is NOT the views of all members here. That being said, you are entitled to your opinion, Infern0, and although I think it's hideously wrong, I will not make another statement on it.
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