New Beginnings & Boundaries 7...

[Grey Kitty]

Well... .she is proving that the divorce is part of her push-pull games with you... .not that she really wants to end everything by doing it.

Good question to ask her!

I asked her how she thought the divorce would change our r/s.  She said she "hadn't really thought about it and was taking things one day at a time."

If the topic comes up again, you could point out one legally required change if you got divorced. Your employer would have to take her and her kids off of your health insurance, costing her a lot more money.

The more interesting question... .what changes would you make after the divorce?

You are entitled to your own feelings about that--she isn't the only one who gets feelings.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

Well... .she is proving that the divorce is part of her push-pull games with you... .not that she really wants to end everything by doing it.

Why do you say that?  Because she "hasn't thought about what changes between us?"  The funny thing is, she is showing no affection whatsoever all of a sudden when we had sex last week... .

I asked her how she thought the divorce would change our r/s.  She said she "hadn't really thought about it and was taking things one day at a time."

If the topic comes up again, you could point out one legally required change if you got divorced. Your employer would have to take her and her kids off of your health insurance, costing her a lot more money.

The more interesting question... .what changes would you make after the divorce?

You are entitled to your own feelings about that--she isn't the only one who gets feelings.

I told her the last time she dysregulated the night of the "financial seminar" we attended last month that led to her filing was that I would take her off.  I have no problem doing that.  

Hello ML,

I think you did great in bringing it up   even better no dysregulation!

You made a start ... . 

Thanks!

Wow, good for you!

You will probably have a very interesting session with your therapist this week.

Probably so.

Do you feel a little better having faced these things?  Be good and kind to yourself, ML   I've seen those glassy eyes you mentioned.  She might need a little time to digest.

I don't really feel any different, or at least I don't think I do.  Can you explain what you mean by her needing time to digest?

I think the beauty of all this is, it's heading in the direction of "real", balancing out those highs and lows.

I agree with this, just don't know where that leads.

Tonight I feel the worst I've felt in years and I cried for several reasons.  One is I absolutely feel terrible and have for days and not getting any better.  I am trying really hard with radical acceptance and yet I feel myself getting a little upset thinking about all the times I've dropped everything to take care of my wife when she was sick and yet she tells me I'll call and check on you in a bit.  Does that make sense?  Not trying to let that feeling stay around too long, but dealing with it.

[Grey Kitty]

Well... .she is proving that the divorce is part of her push-pull games with you... .not that she really wants to end everything by doing it.

Why do you say that?  Because she "hasn't thought about what changes between us?"  The funny thing is, she is showing no affection whatsoever all of a sudden when we had sex last week... .

Well... .if she wanted to end everything, she would have just stopped all friendly contact with you, and probably stopped asking you for money. That she's bouncing back and forth and engaging in the push-pull thing with you seems pretty clearl.

FYI, just because she's playing games doesn't mean that she won't actually go through with the divorce... .I'm not going to predict how far she'll go.

 Sorry you are feeling sick... .and getting so little support from her. Sigh.

Crying for how imbalanced it is or how she's treating you is what you're going to have to go through. There is probably a lot more for you to grieve. 

[MaroonLiquid]

Well... .she is proving that the divorce is part of her push-pull games with you... .not that she really wants to end everything by doing it.

Why do you say that?  Because she "hasn't thought about what changes between us?"  The funny thing is, she is showing no affection whatsoever all of a sudden when we had sex last week... .

I asked her how she thought the divorce would change our r/s.  She said she "hadn't really thought about it and was taking things one day at a time."

If the topic comes up again, you could point out one legally required change if you got divorced. Your employer would have to take her and her kids off of your health insurance, costing her a lot more money.

The more interesting question... .what changes would you make after the divorce?

You are entitled to your own feelings about that--she isn't the only one who gets feelings.

I told her the last time she dysregulated the night of the "financial seminar" we attended last month that led to her filing was that I would take her off.  I have no problem doing that.  

Hello ML,

I think you did great in bringing it up   even better no dysregulation!

You made a start ... . 

Thanks!

Wow, good for you!

You will probably have a very interesting session with your therapist this week.

Probably so.

Do you feel a little better having faced these things?  Be good and kind to yourself, ML   I've seen those glassy eyes you mentioned.  She might need a little time to digest.

I don't really feel any different, or at least I don't think I do.  Can you explain what you mean by her needing time to digest?

I think the beauty of all this is, it's heading in the direction of "real", balancing out those highs and lows.

I agree with this, just don't know where that leads.

Tonight I feel the worst I've felt in years and I cried for several reasons.  One is I absolutely feel terrible and have for days and not getting any better.  I am trying really hard with radical acceptance and yet I feel myself getting a little upset thinking about all the times I've dropped everything to take care of my wife when she was sick and yet she tells me I'll call and check on you in a bit.  Does that make sense?  Not trying to let that feeling stay around too long, but dealing with it.

One more thing.  When we were talking about "what changes after the divorce", we were talking about property division.  She asked if I could bring the hope chest back that I use as my son's toy box and I said, "Sure."  She asked if I could return it next week while I am out of town and and said that I would.  I asked if I could go ahead and get my laptop back and her response was ridiculous, almost triggered me, but just said, "Ok."  She said, "Once our paperwork is final and everything is agreed to then I will be glad to give that back to you."  It's these moments where I start to realize the depths of her mental illness.  She has no reason to hold on to it and yet won't give it back.  She then said something to I think try and trigger me at that point by saying, "Can I trust you that when you stay over here next week that nothing will be removed from my house?"  I responded and said, "I stayed here last month and nothing was removed."  She said, "I hadn't filed for divorce yet." and I said, "Nothing will be removed."  She said, "Well, if you decide that it is too difficult for you to try and stay here, let me know and I will make other arrangements."  I wanted to say, "How dare you accuse me of the very thing you've done to me over and over again!", but just kept my mouth shut.  Their projections are ridiculous.  

Then, later this afternoon, she asked me to bring some bolt cutters to our son so that he could break the lock on his locker at work to get his keys out. 

Well... .she is proving that the divorce is part of her push-pull games with you... .not that she really wants to end everything by doing it.

Why do you say that?  Because she "hasn't thought about what changes between us?"  The funny thing is, she is showing no affection whatsoever all of a sudden when we had sex last week... .

Well... .if she wanted to end everything, she would have just stopped all friendly contact with you, and probably stopped asking you for money. That she's bouncing back and forth and engaging in the push-pull thing with you seems pretty clearl.

FYI, just because she's playing games doesn't mean that she won't actually go through with the divorce... .I'm not going to predict how far she'll go.

 Sorry you are feeling sick... .and getting so little support from her. Sigh.

Crying for how imbalanced it is or how she's treating you is what you're going to have to go through. There is probably a lot more for you to grieve. 

The big thing now is she wants no affection whatsoever... .Just stupid... .

[123Phoebe]

Do you feel a little better having faced these things?  Be good and kind to yourself, ML   I've seen those glassy eyes you mentioned.  She might need a little time to digest.

I don't really feel any different, or at least I don't think I do.  Can you explain what you mean by her needing time to digest?

I can't say for certain, just thinking she may need some time to sit with this this new way of being (initiated by her), to figure out how this does change things, when not finagling for (un)certain outcomes. To me anyway, this is granting space for her to own her decision of divorce, to feel the effects and possible ramifications.  It has now become "real".  You listened, you heard her.

I think the beauty of all this is, it's heading in the direction of "real", balancing out those highs and lows.

I agree with this, just don't know where that leads.

Tonight I feel the worst I've felt in years and I cried for several reasons.  One is I absolutely feel terrible and have for days and not getting any better.  I am trying really hard with radical acceptance and yet I feel myself getting a little upset thinking about all the times I've dropped everything to take care of my wife when she was sick and yet she tells me I'll call and check on you in a bit.  :)oes that make sense?  Not trying to let that feeling stay around too long, but dealing with it.

I don't know about your wife, but my bf is wonderful when I'm really sick.  By that, I mean he knows I'm sick because I'm down for the count-- can't go to work or go grocery shopping, out to eat or anything social; I'm sick and he's as empathetic as can be.  If I'm beebopping around, albeit moaning, he doesn't really take the sickness seriously, mainly because I'm not taking it seriously by taking serious care of myself.  At those times, he'll call to check on me, but won't drop everything, nor would I expect him to.

She then said something to I think try and trigger me at that point by saying, "Can I trust you that when you stay over here next week that nothing will be removed from my house?"  I responded and said, "I stayed here last month and nothing was removed."  She said, "I hadn't filed for divorce yet." and I said, "Nothing will be removed."  She said, "Well, if you decide that it is too difficult for you to try and stay here, let me know and I will make other arrangements."  I wanted to say, "How dare you accuse me of the very thing you've done to me over and over again!", but just kept my mouth shut.  Their projections are ridiculous.  

I'm not sure how I would handle staying at her house while she's out of town, if I were you.  I'd like to believe she won't cause any hoopla, but in light of all of this and her asking if she can trust you not to remove anything from her house... . Hmmm... .

Have you spoken with a lawyer yet?  I'm just wondering what one would suggest doing in a situation like this, having dealt with numerous scenarios.

Talking this over with your T will hopefully bring more clarity... . C'mon Tuesday!

Hope you feel better soon, Maroon

[MaroonLiquid]

I can't say for certain, just thinking she may need some time to sit with this this new way of being (initiated by her), to figure out how this does change things, when not finagling for (un)certain outcomes. To me anyway, this is granting space for her to own her decision of divorce, to feel the effects and possible ramifications.  It has now become "real".  You listened, you heard her.

I hear what you're saying. This is where I have a difficult time.  How is it not "real" to her when she went and talked to a lawyer and filed.  Yesterday, she pulled out her "folder of paperwork" she presented to her lawyer (with his card stapled to it) when we were talking about our taxes.  It almost seemed like it was planned to get me to react.  I didn't.

I don't know about your wife, but my bf is wonderful when I'm really sick.  By that, I mean he knows I'm sick because I'm down for the count-- can't go to work or go grocery shopping, out to eat or anything social; I'm sick and he's as empathetic as can be.  If I'm beebopping around, albeit moaning, he doesn't really take the sickness seriously, mainly because I'm not taking it seriously by taking serious care of myself.  At those times, he'll call to check on me, but won't drop everything, nor would I expect him to.

Understood.  I just see things where when she gets the sniffles, the world stops.  When she doesn't feel good, I want to take care of her and whatever needs to be done.

I'm not sure how I would handle staying at her house while she's out of town, if I were you.  I'd like to believe she won't cause any hoopla, but in light of all of this and her asking if she can trust you not to remove anything from her house... . Hmmm... .

Have you spoken with a lawyer yet?  I'm just wondering what one would suggest doing in a situation like this, having dealt with numerous scenarios.

Talking this over with your T will hopefully bring more clarity... . C'mon Tuesday!

Hope you feel better soon, Maroon

Thanks. 

[123Phoebe]

I just see things where when she gets the sniffles, the world stops.  When she doesn't feel good, I want to take care of her and whatever needs to be done.

Seriously, the world stops over sniffles?  That is a foreign land to me.  A nap maybe?  A big ol' box of kleenex.  Some ibuprofen.  Carry-out or Campbell's soup

Is there a chance that you baby her?  Maybe it feels engulfing to her?

The funny thing is, she is showing no affection whatsoever all of a sudden when we had sex last week... .

The big thing now is she wants no affection whatsoever... .Just stupid... .

And I have to ask, really because I'm wondering if it's a guy thing... . As sick as it sounds like you are, kidney issues?  That sounds serious.  What kind of affection are you wishing she wanted?  Sex?

Out of the mouth of my mother, "If he feels good enough to have sex, then he must not feel that bad".

Men and women are just different, I think

[MaroonLiquid]

I just see things where when she gets the sniffles, the world stops.  When she doesn't feel good, I want to take care of her and whatever needs to be done.

Seriously, the world stops over sniffles?  That is a foreign land to me.  A nap maybe?  A big ol' box of kleenex.  Some ibuprofen.  Carry-out or Campbell's soup

Is there a chance that you baby her?  Maybe it feels engulfing to her?

I know I was being a bit over the top.  But when she gets a cold, she doesn't deal well with it at all.  I doN't try and baby her, I just think enough of her to try and make things easier for her.  That's how I'm wired.

The funny thing is, she is showing no affection whatsoever all of a sudden when we had sex last week... .

The big thing now is she wants no affection whatsoever... .Just stupid... .

And I have to ask, really because I'm wondering if it's a guy thing... . As sick as it sounds like you are, kidney issues?  That sounds serious.  What kind of affection are you wishing she wanted?  Sex?

Out of the mouth of my mother, "If he feels good enough to have sex, then he must not feel that bad".

Men and women are just different, I think

I actually wasn't thinking of sex at all!    . What I mean by affection is a hug... .I find it strange how things were no different between us until the last few days.  And now she's acting like I'm some stranger.  Just weird. 

[123Phoebe]

I actually wasn't thinking of sex at all!   . What I mean by affection is a hug... .I find it strange how things were no different between us until the last few days.  And now she's acting like I'm some stranger.  Just weird.  

Maybe men and women aren't as different as I think   Okay Maroon... .   She has BPD.  How many other strange things has she done over the years?

And where do your boundaries lie around behaviors you cannot deal with or tolerate because they go against the very nature of your core?

[MaroonLiquid]

Maybe men and women aren't as different as I think   Okay Maroon... .   She has BPD.  How many other strange things has she done over the years?

Where should I start?   

And where do your boundaries lie around behaviors you cannot deal with or tolerate because they go against the very nature of your core?

I thought I have been keeping much better boundaries with certain things the last few months. 

Yesterday, I didn't contact my wife at all.  She did contact me yesterday morning to check on me, but then we had no communication the rest of the day till late yesterday evening.  She texted to say she just got done working and asked how I was.  I said I was better and that I took my daughter to dinner for her birthday as to not let her down.  She asked where we went and I told her.  She asked if I was with my ex wife and I said yes, along with her husband, her mom, my other daughter and son.  She made the statement, "Oh, I see they have welcomed you back in the fold.  That's nice of them." (My first thought was, "Uh-oh"... .)  I simply said, "Nope.  It is nothing like that.  That is what my daughter wanted to do for her birthday and I gave her that.  Did you get a lot of work done today?"  She said yes and went into a big old story about her work yesterday.  She then needed help changing out a print cartridge in the printer.  It was pretty funny as she shook the print cartridge and ink went everywhere.  She then sent me pictures of herself and the room she was in and there was ink everywhere.     Anyway, once she got that cleaned up, we FaceTime'd so that I could walk her through cleaning the printheads on the printer.  She seemed pretty appreciative of my help and and we laughed some.  It ended well, and still taking one day at a time... .

[bunnyrabit]

Maybe men and women aren't as different as I think cool  Okay Maroon... .    She has BPD.  How many other strange things has she done over the years?

Where should I start?   grin

At the beginning

[MaroonLiquid]

I said in a previous post that now we have had "communication" regarding the divorce and I asked her what she thought might change between us, she has now "pulled back" the last couple of days.  It doesn't bother me and realize it is part of the push/pull, and saw her eyes "glaze" over during the conversation.  Was that a trigger to split or is she just possibly left  thinking about the "ramifications" of her decisions?  I'm leaving her alone and we are occasionally speaking, but just curious to your guys take.  Thoughts? 

[Grey Kitty]

I think you are spending way more time than is healthy worrying about what she thinks.

She's been pulling away after getting closer to you like this in cycles for how long now? The whole time you've been separated?

[123Phoebe]

Maroon, what has changed for you through all of this?  Are there ramifications (for her to think about) resulting from her decisions?  Is anything different? 

Before you said you weren't sure if you could have a relationship with her outside of marriage.  Are you now sure you can?

[123Phoebe]

I remember that my T said that, "she obviously sees herself having a r/s with me for a long time because she still wants me involved in their lives", but that was before she filed and I'm seeing him again Tuesday with this new info.

Hi again, Maroon,

Did you see your T yesterday? 

[MaroonLiquid]

Maroon, what has changed for you through all of this?  Are there ramifications (for her to think about) resulting from her decisions?  Is anything different? 

The only thing different about me is I am at peace and have been since I got the paperwork.  I'm not scared of the "finality" of this anymore. 

Before you said you weren't sure if you could have a relationship with her outside of marriage.  Are you now sure you can?

At this point, I'm not saying yes or no.  I don't know what a r/s looks like for me outside of that yet as I am just trying to find my way through this adventure.

Hi again, Maroon,

Did you see your T yesterday? 

Yes I did!  He told me that I am handling things very well and that I am much stronger than I give myself credit for.  he told me that over the last 10 months that I have grown much stronger!  He says that she is obviously very confused, and changes as the wind blows.  He told me that I make things very difficult for her because I don't do that anymore.  He said that regardless of how this turns out, I should be proud of myself.  He said that he "thinks" she filed for "control", but to not worry about it and continue to be the steady rock in her life.  He said that she isn't as volatile and that is a blessing.  He reiterated that I obviously mean a lot to her and the kids and that is why I'm still around.  if I didn't, she wouldn't have much to do with me if at all.

[MaroonLiquid]

Forgot to mention.  Last night I went over to my wife's house and we watched a movie and fell asleep together.  It was nice to just be together and there not be intimacy.  That may sound weird, but hopefully you know what I mean.  Everything went well and appreciate that it has been a while since she has completely dysregulated.  She has had her moments obviously, but her highs and lows are becoming way more even keel.  That is so much better than the alternative.  I wish she had come to this point months and months ago.  I was part of the problem obviously and see what part I played in that now.

[formflier]

  I was part of the problem obviously and see what part I played in that now.

Might be good for newbies that are just getting on the boards to summarize the part you played then... . and the part you play now.

You have a powerful story of how changing yourself... . forces the r/s to change... .   for the better   

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

Might be good for newbies that are just getting on the boards to summarize the part you played then... . and the part you play now.

You have a powerful story of how changing yourself... . forces the r/s to change... .   for the better   

FF

Ok, here goes... .

     Ten months ago when I first found these boards, I had no clue what BPD was nor how to combat (healthily) the illness.  The first couple of months, I really didn't look at myself.  Instead, I was waiting for my wife to "get it".  Get that she made a lot of bad choices, get that she needs help, and get that I'm not the problem.  I spent the first few months of this as I did the 6 years of our marriage.  I HAD to be right and tell her so.  What I learned, is that aids in the push/pull within pwBPD.  They want you to "prove your innocence", fight, rant and rave so that they can tell you how wrong you are and project all of their negativity on to you.  They want to know they are getting to you.  It's the only way they can feel better about themselves.  I played right into her illness.  I went through a lot of game-playing, stealing from me, bad dysregulations, no-win situations, using me for money, dangling "us" like a carrot in front of me, lengthy extinction bursts and her even filing for divorce three weeks ago. 

     First, I HAD TO learn self-control and control my behavior first.  I then had eo work on myself, find out who I am without her, and then and only then, could I accept the fact that I couldn't control her.  It was then that I learned to radically accept her for who she is, illness and all.  That took 9 months!  I had to be ok with the fact that she was going to do what she was going to do.  I could still be a better me regardless.  The last two and a half months, things have gotten better.  I'm sure you will say, but she filed for divorce.  Well, I look at that as a win for the both of us.  There is no more "Limbo Land".  If she goes through with it, I'll be ok.  If she doesn't, I'll still be okay.  I am at peace and refuse to fight.  I don't mean not standing up for myself in a healthy manner, but not letting her illness control my emotions or ruin my day.  She hasn't full on dysregulated in quite a while.  I haven't either.  I stay calm, loving, and forgiving.  I know that she does wrestle between divorce (because it's easier than facing the truth, consequences and actions of her life) and staying with me because we love each other.  I do love her either way.  Enough to let her go if she can't face her demons.   

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife left town on Saturday morning early.  I spent the night with her the night before to get her to the airport and then get ready for softball.  She mentioned several times the night before and the next morning how thankful she was that I was able to be there with the kids while she was gone.  The BIG THING in my book was, we went shopping for clothes for her the night before she left, and got her packed and she DID NOT dysregulate at all!  Both of those events are usually BIG triggers for her.  I was so proud of her.  Usually, she gets so flustered and anxious she flips out over something small.  When I felt her start to do that, I would change the subject to something positive.  The only time I didn't was when she said, "I don't want to leave."  I responded with, "I know it sucks to have to go, and you seem to get nervous when you have to leave.  I don't want you to go either, but you will do great and this trip will be great for you!  Everything here will be taken care of."  She immediately calmed down and smiled and said, "Thank you!"  I then told her I'm glad that the last few years she could go away on business and be comfortable knowing everything was taken care of.  In the past with her ex, she was always worried sick as sometimes he literally wouldn't feed them at times or woud be high.  She said she really appreciated that, that I'm a good dad and very responsible.  When I dropped her off at the airport, she gave me a couple of kisses and told me she would miss me.  I told her the same.  Everything has gone exremely well with the kids except for a few minor things (teenagers   ), but am blessed.  They have all been extremely well behaved and happy.  My son and I are getting along great, our youngest daughter has been very loving and hugging me all the time and the middle daughter has started being loving again when she was started to back off.  My wife is not feeling well while she has been out of town and have validated that.  She will be out of town till Thursday and at least she can focus on work.  All in all, this week couldn't have started off any better and I'm grateful.

[123Phoebe]

All in all, this week couldn't have started off any better and I'm grateful.

Yay!

[MaroonLiquid]

Just wanted to say that everything is still going very well while my wife has been away.  Kids and I are having a blast!  We are laughing together and they are all saying they love me again.  Over really enjoyed this!  One thing, my wife sent a text to me last night commenting that the kids haven't called her or texted her since she has been gone with a perplexed emoticon attached.  She has commented how well things are going, complements me and that she is glad, but what did she expect when the kids feel secure?  They have always been good with me.  I told her I would have them call her, and not taking her comment personal, instead seeing it as something that goes against pictures she has painted in her own mind and to other people about me I guess.  We tell each other we miss each other and I validate that she needs this time for herself and even though it is business, take time to recharge without all the responsibility that she usually has. 

[123Phoebe]

Glad you're having a blast with the kids, Maroon!

I remember something about returning her hope chest (or dresser?) while she's away; have you done that?

Hope you're enjoying another awesome day!

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .