wanting me to do things after a fight

[sadeyes]

Had a pretty big blow out this am. He said some really nasty stuff. Things have calmed down to the point of not really talking (but not silent treatment). Now,  As he always does,  He is asking me to do things for him. Rub his back,  get up and get him a drink etc. ... .

What is this about?  Testing to see if I "still love him" by doing t things for him,  our trying to "control me " into doing things ?

This is pretty common after a fight,  So I am just curious

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[MaroonLiquid]

Sometimes I think it is their way of "apologizing".  It's backwards, but it makes sense in an unreasonable way.  It is also control... .

[sadeyes]

I would go for that.  Problem is the issue that brought up the fight is never solved. In effect he made it worse by the things he said,  and I am just supposed to be ok with it. 

I am not. I am not ok with the behaviors that caused the fight in the first place,  and the fight just validated the things I was upset about. It is hard to believe that they can expect to go from telling you you're a "fat long haired c**t" to shortly after expecting you to want to do anything for them.

I don't know. I'm really wondering at this point if I should just walk away. i love him,  but even when I take away the rages and insults and total over the line stuff,  I am having trouble finding what I get from the relationship.

I hate to sound selfish,  but from a practical standpoint doesn't it make sense to get something from the relationship.  You love them,  but so what?  Do you really love them,  or do you love what you thought they were?

[anon452738]

I have BPD traits and I used to do this. Honestly, I would be so upset with the fight that I was kind of too depressed/distraught to move much. I felt like I needed help in doing things after a fight because I was emotionally exhausted. That's just me, though.

[ColdEthyl]

I would go for that.  Problem is the issue that brought up the fight is never solved. In effect he made it worse by the things he said,  and I am just supposed to be ok with it. 

I am not. I am not ok with the behaviors that caused the fight in the first place,  and the fight just validated the things I was upset about. It is hard to believe that they can expect to go from telling you you're a "fat long haired c**t" to shortly after expecting you to want to do anything for them.

I don't know. I'm really wondering at this point if I should just walk away. i love him,  but even when I take away the rages and insults and total over the line stuff,  I am having trouble finding what I get from the relationship.

I hate to sound selfish,  but from a practical standpoint doesn't it make sense to get something from the relationship.  You love them,  but so what?  Do you really love them,  or do you love what you thought they were?

I think that's a question each of us has to answer for themselves. BPD is spectrum disorder, so some of us might be dealing with some issues while others of us don't.

For me, the rages and name calling do not bother me anymore. It's his way of disposing the negative and vile feelings he has, and he does it improperly because of his BPD. Now, that's not to say I just take it because I don't. Over the past year working these tools... . I have gotten a lot of it to reduce and he's starting to improve in other ways... . accepting blame, apologizing, trying harder... . etc.

Aside from his BPD, if you strip away all of that... . my husband is a smart, funny, witty guy. We share a lot of hobbies and have a great time together. We have great conversations, share similar beliefs, etc. etc. so there's a lot more for me than his BPD in this marriage.

[eyvindr]

I hate that crap. I know this is my thing, but the last thing I feel like doing are those little r-ship niceties for a partner right after they've hurt my feelings.

I know it's my stuff -- I've been told that I'm "too sensitive" -- ! Which is the basis of what became a running joke in my r-ship -- that *I* was "the chick"!

Too sensitive. Touch isht.

[maxsterling]

Yeah, this is commonly what I see.  She can be downright nasty, complaining, negative, and sour.  And a few hours later, she needs me to do something for her.  At that point, she is either frustrated that I could not read her mind and do it for her already, or completely over it and wanting sex.

In what bizarro world does one act like a complete ass and then a short time later expect to get something form the person he/she mistreated?  Obviously if the situation were reversed, we would be painted black for all time and eternity.

I'm not sure what is going on in my wife's mind.  Sometimes I think she doesn't remember or minimalizes how nasty she was.   She usually does admit she was nasty, but writes it off as "ordinary".  Or maybe it is her way of trying to heal.  I do know she typically puts the cart before the horse in relationships:  "need" as a mechanism of developing friendships, or "sex" as a means of developing love and intimacy.  "If we both need each other, we will be friends."  "if we have sex, we will fall in love."   I think that does not work for most people, who develop friendships and intimate relationships the other way around. 

[eyvindr]

I think you're right, Max.

I'm not sure what is going on in my wife's mind.  Sometimes I think she doesn't remember or minimalizes how nasty she was.   She usually does admit she was nasty, but writes it off as "ordinary".  Or maybe it is her way of trying to heal.  I do know she typically puts the cart before the horse in relationships:  "need" as a mechanism of developing friendships, or "sex" as a means of developing love and intimacy.  "If we both need each other, we will be friends."  "if we have sex, we will fall in love." I think that does not work for most people, who develop friendships and intimate relationships the other way around. 

I've posted this before -- but after every major conflict my ex and I had, the absolute MOST responsibility that she'd ever take for her role in the issue was 50%. It was as if that was the one parsed bit of information she chose to hang on to from years of off and on counseling, self-help books and internet forums -- that it takes 2 to tango, basically. But, of course, she took it completely out of context and relied on it to limit her level of accountability in any negative emotional episode.

Like your wife, my ex would also minimalize situations. I generally came to feel like she'd fight with me until either she reached exhaustion, realized she was wrong and wanted to forget about it, or simply got tired of fighting. And then, even if it was something that ruined en entire day or week or vacation -- she'd be like, "I'm over it now -- I've already forgotten. Can we just move on?"

Which might be another partial lesson she took from her "research" -- that it's important to be able to move on and not keep dredging up past events. Which, of course, is terrific advice -- IF you then actually RESOLVE the issues that CAUSED the events in the first place. As opposed to "forgetting about it" until the next time, and then repeating the same dysfunctional interaction.

Exhausting.

[Meadowslark]

Like your wife, my ex would also minimalize situations. I generally came to feel like she'd fight with me until either she reached exhaustion, realized she was wrong and wanted to forget about it, or simply got tired of fighting. And then, even if it was something that ruined en entire day or week or vacation -- she'd be like, "I'm over it now -- I've already forgotten. Can we just move on?"

My dad would do this! He's not BPD, he's NPD, but it's the same exact behavior. He'd call me names, tell me I'm fat and disgusting (but also asking for grandchildren?) and when I would confront him about it, he'd say, "Why aren't you over that now? I'm over it. Can't you just let it go?"

And when my BPDsister and I had our last blowout back in December, I severed all ties and contact. I saw dad recently and he said, "I really wish you guys would get passed this and move on."

I detest the "I really wish... . " phrases from him.

But it's insulting, I think, so unload all this nastiness on a person and then turn around and expect favors. "I'll call you every nasty thing I can think of and shred your feelings and self esteem. Now can you go get me a drink?" What a bizarro, backwards world they live in!    I have no idea why they do it either, except my theory is that they're so self-absorbed, they can't think or empathize with anyone else.

[maxsterling]

I've posted this before -- but after every major conflict my ex and I had, the absolute MOST responsibility that she'd ever take for her role in the issue was 50%. It was as if that was the one parsed bit of information she chose to hang on to from years of off and on counseling, self-help books and internet forums -- that it takes 2 to tango, basically. But, of course, she took it completely out of context and relied on it to limit her level of accountability in any negative emotional episode.

I see the same thing.  I can simply walk in the door from work, and she is screaming and throwing things, and I walk out the door.  She may later apologize for raging, with an addendum that I somehow am partially responsible for walking away from it.  There are times, however, when she is completely down on herself where she will say "I'm a horrible person and very mean to you, I don't know why you stay with me, I am ruining your life." 

My wife doesn't just do this with me, she does it with everyone.  She may be extremely vile to someone, know she was, but then look for reasons as to why the other person is partly at fault.  In the case of my wife, I think this has to do with misinterpreted validation from therapists, but probably more so misinterpreted information from 12-step groups.  In the 12-step groups, they talk about the role of an "enabler".  She then uses that as a reason to blame someone else for her behavior.  It really doesn't work that way. 

[eyvindr]

No, it certainly does not. It's completely reasonable, not to mention absolutely common, for something, anything -- many things! -- to be the "fault" of one person entirely. It's not about blaming and who's right vs who's wrong -- but, man -- if I drop a plate and it breaks, it sure as heck isn't 50% your fault. Seems from these boards -- and my own direct experience -- that a lot of pwBPD seem to feel that, whatever happens, you're partly responsible, simply by existing.

[sadeyes]

You know the interesting thing about "fault" and BPD. At least in my case,  It seems like "fault" is a major thing. Even things that really don't have a fault attached in the normal world, he wants to have fault attached to it. And therefore if I am not accepting responsibility or fault for whatever,  I am blaming him. And therefore he has a fit.

[an0ught]

I think there are at least these two factors at play

  - fear of abandonment / attachment

  - emotional neediness

The way I deal with this is that I acknowledge/signal that we still do have a relationship but I also maintain some distance and signal that I'm mad and preferred the other side of the relationship be on the other side of the moon. It is a deliberate dialectical message. It would be unfair and escalating to trigger abandonment. It would be self invalidating and damaging to pretend I'm not mad. There may be an emotional neediness on the other side but self care comes first. That is not punishment but we need to take care of ourselves and the pwBPD needs to learn that we take more time to calm down.

[eyvindr]

an0ught,

Terrific post -- well said. My ex NEVER was able -- or willing -- to accept it no matter how many times I tried to tell her, explain to her, demonstrate to her that I just needed MORE time to heal from the nasty episodes, and that, for me, involved taking some time and space to and for myself. In her world, there was no possible interpretation of that request other than that I was abandoning her, or planning to leave her, or had already decided to leave. I told her so many, many times -- if I were to leave, it would be because of this refusal on her part to ever take accountability for her role in the issues we had, and her refusal to let me decompress after some horrific argument resulting from some crazy BPD misinterpretation of reality.

Guess what? I was right. I left.

I think there are at least these two factors at play

  - fear of abandonment / attachment

  - emotional neediness

The way I deal with this is that I acknowledge/signal that we still do have a relationship but I also maintain some distance and signal that I'm mad and preferred the other side of the relationship be on the other side of the moon. It is a deliberate dialectical message. It would be unfair and escalating to trigger abandonment. It would be self invalidating and damaging to pretend I'm not mad. There may be an emotional neediness on the other side but self care comes first. That is not punishment but we need to take care of ourselves and the pwBPD needs to learn that we take more time to calm down.