Hard to deal with the total lack of empathy

[dobie]

I never heard my x mourn the r/s or show much if any empathy after she left in fact the opposite .

How can they do that ? I know she is not evil and has a conscience?

 

[clydegriffith]

Because they aren't normal. The person i was involved with just jumps from guy to guy (popping kids out a long the way mind you) then acts like nothing ever happened with the pepole in her past. She doesn't have any real friends, doesn't get along with her family so the only thing she has to cling on to is her million kids and whatever relationship she happens to be in at the moment. Amazingly, she keeps finding half-decent guys to tolerate her but she always ends up ruining these situations because of her anger problems and sexual impulsivness.

[Invictus01]

Because they aren't normal. The person i was involved with just jumps from guy to guy (popping kids out a long the way mind you) then acts like nothing ever happened with the pepole in her past. She doesn't have any real friends, doesn't get along with her family so the only thing she has to cling on to is her million kids and whatever relationship she happens to be in at the moment. Amazingly, she keeps finding half-decent guys to tolerate her but she always ends up ruining these situations because of her anger problems and sexual impulsivness.

Those poor kids don't have a chance... .

[SWLSR]

I never heard my x mourn the r/s or show much if any empathy after she left in fact the opposite .

How can they do that ? I know she is not evil and has a conscience?

 

They do have an conscience but they have this ability to block it out for the short run.  Now it does come back on them stronger than before.  They the current relationship is damaged and the whole thing starts again.

[dobie]

 Mine never went bed hoping more a me me me attitude and victim mentality that procludes any empathy

[Mister Brightside]

If she's borderline, she has a conscience, but her needs are so, so great that she can't focus on anyone else. If she's narcissistic or sociopathic, then her conscience doesn't really exist.

Conscience or no conscience, it's definitely difficult to accept the devaluation and discard. Unfortunately, there's nothing we could've done to keep it from happening, so try not to take it personally. I'm preaching to myself here too.

[jhkbuzz]

I never heard my x mourn the r/s or show much if any empathy after she left in fact the opposite .

How can they do that ? I know she is not evil and has a conscience?

 

It is common for people with BPD to dissociate painful emotions - to go "numb."  This is one of the most devastating states for us to witness.  It feels like the person you thought loved you has absolutely no concern for you.  It's not the case; they are emotionally overwhelmed, so they completely shut down. It's a defense mechanism.

We can all do it to a degree; with people with BPD it can be extreme.

[dobie]

If she's borderline, she has a conscience, but her needs are so, so great that she can't focus on anyone else. If she's narcissistic or sociopathic, then her conscience doesn't really exist.

Conscience or no conscience, it's definitely difficult to accept the devaluation and discard. Unfortunately, there's nothing we could've done to keep it from happening, so try not to take it personally. I'm preaching to myself here too.

Well mine claims to have not loved me for a year so that helps

[Heartbroken Eagle]

It was the lack of empathy and the coldness in my ex fiancee  when I found out about her affair which shocked me the most.

I was crying my eyes out, devastated at finding out about her and she just looked at me, glazed eyed with no remorse, blaming me for her screwing around.

Needless to say she has never apologised for her actions!

[ogopogodude]

Lack of empathy and seemingly having no (or very little) conscience is classic of BPD. 

The worse on the scale of BPD (if there is such a thing, & I think that there is such a thing as a scale... .) then the less empathy there is exhibited. 

It has been my experience that any empathy is simply a way of manipulation by the BPD afflicted person.

[ogopogodude]

It was the lack of empathy and the coldness in my ex fiancee  when I found out about her affair which shocked me the most.

I was crying my eyes out, devastated at finding out about her and she just looked at me, glazed eyed with no remorse, blaming me for her screwing around.

Needless to say she has never apologised for her actions!

HAHAHA, ... . hehehe, ... . did I just READ this correctly, ... .? A BPD actually apologizing for his/her behaviour... .? yeah right... .

Fonzy on Happy Days was a character that could not physically say "I'm sorry".

Does anyone remember that? This was a character role that EVERYbody liked because he was cool and funny at the same time.

A BPD afflicted person NEVER can take accountability for their actions.  When my wife rolled her vehicle on a calm beautiful night three weeks ago where all road conditions were perfect with no traffic, no rain, ... . nothing, ... . when asked by me what happened:  her response: "there was a huge pothole that I hit"

Hmmmm, ... . interesting, ... . I drive on that road every day and that pothole certainly wasn't there. I'm sure the cops "believed" her story as well as the judge will, too, when she appears in court in the next two weeks from now... .   

[jammo1989]

Because they aren't normal. The person i was involved with just jumps from guy to guy (popping kids out a long the way mind you) then acts like nothing ever happened with the pepole in her past. She doesn't have any real friends, doesn't get along with her family so the only thing she has to cling on to is her million kids and whatever relationship she happens to be in at the moment. Amazingly, she keeps finding half-decent guys to tolerate her but she always ends up ruining these situations because of her anger problems and sexual impulsivness.

I can seriously relate to this, this is exactly how my ex was!

[EaglesJuju]

It is common for people with BPD to dissociate painful emotions - to go "numb."  This is one of the most devastating states for us to witness.  It feels like the person you thought loved you has absolutely no concern for you.  It's not the case; they are emotionally overwhelmed, so they completely shut down. It's a defense mechanism.

We can all do it to a degree; with people with BPD it can be extreme.

I wanted to add on to this comment.

Emotional dysregulation has a lot to do with a pwBPD's lack of empathy. Difficulties with emotional regulation include problems with knowing what do when an emotion appears and emotional avoidance.

There are two types of emotional dysregulation for pwBPD: under controlling emotions and over controlling emotions.

When a pwBPD is over controlling/suppressing  their emotions, they seem cold, indifferent, distant, and lacking empathy. Over controlling emotions/suppression leads to a long lasting negative emotions, very low positive emotions, an inability to up-regulate positive emotions, and difficulty with communication. 

[FannyB]

Isn't the ability to feel empathy something a child acquires a little later on in their development? If the pwBPDs emotional development is arrested prior to this stage then naturally empathy is not something in their emotional locker. 

[dobie]

Isn't the ability to feel empathy something a child acquires a little later on in their development? If the pwBPDs emotional development is arrested prior to this stage then naturally empathy is not something in their emotional locker. 

I've seen empathy though not much but enough but when push comes to shove its her on the life boats first

[Beach_Babe]

If she's borderline, she has a conscience... .If she's narcissistic or sociopathic, then her conscience doesn't really exist.

This is what is hardest for me to accept.

[downwhim]

this is so painful. His lack of empathy and just sending out an emai that it is over... .no emotion. done. 8 years history. Sometimes I truly hate him.

[Mister Brightside]

If she's borderline, she has a conscience... .If she's narcissistic or sociopathic, then her conscience doesn't really exist.

This is what is hardest for me to accept.

Which part in particular? That your ex doesn't have a conscience (sociopath), or that he does (borderline) but is incapable of using it consistently?

[Infared]

It was the lack of empathy and the coldness in my ex fiancee  when I found out about her affair which shocked me the most.

I was crying my eyes out, devastated at finding out about her and she just looked at me, glazed eyed with no remorse, blaming me for her screwing around.

Needless to say she has never apologised for her actions!

There is a long line of us at the therapist's door for people subjected to this treatment... .and if my ex saw me writing this, it would give her some kind of sick enjoyment. I have seen the look of satisfaction on her face when she knows she is causing someone pain. (Me)

Aren't they just lovely creatures? (Sarcasm X 1000).

[hergestridge]

Isn't the ability to feel empathy something a child acquires a little later on in their development? If the pwBPDs emotional development is arrested prior to this stage then naturally empathy is not something in their emotional locker.  

Quite correct. There is certainly a tendency to over-analyze and read things into the BPD behavioral patterns.

[Dunder]

Lack of empathy and seemingly having no (or very little) conscience is classic of BPD. 

The worse on the scale of BPD (if there is such a thing, & I think that there is such a thing as a scale... .) then the less empathy there is exhibited. 

It has been my experience that any empathy is simply a way of manipulation by the BPD afflicted person.

As a psychologist recently explained to me, empathy is a learned behavior, it's actually a skill that's integral to childhood development that borderlines never acquired. When psychologists talk about borderlines lacking emotional maturity, this is one of those things that's missing, at least as it's been explained to me. They simply didn't learn how to be empathetic, which at first was hard for me to accept because I've always seen it as a hard-wired human trait.

[jhkbuzz]

Lack of empathy and seemingly having no (or very little) conscience is classic of BPD. 

The worse on the scale of BPD (if there is such a thing, & I think that there is such a thing as a scale... .) then the less empathy there is exhibited. 

It has been my experience that any empathy is simply a way of manipulation by the BPD afflicted person.

As a psychologist recently explained to me, empathy is a learned behavior, it's actually a skill that's integral to childhood development that borderlines never acquired. When psychologists talk about borderlines lacking emotional maturity, this is one of those things that's missing, at least as it's been explained to me. They simply didn't learn how to be empathetic, which at first was hard for me to accept because I've always seen it as a hard-wired human trait.

Yes, and empathy develops over time - beginning at age 2 or 3.  If their young childhood is traumatic, it makes sense that the development of empathy is impacted.

[Beach_Babe]

MisterBrightside: the sad realization that there may never have been a conscience at all. At least not for me.

[cosmonaut]

This is something that I think we can all learn from, and it's something that tends to come up often on the Leaving board.

I think we can sometimes make the mistake of expecting our exes to be able to maintain an impossible standard.  It's somewhat like expecting someone who has severe asthma to run a marathon.  It's only going to be possible with a great deal of training and effort.  They just can't do it otherwise.  This is how it is in expecting our exes to be able to regulate their emotions and control their reactionary, impulsive behaviors.  

What we often don't see is that to our BPD partners, their actions make sense.  We don't see what they could possibly be so angry about.  It seems completely irrational (and it often is), but to them it is very real and it makes sense why they are so angry.  They are hurt, they feel abandoned, they feel invalidated - whatever the reason, it makes sense to them.  And many people with BPD know that they are out of control, and they HATE it.  They hate themselves for it, and that only adds to the profound shame that they feel.  And so that just further feeds the vicious cycle for them.  This doesn't excuse their behavior, but it also suggests that they aren't doing it to us simply to be cruel.

Can we see that perhaps there might be a shade of gray here?  Sometimes we can also see that the situation isn't white, but it's not black either.  

[Reecer1588]

I wanted to throw my two cents in here.

We don't see what they could possibly be so angry about.  It seems completely irrational (and it often is), but to them it is very real and it makes sense why they are so angry.

I do not believe that there is more accurate advice than this to be given. It is absolutely spot on.

I wanted to write an addendum

In general, there are two different ways that I believe people in general problem solve, basically their "driving force" so to speak, what motivates their words and actions. For me personally, I am driven by logic. If someone says something hurtful, therefore I hurt. I am able to logically deduce that right now, I feel angry BECAUSE someone else said something. I don't "branch out" or blame the cosmos for my anger. I blame the specific event. My actions/feelings are driven by LOGIC.

But for many people, and I don't think I'll ever understand how this works because it's just so alien to me, they are driven by EMOTION over logic. I am not saying one or the other is better. Just different wiring. Maybe if someone is FEELING angry, therefore someone said something offensive to them. It's hard for me to describe myself because I am driven by logic, not emotion.

But for my ex, A, I know that things were always driven by her emotion at the time. If she was happy, well then she was happy for our entire relationship. She had always felt happy, there were no problems, and she's going to be nice to me. But if she's sad or emotionally dysregulated, well, everything must've always been bad. And she'll be mean. See? Driven by emotion.

[jhkbuzz]

I wanted to throw my two cents in here.

We don't see what they could possibly be so angry about.  It seems completely irrational (and it often is), but to them it is very real and it makes sense why they are so angry.

I do not believe that there is more accurate advice than this to be given. It is absolutely spot on.

I wanted to write an addendum

In general, there are two different ways that I believe people in general problem solve, basically their "driving force" so to speak, what motivates their words and actions. For me personally, I am driven by logic. If someone says something hurtful, therefore I hurt. I am able to logically deduce that right now, I feel angry BECAUSE someone else said something. I don't "branch out" or blame the cosmos for my anger. I blame the specific event. My actions/feelings are driven by LOGIC.

But for many people, and I don't think I'll ever understand how this works because it's just so alien to me, they are driven by EMOTION over logic. I am not saying one or the other is better. Just different wiring. Maybe if someone is FEELING angry, therefore someone said something offensive to them. It's hard for me to describe myself because I am driven by logic, not emotion.

But for my ex, A, I know that things were always driven by her emotion at the time. If she was happy, well then she was happy for our entire relationship. She had always felt happy, there were no problems, and she's going to be nice to me. But if she's sad or emotionally dysregulated, well, everything must've always been bad. And she'll be mean. See? Driven by emotion.

Absolutely.  And to take this "feelings are facts" dynamic a little further, pwBPD will actually remember events differently than they happened to bring the facts of the situation in line with their emotions.  My ex did this frequently, but I wasn't aware of this "feelings are facts" dynamic at the time - and I found her tendency to do this incredibly frustrating.  Now that I understand the disorder, I don't take it personally.