What will I achieve if I stay no contact?

[Bensonshays]

Mr. Brightside made this comment in a previous thread I started about a girl I was dating and suspected is a borderline:

Her motivation for everything you mentioned (flirting, fake texts, etc.) is to keep you at a distance in her life. Remember, borderlines fear abandonment to an extreme. So she's going to keep herself comfortable with you in her life at an arm's length, trying to confirm that you're still available. Play her game (flirting/not remaining no contact), and she'll feel comfortable. Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.

I still miss this girl terribly, so my strategy thus far has been to stay away from her until my emotions even out and I meet someone else. At that point I was going to gradually reenter the social circle I share with her, and maybe even befriend her. But if no contact pushes her to reach out to me before the things I mentioned above happen, I would rekindle the relationship if given the opportunity.

I know she has some baggage and is clingy and insecure as a result. But, frankly, that won't keep me away if that's really all I'm dealing with, and not a serious personality disorder. So the question is, should I continue to stay away from this girl if I want to get over her? 

[Mutt]

Hi Bensonshays,

I understand you miss her terribly and you can emotionally detach and there will be a time where you miss her less.

At that point I was going to gradually reenter the social circle I share with her, and maybe even befriend her. But if no contact pushes her to reach out to me before the things I mentioned above happen, I would rekindle the relationship if given the opportunity.

You're thinking about her needs and not yours.

What do you want?

[dagwoodbowser]

But if no contact pushes her to reach out to me before the things I mentioned above happen, I would rekindle the relationship if given the opportunity.

Besonshays: Rather give a direct response to you, I'll simply just give you my personal experience. I knew from get go she was BPD. I read a few things, but it was all clinical and sanitary. 1st time she dropped me I was convinced it was because of me, my issues, my behavior. She wasnt responding to Any pleading calls, texts or emails. I did this for several weeks. I found a few "relationship coaches" on-line and Youtube. I think one was Get Your Ex Back through No Contact. I really wanted it to work because after all I was convinced it was my fault. So I buckled down and did N/C, crossing my fingers. I dont know how I did it, but after about 20 days she reached out via text. Man was I stoked and excited! I waited a few days and responded back. Little by little the ball kept getting hit over the net. After about 45 days we were back on. I did things differently and believed everything was fine. 6 months later we had a what I thought was an insignificant disagreement. When I got home she sent me a B/U email. She was done, no more. This time I was more devastated than 1st b/u because I was really, really trying.

I was so badly hurt that I made decision it was over. I had my second chance and realized I had Not done anything wrong. This time I went into N/C for me. Fast forward about 40 days in n/c. She was emailing me, texting and drunk calling but I wasnt responding. However, her pleas were getting more and more desperate, crying, pleading and because of Empathy I finally caved. We met for coffee, the energy between us was intense and we had crazy make-up sex. Enter Recycle #3.

Fast forward 6 months, lots of promises, a few changed behaviors and the minute I let up on my boundaries she chewed me up and had regained the upper hand. Same thing. Small disagreement, she didnt get her way and she dropped me. This particular drop was super devastating cause I had just given her $500 2 days before to help her out. Didnt matter.

Anyway, there was one more Recycle after that and I came close to taking my own life as well as suffering a TIA, what is known as a warning stroke. I found this place and it really, really has helped me.

This time I am in N/C and it's been abot 40 days and she has already broken it.

But... .because of the intense harm and damage to my body, psyche and spirit... .this time I am staying in N/C... .not as a game, not as a ploy. For my own life.

Anyway, hope that gives you a perspective on N/C.

[Bensonshays]

But if no contact pushes her to reach out to me before the things I mentioned above happen, I would rekindle the relationship if given the opportunity.

Besonshays: Rather give a direct response to you, I'll simply just give you my personal experience.

Your story is very powerful and gives me pause. I don't have nearly as much history with this girl, but I blamed myself when things didn't work out, so I can relate to your experience somewhat. I'm not certain that she's a borderline, though. My therapist says she probably is and a lot of her behavior certainly fits, but the opinion of people here who weighed in is divided. It could be BPD or just immaturity and neediness on her part.

Moreover, I still miss her. I think about her almost constantly, nearly three months later. Believing that she has BPD gave me some closure, but now I'm rethinking my behavior while I was with her and considering what else in her life may have driven her away. I'm very, very confused in sum.

Hi Bensonshays,

I understand you miss her terribly and you can emotionally detach and there will be a time where you miss her less. You're thinking about her needs and not yours.

What do you want?

I want her back.

[Mutt]

Hi Bensonshays,

I understand you miss her terribly and you can emotionally detach and there will be a time where you miss her less. You're thinking about her needs and not yours.

What do you want?

I want her back.

Hi Bensonshays,

There are other boards you can participate in if you're not finished the Leaving Board is for exiting and detaching.

You can join staying https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=6.0

You can  join undecided https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=2.0

[Mister Brightside]

If you stay no contact, what you will achieve is gradual healing. This isn't easy, of course, because as you're aware, three months later, you still feel at a loss. Try not to worry. Not many people recover very quickly from a BPD relations***. The fact you're still struggling is much more common than not.

Breaking no contact, provided this girl is still "immature," (borderline or not) and acts the same way she did in the devaluation/discard stage, you'll reset the no contact timer, and be back at square one. It could be even worse, because you'd have more memories (places you went with her, things she said to you, etc.) to get over (more triggers).

I like the idea of finding a new girl and getting back into that social circle, not because she is in that circle, but because other friends of yours are in that social circle, and you shouldn't be cut off from them because of her. One thought that comes to mind though is, how good are these friends? I know they shouldn't have to choose sides, but I would expect good friends to support you, realizing this girl is crazy. Does she hide it around them?

[Bensonshays]

If you stay no contact, what you will achieve is gradual healing. This isn't easy, of course, because as you're aware, three months later, you still feel at a loss. Try not to worry. Not many people recover very quickly from a BPD relations***. The fact you're still struggling is much more common than not.

I was truly a mess for the first month or so. People could see it. I'm getting better, though. I think about her a lot, but it's not hindering me from fixing my issues, pursuing other women etc.

Breaking no contact, provided this girl is still "immature," (borderline or not) and acts the same way she did in the devaluation/discard stage, you'll reset the no contact timer, and be back at square one. It could be even worse, because you'd have more memories (places you went with her, things she said to you, etc.) to get over (more triggers).

I've thought about that and it's precisely why I won't break the stalemate. She'll have to do it, and make it clear that she wants back in. I think more time away will make this decision easier. It'll also increase the odds of meeting someone else.

One thought that comes to mind though is, how good are these friends? I know they shouldn't have to choose sides, but I would expect good friends to support you, realizing this girl is crazy. Does she hide it around them?

Some of them are pretty good friends; several reached out to see how I was after I bounced. They know what happened but I don't know how much they know. I never talked about the break up with anyone, knowing it might get back to her. So whatever they know they've heard from her. She hides it, whatever "it" is, very well. Before we got together I didn't have a clue she may have some unresolved issues.

The cutoff was entirely my choice. I stayed around for a month after she dumped me, but just being around the place where I met her and having to act like nothing was wrong was killing me. It's a music scene that we're all a part of. I take breaks periodically because I get burned out, so it's not unprecedented for me to step away, though stepping away this time was admittedly easier.

[valet]

I think that the idea of going NC partially for the reason that it will 'freak her the _____ out' is flawed thinking, punishing, and cruel.

If you are ready for contact and want contact, with no motivations or worries that it will be positive or negative, then I don't think there's too much of a problem there. Boundaries, of course, are mental. The physical boundary of NC helps us heal. It is a useful tool, and I wouldn't recommend breaking it unless you both WANT TO for yourself and are READY for it.

Why do you want to kindle the relationship?

[Dunder]

If you stay no contact, what you will achieve is gradual healing. This isn't easy, of course, because as you're aware, three months later, you still feel at a loss. Try not to worry. Not many people recover very quickly from a BPD relations***. The fact you're still struggling is much more common than not.

Breaking no contact, provided this girl is still "immature," (borderline or not) and acts the same way she did in the devaluation/discard stage, you'll reset the no contact timer, and be back at square one. It could be even worse, because you'd have more memories (places you went with her, things she said to you, etc.) to get over (more triggers).

I like the idea of finding a new girl and getting back into that social circle, not because she is in that circle, but because other friends of yours are in that social circle, and you shouldn't be cut off from them because of her. One thought that comes to mind though is, how good are these friends? I know they shouldn't have to choose sides, but I would expect good friends to support you, realizing this girl is crazy. Does she hide it around them?

I agree with Mr. Brightside. You sound very attached to her, attached to an image of her that probably doesn't exist, driven by something in you that you need to understand before you attempt to resume a relationship with a woman with an untreated mental illness. You are lucky that after a one-month relationship, you know what BPD is, and how much emotional pain it can cause in their non-BPD partners. Respect this disorder, she is not just a little neurotic, which is what I mistakenly believed more months.

[Skip]

Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.

  I'm not sure that counter mind games work - don't think withholding from her to punish her or manipulate her - it's generally like peeing in the wind.

Bensonshays, it sounds like if she contacts you, you will take the call. So in that sense, NO CONTACT only means you are not reaching out to her.

Not reaching out to her, right now, is good for you in a lot of ways:

: You don't want to appear clingy or needy. Most women will move away from that.

: If there is going to be any reconnection, it will only happen when her current relationship lulls

: Not reaching out will give you some space to get a better balance and perspective.

If she tuned around tomorrow and made herself completely available to you, in short order you would start developing doubts about her sincerity, the dependability of the relationship and you would soon be questioning the quality of the relationship.  All of these issues are buried under the rejection anxiety you feel. They will surface when that anxiety is lifted and that will happen with her re-entering your life or you having enough space for the anxiety to dissipate.

[Bensonshays]

I agree with Mr. Brightside. You sound very attached to her, attached to an image of her that probably doesn't exist, driven by something in you that you need to understand before you attempt to resume a relationship with a woman with an untreated mental illness. You are lucky that after a one-month relationship, you know what BPD is, and how much emotional pain it can cause in their non-BPD partners. Respect this disorder, she is not just a little neurotic, which is what I mistakenly believed more months.

I got my depression treated, after walking around undiagnosed for years, which I think is why I had the confidence to go after this girl. Getting represents a sort of milestone for me. So, yes, I am very attached. It's annoying, really. We got close quickly and things ended abruptly. I'm still trying to sort through what went wrong. Things happened so quickly that I couldn't even process them, let alone react properly.

[Bensonshays]

Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.

  I'm not sure that counter mind games work - don't think withholding from her to punish her or manipulate her - it's generally like peeing in the wind.

Not my motivation. I need to get a more balanced view of things,  whatever I decide to do, and NC is the way to get It.

Bensonshays, it sounds like if she contacts you, you will take the call.

It depends on why she reaches out. If she makes her intentions clear, then I'll re-engage her.

All of these issues are buried under the rejection anxiety you feel. They will surface when that anxiety is lifted and that will happen with her re-entering your life or you having enough space for the anxiety to dissipate.

Yeah, I just don't understand why she moved on so fast. I realize I'll probably never know,  but the rejection makes me feel awful. I've done so much to improve myself over the last couple of years, so I'm left wondering what she saw that she didn't like. This guy she fell back on followed her around like a needy puppy dog for a year, and she left me for that. So frustrating.

[Skip]

Yeah, I just don't understand why she moved on so fast. I realize I'll probably never know,  but the rejection makes me feel awful. I've done so much to improve myself over the last couple of years, so I'm left wondering what she saw that she didn't like. This guy she fell back on followed her around like a needy puppy dog for a year, and she left me for that. So frustrating.

You're personalizing this too much, I think.

You have a strong feelings that the only reason for this relationship failure was either you made a mistake or she is mentally ill.

30 days is just too early for a relationship to even set with most people and likely she wasn't set on you - forget about the words that were said. I can't stress enough how the ending of the relationship this early could be for any of a thousand shallow reasons.

[Mister Brightside]

I agree with those who have gone against my original comment of ignoring her to freak her out. I typed that days ago when I was in a particularly vindictive mood. My main point though was not to punish her, but rather to not let her use you to get what she wants (and with no reciprocation).

When you get used, it's difficult to not give them a bit of their own medicine (ignoring them). I realize no contact is for ourselves, not to punish them.

[Bensonshays]

Yeah, I just don't understand why she moved on so fast. I realize I'll probably never know,  but the rejection makes me feel awful. I've done so much to improve myself over the last couple of years, so I'm left wondering what she saw that she didn't like. This guy she fell back on followed her around like a needy puppy dog for a year, and she left me for that. So frustrating.

You're personalizing this too much, I think.

You have a strong feelings that the only reason for this relationship failure was either you made a mistake or she is mentally ill.

30 days is just too early for a relationship to even set with most people and likely she wasn't set on you.

I guess all I can do, then,  is keep moving forward. I've been so adamant about my mistakes because I said some cringe worthy things the last couple of days, and can't help but think I pushed her away as a result. I lost my nerve and let my emotions drive my behavior.

[Skip]

I guess all I can do, then,  is keep moving forward. I've been so adamant about my mistakes because I said some cringe worthy things the last couple of days, and can't help but think I pushed her away as a result. I lost my nerve and let my emotions drive my behavior.

Why not talk about it, here?  What happened?

[Bensonshays]

Why not talk about it, here?  What happened?

Right from the start,  she complained about my lack of texting, as I said in the other thread. I explained more than once that she needn't take it personally, I just couldn't text her back right away sometimes. That seemed to satisfy her, until the last week when she called me in a panic. She said I made her feel needy and annoying.

I could sense her pulling away,  so I placated her. I told her I would try to communicate more, and that I limited my texting and phone calls  because I didn't want our intrractions to get boring, that a little space was a good thing. I also told her this is why a few of my previous relationships didn't work. I think she took this personally. I then started texting her more frequently that same day. The next day she called back and dumped me - "I think we communicate differently... ."

I'm not sure how to interpret those comments, but I suspect that had I calmly stood my ground,  the relationship would have survived longer than a month. 

I also think that I could have communicated a bit more frequently without coming across as needy, which is what I was worried about.

But who knows what happened,  really? I do know that I'm going to pay closer attention to the next girl's personality so I can hopefully avoid these kinds of issues.

[Skip]

"I think we communicate differently... ."

You do.

My last three romances: one said I was too much of a planner, the other said I was not enough of a planner; one thinks I'm doing it right.  All three got the same "planning".  I tried but never satisfied the first two.

I'd read your ex's comments as "our styles are different" - most likely the difference goes beyond the text messages.  It happens, Bensonshays. 

It sounds like the model of healthy for you and for her are different.  She is insecure and maybe one of the things she needs in a man is someone to put her on a pedestal. Maybe she is only comfortable with this style.

[Dunder]

Why not talk about it, here?  What happened?

Right from the start,  she complained about my lack of texting, as I said in the other thread. I explained more than once that she needn't take it personally, I just couldn't text her back right away sometimes. That seemed to satisfy her, until the last week when she called me in a panic. She said I made her feel needy and annoying.

I could sense her pulling away,  so I placated her. I told her I would try to communicate more, and that I limited my texting and phone calls  because I didn't want our intrractions to get boring, that a little space was a good thing. I also told her this is why a few of my previous relationships didn't work. I think she took this personally. I then started texting her more frequently that same day. The next day she called back and dumped me - "I think we communicate differently... ."

I'm not sure how to interpret those comments, but I suspect that had I calmly stood my ground,  the relationship would have survived longer than a month.  

I also think that I could have communicated a bit more frequently without coming across as needy, which is what I was worried about.

But who knows what happened,  really? I do know that I'm going to pay closer attention to the next girl's personality so I can hopefully avoid these kinds of issues.

Benson, You were honest with her. You told her that the excessive texting was not good for the relationship, something that I and many people wholeheartedly agree with. You attempted to establish sensible boundaries, things that healthy people negotiate in relationships all the time. Makes perfect sense. You are now second guessing yourself because you feel like your honestly cost you the relationship. There's no way of knowing really why she left, but you can hold your head high knowing you said what you honestly believed. The alternative would be to tell her something she would want to hear in order to continue the relationship. And no one can know if that would've worked anyway. In the short-term, you may have kept her around telling her what she wanted to hear, but that seems unsustainable over the long-term. You were honest. You were reasonable. What you told her makes good sense and sounds emotionally mature.

[valet]

Who knows what would have happened if you had stood your ground?

You most likely dodged a longer-term situation that wouldn't have been healthy, in either case.

So, best case-scenario: you were incompatible and it just wouldn't have worked out; worst: you get sucked into something far worse than you could have possibly imagined, and then it just wouldn't have worked out.

Both sound unappealing to me!

[Bensonshays]

"I think we communicate differently... ."

You do.

My last three romances: one said I was too much of a planner, the other said I was not enough of a planner; one thinks I'm doing it right.  All three got the same "planning".  I tried but never satisfied the first two.

I'd read your ex's comments as "our styles are different" - most likely the difference goes beyond the text messages.  It happens, Bensonshays. 

It sounds like the model of healthy for you and for her are different.  She is insecure and maybe one of the things she needs in a man is someone to put her on a pedestal. Maybe she is only comfortable with this style.

You could be right.  Like I said,  she needed more affection than  I was prepared to give. But had I given it to her consistently, it would have driven her away, it always does, borderline or not. She was only satisfied, it seemed, when I'd make her work a little for my attention.

Not sure if it went beyond the texting. Our time together was awesome, which is why I'm struggling so much. She was needy in person, but seeing her facial expressions and hearing her voice made it easier to assuage to her concerns. 

[Mister Brightside]

On the subject of excessive text messaging, you're not alone at all here. I remember reading a guy's story on here a couple of weeks ago where he sent 20,000 messages to his ex-BPD in the span of only a few months.

You're really damned if you do, damned if you don't. I literally told an ex-NPD (a relationship I had before my ex-BPD; I really know how to pick them) that she was going to get sick of talking to me if she heard from me so much. This was in response to her telling me she wanted to hear from me more (sound familiar?). She then told me she loved talking to me and would never get sick of it.

That of course isn't sustainable. Being that we're objects to them, when we're shiny and new they don't want us out of their sight. But talking to them so much facilitates a quicker time period to us no longer being shiny and new. Essentially, it's a losing battle. Don't talk to them enough, they'll find supply elsewhere. Talk to them excessively, they'll get bored. No middle ground with those peeps.

[Bensonshays]

Who knows what would have happened if you had stood your ground?

You most likely dodged a longer-term situation that wouldn't have been healthy, in either case.

So, best case-scenario: you were incompatible and it just wouldn't have worked out; worst: you get sucked into something far worse than you could have possibly imagined, and then it just wouldn't have worked out.

Both sound unappealing to me!

Regardless of the outcome, I'm frustrated with myself for not sticking to my guns. If we really were incompatible,  and frankly I doubt it, I would have liked to be the one who made the decision after reflecting on it. Instead, she broke it off because of how she felt in the moment.

[Bensonshays]

You're really damned if you do, damned if you don't. I literally told an ex-NPD (a relationship I had before my ex-BPD; I really know how to pick them) that she was going to get sick of talking to me if she heard from me so much. This was in response to her telling me she wanted to hear from me more (sound familiar?). She then told me she loved talking to me and would never get sick of it.

That of course isn't sustainable. Being that we're objects to them, when we're shiny and new they don't want us out of their sight. But talking to them so much facilitates a quicker time period to us no longer being shiny and new. Essentially, it's a losing battle. Don't talk to them enough, they'll find supply elsewhere. Talk to them excessively, they'll get bored. No middle ground with those peeps.

That's sounds painfully familiar. In both our cases, I think the mistake was revealing our motivations. Instead of pulling back the curtain on my thought process, I should have stood up to her and then giving her a little more attention to keep her abandonment fears in check.

Maybe that wouldn't have been sustainable,  but I could have made that call at some point down the road, I think.

[Dunder]

On the subject of excessive text messaging, you're not alone at all here. I remember reading a guy's story on here a couple of weeks ago where he sent 20,000 messages to his ex-BPD in the span of only a few months.

That was me with the 20,000 text messages!  Ha ha, actually 20,626 to be exact in 8 months, about 80 texts per day. And she still complained that I didn't give enough.  26 days NC.

[Mister Brightside]

On the subject of excessive text messaging, you're not alone at all here. I remember reading a guy's story on here a couple of weeks ago where he sent 20,000 messages to his ex-BPD in the span of only a few months.

That was me with the 20,000 text messages!  Ha ha, actually 20,626 to be exact in 8 months, about 80 texts per day. And she still complained that I didn't give enough.  26 days NC.

Haha. Didn't mean to throw you under the bus there. Most of us are guilty of giving too much attention to these people. They're pretty addictive and/or require attention like you said. Good job on the no contact!

[Bensonshays]

On the subject of excessive text messaging, you're not alone at all here. I remember reading a guy's story on here a couple of weeks ago where he sent 20,000 messages to his ex-BPD in the span of only a few months.

That was me with the 20,000 text messages!  Ha ha, actually 20,626 to be exact in 8 months, about 80 texts per day. And she still complained that I didn't give enough.  26 days NC.

Haha. Didn't mean to throw you under the bus there. Most of us are guilty of giving too much attention to these people. They're pretty addictive and/or require attention like you said. Good job on the no contact!

I never bothered counting, but I know we were exchanging an abnormally high number of texts. The part that was frustrating, and you guys can probably relate, is that I would run out of things to say. I mean, not enough happens in day to justify 30 or 40 texts. I find it ironic that if she does come snooping around again, it'll be because I've paid her no attention for months. 

[Dunder]

On the subject of excessive text messaging, you're not alone at all here. I remember reading a guy's story on here a couple of weeks ago where he sent 20,000 messages to his ex-BPD in the span of only a few months.

That was me with the 20,000 text messages!  Ha ha, actually 20,626 to be exact in 8 months, about 80 texts per day. And she still complained that I didn't give enough.  26 days NC.

Haha. Didn't mean to throw you under the bus there. Most of us are guilty of giving too much attention to these people. They're pretty addictive and/or require attention like you said. Good job on the no contact!

I never bothered counting, but I know we were exchanging an abnormally high number of texts. The part that was frustrating, and you guys can probably relate, is that I would run out of things to say. I mean, not enough happens in day to justify 30 or 40 texts. I find it ironic that if she does come snooping around again, it'll be because I've paid her no attention for months.  

Mr. Brightside, You're awesome, no offense taken at all. It's better here under the bus than sending all those text messages!  

Benson, The great majority of the texts were sent through the Messenger Ap in Facebook, which keeps a running tally. To be fair, ours was mostly a long distance relationship so electronic communication was the most convenient thing, but still. To be honest, after 26 days of n/c I can't remember anymore what it was we talked about so intensely, but we did. I was under such a spell. A lot of it was just late night and early morning "you're so wonderful" nonsense. I can't tell you what a relief it has been not to have my phone always blowing up with messages at all hours of the day and night.

I should've been like you Benson, I knew it was crazy all these messages. If I had just set limits on this sort of thing I would have spared myself so much grief.

[dagwoodbowser]

That was me with the 20,000 text messages!  Ha ha, actually 20,626 to be exact in 8 months, about 80 texts per day. And she still complained that I didn't give enough.  26 days NC.

Day 46 for me. It took me several recycles and reading a Relationship Coach named C Wayne that it's always best to pay attentions to Actions. Most (80%) of what had me soo darn Idealized were the words that dripped and flowed out of her mouth like milk and honey. The other 20 were actions, but mostly negative or neutral. After multiple recycles I finally got it! I became more of an Observer of her Actions, still actively listening but drowning out the bs. I knew this last attempt was not going to work, but at least I fought a little and started putting up a few boundaries. The more I paid attention to her Actions, the more her words simply became drones of noise and while the texts were nice to get, it was more about knowing she was there. What helped me make a really strong stand this last time with her was I started "seeing" what she was doing. Inevitably, it really ticked her off that I was standing up for myself and she did what she always did which was Punish me by breaking up with me. One cant live life like that. Yeah, I care for her, but what kind of like and relationship is that?

Even know as I am exchanging these typed messages, they are mere Words. However, they may or may not have on impact on who's reading them. It's all on the perception.

[Bensonshays]

I should've been like you Benson, I knew it was crazy all these messages. If I had just set limits on this sort of thing I would have spared myself so much grief.

I don't know. Once she sets the hook, you're in for a world of hurt regardless of when she decides to yank it out. I'll never forget how miserable I felt after that final phone call. In six days I went from adored boyfriend to persona non grata.