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Author Topic: Why is she so upset I'm dating someone, even though she replaced me? ~  (Read 10694 times)
4Years5Months
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« on: May 02, 2015, 10:03:22 PM »

My BPDex girlfriend broke NC two weeks ago.  I wrote about it here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=275093.0;all

We were together 5 years, seven breakups, six recycles, all initiated by her.  We are on the seventh (and final) breakup, and I was replaced 3 weeks after she left me with the security guard at her job.

She broke BC because her new boyfriend commented on an old photo of she and I that she still had on her Facebook, so I received a notification.  She broke NC to apologize to me for his "childish" behavior, then made conversation about my life, her life... .and you can guess what she eventually asked.

I let her know that yes, I was seeing someone, and her tone went from cheerful and catching up to how she hates her job and is trying to move away with Mr. Replacement, who she has been seeing a month.  Her messages became more and more hostile toward me, lashing out at the girl I was dating ("I'm so not surprised!" until I stopped talking to her.

Then she sent me about 25 messages in a row saying how much she still loves me and how hard it is to know I'm seeing someone - even though she is seeing someone, too.  It was evident that she has a very hard time thinking of me and I'm an immense trigger.  Again, read the topic I linked to above for more.

I know BPDers don't think like nons do.  But this seems quite odd to me - if I met someone after breaking up with my ex and liked her, and dated her for a month and was enjoying myself, I wouldn't care if my ex found someone else.  This has happened to me numerous times with other exes - I move on, then hear she is dating a new guy.  Good for her.  I don't care.  Back to my current girlfriend.

My ex has done this before - in 2013, she replaced me with a college classmate she had known for six days.  She wanted to remain friends.  I wanted to detach, so while I was still friendly with her, I started dating a girl a week later.  I told her I was seeing someone, and she called me, blubbering (legit) crying, saying we cannot talk as long as I'm seeing someone.  Well, we ended up back together (5th recycle) so I guess you can see how it ended up with that college guy.

There are BPD traits in her behavior such as playing the victim ("We can't talk since YOU are dating someone!" but if she's SOO happy with my replacement and putting photos all over Facebook, why is she so upset at me seeing someone else?

Why does she care?

Full disclosure - the relationship with the girl I have been seeing has fizzled, and eh, I'm okay with it.  I haven't heard from my ex since that contact two weeks ago, so she doesn't know.
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2015, 10:16:26 PM »

4years, I am not BPD so cannot speak to that but am a woman so can relate my own experience from that perspective. 

It makes NO good sense but there have been quite a few times in my life that although I no longer wanted a particular ex, neither did I want him dating someone else!  Such silliness but so true.  That is a classic example of my ego run amok!
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2015, 10:25:35 PM »

Jealousy and ego are understandable.  But she showed legit hysterical emotions that I was seeing someone else.  She wasn't just mad, or irritated.  She was crushed, emotionally.

I suppose it also says something about my current replacement, too.
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2015, 10:50:06 PM »

4Years,

The new woman that you were seeing threatened the attachment (as your exSO sees it) between you and your exSO. It's the same concept being played out when you read that they, people with BPD, get jealous of/feel threatened by their respective NonSO's relationships with friends and family. Again, it is all about her, her wants and needs. My guess is that she wants you available for another recycly; that is why she asked about your availability. As you stated, her attitude changed when she learned that you weren't available, mini tantrum.

It's all about their actions. If she wanted you for a healthy, sane, unselfish reason she'd boot the new Mr. Shiny and be with you exclusively. We are supply. My BPDexgf wants me back so that she can call me and I will soothe her over the phone. Now, she has all of her BS wrapped in the guise of wanting a friendship, but, at the end of the day, all she wants is me as a soother.
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2015, 11:02:13 PM »

It has to do with a woman needing to control EVERYTHING.   It obvious, isn't it?
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2015, 11:03:13 PM »

Think attachments with borderlines; attachments and the fear of losing them are the core of the disorder.  So when you told her you were seeing someone it meant abandonment to her, the worst thing that could ever happen to a borderline.  And it wasn't rational thought, it was an intense feeling that came out of her subconscious, since the events that created the disorder to begin with happened very early in her development and got hardwired into her personality, before rational thought was possible.  Bottom line she's triggered, which caused the 25 messages worth of the pull part of push/pull.  So don't think rationally to try and figure her out, think deep, intense emotions she feels but doesn't know why or where they came from, and she can't soothe.  Sad when you think about it, but also an opportunity to experience her behavior from your current place in your detachment, which can help.  Has anything changed for you as a result?
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2015, 11:05:55 PM »

Think attachments with borderlines; attachments and the fear of losing them are the core of the disorder.  So when you told her you were seeing someone it meant abandonment to her, the worst thing that could ever happen to a borderline.  And it wasn't rational thought, it was an intense feeling that came out of her subconscious, since the events that created the disorder to begin with happened very early in her development and got hardwired into her personality, before rational thought was possible.  Bottom line she's triggered, which caused the 25 messages worth of the pull part of push/pull.  So don't think rationally to try and figure her out, think deep, intense emotions she feels but doesn't know why or where they came from, and she can't soothe.  Sad when you think about it, but also an opportunity to experience her behavior from your current place in your detachment, which can help.  Has anything changed for you as a result?

This is very accurate.
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 04:45:20 AM »

Mine wants me to meet someone   that's been the message since day one , that's the most devaluing thing I feel she has done its like she really does not care at all she just wants to not feel guilty .

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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 05:09:57 AM »

Arrested emotional development. Think of a child and their toys. If they get a new toy they stop playing with the old one and it gets put in the cupboard. They might not want to play with it but if one of their friends plays with it they dont like it. They guard it jealously.

They may not want you but they want to know your still in the toy cupboard in case they change their mind.
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2015, 09:22:08 AM »

4 years

The most ex girlfriends do not like to see you move on even if they have.  I have had issues with non BPD on this.  The difference is that an ex BPD will go to strange lengths to ruin your new relationship.  While a non will just quietly move on.  Part of it is because alot of women BPD or not will date a man because they dont like being alone.  Men are less likely to date for that sole reason, so if they are dating it really means they are over you.  You just need to tune her out because if you dont she will try to wreck you realtionship.

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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2015, 09:28:49 AM »

4 years

The most ex girlfriends do not like to see you move on even if they have.  I have had issues with non BPD on this.  The difference is that an ex BPD will go to strange lengths to ruin your new relationship.  While a non will just quietly move on.  Part of it is because alot of women BPD or not will date a man because they dont like being alone.  Men are less likely to date for that sole reason, so if they are dating it really means they are over you.  You just need to tune her out because if you dont she will try to wreck you realtionship.

Why do you think that this is true?
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2015, 10:19:29 AM »

I had a related phenomenon: Like you, we recycled several times. The first one was the longest at around a month as I recall. Not knowing anything about BPD or recycling, I went on my way and reactivated my membership on the dating site where I had met her. I didn't think too much about it other than realizing that she had dumped me and I needed to move on.

Upon the reconciliation, she brought it up and was absolutely crushed and livid that I would go back on a dating site. This really confused me as I think that it should have. I explained, "... .but you broke up with me. To me, that meant that it was over. If it was over, it was time for me to move on - you were not coming back". She never really said anything to this point directly but had a strange look on her face that best can be described as someone informed her that 2 plus 2 does NOT equal 6 mixed with anger at the person who insisted that it did. We never brought it up again.

It came up again on the final breakup through a common person, a frenemy as I can best describe her. I suspect that, again, she has stalked me on social media including dating sites and is, frankly, enraged that I would 'betray her trust' and so wantonly offend her in this way. 

I can also recall the feeling that I had when my ex-wife told me that she was going to remarry; it was a very mild sense of "that was my thing and even though I don't want to do anything with it any longer, it feels like someone is stealing it'. I was over that in a matter of a day. I think that this is not the same thing and, as most have mentioned, is more related to the deep attachment that they can never entirely shake (if at all) to the relationship partners.
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2015, 10:20:16 AM »

valet

The comment I made show that some things are traits of most women.  Not liking that there ex man has found someone new is a trait to most women have even if they did the breaking up and are seeing someone new.  As to why, being a male I dont get it, but people have written books about men and women not understanding each other.  As to why BPD  women go to the lengths they do.  Well its because people who dont have BPD accept reality better than those that do, and they control there impulses better also.
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2015, 12:46:47 PM »

Think attachments with borderlines; attachments and the fear of losing them are the core of the disorder.  So when you told her you were seeing someone it meant abandonment to her, the worst thing that could ever happen to a borderline.  And it wasn't rational thought, it was an intense feeling that came out of her subconscious, since the events that created the disorder to begin with happened very early in her development and got hardwired into her personality, before rational thought was possible.  Bottom line she's triggered, which caused the 25 messages worth of the pull part of push/pull.  So don't think rationally to try and figure her out, think deep, intense emotions she feels but doesn't know why or where they came from, and she can't soothe.  Sad when you think about it, but also an opportunity to experience her behavior from your current place in your detachment, which can help.  Has anything changed for you as a result?

I feel less attached to her than I did at the time of breakup (obviously) and when I heard she was dating a new guy.  Of course I still think about her, miss her, and love her... .but I made it very clear in the conversation linked to (separate topic) in my original post that she and I would NEVER be together again romantically, but I wasn't opposed to remaining friendly, and even being friends someday.  I also feel that way about her personally - meant what I said to her.  Perhaps that speaks to my level of detachment.

When this exact situation occurred in 2013 with the guy at college, all I wanted was for her to dump him and return to me as my girlfriend.  She did.  Now, I see that being her romantic partner is a very toxic thing.  There are certain expectations for the guy in that position that I don't want to have - because they are impossible to meet.  I DO realize that being a friend could and likely will bring up BPD fears and cause the push/pull as well.  But... .and this is where I know I should tread lightly... .I don't think it would affect me as greatly if she decided she didn't want to be my friend versus not wanting to be my girlfriend.

I've been going to therapy for the last month an a half, and at this moment, I feel detached from her on a romantic level, due to the pain she has caused me and would cause me again if we recycled.  But I don't feel FULLY detached from her, and well, her comments in the linked topic above show me she still NEEDS me.  And the fixer in me likes that.  And well, I feel like I can handle it as a friend, with that boundary.

It's not the first step on a long road to a 7th recycle.  Far from it.  I think about a recycle, and all that comes with being her boyfriend (soothing, sexual expectations, expectations for seeing her, etc.) and THAT makes me shudder.  Being a casual friend that talks to her every now and then?  Eh. 

That is where I am RIGHT now.  The day of the breakup, all I wanted was to hit reset.  The day I found out about my replacement, I just wanted a reset.  Now, I accept what she is, what we WOULD be if we got back together, and well, I don't want that.

But I do still miss her.


What does it say about Mr. Replacement if she's pouring her heart out to me like she did when we last spoke?  Read the link topic if you can to see what she said - it was more about how much she loves and misses ME than it was trashing the girl I was dating.  It's strange.  I've had immature exes trash my next girlfriend before, but THIS girl basically told me I was her soul mate... .and then how she COULDN'T be with me as a result.  BPD sucks!
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2015, 02:15:01 PM »

Excerpt
but THIS girl basically told me I was her soul mate... .and then how she COULDN'T be with me as a result.  BPD sucks!

Yes, it does suck, for all involved.  I did read your other post BTW, and her behavior sounds consistent with someone who is focused on attachments and feeling abandoned.

Think about a young kid, someone who runs away from her mother in a burst of rebellion, freaks out because of the distance, and then runs back and clings, then does it again.  That's the stage a borderline gets stuck, never quite breaking away to become her own autonomous individual.  So because of that she doesn't have a fully formed "self", so getting too close to you will cause her to lose herself in you, get gobbled up so she doesn't exist.  Much more manageable to keep someone at an emotional arm's length so the abandonment and engulfment fears can be managed, to an extent.

A transition to a 'friendship' after a long relationship is going to be tricky, for anyone, but especially for a borderline, and especially after what she said to you.  She will be feeling either abandoned or engulfed and the push/pull behavior will probably show up, so it will be up to you to be the voice of reason, and after 6 recycles, how reasonable have you been?  But anyway, it's possible, and if you guys can be positive additions to each other's lives that would be cool.  Take care of you!
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 03:58:25 PM »

So because of that she doesn't have a fully formed "self", so getting too close to you will cause her to lose herself in you, get gobbled up so she doesn't exist.  Much more manageable to keep someone at an emotional arm's length so the abandonment and engulfment fears can be managed, to an extent.

I can understand abandonment quite well with a BPDer.  I saw it in my ex before this last breakup... .although I think it was triggered by engulfment... .which I can't grasp, for some reason.

We went to New York in December, had a great time, it was literally perfect.  We didn't even argue, even playfully.  We were a unit.  We came back, and she began to detach.  I didn't like that and argued with her quite a bit.  I even left her alone for a week, didn't even talk to her... .something I have NEVER done while we were together.  I knew about her BPD, but I didn't allow myself to admit to being "the persecutor" and give in to her behaviors.  I stood up for myself.  I thought she would straighten up her behavior, but she felt abandoned and was even MORE distant when I contacted her again.  She said she was trying to forget about me... .rather than work on herself. 

Two weeks later, we were done.  So yeah, me not talking to her was the final trigger to push me away... .but I guess I struggle with WHY would such a perfect trip to NYC make her feel engulfed?  Or maybe it wasn't that, but it seems that way.  Why would such a POSITIVE experience make her feel that way?  Abandonment is a NEGATIVE emotion... .feeling loved and enjoyed is a POSITIVE one.

I struggle with understanding the engulfment fear.  I get "abandoning him before he can do it to me" but not how being treated well can cause someone to NOT want that person.  I feel like that is what is happening right now.  She loves me so much... .but she can't be with me.  And she has no explanation as to why.

I guess that's why I could see a friendship working... .no romance... .just a best friend she can turn to in life.  She will date guys, do her thing, and I'll do the same with women.  I would never abandon her in this scenario unless she does something horrible and unforgivable, and I don't see how I could "engulf" her if we aren't romantically involved.  There isn't that "next level" of commitment a relationship requires.
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 04:36:24 PM »

Two weeks later, we were done.  So yeah, me not talking to her was the final trigger to push me away... .but I guess I struggle with WHY would such a perfect trip to NYC make her feel engulfed?  Or maybe it wasn't that, but it seems that way.  Why would such a POSITIVE experience make her feel that way?  Abandonment is a NEGATIVE emotion... .feeling loved and enjoyed is a POSITIVE one.

I struggle with understanding the engulfment fear.  I get "abandoning him before he can do it to me" but not how being treated well can cause someone to NOT want that person.  I feel like that is what is happening right now.  She loves me so much... .but she can't be with me.  And she has no explanation as to why.

I guess that's why I could see a friendship working... .no romance... .just a best friend she can turn to in life.  She will date guys, do her thing, and I'll do the same with women.  I would never abandon her in this scenario unless she does something horrible and unforgivable, and I don't see how I could "engulf" her if we aren't romantically involved.  There isn't that "next level" of commitment a relationship requires.

Speaking standard borderline here, you decide how much is applicable to your gal, but before we are born and slightly thereafter, we can't distinguish between ourselves and our mother, which isn't a stretch since we are or just were inside her; to us we're one person .  Eventually it becomes clear, as we start exploring ourselves, our mother and the world, that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities, and when a toddler runs away from its mother, it's an attempt to be its own person, independent, flee the 'oneness' with the mother, but then the kid gets scared, fears abandonment, and runs back, fears engulfment, fears fusing with the mother again and losing 'herself', runs away again, playing yes, but also battling the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment.  When the kid gets frustrated with that and starts acting out, we call it the 'terrible twos.'  All of that is a normal part of development, on our way to becoming autonomous individuals with our own 'self'.  For a variety of possible reasons, a borderline never does that; they get stuck in that mode of running away, abandonment, running back, engulfment, push/pull, and as a result they never weather the 'abandonment depression' as it's called, go away and stay away for good, deal with it, grow through it, so they stop before a full 'self' is formed.

So flash forward to adult years, and borderlines get triggered by intimacy, that exact pattern that was playing out when they were tots, fear getting too close to mother and losing themselves.  Plus, an attachment was formed by mirroring someone, to attach to them by showing them the good they see in them yes, but also to assume those traits as their own, to counteract the bad they see in themselves.  So take away the mirror and what's left?  A self that is not fully formed, has a lot of shame, and doesn't feel worthy of connection with someone who appears to be an autonomous individual with a self.  So she didn't feel she could hold her own as an equal partner to you, she felt she wasn't enough, and if you found out who the real 'her' is you would leave, abandonment again.  So screw that, that doesn't feel good, time to deal with it by pushing away and distancing.

Like I said, standard borderline, but see if any of it fits.  Take care of you!
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 05:29:05 PM »

That's fascinating, FHTH.  Thanks.

I think it may have helped the situation that when she and I last spoke, she REPEATEDLY (over a dozen times) offered apologies for her behavior, and said I should hate her and never speak to her again.  I told her yes, I had been hurt, but I know she is a good person and I love her very much.  And I didn't hate her.  I was being truthful, not just validating her.  But she said numerous times (in different ways and directly) "It really means a lot for you to say you don't hate me."  I can only imagine how she thinks.  It's incredibly sad that she pushes away thinking I would somehow hate the "real" her - and it's funny, that conversation, all of that clarity, all of that honesty she gave me (the pull, as you said) was one of only a handful of times she was THAT honest - she usually deflects/projects other reasons for her behavior.  Nope, she was open and remorseful, and I was glad she was.

If only she could be that way all of the time, instead of just tossing me aside when she feels one of the fears.
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2015, 01:25:40 AM »

4Years,

You can't understand engulfment because you're a whole person (You have a complete self.). I don't understand the feeling of engulfment. I am thankful for that! BPD's abandon (push) due to feelings of engulfment (anti-intimacy), and re-engage (pull) due to feelings of abandonment. They will abandon their SO first if they feel that they are going to be abandoned by the SO, but that's not an abandonment of the push/pull cycle as I understand it. That type of abandonment is more of a sucker punch. If it was truly driven by their fear of abandonment, they would engage the SO to maintain the r/s (attachment). I believe their selfish emotional immaturity is more at play in the latter scenario, rather than strict BPD behavior.

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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2015, 07:34:42 AM »

Apollotech, I think that's where I made the mistake by leaving her alone with NC for a week shortly before our last breakup.  My thought process was "she told me she wanted to be with me forever... .if she knows I'm pissed, she'll stop acting like this and straighten up."  I thought... .if she fears that abandonment so much, she will do whatever it takes to keep me.  The opposite happened.  Instead of stopping the behavior, she emotionally just gave up and started the "we can't be together" process yet again.  I played with fire, and got scorched.  I underestimated her emotional ability to protect herself from hurt, like a turtle who sucks its head in and then slowly trots away.

I look at the guy she is with, the people she is hanging out with... .co-workers.  At a job she hated when we were together, and when she broke NC three weeks ago, still hates.  She worked with them, but didn't start hanging out with them (him included) until right before we broke up.  Now, she is posting Instagram photos with him and several individual co-workers.  They all use the same cutesy hashtags with their photos.  It's funny - when she was with me, she would complain about them, saying if she quit her job (which she desperately wanted to do) she would likely never see any of them again.  Now they are her best friends.  NONE of them were anything but co-workers six months ago. 

I sort-of think that the reason she hasn't "found another job" (she says she's applying for jobs in NYC, which I think is a 100% front to keep the "I hate my job" identity while, you know, keeping that job) is because that would take her away from those co-worker best friends... .that ecosystem she has created for herself.  Sure, they would all still want to be her friends, but not working with them every day would mean they may abandon her, right?  She has formed "close" friendships at pretty much every job she has had... .she will start hanging out with them, and then comes the "I'm the only person who plans anything/people always flake out" moment (I take this as a sign that it's HER who needs the constant attachment with these people and they don't need it that much) and then when she quits... .she may hang out with them one or two more times, but then they become Facebook friends and nothing more.  The same thing happened at a college bookstore she worked at 3 years ago.  Other than Facebook friendship, she doesn't talk with or hang out with ANY of them anymore.

I can remember having breakfast down at a eatery by one girl's house last fall.  She said, "I'm going to check in on Facebook after we leave, or else (girl's name) will come down here... .I don't want that."  Now, that girl is all over her Instagram.  Buddies.  Maybe it had to do with me.  I never met any of these people.  Of course, Mr. Security Guard Replacement knows all of them.  Maybe it was her way to attach and create a new identity of friends and relationships, but all within that work ecosystem.

What about that?  The attachment.  I know BPDers attach to a new partner quickly.  But friends as well?  Is it their way of creating a "family" for themselves of sorts?  And aren't all of them susceptible to the same push/pull fears?  I can't think of a single "best friend" my ex has had for longer than six months.  The friend she talks to the most?  A girl she met on a message board years ago.  They text and Facebook constantly.  And she has never met her in person.  Even when we went to NYC where the girl lives, "something came up" and they didn't meet.  Keeps her at a distance.  Am I correct to assume all of these new co-worker friends will flame out in her BPD mind at some point?

But you know what?  That's easy to do.  It's easy to just turn to the recently divorced security guard who has been basically hitting on her for months.  A guy she devalued to me, and still (again, when she broke NC) admits she has little in common with.  It's easy to suddenly "like" the group of co-workers she avoided when we were together.  That's what I keep telling myself... .that all of it was just right there for her to pick from.  They likely gravitated toward her as well.  At some point, won't the engulfment rear it's ugly head again?

The fixer in me wants to be the friend that none of those people, Replacement included, can be.  Even without my secret BPD knowledge (she refuses to believe she has a mental/emotional disorder and if she moves away her life will be perfect - a projection) I know her better than anyone else.  That probably scares her to death.  But most friendships are superficial fun ones that don't dig very deep.  When she broke NC she told me "I'm pretty close with a couple of them now" when talking about her co-worker friends.  Well, those will be the first to be discarded.
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2015, 10:20:56 AM »

 

I sort-of think that the reason she hasn't "found another job" (she says she's applying for jobs in NYC, which I think is a 100% front to keep the "I hate my job" identity while, you know, keeping that job) is because that would take her away from those co-worker best friends... .[/quote]
Have you considered that she hasn't found that other job because it would take her away from you? I think that the remarks she made in your other post would support that.
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 01:51:31 PM »

But she broke up with me.  And broke up with me BECAUSE she says she is moving away, like a preemptive strike of sorts.  I would say it's more because she can plan plan plan and talk talk talk, but cannot actually execute.  If you were to ask her how she is going to move to NYC, she will just tell you that she is getting a job and moving there.  General statements.

I do think it's just a projection - she isn't moving anytime soon.  It's her "golden ticket" she can hang onto that will lead to a better life.
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 03:17:22 PM »

My ex is like this. When I met her, she claimed that she was going to moved forward and get her PhD. Two years later: she was STILL going to do so but never even did as much as consider a college. Not like that was the only thing that she discussed that she was going to do, there were MANY things and she never followed up on any of them.

My exBPDfiance broke up with me too. She also blocked me and called the cops when I circumvented the cops. We have not spoken since last September. While it seems that I am painted blacker that a black hole in space, I am beginning to realize that what she has said and done does not necessarily reflect her intentions and her real wishes - I KNOW that she is hurting badly to this day. People say things in and out of relationships ALL of the time that are not at all true and meant nothing more than for public consumption or are a coping mechanism for themselves to say almost as if a mantra.

Yours is a little easier to make that conclusion about because there is some dialog between the both of you. The earlier thread of texts really speaks volumes about how she thinks about you. My opinion is that she CLEARLY loves and misses you and your security guard replacement is just a rebound. She can say that aliens landed in her front yard if she wants to (and she might as well be saying that right now), but she would not have admitted all of the things that she feels if she was still emotionally attached. The things that negate this, I suspect, are behaviors that are impulsive/.instinctive that I would venture to guess that even SHE doesn't understand hwy she does them.
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2015, 05:08:57 PM »

I appreciate that, JRT.

One thing she is doing with this replacement that she didn't with the other two is digging herself in DEEP with him.  She's Facebook friends with his sister and her husband, plus other friends of his.  Their relationship is very high profile at work.  If he's a rebound... .then she is really going the extra mile to make it seem like he isn't.  I keep telling myself that she was doing a lot of the same things with the other two replacements (Facebook photos, posts about the guy, etc.) but if she decides to end it with him, she's going to have a lot of cleaning up to do, I'll just say it that way.

Part of me thinks she is diving deep with him because well, I have been unavailable and will continue to be in a romantic capacity.  But her hooking up with him SCREAMS rebound - he was just divorced, she was just broken up with me, and well, that brought them together.  She said as much - "he was a good supportive friend.  An outlet for my problems."  Yeah, but that doesn't mean he should be your boyfriend, right?

Look, I'm speaking like the codependent fixer that I am.  But it was eye opening to see her act like she has her new love on social media... .then she messages me like she did.  And she was THAT upset by me seeing someone else.  As someone said in my other thread... .everything she says is indicative of how much she loves me... .so why is she NOT with me?  That's the painful reality of the disorder. 

I want my best friend back.  She has always been an incredible part of my life in THAT capacity.  I do not want her back as a girlfriend, not only because I would be discarded again, but also because it's EXHAUSTING being her boyfriend, she commands so much attention.  I feel like I can have a healthy balance as a friend, without those "requirements."
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2015, 10:49:20 PM »

I want to point out again that even the way that she is going about making friends with the relatives of the rent a cop might be for show or even a way of convincing herself that she is committed tot he relationship. Either way it doesn't matter; my ex unfriended each and every one of my friends and family before the end of the day. Within a week, she somehow convinced each and every one of her friends and family to do the same. This is easy for a pwBPD to do without any kind of remorse. Think of a small angry child insisting that they are going to go home and they are going to take their toys with them. This way they'll show YOU! Not stopping for a moment to think about the consequences.

Likewise, after you logically reacted to a breakup that SHE instigated, she is going out of her way like a petulant child to show you that she can host her own game and that she doesn't need you to participate. "Look, I am even making friends with his sister. Look how serious we are. I am even thinking about moving away with him... .see? I don't need you".  Except she DOES need you... .she misses you and had told you under circumstances where she shouldn't have. That string of messages must have took a LOT of courage for her! As you know, BPD are loathe to accept any responsibility for a r/s failure - matter of fact, its all YOUR fault.

Your an my situation have some overlap, where both of them precipitated breakups and did some nasty things after the fact that indicated contempt and hatred and that there was zero hope for any future with them so we moved on (or at least are trying to, but have shown that we have). In my case I have nothing more than a few supporting facts and an intuition to go on where yours was almost patently clear about her inability to shake her attachment (read 'love' of you despite being in another relationship and doing as much as she can to publicly profess that she is over you. I don't even think that this is a BPD behavior: I think that a lot of people that get dumped (lets forget for a moment that she did the dumping) do this very kind of thing... .isn't that a form of control as many of the other post b/u antics that some of them go through?

If there is one thing that I have learned of my 48 years of dealing with people both personally and professionally; what they might say and what they REALLY mean is often mutually exclusive. 
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2015, 11:16:05 PM »

"What about that?  The attachment.  I know BPDers attach to a new partner quickly.  But friends as well?  Is it their way of creating a "family" for themselves of sorts?  And aren't all of them susceptible to the same push/pull fears?  I can't think of a single "best friend" my ex has had for longer than six months.  The friend she talks to the most?  A girl she met on a message board years ago.  They text and Facebook constantly.  And she has never met her in person.  Even when we went to NYC where the girl lives, "something came up" and they didn't meet.  Keeps her at a distance.  Am I correct to assume all of these new co-worker friends will flame out in her BPD mind at some point?"

4Years,

I know that my BPDexgf does recycle friends. The only attachments that I have seen her permanently lose are with people that have walked away from her. Even under those circumstances, she still tries to maintain some contact with them. Looking back on it now, I truly see how desperate she was/is for attention/soothing; it's sad. I have seen mine attach to people very quickly---meet someone new and become best buds overnight, that is until the new bud shows that they actually are human, with flaws and everything. They do not have the capacity to be involved in a relationship of any kind for the long haul.

Like you, I thought about trying to reestablish and maintain contact with my BPDexgf. But, I cannot figure out what I'd get out of that. She isn't capable of maintaining a friendship as I define it. We cannot be romantically involved again. So, what would we be? What would the relationship be? What would be expected from both parties? I cannot answer those questions in my particular situation.
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2015, 11:43:39 PM »

My ex has always been a quiet/waif BPDer.  We have always been great FRIENDS... .it's the relationship that got in her way.  We can't be together because she's moving away, and thus we have to break up.  Projection of her disorder, but if we were simply FRIENDS... .she could do that and we could maintain contact.

I don't know... .I just struggle with it.  She was a big part of my life.  I would like her to remain part of my life, but at the same time, I'm an immense trigger.  You have read what she said to me during that moment of clarity... .

I just looked at her Instagram before posting this reply.  She has added several photos, one of which is a smiling photo with my replacement.  Okay then.  But she also deleted several photos, one of which was the sole photo of the two of us that she still had on there.  If you read my link in the OP, what initiated her breaking NC was the replacement commenting on the same photo of us... .just on her Facebook.  Interestingly enough, she didn't delete that one, simply hid it from HIM.  Of course, on Instagram, you can't do that.  I wonder if he saw it and asked her to delete it.  Or maybe one of those work friends saw it and brought it up, and she quickly deleted it.  But she also deleted a photo of concert tickets we were going to see before we broke up.  It's like she is eliminating any trigger that reminds her of me.  It's what she's doing at this exact moment.

I know she friended Replacement's sister and family during the NC phase with me, when all signs pointed to never speaking to me again, and she thought I hated her... .until I told her I didn't when she broke NC.  She still thinks I'm dating the girl I mentioned to her 3 weeks ago.  It's like (as JRT said) she's going extra overboard to reiterate she's HAPPY with my replacement.  And you know what?  If she truly is, then okay.  That's what I want for her.  It's not going to happen with me.  But evidence tells me she isn't truly deeply happy with him. 

That goes back to my original question in this topic - she wouldn't be telling me how much she misses and loves me if she WAS happy with him, right?  If she had bluntly rebuffed me and said "do not contact me again" I would have gotten the message.  But she has NEVER completely slammed the door on me, not once in 5 years, over 7 breakups.  And not now, either.  When we last spoke, she said she wanted to do it again, and that she was very happy we talked.  Time will tell if she meant that, or if it was a projection at that moment.

I guess I shouldn't expect her to dump this guy.  She needs the attachment.  She thinks I'm dating someone else.  Even if I wasn't, I told her we will never be together again.  Thus, there she is, smiling away.  I suppose if I would have told her that I missed what we had and wished it wasn't this way, we might be on the way to a recycle.  But I'll never know.

I DO know Replacement Rent-A-Cop feels threatened by me.  He commented on that Facebook photo (where I got the notification as outlined in the link on the OP) to get her to take it down.  He seeked out a 6 month old photo and passive aggressively bugged her to remove it.  She cryptically told me when we spoke, "For once, I'm the one having patience in the relationship (with him).  The tables have turned in a huge way."  I'm not sure what she meant by that, but at no point did she say she was madly in love with him, only that she "enjoyed the time (they) spent together."  Oh yeah, and he's moving away with her whenever she's ready, after dating her a month.

I've read that a BPDer wants a strong personality to ground and soothe them in a relationship.  I don't see this guy being the one to do that.  Perhaps that is why she keeps returning to me.  But I suppose that right now, for whatever reason(s), I'm a trigger to her.

I take solace in the knowledge that whatever she does with him - wherever she goes, the sex she has, the soothing, the life she now has - none of it is as good as it would have been with me.  And she's with someone who will NEVER love her as much as I did.  Perhaps that is why she reaches out to me.  The one line that has stuck with me from our last conversation is this:

"I feel so much comfort and normalcy with you. Not having that anymore is very sad for me."

Not having that anymore - with me?  Or overall?   
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2015, 11:58:13 PM »

-she appears to not have a future with the replacement (who was not compatible anyway)

-she is STILL thinking of you

-she has told you of her feelings and they are overwhelming to her (even though she puts on a show - for you and perhaps even for herself - to the contrary)

-she believes you to still be with her replacement

I would guess that she is setting up a recycle but doesn't think that she can. One way to find out is to announce your breakup with her replacement. I have $50 bucks that says she will be on your doorstep faster than greased lightening!
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2015, 08:45:43 AM »

4Years5Months,

What happened in the relationship with the new girl?
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2015, 09:47:26 AM »

So she didn't feel she could hold her own as an equal partner to you, she felt she wasn't enough, and if you found out who the real 'her' is you would leave, abandonment again.  So screw that, that doesn't feel good, time to deal with it by pushing away and distancing.

I went back and re-read our conversation from two weeks ago, it's still in my Facebook messenger.  I paid closer attention to how she phrased things, how she even used punctuation.  After 5 years of dating her and well, endless texting, I can tell things just by how she WRITES.

What struck me was (1) how often she acknowledged and apologized for her behavior toward me, and said she deserved to be hated, how (2) she repeatedly told me how grateful she was that I DIDN'T hate her, and (3) how she would repeatedly tell me how my new relationship was good for me, saying things like "You deserve someone who is settled and happy with where they are" and other variations on that same statement.  She said "You know me - I never know what I want, I'm unhappy with my life and it makes it hard for people to date me." 

With the last two breakups - using the "I'm moving away someday and you can't go with me" reason, she would regularly say "I don't think I can be the woman you deserve" and make other seemingly confirming comments as to how she doesn't want to be with someone with a child, doesn't want to live in our city, etc.  "You deserve someone who is settled and happy."  That is her identity - the victim - unhappy, not content, wanting a change... .always.

But when I really think about it, and when I put what FHTH said above into context... .it really does boil down to her self worth I think.  She doesn't think she's worthy of a relationship with me.  Again, reading between the lines (and commas and such) in what she says to me (in person and via text) shows a woman who feels the pressure and the pain of a BPDer, and it translates into thinking that yeah, eventually, I'll get tired of her.  And she uses "I don't know what I want and I want to move away" as a projected excuse to mask the fact that she hates herself.  "I deserve to be hated" is something she said (and still says) to me repeatedly.  So much of what she says while in the push-away phase is how I need to find someone else.  Never how SHE doesn't want to be with me.  We CAN'T be together, and I deserve someone who isn't her -someone who is happy, and I should go find her.  And when I find her, I'll be happy and not care about my ex anymore.  "You aren't dating anyone now, but you will eventually, and then you won't care about me."  And also, "your next girlfriend won't want you to talk to me, so that's why we can't be friends, either."  I'm supposed to hate her and move on and be happy with someone who is happy, not her. 

And I think that she hooked up with Rent A Cop (thank you, JRT) because she thought that is exactly what I felt.  He is just divorced, likely looking for the same attachment she needed.  And she can mirror him and not feel the weight of six recycles as she does with me.  But at some point, she can't keep spinning the fact that they have nothing in common (her words) as a positive.

Underneath all of that mess of emotions is an extraordinary person.  She is incredibly smart, articulate, and beautiful.  I guess that's why I want her in my life, but not as her boyfriend where she projects that pressure onto ME.  It has been said that it's nearly impossible to "handle" a BPDer.  She shows that with her incredibly high standards for relationships that are downright impossible to maintain.


livednlearned - The new girl and I went on several dates, and then it kind of fizzled.  We had a good thing going - romantic, kissing, holding hands, etc.  But she suddenly went cold.  She has a high profile political job and the biggest fundraiser of the year is this weekend.  I know she has been up to her eyebrows in that, and well, maybe that's why we haven't hung out in two weeks.  Or maybe she soured on me.  She hasn't told me that, but eh, I asked her to a movie and she hasn't acknowledged it.  We did text a bit yesterday and she told me how much of a monster this fundraiser is and that she feels brain dead as a result (her words). 

I told her that I could sense that and I have been giving her space as a result.  She said "Thank you, I appreciate the space."  Whether that means we will try to pick up after this weekend is up in the air.  But at the same time, I kind of don't want a girlfriend who is going to go AWOL whenever work becomes busy for her.  On thing my therapist said is that I allow others to make the decision when it comes to relationships - obviously, given my BPDex broke up with me seven times.  I can decide not to move forward too, you know - she said.  So with this girl, I like her, she fits a lot of what I need intellectually and personality wise (and she's cute, too) but barring some unprompted overture from her that she wants to continue seeing me, I don't see it sustaining.
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2015, 10:51:40 AM »

 "You aren't dating anyone now, but you will eventually, and then you won't care about me."  And also, "your next girlfriend won't want you to talk to me, so that's why we can't be friends, either."  I'm supposed to hate her and move on and be happy with someone who is happy, not her.  [/quote]
To me, this absolutely screams, 'Tell me I'm wrong... .reassure me".

Your ex is incredibly self aware. Has she been diagnosed at all? Has she been to a T?
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2015, 12:59:34 PM »

I reassured her every single time she would put herself down like that, in whatever capacity.  Yet during EVERY push away phase, she would say it was only a matter of time before I dated someone else and thus we wouldn't be able to talk.  But then she would always find someone first, because she would attach to a loser guy who wanted a girlfriend, or she would take me back after a week max.  The last two breakups, the replacement was a co-worker she could easily switch her attachment to.  I think her deciding to push me away was always it's own separate decision - the replacement was so she wouldn't feel alone.  I do not think she chose the replacement over me.  I hope that makes sense.  But when she attaches to the replacement... .there is no shame or guilt (yet) so she sticks with him.  The infatuation phase.

It was a constant struggle to continuously tell her how amazing she was to me.  She would ask me several times a week if I still loved her, simply because I hadn't verbally TOLD her that in a little while.

She has never sought therapy, and dismissed it when I would even casually suggest it.  She would admit to being depressed and sometimes slightly suggest wanting to try antidepressants, but that was it.  Probably 98% of the time, according to her, life would be instantly and 100% better if she could just move away.  Never appreciating what she currently had, finding joy in that. It was always about what NEEDED to happen in order for her to be happy.  Again, the problem is, all she does is TALK about doing that.  No plan, other than saying she's going to get a job and move away.  Can't we all say that?

I have spoken with two therapists, one when I was replaced in 2013, and now with this current replacement, and I'm currently seeing her twice a month.  Upon hearing my story, both therapists with no suggestion told me my ex shows strong signs of BPD.  Neither dwelled on it for too long and turned the conversation back to me, which is why I go to therapy I suppose.  But TWO professionals "diagnosed" her based on my story (both said they would never officially say a diagnosis without talking to the person, of course).

JRT, you aren't the first person to say how self-aware my ex seems to be.  She has never been a vicious, acting out BPDer.  Her shame is on full display if you are one of the few people (I am one of them) she feels comfortable saying those things to.  I think her NYC friend who she has never met and texts endlessly is another.  Rent A Cop and her current work friends?  They may hear her moan and complain, but that's just the surface with her.  I doubt she gets very deep with them.

I currently sit here kind of numb.  It helps to discuss my ex here, and well, ideally we can be best friends and co-exist in a non romantic capacity someday.  But I guess I struggle with the idea that she has told me how much she misses me, yet off she goes with Mr. Replacement.  I need to remember BPD and what it does to someone who suffers from it.  I'm a trigger, through no fault of my own.  And well, she contacted me two weeks ago after fighting with my replacement about me.  I guess I shouldn't assume I'll have daily conversations with her anytime soon. 

I look at the girl I dated and she's still in my life, but I guess it's disappointing that she is just kind of *shrug* about it all, whether her job plays a part or not.  I said at the time of finding out about Rent A Cop replacement that all I wanted was for my ex to truthfully tell me she loves me and misses me.  She did.  And yet, I still feel hollow.  I'm still a work in progress.  I want her to turn a corner and realize I'm important in her life, but eh, I need to be patient. 
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« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2015, 04:32:09 PM »

A mild update:

I decided to test the waters and e-mailed her (more discreet than text so my Replacement won't see it pop up on her phone)  - casually mentioning I found a movie of hers that we couldn't find years ago when we lived together.  Not in a "do you want this back?" kind of way, more of a funny ha ha look what I found kind of way.  She replied within 10 minutes, and jokingly said I should take it to the used movie store and sell it for $2.00.  She also said she "hopes everything is going well in (My name)land."

I wrote back and said things are changing, but didn't elaborate.  She wrote back and said she wants to quit her job, but of course is "applying at places" without anything specific, as always.  I wrote back and told her my daughter's mother is moving away and we are having to rearrange our custody agreement as a result - which is true.  It was a slight way to let her know I'll be more available... .again, seeing if she bites.  She wrote back and did say "When is she moving?  Are you mad about it?"  so at least she is asking about MY life.  I'm not mentioning my personal life unless she asks.  She's acting like she's avoiding that topic, which makes sense when she was so upset about it the last time we talked.

Anyway, this is all within the last three hours.  She couldn't bring herself to answer me a couple of months ago.  I'm going to cool it for a bit.  But it's interesting how she will dialogue with me.  Just casual conversation.  She seems a little short and distant, but maybe it's because I expect more from e-mail.  If we were texting, it would seem fine.  If anything, I'm keeping the waters friendly for if and when she wants to talk, but I can't force her.
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2015, 10:53:20 PM »



I currently sit here kind of numb.  It helps to discuss my ex here, and well, ideally we can be best friends and co-exist in a non romantic capacity someday.  But I guess I struggle with the idea that she has told me how much she misses me, yet off she goes with Mr. Replacement.  [/quote]
I wonder if it might be because that she believes that you are not single?

Your follow up post says a lot... .
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« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2015, 11:36:44 AM »

To update... .

My ex and I have continued to e-mail each other, although there has been no communication since Friday, she hasn't replied to me.  No big deal I guess.  I looked at her Instagram yesterday and she has deleted all but FOUR photos on her account.  She had about 140 beforehand.  She kept two photos of food, one of a coffee shop she took yesterday, and one of a bar she and I visited last year.  Quite random photos to NOT delete.  She deleted a photo of her and my replacement, too, it was part of the bunch she didn't keep.  I don't think there is trouble in paradise, but to delete 135 photos at once?  It's like she's having some sort of frazzled dissociation or something.  I have no idea how to explain it. 


The girl I have been seeing?  I went to the political fundraiser she was throwing on Friday.  I immediately felt out of place because I went as myself, and everyone there was part of some workers union or political action committee.  I'm just a dude, you know?  I tried talking to my girl, but she was obviously busy and running around, and I felt like, once again and as always, like I was imposing myself on her.  After about 20 minutes, I left. 

And I left by taking the stairs, as the registration table was very strategically placed right by the elevators.  It was some sort of comedy movie as I walked down 15 flights of stairs and opened a door to the hotel kitchen and slipped through a side exit.  I didn't say goodbye to her.  I felt bad, but man, I didn't want to be there, even with her in the room.  She did text me about an hour later, asking if I had left.  I said yes, and thanked her for inviting me.  Her response?  "Oh.  Well, okay."  That's one of the ONLY times she's shown any kind of emotional reaction to me.

I've decided that she isn't worth pursuing, as she is just too busy and occupied to fully commit to a relationship with me.  I don't want to be appointments on her calendar.   
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« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2015, 12:04:41 PM »

I have been having equally as promising dating experiences. It has been like sitting across the table from an inanimate object, a speaker on a podium or a parade of red flags! It ain't easy... .

As for your ex, not sure what would motivate her delete all of those photos but I am sure that it was an emotional episode for her - I think that SOMETHING is on the way for you my friend. I know that mine doesn't seem to be interacting with her friends and family too much. Together with her weight gain, I'm thinking that she might have retracted from social life. I've considered that she is occupied with a replacement but she made time for social media when she and I were together... .Hmmmmmm... .
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« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2015, 12:09:49 PM »

My ex has done this before - in 2013, she replaced me with a college classmate she had known for six days.  She wanted to remain friends.  I wanted to detach, so while I was still friendly with her, I started dating a girl a week later.  I told her I was seeing someone, and she called me, blubbering (legit) crying, saying we cannot talk as long as I'm seeing someone.  Well, we ended up back together (5th recycle) so I guess you can see how it ended up with that college guy.

There are BPD traits in her behavior such as playing the victim ("We can't talk since YOU are dating someone!" but if she's SOO happy with my replacement and putting photos all over Facebook, why is she so upset at me seeing someone else?

Why does she care?

Full disclosure - the relationship with the girl I have been seeing has fizzled, and eh, I'm okay with it.  I haven't heard from my ex since that contact two weeks ago, so she doesn't know.

I don't know if the why can be answered with any kind of a good explanation.

Most of what they do doesn't have a good explanation, they are just harming themselves and others around them.

But all I can say is this behavior is typical of BPD, I have seen it a million times.

Just another way to be controlling, manipulative, violate boundaries and want to have your cake and eat it too.
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« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2015, 01:13:47 PM »

JRT, I know she was out with her mother and sister yesterday (with it being Mother's Day, I assumed as much) and my replacement was NOT with them... .because I just looked at her mom's Facebook and she changed her profile photo to one with the three of them.  She's sitting in the back seat and took a selfie facing toward the front... .you can see my ex driving and her sister in the front passenger seat.  Mr. Replacement wasn't in the car.  And that's FINE - I'm sure he was with HIS mom yesterday.  But she deleted all of those photos when she was with her mom and sister... .again, it's completely perplexing to go through Instagram and do that so extensively.  Last night she had five photos and this morning she had four.  Which photo did she delete seemingly early this morning?  A photo of a cocktail.  It makes no sense.

Things could be fine with her and Rent A Cop, but at the same time, I don't just delete 140+ photos off of social media on a whim.  And keep only a few random ones.

Just another way to be controlling, manipulative, violate boundaries and want to have your cake and eat it too.

Zeus, my ex would constantly use the "having my cake" line when she would triangulate me and whoever my replacement was at the time.  And she, like in the "My BPDex broke contact after 2 months" topic, was quite self aware.  She would admit she was doing it, apologize profusely, say she felt terrible for hurting me... .but kept doing it until she knew I wouldn't leave her.  Then she dumped him and came back to me.  And she never talked about nor tried to change those behaviors.  Like JRT said, I feel like I'm watching a pot of water that has just been put on the stove top.  It will begin to simmer, then gradually roll to a boil, and then a recycle attempt will come.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But she hasn't shut me down like she did right when she started dating my replacement.  The door is open.
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« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2015, 01:28:27 PM »

Things could be fine with her and Rent A Cop, but at the same time, I don't just delete 140+ photos off of social media on a whim.  And keep only a few random ones.

I don't think that things are fine with her.
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« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2015, 04:17:45 PM »

4Years,

"My thought process was "she told me she wanted to be with me forever... .if she knows I'm pissed, she'll stop acting like this and straighten up."  I thought... .if she fears that abandonment so much, she will do whatever it takes to keep me.  The opposite happened."

That's a no win scenario---if you assert that your needs/wants be met, you're abandoned; if you just resign yourself to accept everything that comes your way then you're miserable. She put you into the position where those types of choices had to be made; keep that in mind. That responsibility lies with her.
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« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2015, 04:56:18 PM »

What's interesting is that when I'm dumped and replaced, all I want is to be back in that relationship - to have her again.  Well, after the last two recycles (I was replaced before each) within a couple of weeks I was back to being miserable, all of the pressures to please and soothe her.  Those feelings are what keep me from wanting her back.  I imagine it will be bliss, but after a short "re-infatuation" phase, it's back to loathing my time with her.

It's not so much wanting her back as it is wanting to know and see that she can't function without me.  That's why I want a recycle attempt - I guess that's why I want to be friends with her, too.  The codependent in me wants to be relied upon - but not too much.

I still haven't heard from her today.  Our e-mails back and forth weren't exactly hardcore chatting, so maybe she doesn't have much to say to me now, or at all.  I have no doubt that she would attempt a recycle with me or have a replacement for my replacement set up BEFORE breaking up with him, so I'm assuming all is well on that front.  But as you said JRT, something is off with her behaviors.
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« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2015, 07:09:19 PM »

I still haven't heard from my ex.  Oh well.  The other girl (one I was dating, then kind of wasn't) has been texting me quite frequently over the last couple of days.  I apologized to her for ducking out of her event last weekend (honestly it was a jerk move and I did feel bad regardless of how things have gone with her) and she has seemed to appreciate that.  I invited her out to a group thing this weekend (we worked together years ago and the gang is getting back together) and she accepted.  So maybe there is still a spark there.  She texted me last night about how she wants to work for Hillary Clinton's campaign.  Now, political opinions aside everyone!  But really, given her current position, she's pretty high profile in Democratic politics, and I can see it actually happening for her.  And I told her that.  And we talked back and forth about it.  I was astonished at how talkative (by text) she was. 

As an aside... .I have been periodically checking my replacement's Facebook profile.  He has virtually everything blocked on there, but I can see his friends list, and well, I've checked to see if my ex is no longer part of that - a sure sign of a breakup.  Well, she still was tonight, but amazingly... .he had 556 "friends" when I checked about a week ago. 

Tonight?  149.  He deleted/unfriended 407 people!  And I think we all know why he did.  Of course my ex is still on there, as are the 35 or so people they work with together.

I can remember when I found out my ex was dating him, I thought about what I would say to him if given the opportunity (hypothetically).  The very first thing that came to mind was ":)o you have a lot of friends?  Well, say goodbye to most of them!"  It looks like I was right.
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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2015, 08:13:11 PM »

hey 4Years-

I think it was about 2 weeks ago that the new gal didn't return a text or something, and you were wondering if you'd ever hear from her again?  I apologize if that was someone else.

Excerpt
So maybe there is still a spark there.

Not that you asked for advice, but you can assume there's a spark if she's texting you a lot, and now you get to decide if you want to be her girlfriend, her therapist, or her man.  Instead of getting together with her at a group event, invite her over to make dinner at your place, just the two of you.  A date is a fun-filled opportunity for sex to happen, and that's tough in a group.  Also, don't text a lot with her, get her on the phone, set a definite date, and then don't communicate until then; it builds anticipation both ways, and if she doesn't keep the commitment you don't want to be with a girl like that anyway.  Developing a friendship and hoping it will develop into more doesn't work nearly as well as going after her as a man goes after a woman he's attracted to right from the beginning, unless of course you just want her as a friend of course.

Unsolicited I realize, but it came to mind.  Good luck man!
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« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2015, 08:58:36 AM »

I appreciate that, FHTH.  However, my priority isn't to get laid, it's to see how interested she truly is... .to draw SOME emotion out of her.  I think this group deal is a good opportunity for me to focus on other people (and other women in the group) to see if she reacts.  She's notorious for flaking out in these scenarios, however.  When it's one-on-one, she has never cancelled on me.  We shall see.

I mean, yes, eventually I'll want to have sex with her, and I'm not concerned about how it will go if we do, but at this time, I want to know if she's interested in ME.

I will say that dialoguing with her (and other people) has made me care less about what my ex is doing.  Seeing my replacement unfriend 407 people on Facebook at one time tells me she's up to her usually methods with him, too.  Sorry, buddy!
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« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2015, 09:52:17 AM »

Excerpt
I will say that dialoguing with her (and other people) has made me care less about what my ex is doing.

And that's a good thing!  Good for you man, moving forward, and it's probably validating that your replacement seems to be going down the same rabbit hole.

Yeah, I get it with the new gal, you've been looking for some kind of interest or initiative from her for a while.  Our styles differ, and lately I've been very direct, something I wasn't with my ex and it resulted in pain, so I've swung the other way; if I was totally direct with my ex we wouldn't have lasted a month.  To me, talking to other women to see how she reacts is indirect, and I'd opt for telling her she's gorgeous and expressing some vulnerability, and see if she reciprocates.  If not I'd say you know what?  I'm trying to get closer to you emotionally but it doesn't seem to me that you're reciprocating, and I wonder why.  And see what you get.  Being direct like that is masculine and women appreciate it sometimes, because feminine energy is to be less direct, plus it's a big time saver.  There's my two cents, apply or ignore, as needed.
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« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2015, 10:02:20 AM »

I will say that dialoguing with her (and other people) has made me care less about what my ex is doing.

And that's a good thing!  Good for you man, moving forward, and it's probably validating that your replacement seems to be going down the same rabbit hole.

Yeah, I get it with the new gal, you've been looking for some kind of interest or initiative from her for a while.  Our styles differ, and lately I've been very direct, something I wasn't with my ex and it resulted in pain, so I've swung the other way; if I was totally direct with my ex we wouldn't have lasted a month.  To me, talking to other women to see how she reacts is indirect, and I'd opt for telling her she's gorgeous and expressing some vulnerability, and see if she reciprocates.  If not I'd say you know what?  I'm trying to get closer to you emotionally but it doesn't seem to me that you're reciprocating, and I wonder why.  And see what you get.  Being direct like that is masculine and women appreciate it sometimes, because feminine energy is to be less direct, plus it's a big time saver.  There's my two cents, apply or ignore, as needed.

The last two breakups with my ex were when I called her out on her behavior, without mentioning BPD.  She felt shamed, and rather than work on herself, just pushed me away and replaced.  This new guy must be a good boy, because she hasn't responded to my last e-mail.  Him deleting all of those Facebook friends shows he's on the eggshells already.  I shouldn't be surprised given his wife dumped him and filed for divorce in February.  And there they were, the happy Facebook couple, just two weeks later.  He'll do anything to maintain what he has with her, and I doubt because of the breakup of his marriage that he has the balls to stand up for himself.  At some point, that has to become boring for my ex, right?  Or is that the perfect position for a BPDer to be in, with a lapdog partner?  My first replacement told her he loved her, and she bailed two weeks later.  It should be fun to see her try and triangulate me in the future.  The other two replacements were young naive college guys who wanted a girlfriend. 

My new girl?  I've told her several times how much she impresses me (I congratulate her regularly on her political achievements, including this week) and I repeatedly told her to try and go for a bigger political job.  She seems to appreciate that, but at the same time, it's like she cannot show it.  It's almost like she's embarrassed to be told how awesome and beautiful she is.  Maybe that's the root of her lack of emotion.  She's quite the bitter person and jaded at times.  Maybe she's not used to hearing from someone that she has value.  I mean, the political work is full of fake smiles and gratitude - maybe she assumes what I say is artificial, too?  Eh.
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« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2015, 11:24:37 AM »

Excerpt
The last two breakups with my ex were when I called her out on her behavior, without mentioning BPD.  She felt shamed, and rather than work on herself, just pushed me away and replaced.



Yes.  borderlines feel great shame, and there's a member here named Conundrum who says he never, ever shamed his ex, they were together for years, and he seems to have a very good understanding of the dynamic with a borderline.  I didn't know any of that then, and I was just calling her on her bullsht because it was bullsht, but I now realize I shamed her, and what that meant to her was I saw through her facade, didn't like what I saw, and would therefore leave her, the worst thing that can ever happen to a borderline, abandonment.  Oops.  But I don't regret it because the option would have been to tolerate her crap, which got very, very old.

Excerpt
My new girl?  I've told her several times how much she impresses me (I congratulate her regularly on her political achievements, including this week) and I repeatedly told her to try and go for a bigger political job.  She seems to appreciate that, but at the same time, it's like she cannot show it.  It's almost like she's embarrassed to be told how awesome and beautiful she is.  Maybe that's the root of her lack of emotion.  She's quite the bitter person and jaded at times.  Maybe she's not used to hearing from someone that she has value.  I mean, the political work is full of fake smiles and gratitude - maybe she assumes what I say is artificial, too?  Eh.

Different styles again, but to me telling someone they impress you is something you'd say to a work colleague or a friend.  If I was romantically interested in someone I'd tell her she's gorgeous and has a great ass.  That has to be said with tact and congruently as a gentleman, but no beating around the bush, and even though she may be embarrassed in the moment she'll still like it, and will be thinking of you plenty later.  Women appreciate strength and direction from a man, feminine energy isn't directed, and it's up to us to penetrate that bitterness and jadedness so she can feel feminine and free.  Is she turning to her masculine side and the political work to give herself value externally?
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« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2015, 09:30:26 PM »

Is she turning to her masculine side and the political work to give herself value externally?

That may be the case.  I can talk politics and her job with her, but when I compliment her, she seems to be surprised, even a bit taken aback that I'm telling her.  An example:  we went out to dinner on a weeknight and she showed up in a dress.  Right when I saw her I said "Wow!  You look amazing!"  She sheepishly said thanks, then said "I was doing work stuff today" - suggesting she dressed up for work and not for our date.  I know that wasn't the case, but she couldn't take a direct compliment without deflecting it with an excuse.

A couple of times when we have made out, I've grabbed her ass, and told her how nice it is.  Again, she said something like "An ass grab is always part of the making out process" or something to that effect - again, a "No big deal" kind of attitude.

Again, at this point, I'm trying to get her to warm up to me and show a little bit of emotion.  When we talk on dates, it feels comfortable and natural, and when we make out, she's touchy feely and the kisses aren't close-mouthed, I'll say it that way.  But again, she isn't taking any initiative and asking to see ME.  Our last date was three weeks ago!  Busy or not, if I'm into someone, I want to see them, or at least TELL them I want to see them!  She isn't doing that, but she also isn't telling me no, or turning me down when I ask to hang out.

I want to have "the talk" about where she and I are going, but it's so start and stop with her that it never seems appropriate.

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« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2015, 05:09:15 AM »

It does sound a little weird from what you've told us 4Years; it seems you're actively showing interest and she isn't reciprocating, not clear why.  She's scared?  Insecure?  Not really that into you?  Obeying her own self-imposed rules?  Filling her life up with stuff to avoid a relationship?  In any case you're not getting what you need from her, and I agree, time for direct communication; good luck with that and keep us posted!
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« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2015, 01:42:36 PM »

DOUBLE UPDATE:

With the new girl, I went out with friends last night and invited her to come along.  She had an event she was going to, but said she was going to come out afterward.  It started pouring rain, and her event (outdoors) was cancelled.  I texted her to leave and come where I was, and she replied "I'm not driving or else I would, maybe."  Huh?  How was she going to come hang out if she didn't drive herself to begin with?  Another episode of showing interest, but not following through. 

I gave up on seeing her last night and decided to be direct, as several of you have suggested.  Sitting at the bar, I texted her,  "Want to go see a movie on Tuesday night?"  She replied almost immediately, "Which one?"  I was surprised she replied, but also thought, "why does it matter what movie?"  I told her I wanted to go see Mad Max, and she didn't respond.  Nor did she respond when we left the bar and I texted her where we were headed next.  Meh... .yet again, she shows SOME interest, but doesn't follow through.  Why even dip your toe in the water if you don't want to swim?  I feel like badgering her into saying no at this point.  I'm beyond fearing the rejection.

My BPDex?  Well... .

That night out I invited the new girl to?  It was a reunion of sorts with former co-workers that I organized.  My ex was (well, I guess still IS) part of that group, but obviously I wasn't going to invite her, or (likely) my replacement.  Both of us are still mutual friends with 20 people in that group on Facebook. 

I created a Facebook invite, and well, she saw it on one of those mutual friends' profiles.  And she e-mailed me.  All she said was,

"Perhaps I should show up at (name of bar) and ruin your party this evening?  ... .Nah."

Oooh, smell the passive aggressiveness!  I didn't respond.

Later, when we all gathered, one of my friends checked-in at the bar on Facebook and captioned the post "Reunion time with former (name of workplace) co-workers!"  My ex commented on that post "Sounds fun."  Yet again, passive aggressive.

So, it continues.  Apparently, I was supposed to tell her about this night out or something?  Did she not get the memo that dumping me and replacing me kind of disqualifies her from being asked to hang out with the gang?  I guess that plays into the original reason for this thread - why does she still care so damn much if she has dumped me and moved on?  Of course she would have been included had we still been dating.  But we aren't!

I still haven't responded to her.  Normally I would, but what good would that do for the situation?
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2015, 02:10:24 PM »

4Years,

I am certainly not telling you what to do with the new girl, but my rule of thumb with women has always been: If they do not take an active participant role in the date, or planning thereof, I am not interested. If I ask a woman out it's because I have an interests in her. If she accepts, I expect her to show an intetest in me. We're adults, no time for junior high games. Recreational dating, no thanks. Dating to get laid, no thanks. Booty calls, no thanks. If it ain't real, I'll wait. Quality over quantity.

You seem to be doing a lot of work for very little return?
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« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2015, 03:36:37 PM »

I agree with you and apollo 4Years: if the new girl was really interested in you, instead of asking which movie, she would have said something like "I'm glad you asked me, I'd love to, maybe we can go for a drink after?" or whatever.  This girl is either not that into you or she's following some rules of her own.  In any case, I wouldn't contact her again, and decide what you really want in the meantime in case she contacts you.  For me platonic friendships and hookups for sex are both fine, as long as that's what you both want, but this gal isn't showing near the interest in you that you are telling us you have for her, and life's too short to not be around raving fans.
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« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2015, 03:48:09 PM »

I have had women go on one date and then make up excuses for cancelling a second, or simply telling me no the second time.  I have done the same thing on my end, too.  It's part of the process.

I have never had a woman go on a first date, then a second date, then a third date (with each becoming increasingly more romantic), then somewhat agree to continue dating (I suggested the day after our third date that "next time" we should see a movie and she said "Yeah!" and then essentially dropping all of it like a fly. 

Maybe she met someone else.  Maybe she doesn't want a relationship.  Maybe she's indifferent.  But it's apparent that I'm more into it than she is.  I have given her several opportunities and she (like I said in my last post) dips her toe in the water, but doesn't jump.  I'm doing pretty much ALL of the work, and eh. 

I did just text her one last time and again directly asked to see a movie on Tuesday.  It has been an hour and she hasn't responded.  It's not that hard to just say no.

I'm very Type A.  If I want to do something, I try to do it.  I expect the same from my partner in return.  Maybe that's part of the reason I was with my BPDex for 5 years.
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« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2015, 03:52:40 PM »

She might be single because she is married to her career as well as being flaky as she has been. Either way, a word of warning about those involved in politics. A buddy of mine worked for a well know congressman. He worked for his government office but during campaign season (not just his own re-election), my friend would work from 7 in the morning until 1 or 2 in the morning OFTEN. It is a grueling gig that they subject themselves to... .very frequently, it does not allow for a romantic or family life. Just heads up for you to consider my friend.
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« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2015, 04:21:35 PM »

I acknowledge that her job is quite busy, and when she would vent about her lack of free time, I understood.  And maybe she doesn't want to be in a relationship as a result.  Okay.  But TELL ME THAT instead of dating me and making out numerous times and making it seem like it was leading somewhere.  And if it fizzles for you because you are so busy with work, then TELL ME THAT instead of semi-agreeing to hang out or making it seem like you will, then just not answering when I really press to do so.  Stop wasting my time, and well, yours as well.
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« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2015, 04:51:11 PM »

You're frustrated 4Years, and when we get in that mode we can get obsessed and over-pursue; I've done that too many times, and it's the wrong thing to do.  I wouldn't contact this girl ever, and if she contacts you and you still want to see her, I'd set a definite date, dinner at your place is much better than a movie, and if she's willing to not only make the commitment but follow through, maybe she deserves some of your time and attention, otherwise, there are plenty of others.
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« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2015, 04:59:03 PM »

You're frustrated 4Years, and when we get in that mode we can get obsessed and over-pursue; I've done that too many times, and it's the wrong thing to do.  I wouldn't contact this girl ever, and if she contacts you and you still want to see her, I'd set a definite date, dinner at your place is much better than a movie, and if she's willing to not only make the commitment but follow through, maybe she deserves some of your time and attention, otherwise, there are plenty of others.

This is the answer ^^^^. At this point (her seeming lack of intetest) if she wanted to see me/have contact with me, she'd do the work to make it happen. I hate to say this, but I already see a few red flags here.
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« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2015, 05:07:23 PM »

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This thread has reached its post limit. Please feel free to start a new thread to continue the discussion.
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