Can Your Myers-Briggs Type Change?

[fromheeltoheal]

I was ISTP (engineer, which is what I do for a living) when I took the test months ago, analyzing the breakdown of my r/s. People here said it. My T said that I was being very analytical about things.

Now I'm ISFP (artist), so now I'm more feeling than thinking. Therapy is a good career for ISFPs, which is what people have always told me I should do, including my T. The technologist/engineer thing is thus far a 22 year side track?

I don't think the I, S, or P will ever change with me.

How do you change your type Turkish?


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This thread was split from TEST: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator®

[Turkish]

I was ISTP (engineer, which is what I do for a living) when I took the test months ago, analyzing the breakdown of my r/s. People here said it. My T said that I was being very analytical about things.

Now I'm ISFP (artist), so now I'm more feeling than thinking. Therapy is a good career for ISFPs, which is what people have always told me I should do, including my T. The technologist/engineer thing is thus far a 22 year side track?

I don't think the I, S, or P will ever change with me.

How do you change your type Turkish?

Maybe being overly analytical was a type of dissociation at the time to cope with the emotional stress.

[fromheeltoheal]

I was ISTP (engineer, which is what I do for a living) when I took the test months ago, analyzing the breakdown of my r/s. People here said it. My T said that I was being very analytical about things.

Now I'm ISFP (artist), so now I'm more feeling than thinking. Therapy is a good career for ISFPs, which is what people have always told me I should do, including my T. The technologist/engineer thing is thus far a 22 year side track?

I don't think the I, S, or P will ever change with me.

How do you change your type Turkish?

Maybe being overly analytical was a type of dissociation at the time to cope with the emotional stress.

So you've found that now when you take the tests your type has changed?  Interesting.  I'm an INTJ and an engineer too, and I've found there's lots of room for artistry in engineering, they don't need to be mutually exclusive, although if therapy is your calling that would be a sea change, and just think how diverse your life experience will be!

[Turkish]

Definitely there is room for, even a necessity, for creative and artistic engineering types. Look at the difference between Woz and Jobs. Woz was the creator. I've worked with enough jobs types to make me cynical (I also have a personal bias against that company I won't say publicly even on a hidden board).

Anyway, people, even BPD mom have always said I could be a T. Starting over in middle age doesn't seem likely, though, with little kids to support. I'll be approaching retirement when they reach college age.

Then there is the "Life Coach" thing, which triggers my cynicism. I could probably lay out the basics of what anyone needs to do in an hour's conversation. I was chatting online with my exBIL the other night. He's graduating from the University of California next month. His uBPD sis (proxy mom for many years) put good effort in pointing him towards that path, but the credit should go towards him. I helped him fill out his college applications. I've given advice on women, of course dancing around the situation with my Ex. I've been giving advice on career and finances as well. He actually said that he appreciated me as a mentor, and too bad that I never had that (not as an insult, though we do tease each other sometimes as guys do). That felt good.

[fromheeltoheal]

Definitely there is room for, even a necessity, for creative and artistic engineering types. Look at the difference between Woz and Jobs. Woz was the creator. I've worked with enough jobs types to make me cynical (I also have a personal bias against that company I won't say publicly even on a hidden board).

Yeah, Apple definitely comes to mind when you think product design, and I know what you mean with Jobs types; I do some work for them, and the Jobs mentality permeates the place, the arrogance is disgusting, but I will take their money.

Anyway, people, even BPD mom have always said I could be a T. Starting over in middle age doesn't seem likely, though, with little kids to support. I'll be approaching retirement when they reach college age.

Then there is the "Life Coach" thing, which triggers my cynicism. I could probably lay out the basics of what anyone needs to do in an hour's conversation. I was chatting online with my exBIL the other night. He's graduating from the University of California next month. His uBPD sis (proxy mom for many years) put good effort in pointing him towards that path, but the credit should go towards him. I helped him fill out his college applications. I've given advice on women, of course dancing around the situation with my Ex. I've been giving advice on career and finances as well. He actually said that he appreciated me as a mentor, and too bad that I never had that (not as an insult, though we do tease each other sometimes as guys do). That felt good.

I spent a lot of time in the life coaching world a few years ago, and although it's buyer beware, I was pretty good at it, although it doesn't feel like a calling like it seems it does for you.  Yes, you can lay out the basics quickly, and I was good at giving folks a buzz and a burst of momentum, but it's the follow up that really needs the attention.  Things that are worth it take time, quick fixes don't work, so if someone has set some worthy goals that are going to take a while to achieve, a coach who checks in periodically is essential; I had people tell me they did what they said they would because they knew I was going to call and they didn't want to feel guilty.  Hey, whatever works.

Yep, the kids come first, and maybe there's a way to moonlight so you're doing both at once, and when the therapist role starts paying, make the shift.  You're doing quite a bit of therapy here, so you're already in the trenches, in a sense.

[eeks]

Lost a detailed post because it timed out.  In short, my understanding is that type does not change, even under stress people resort to using their tertiary or inferior function (google "cognitive functions" or their "shadow type" which is the reverse of their usual preference (eg ISFP/ENTJ)

www.timeenoughforlove.org/Notation.htm

www.similarminds.com/classic_jung.html

a more challenging read but useful

www.erictb.info/archetypes.html

[once removed]

fromheeltoheal,

i didnt comment on the earlier thread because i didnt want to be discouraging, i like the myers briggs, and my type has been the same every time: infp. but from what i understand, the test has been largely discredited, and respondents may change types literally within hours. so thats one way. another example is if id taken this test during recovery from a BPD relationship, or taking it fifteen years ago, or twenty, i think id have gotten different results.

as a less scientific argument, quizzes like these are open to interpretation. there are simply too many where i feel im 50/50 or might switch depending on how i feel about the circumstance. i understand the "art" to these quizzes is going with what you feel strongest in the moment.

in other words: i like the myers briggs, but ive heard some strong scientific arguments against it, and some of those arguments against it reasonably account for a type change.

[Turkish]

once remvover,

I personally don't attribute too much to it other than being an interestinng data point to consider for further analysis. It's an interstiing exercise, a way point, perhaps.

T

[going places]

I can see where you would answer questions one way... .for years... .and then experience a trauma that altered the brain (PTSD), and then coming back to the questions, months, or years later, and having completely different answers... .

[fromheeltoheal]

fromheeltoheal,

i didnt comment on the earlier thread because i didnt want to be discouraging, i like the myers briggs, and my type has been the same every time: infp. but from what i understand, the test has been largely discredited, and respondents may change types literally within hours. so thats one way. another example is if id taken this test during recovery from a BPD relationship, or taking it fifteen years ago, or twenty, i think id have gotten different results.

as a less scientific argument, quizzes like these are open to interpretation. there are simply too many where i feel im 50/50 or might switch depending on how i feel about the circumstance. i understand the "art" to these quizzes is going with what you feel strongest in the moment.

in other words: i like the myers briggs, but ive heard some strong scientific arguments against it, and some of those arguments against it reasonably account for a type change.

Thanks Once and I agree.  I always take lightly any attempt to categorize something as complex and diverse as human nature, and to me there's nothing scientific about it, just an attempt to put humans in predefined boxes to make life easier to understand.  But then the question, how does it make you feel?  To me it is a little uncanny that I've taken that test in several different contexts with different questions, and I'm assuming in different states of mind, and it always comes up with INTJ.  So I dug some, read books on the type, and I was reading about me, to a T, and found it validating and centering, which felt good.  And then I read that Schwarzenegger, Christopher Hutchins, Nietzsche, Tesla, Newton, Stephen Hawking, Jodie Foster, Julia Stiles, and Bobby Fischer are all considered INTJ's as well, folks whose accomplishments and/or personalities I admire, so I got to feel good again, about the group I'm put in.  Then I read that Lenin, Marx and the Unabomber are in that group too; oh well, maybe they remind me of my dark sides.

And really it was an attempt at external validation, which worked, it's all about the feeling.  I let what my ex thought and said matter way too much and she really got under my skin, coulda gone all Unabomber on her but instead I just left, and on the way to learning how to self-validate again I needed to get it externally.  So what's next?  Here we get to be "nons", which doesn't help much, I'd rather focus on what I am than what I'm not, but I can also compile a list of identities and roles I'm proud of, so let's build this life, on bedrock instead of quicksand this time.

[eeks]

fromheeltoheal,

i didnt comment on the earlier thread because i didnt want to be discouraging, i like the myers briggs, and my type has been the same every time: infp. but from what i understand, the test has been largely discredited, and respondents may change types literally within hours. so thats one way. another example is if id taken this test during recovery from a BPD relationship, or taking it fifteen years ago, or twenty, i think id have gotten different results.

as a less scientific argument, quizzes like these are open to interpretation. there are simply too many where i feel im 50/50 or might switch depending on how i feel about the circumstance. i understand the "art" to these quizzes is going with what you feel strongest in the moment.

in other words: i like the myers briggs, but ive heard some strong scientific arguments against it, and some of those arguments against it reasonably account for a type change.

I have had a several year interest in systems that purport to understand human personality type, as well as growth and development (MBTI and its variants, Enneagram, astrology, tarot, I Ching) and I don't treat any of it as scientific (this IS who I am because of THAT and it won't change), but noticing the progression through themes that is common to these different models is the interesting part to me.

The natal chart wheel, with the signs/houses going counterclockwise from the left is a good template... .the progression from personal to universal.

I also wondered for a long time whether trauma could change type... .for instance I used to be pretty bold socially, then I was bullied at school, and I think that made me more susceptible to my parents' anxiety, and I do wonder sometimes whether I'm really an E, when I usually test I.

But then when you compare the MBTI with cognitive functions (see links in my previous post), you get a different picture.  The typical 16 type test will ask you things to determine how "outgoing" (or not) you are in a general sense... .but really, using the example of INFP vs ENFP, I would still use the same functions.  They just change order, from Fi Ne Si Te, to Ne Fi Te Si.    What that means is each function's relative strength and dominance, how good I am at using it.  And this is a good time to add that these are preferences, not traits.  We all possess all 8 functions. 

So in this example, the first things the world "sees" in me will still be N and T (because those two functions are still oriented outward, aka extroverted) but I'm tending to rely more on Ne than Fi, which makes me "seem" more extroverted (because i'm using more of an outwardly directed function).  Make sense? 

That doesn't prove or disprove MBTI, I was just giving an example of how it's not necessarily as simple as "I used to feel and now I think."  The other thing is, for example, if someone tends to be very emotionally reactive, that doesn't mean they're an F type necessarily, they could have tertiary Fe that's not yet well developed.  I've heard different things, some say during stress people rely on the tertiary function, or the inferior function, or they switch to "shadow" type (e.g. INFP will act like the worst tendencies of ESTJ)

And although we all have a "starting point" in our personality (a mix of genes and environment), the goal in my view is always integration, becoming more whole. 

I like dream analysis for that.  They say that the shadow shows up in your dream as the same gender as you (because it's your identity), but I'm not convinced it always has to be.

1) Obese roommate who stole my condoms to go and sleep with all the men at my workplace, (she was looking at me with a lascivious grin while stuffing them in her bra) I was angry because she was going to ruin my reputation

2) I could get into a party that was the who's who of business and entertainment, but I had to go with Kanye West.  Nobody else wanted to go with him.  I was trying to scheme how I could get in with him, and then somehow make it look like I wasn't there with him.

Big attitude, big appetite, not caring what others think... .Se (extroverted sensing)!  Which makes complete sense since the only thing I am relatively confident about about my type is Ne dom or aux (first or second position) i.e. xNxP.  so if Ne is strong, the opposite way of perceiving/taking in data from the world I expect to be less prominent.

[eeks]

I was ISTP (engineer, which is what I do for a living) when I took the test months ago, analyzing the breakdown of my r/s. People here said it. My T said that I was being very analytical about things.

Now I'm ISFP (artist), so now I'm more feeling than thinking. Therapy is a good career for ISFPs, which is what people have always told me I should do, including my T. The technologist/engineer thing is thus far a 22 year side track?

I don't think the I, S, or P will ever change with me.

How do you change your type Turkish?


___________________________________________

This thread was split from TEST: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator®

In that lost msg I had written a bit more about cognitive functions, and how it's unlikely that you would change from an ISFP to an ISTP because that would mean your dominant function would change.

ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te

ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe

F and T switch from first to last, and in opposite orientations (Fi/Te - Ti/Fe).  At least according to the theory, this seems unlikely because your dominant function is the one that comes natural for you, you can easily rely on it in the world.

Again, according to the theory, you'd know whether the one that comes easiest for you is to... .

- make decisions based on whether they fit your internal systems of logic, the way in which you organize the data you take in (Ti)

- make decisions based on your internal feeling, your values and convictions, what "just feels right to me" (Fi)

And this from the erictb link might help you figure out your inferior (4th) function

IxTP's might feel inferior in humane (personal) matters (including one's standing in social groups).

IxFP's might feel inferior in technical (impersonal) matters, such as regarding logical organization.

How we project it onto others:

IxTP's Appear insensitive or unfeeling and openly complain about FJ types.

IxFP's Criticize other's organization

According to cognitive functions, it's not whether you feel or think (we all do both) but how well you use thinking or feeling to operate in the world (we all have more or less developed functions)

[fromheeltoheal]

Wow eeks, you've gone deep with this stuff, impressive.  The way I see it the 8 functions are on 4 continuums, and we're one end or the other, or somewhere in between.  The results I've gotten from the various tests are all somewhat middle of the road, heavier on intuition on the intuition-sensing continuum, and I can see myself operating in all 8 functions in different times and situations, which has made it cool that the tests peg me as INTJ every time.  Crafty those questions, although I agree, there's nothing scientific about it for me, it just feels good to be 'accepted' into a box of like-minded folks, something I, and INTJ's in general apparently, have always struggled with.

[once removed]

first i messed up the quote function and made a post that didnt contain my reply, and now i dont see it.  

"Thanks Once and I agree.  I always take lightly any attempt to categorize something as complex and diverse as human nature, and to me there's nothing scientific about it, just an attempt to put humans in predefined boxes to make life easier to understand.  But then the question, how does it make you feel?  To me it is a little uncanny that I've taken that test in several different contexts with different questions, and I'm assuming in different states of mind, and it always comes up with INTJ.  So I dug some, read books on the type, and I was reading about me, to a T, and found it validating and centering, which felt good.  And then I read that Schwarzenegger, Christopher Hutchins, Nietzsche, Tesla, Newton, Stephen Hawking, Jodie Foster, Julia Stiles, and Bobby Fischer are all considered INTJ's as well, folks whose accomplishments and/or personalities I admire, so I got to feel good again, about the group I'm put in.  Then I read that Lenin, Marx and the Unabomber are in that group too; oh well, maybe they remind me of my dark sides.

And really it was an attempt at external validation, which worked, it's all about the feeling.  I let what my ex thought and said matter way too much and she really got under my skin, coulda gone all Unabomber on her but instead I just left, and on the way to learning how to self-validate again I needed to get it externally.  So what's next?  Here we get to be "nons", which doesn't help much, I'd rather focus on what I am than what I'm not, but I can also compile a list of identities and roles I'm proud of, so let's build this life, on bedrock instead of quicksand this time."

its funny, i like labels, i like taking personality quizzes, political quizzes, all kinds, but ive never met one i like. the majority are simply too black and white for my taste. there ARE legitimate psychological personality inventories, therapists and psychiatrists use them all the time. im just mentioning that the myers briggs is frequently misrepresented as one of them. not that anyone here is doing that. its used pretty commonly by businesses for job applicants and almost certainly should not be. so my point isnt to avoid taking it, or even thinking it fits you. i first took it in tenth grade, a handful of times since, infp every time. and while id like to see some percentage (ie someone being 55% "P" and 45% "J" its a label i accept as very fitting. the label "introvert" in particular. it looks like some famous writers, jrr tolkein, cs lewis, jk rowling, edgar allen poe, shakespeare, are infps. also john lennon and kurt cobain. some other musicians i hate and wont mention but are popular . fictional characters like doug funnie and rocko. feelings of validation are mixed. validated in the sense that i agree and it fits. not especially validated by any of my infp relatives   . kinda cool that we are only 2% of the population. maybe less validated about that percentage thing i mentioned. im tempted to believe my J and P have gotta be as close as possible to 50/50. ill accept intuition over sensing. im not sure how i feel about thinking vs feeling. some of this could make me sound more practical than i necessarily am. im not sure if intuition contradicts or rectifies that. i guess what im saying is while i accept some predominance of infp, i think it might be barely. but as much as i complain about the black and white nature of some of these tests, i suspect i used one of these four traits to arrive at my answers  

also to be even clearer, i wasnt even trying to suggest that these results are dangerous or even misguided. in fact i think the job recommendations are great and useful tools. the scientific criticisms (you can google em) are largely about the organizations that so widely use them, rely on them, and treat them as scientific.

edit: makes me curious as to how these things apply to wise mind vs rational mind.

[fromheeltoheal]

Thanks Once.  Being all new to this, I thought Myers Briggs was loftier than it is, apparently, but I have gotten value, and it's piqued my interest.  Do you know the names of the psychological personality inventories that mental health professionals use?  I suppose I could go see one and have him 'do me', but it's casual interest at this point. 

To me MB is 4 continuums, all of which make sense, and considering where I am on them in most situations, and considering what the other end of the spectrum is, is very thought provoking for me.  Thanks for your insight.

[once removed]

after writing a mostly unhelpful reply, i googled "clinical personality tests" and id recommend the entire first page. youll find a slew of them.

edit: oh. the helpful part is that the majority of them cannot be found online and usually cost some money to obtain access to. i actually, after a long search found one, and did not have the foggiest clue how to interpret the results, which are to be done by a professional anyway.

[fromheeltoheal]

Thanks Once, a googling I shall go.  All industries have a language and proprietary stuff, and I don't plan on going too deep, but I'm motivated and it's fun.

[once removed]

hey, lemme know where ya get with it. i think a lot of the ones on the first link, personality-testing.info(?) are more available online and more easily readable. im not sure which or how many are legit, but with a quick glance it seemed like most of them were. i wanta say the narcissistic personality disorder index is one ive heard of. the one i was referring to was very literally written in a foreign language. there were not key terms and descriptions, but a million abbreviations and charts. i dont think all of them are quite as difficult to interpret.

[once removed]

extra note: checked out the links. im pretty sure the mmpi is the one im referring to.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes mmpi seems like the gold standard, lots of versions, and apparently hard to find online.  Seems it needs to be administered by someone who knows what they're doing too, but there's lots of info on it online too and I'm going there.  Thanks Once!

[Infern0]

I went from infp to entp

It was the biproduct of removing my codependency.

[Circle]

I am not sure if someone already mentioned this. I am pretty sure that the Meyers-Brigg Personality Test that was posted, to take, on bpdfamily, is a shortened version of the real Meyers-Brigg Test. The real one costs money to take and is much longer. As it's much more detailed and lengthy, you get a much more accurate result. The concepts would be the same, along with the general idea.

     I think that would explain the shift in results more than anything. A short version simply wouldn't be that accurate. Because it's less accurate, your results are going to change. Also, if you have taken the real, longer version in the past, your results are going to differ from this short one. I took the real one, at a career counseling center; it was definitely different than the shorter version posted on bpdfamily.