I got triggered again

[Hmcbart]

I tried to remain calm but just couldn't hold back.

She came upstairs last night asking about a bowl in the sink. She didn't come out and say it was mine but she didn't have to the way it was phrased. I went down stairs to see what she was talking about.

I realized that it was our sons bowl from breakfast on Monday. I got upset that she would do all the dishes except that one because she thought it was mine. Thus is something we had gotten into it about a few weeks prior.

I flipped out and I know I shouldn't have. I told her she was worthless and I couldn't believe she would do all the dishes except the ones she thought were mine. It continued for a while until I finally couldn't take it anymore. I asked if we could talk about it tomorrow because we were both very upset.

She came back into the room about 3 minutes after I asked to talk about it tomorrow. She began asking if I was going to pick the kids up from school and not gone back. I have no idea where this came from. It's the 2nd time she said something like this. I've never threatened to take the kids and leave and I never would.

I got very upset when she was asking me this. I felt like I was being accused of threatening to take off with the kids. So of course I got triggered again.

I told her last night and this morning that I am sorry for what I said and I should have never called her worthless. I am truly sorry for that but I can un-ring that bell.

This back and forth has been going on for a few months now. I guess it just escalated last night to the point of me exploding. I know I'm guilty of saying that to her and I can't change that. I can forgive myself for it over time but I know she will not.

If we make it until next Thursday we have MC set up. Of course this is a great way for her to make everything out to be my fault.

What's next?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

First of all, forgive yourself as we are only human, and doing all the dishes except one is petty and immature IMHO.

As to dishes, what the heck is it about pw BPD and dishes? My H and my mom will not do them. Maybe it is something about serving others that diminishes them in their minds.

Think of all the historical/Biblical spiritual greats who served others. That doesn't mean we become doormats, but since when does a kindness to others diminish anyone? Maybe in BPD land... .

I also think that pw BPD's pick fights when they are feeling frustrated about something, then, they can blame it on you. Look who is apologetic and sorry here? You. She picked the fight, and now, you can be blamed for your part, while she gets to be the poor victim.

For more info about how these things work, google the Victim Triangle.

You already apologized, but no worries, she'll hold this over your head till the end of time   But take it as a lesson. Next time this happens, imagine a nice juicy worm on the fish hook of argument. Don't take the bait. Soon, this kind of thing might diminish when you don't react to it, giving her the payoff of being a victim. Don't react to crazy accusations either, they are what they are: crazy.

[cloudten]

I'm sorry for your troubles... .sounds like a page out of my life.

Are you in therapy at all as an individual for yourself? It might help you address your triggers. Also, I have found that MC is more like a blame game. We do better as a couple with our individual therapy... .each working on ourselves. MC is only a he said/she said battleground where nothing gets accomplished... .imo.

[Hmcbart]

I have forgiven myself for what I said. I am more upset at myself for allowing it to happen.

I knew it would yesterday. I came home early because I wasn't feeling well. That's never good here. The only ones allowed to be sick are her and the kids. If I'm sick, I can't do things for them. She always treats me worse when I'm sick.

I almost went to a hotel and told her I had to work over night because I knew this would happen, but I opted to come home.  

I know that this episode and lasts Friday's will be her main topic in MC next week. I need a crash course on how to focus my topics during MC. This is the first one with a new person. The last one didn't work out after he told her she had to make some changes on her part and start attending to my emotional needs as well.

Can anyone come up with ideas on how to focus the MC so as not to get lost in her victim status?

I do fear that after last night it won't matter too much. I have a feeling that as soon as the MC starts to talk about things being equal she will be ready to quit. I may be moving to the leaving board, I guess I'll know more next Thursday.

[Hmcbart]

Cloudten:

I am in therapy for myself. She went one time for her a month ago after I told her she needed to see someone for her. Mainly her reluctance to be intimate with me. I'm thinking Sexual Anarexia but I'm not a doctor or therapist.

The first MC we went to was a total blame game the first 3-4 sessions. I accepted my role in it and even took most of the blame. When I asked her to return to MC after about 8 months of me doing everything she asked of me and her doing nothing, that's when it shifted.

It was no longer her blaming me for everything but now her having to answer for not following through with the things she agreed to in therapy. Then the victim role came in and she wouldn't go back.

This time I choose a female therapist to remove the "two guys forcing a girl to agree to something she doesn't want to" victim option.

She was very resistant to the idea of going back originally. She threw all kinds of road blocks up to stop it from happening. Once she realized I wasn't going to give up she agreed and now says that she was very happy that I brought up going back to MC.

She even started doing things around the house. She actually asked me one evening if I wanted her to cook something for me for dinner. I didn't know how to respond to that one.

Of course that didn't last long. I suspect that the battles we've been having are manufactured by her to be able to show how mean I am to her. And yes Wendy, I bit the stupid worm each and every time.

So now I get what I wanted, which was for us to go back to MC. I just don't have a dog in the fight at the moment because of my reactions after being triggered. I guess it's true what they say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

[Notwendy]

I think it depends on the marriage T. My H refused to go for years, went one time and then walked out because it was "me and the female therapist" ganging up on him. However he refuses to go to a male T, as talking about his feeling with a man ( or woman as he hardly does anyway) isn't "manly" to him.

it finally got to where he agreed to marital T when I was at the end of my rope with him and he didn't want that. He would only agree if I found a T was committed to keeping couples intact. We did, and he likes her. She does not allow MC to become a blame game. I was angry when she put the focus on me and my being co-dependent and not him, but this route seems to be more effective as he does not perceive her to be a threat to him.

Had marital T become a blame thing to him, he'd have walked out the door. Perhaps the T focusing on you is a way to move the marriage in a better direction rather than focusing on your wife's behavior. As to getting them to do things, this is very strange to me. My mom doesn't do anything like cook, clean, dishes. My H acts like that is all beneath them. Yet they both like to be "waited on" like we are servants. My mother loves to tweak me into doing all kinds of things for her, like she is the Queen and I am her maid. My H will not do dishes or straighten up the house no matter what, although he does take care of his own stuff. That dish thing that your wife did would cause WWIII in our house if I did that to my H over his dish. I just do the dishes.

[Notwendy]

I think you have done all you can to apologize. My H ( and mother) has said far worse to me in a rage and then, once it is over, act as if nothing happened. I imagine your wife will not let this go but you don't have to apologize over and over and be remorseful over every thing you ever did.

You could consider applying their "magic erase solution " to this and go on as usual, regardless of what she chooses to do. I don't advocate for being deliberately cruel, and not apologizing, but you lost your temper, and then apologized. There doesn't seem to me to be much more you can do.

With my parents, the smallest slight- talking back- was the end of the word -resulting in us being the WORST kids on the planet. But mom could be outright abusive and the next day, we had to pretend nothing happened.

You didn't do the worst thing in the world, IMHO.

[Hmcbart]

Thank you Wendy.

It helps to hear from someone else. I did do a little bit of JADEING this morning when I was apologizing yet again. I doesn't change anything and isn't an excuse but I told her that she has said things to me that cut just as deep if not deeper. My words are just direct and to the point with no way to confuse their meaning.

Her words are veiled and designed to have an out. She will say something with the intention of hurting you but in a way that gives her the ability to say "that's not what I meant" and "you took it the wrong way".

She asked me to give her an example of this but I didn't want to prolong the battle. I just told her she was right that she never says anything to me as bad as what I say to her.

To a normal person I didn't do the worst thing in the world but to her it was. Sadly perception is reality, especially with her.

After her comments about how she was afraid I would take the kids and leave, I'm fearful that she could do it. She's made the statement before when she was upset with me. It's relatively new but it scares knowing she has the thought in her head.

The last thing I need is for her to call the cops on me because I have the kids with me. Even if she knows I'm not going to take off with them or I told her I was picking them up from school. I have zero trust for her actions right now and I am picking the kids up after school today.

It was planed last week because she is going to our oldest sons education therapy assessment meeting after school but I'm still a little uneasy.

[Notwendy]

The kinds of statements and accusations your wife makes are very hurtful. Through therapy I have learned not to be reactive to them and defend myself after all if they are not true then I have nothing to defend.

Accusing you of taking thr kids is just nuts. I suppose she could call the police but that could also appear crazy. You have the right to pick up your kids and go about your business like any parent. If she did call the cops - then a lawyer could intervene and she could be charged for the accusation.

You're human. You got angry and apologized. You haven't committed a crime even if she behaves otherwise- that's her choice.

[Hmcbart]

Sadly the statements she makes hurt just as much as the things I say to her. I'm the one go got angry so in her mind what ever she says is justified by what I said. I've never been good at this game.

And being human and getting angry does not count is her world. The punishment for my crime will be the same as for any other. It doesn't matter what it is there is only guilty and innocent. In her mind and mine I'm guilty of saying something to hurt her.

That crime carries a punishment of silent treatment, excessive criticism, belittling comments, withholding of affection and intimacy (there really wasn't any of these to be missed), and she reserves the right to use this as justification for anything she says or does to me.

The punishment for asking her to help me clean the house back in April was the exact same. It's either black or white, no gray area to be seen.

This is really getting old.

[Notwendy]

One idea is to deal with the "behaviors" that she doles out as "punishment". I've been on the receiving end of all of them, the worst for me is the ST. My H has done this for days over what I consider to be minor, or even, imaginary slights. Don't get me started... .

The last time he did this, I had been in codependency 12 step groups and relied on my sponsor to get me through an entire weekend of ST, where my H acted completely wonderful to my kids while acting as if I was invisible and then an awful long car trip home, just the two of us. I think I called her constantly to support me through it, but I got through it, and now, believe it or not, the ST doesn't get to me, and he doesn't do it anymore. Not because he would change but because it IS punishment (abuse) and if it doesn't work to hurt me, then he has no use for it. This doesn't mean he doesn't act out or rage at time, he does, but thanks to the support of a sponsor, they don't have quite the effect they did.

They use these things because they keep us in fear, but really, they are also in fear. If you are in personal T, maybe the T can help you not hurt so much during these times.

I couldn't change my spouse, but I was able to see which of my behaviors were reinforcing some of his behaviors.

[formflier]

 

Quick thought... .she seems to like to use verbal stuff... .to suck you in... .

Think of it as "tossing a fight stick on the floor"... .sort of.  Because she leaves an out to explain it a different way.


Been there... .done that in my r/s. 

She knows what she is doing... .and doesn't need it explained to her.  She "gets something" from it when you pick up the fight stick... .even with you try to nicely "point out" to her... .that she is doing something wrong.

In my r/s... .it has worked out best to just leave that stick on the floor. 

Sometimes... .when I am on top of my game... .I can go with "help me understand... ."... .and find some emotions to validate... .

Lately... .I've not been on top of my game... .so I just ignore it.

And... .yep... .I've let a couple zingers fly... .that now I wish I hadn't.  Worst... .was that I was very loud... .public and clear... .when I told the entire family that my wife broke "her deal" and brought a kid into our house (long story)... .when it was supposed to be family time (no outsiders).

I do feel bad about it... .but I can't unring that bell. 

Nobody in the house has spoken about that kid... .and he hasn't been seen since in the house.

Not the way I wanted to go about it... .but... .the results are what I was after.

Forgive yourself... .

Apologize once... .and then never discuss it again.

FF

[Hmcbart]

If you are in personal T, maybe the T can help you not hurt so much during these times.

I don't think hurt describes the emotions I'm going through at the moment. It's probably closer to anger. At her and at myself for letting it get to me.

Quick thought... .she seems to like to use verbal stuff... .to suck you in... .

Think of it as "tossing a fight stick on the floor"... .sort of.  Because she leaves an out to explain it a different way.

FF

I pick that stick up way to often.

I am pretty sure this is what she will use to diffuse any concerns I have when we go to our 1st MC with the new person. I am not a fortune teller but I'm pretty sure it's going to be something along the lines of "alli did was ask him about the bowl in the sink and he started cussing and telling me what a worthless person I am".

I feel like I have single handedly given her all the ammo she needs to keep the MC focused on what a mean horrible person I am and how she is the victim in all of this. If she isn't doing this on purpose and her actions over the last few weeks are all because of BPD, then it's even scarier.

The fact that she can be this good of a tactician and not be actually trying! I really hope she is actually planning these moves out in advance. That's at least a little more comforting than her doing it without even thinking about.

[Notwendy]

I hope your T is aware of the dynamics of these things and also that there are two sides, and two people contributing to the issues.

What can happen is both spouses hurling accusations at each other.

One tactic I have heard of in a courtroom is when one lawyer baits the plaintiff or defendant to the point where he (she) looses his cool and then says " see, I rest my case".

She may make up all kinds of thing, retell the story in any way she wants, paint a picture of you as the biggest ogre on the planet. However, you don't have to defend something that isn't true.

This is just an idea, but if you don't take the bait, act calm and collected, don't defend fake accusations, don't retaliate with blames at her, the T might get two different pictures- the one your wife presents, and the one in front of her.

If you get into it, then your wife may say "see what he does to me?"

If the T asks you why, simply calmly tell the story as it is. Your wife complained to you about one plate in the sink, she washed all the others, this pushed your buttons, you said things that you are sorry about and you apologized.

[Hmcbart]

Thanks for the help on this. As you may have already surmised, I don't have anyone else to talk to other than my therapist. No friends to call and vent to, really just me talking to me most days. Having people on here really helps.

I have so much in my head that I'm worried about going to therapy an just dumping it all out at once. The last time we went to therapy it was at her request. Because I wasn't doing enough around the house to help her.

At least that was what it came down to... .my fault. The real reason was that she had just verbally abused the h3ll out of out then 10 y/o son, and it was all done on my voice mail while I was out of town for work.

That's when the self harming started. She went to therapy to get help for her anger issues. By the time we both started seeing the therapist for our marriage she had already been several times.

The blame shifted from her actions to mine. She was treating our oldest son this way because of the way I treated her. Then she added in how my ADD was also causing her all kinds of issues. I admit I get distracted easily but if I can hold down a job for 12+ years and make six figures a year doing it, my ADD isn't that bad.

I didn't say much during the first few sessions, I just listened and accepted that it was all my fault. That was before I found this place and started to learn more about what I'm dealing with.

The emotional abuse, the controlling nature, the withholding of affection and anything else I may want as punishment for my perceived slights. Those are the things I never really noticed. I guess I finally woke up when I was given a voice in our MC. I never realized that a marriage wasn't supposed to be one sided.

Sadly I'm old fashioned and believe that as the man of the house I'm supposed to suck it up and deal with. Emotions are for women not men. It's not until you realize what you've been dealing with for so long that you get to understand what things should be like.

After all of this, I am finding the only emotion that keeps coming to the surface isn't love at all, it's anger. Anger that I let this happen for so long. Anger that I was too blind to see what was going on. Anger that I let her do the same things to our kids. Anger that I'm powerless to stop her if we do get a divorce and she moves 6 states away.

I'm so screwed up mentally now that if we do divorce, I'm never going to be in another relationship again. I don't trust anyone with my feelings anymore. Hell I probably have even developed my own BPD after 20 years of this crap. I think I'd much rather be an alcoholic right now than deal with this. I'd get drunk but I am too damn responsible and have to work tomorrow.

That's was venting, no response needed, but thanks for listening.

[formflier]

 

Vent away... .I've done it before... .will do it again.  Lots of support here when you need to vent.

So... .MC "tactics"... .

Shy away from telling detailed stories... .trying to prove your version.  In fact... .you may be better of not "telling stories".

Focus on asking MC to guide you to to mutual agreement about how to compromise... .how to discuss issues so that neither person is triggered... .how each person can show respect to the other and not interrupt... .that kind of thing.

Focus on the future... .NOT ... .the past.  It's not a court session. 

Don't think of your wife having ammo... .to shot you down... .or prove you are wrong.

don't pick up the stick

In fact... .might be a good idea to talk about "how to make up"... .how to get back to "normal marital relations".

Don't accuse her of being the problem... ."we" need help... .etc etc.

Hope this is drawing a picture of what I think would be a good way to start.

Thoughts?

FF

[Hmcbart]

I like it.

How can we have a discussion without making each other feel,like we are being attacked.

How can we move past an argument without harboring negative feelings for long periods.

We need help communicating with each without becoming hurt or upset.

What if the T asks for an example?

As far as not interrupting, that's going to be a fun one. She cannot let me speak or talk about my feelings without interrupting. She did it enough with the last MC that he told her to stop. She was visibly upset by it to.

In your experience did you BPDso leave MC more triggered than when they went in? I remember that form last time. It seemed every time we left she was more angry than when we got there.

[formflier]

In your experience did you BPDso leave MC more triggered than when they went in? I remember that form last time. It seemed every time we left she was more angry than when we got there.

Sometimes... .but don't worry about that.  That is her issue... .she will try to hand that issue to you... .

Start FF broken record... .

Let her hand it all day long... .just don't take it... .she will eventually tire of it.

If you are asked a direct question in MC... .provide a direct answer.  Do best you can to make it about your feelings... .

Instead of "she verbally abused me... .attacked me... ."

"I felt attacked... .perhaps I was misinterpreted... .what strategies can we use to "repair" a conversation so we don't get attacked... ."

Then... .MC will likely suggest that when one partner feels attacked... .they raise their hand... .both stop speaking.  Person raising their hand gets to say... ."I'm feeling blamed... .can you express yourself differently... ."

Most nons can hang with a rule like this... .most pwBPD will not.  From what I've gathered about your wife... .she won't be able to do it long... .

MC will then guide both of you to things you can be successful at... .once that is found... .hopefully you can build from there.

If she starts blaming in session... ."I'm feeling blamed... .what can we do to problem solve here... .to move forward... ."

[Notwendy]

I think we all need to be able to talk about issues and not just stay silent.

It's interesting to see two models " The man of the house who just has to take it" and the "Always accommodating loving wife" and how we get these ideas.

While the most common notion is a man as abusive, women can be abusive too, and men can be abused.

I grew up with an emotionally abusive mother and a father who accommodated her. My H on the other hand had the strictly traditional model of parents where household duties were strictly divided with mom doing everything in the home. One might think that was pretty normal for their day, unless one took a closer look and realized mom was basically glued to the home because she was waiting on dad hand and foot, taking constant care of him, so that he wouldn't blow up in anger.

I didn't want to be like my mom, but I didn't want to be like my H's mom either. H though, didn't see anything wrong with what his parents did, and so imposed those same standards in our marriage. I didn't mind a mostly traditional marriage- I wanted to raise the kids, but I was not prepared for a husband who raged if I asked him to wash a dish. It terrified me to be dealing with rages in my marriage since I feared them so much growing up.

When I hear about women who do almost nothing around the house and expect their husbands to do most of it, ( and they are not full time workers with stay at home husbands- some people have that arrangement) it astounds me. If I didn't do the dishes, they'd be in the sink till the end of time. Sometimes I will be washing them after dinner and my H would say " take a break and watch TV with me". LOL that break meant the dishes would be there for me later. My idea of "take a break" is " Hey, I'll help, or I'll do them this time".

I am completely astounded by my mother who basically lives the life of a person with no obligations or duties at all, ever. Each day she did whatever she wanted. She could go out shopping or sit around the house in her pajamas all day long, and no matter how badly she behaved at times, Dad adored her. Me? I had to earn every bit of positive attention I got, and they could paint me black in an instant for the smallest slight.

Strange how we come into relationships with these ideas... .

[formflier]

 

Notwendy,

If this is too personal... .I understand.  I'm trying to get and idea of what my kids see in my house... .

Do you ever remember attempts by your father to "straighten things out"... .impose limits... .or that kind of thing?

Where there periods of time where your mom acted normal... .as in got kids up... .dressed... .acted like normal mom?

In my house  there are periods of normalcy... .or almost supermom behavior... .then... .a veering off the tracks... .weirdness... .and back to normal... .then supermom... .there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.

So... .I would guess from kids perspective... .

Oh... .mom is in that mood... .sitting around watching TV... .work piling up... .

Oh... .watch out... .supermom is here... .the house will be spotless followed by some fun family outing... .that we better enjoy... .or else... .

Sorry for hijack... .but we were kinda talking about models in families... .

FF

[Hmcbart]

I grew up in a home where, at least until all the kids were in school, mom stayed at home and did the majority of the house work. Dad did anything that needed to be done outside. We grew up in the country so something's mom wouldn't do (too afraid of snakes). But for the most part she waited on dad hand and foot.

I don't know that he ever abused it or was just too lazy to do something's himself, but mom was raised that way also. My grandmother did the same for my grandfather. It's just the way we were raised I guess.

My mom did quite a bit for me as a teenager also. She did the laundry and occasionally cleaned my room. I really wasn't allowed to cook to often though, I had an allergy to kitchen appliances. For some strange reason every time I used one, there was always and explosion or fire of some kind. I personally paid to replace every cooking appliance in the house by the time I was 18.

That said, I wasn't raised in a spare the rod household either. The belt was used quite often and admittedly, I deserved it most of the time.

Wife on the other hand. Both her mother and father have been married and divorced 2 times each. My wife and her twin sister were raised by her father. She does have some major abandonment issues because of all the divorces.

She has always said that she was raised to do most things for her self. The cooking and cleaning was mostly done by the kids.

She actually did do the majority of the housework after our first child. That's when we decided it would be better for her to stay home and not work. This was tuff for her be use up until then she had always worked a lot (50-60 hrs per week). I started a new job that paid very well but I had to travel a lot. I was gone every week Monday through Saturday for about a year and a half.

At first she would kind of play the part of the good wife and on my day off each week, she waited in me and dud things for me so I could spend time with our son. After about a year it all changed and she pretty much stopped trying completely.

Post partum depression is what she was diagnosed with. It got worse when we moved away. That was her first time living away from family and it was difficult for her. I did help out around the house but admittedly not as much as I could have.

I have never tried to run the home the way I grew up. I was in the Navy for 6 years and pretty self sufficient. I didn't mind cleaning and cooking. I actually turned out to be a good cook thanks yo my roommate in the navy, he grew up with a family who owned a restaurant and taught me how.

Sometime in the last 8 years is when she stopped trying. It was just a little at first. I watched as she would sleep 12-18 hours a day. Barely got off the vouch to do anything. Gained about 50lbs in this time and have up on our sex life.

I tried to be as supportive as possible but I was getting the projection blame for everything she hated about herself. I lasted until last year before I finally really snapped and couldn't take it any longer.  I think it was mostly the lack of sex and lack of affection. Now I have pretty much given up on the sex and affection and just want some help around the house.

Sorry for the essay I just wrote.

[Notwendy]

FF, it is hard to compare both our homes since the spectrum of BPD can vary. I am not sure how affected your wife is when she is upset, but with my mom, upsetting her resulted in really crazy behavior- running around the house screaming, breaking things. There was at least one suicide threat.

The focus in our family was covering this up, presenting mother as normal, so we were not to question or speak of what she did in any manner, or we would be punished or it would be denied. Yet, mom could hold it together, look perfectly normal to outsiders. Nobody would guess it by looking at us- the kids were dressed nicely, we did well in school ( it was our happy, safe place). Mom was always dressed nicely, the house was neat ( she had household help). Mom had good times. Like your kids, we'd say " uh oh, mom is in a mood"

I think in the early years, dad tried to impose some boundaries and limits, but this would result in awful screaming rages. Mom would also use threats to destroy his personal work papers, our toys, call up people and embarrass us, she would go to any length to get her way. She ruled the house through terror and threats. She even would say " if you don't do this, I will cause a scene" so some of her behaviors were deliberate.

Dad was in a bind. He had to work, liked his work, and in order to be free to do that, he could not spend all his time dealing with her. So he chose to give in to her. This bought him some sanity in the short run, but over about 60 years of marriage it was truly hard for us to watch my mother's will take over their lives entirely. This was an incentive to me to get a handle on my own co-dependency. Any effort dad made to change mom's behavior didn't seem effective, but I wish he had been able to get some help for himself. There was not as much known at the time he was married.

[Notwendy]

Hmcbart,

I can't help but wonder how much depression is impacting your wife. My mom didn't have issues with depression and took great care of her appearance. She was more self centered, and there was not a time where she was interested in housework or doing nice things for us- or a change in personality and appearance like your wife had.

Not to make excuses for her, but depression can result in a serious loss of interest and desire to do anything. I wonder if getting better treatment for that would be a step? Weight gain can result in serious loss of self esteem for someone too, as  you know.

I've known a couple of guys in similar situations. It's almost embarrassing as their wives are virtually absent from school functions, as was my H, so I am mostly alone with my kids in social settings. I say embarrassing because there is no hiding the fact that it is strange for us both to be in the same play dates, school trips, PTA meetings with our kids playing together and conspicuously absent spouses and people giving us that look. One father of my kid's classmate had a wife with crippling depression. I would mention to my H that he was at a school function and my H would ask if we were having an affair. No, we were not, but if it bothered my H that I was mostly alone, I wondered why he didn't just come to some school events too, but no, he didn't.

However, I do feel sympathy for anyone in a difficult marriage.

[Hmcbart]

I think depression and the medication may have played a part. Although she had dropped off in sex drive even before the kids. I feel like it's a control issue for her. I also believe there is a possibility of sexual anorexia also. The weight gain and the way she acts towards the idea of it.

I laugh about it now but if we did something in bed that I really enjoyed, it will never happen again. If I say that was great or awesome and it really turned me on... .it will never happen again. Even if she has said before that it was something she enjoyed, the minute I tell her I enjoyed it... .it won't happen again.

I'm not talking about freaky stuff either. Never any oral from her, not once ever, but I know if it were to happen, I will tell her it was awful just to see if it would continue.

[Notwendy]

I don't know what it is, but it seems that they are so full of resentment from real or perceived slights that doing something nice for someone ( whatever that is) is triggering to them.

My H gets triggered by some things. I noticed that helping me or the kids do things is somehow a trigger for him. Sometimes he will only do things like take out the trash if I help him. He used to just do it, but then, at some point, made a production out of it by asking me to hold the bag, the door, and finally, since there were two trash cans, he would only wheel one out to the curb if I took the other one. Finally, I just said I would do it ( tired of the game) and then he made a big deal over me being "huffy" with the trash and insisting that I told him it was my job ( I didn't say that ).

Why this man, who is much larger and stronger than I am, needs help taking out the trash when I can do it myself is beyond me. Now, it's my job anyway. I just do it- quicker and easier than all this.

My mom would not do little things for my dad. He took care of his own meals. When I would visit, I would make him meals, fix his coffee. As he got older, it was harder for him to do these things, and so he would only make simple things. He loved it if I made something for him. I enjoyed being able to do something for him, after all, he's my dad. Mom would get very triggered when I did this, but I also did things to help her around the house, including meals that she ate as well.

So, I don't think it makes a difference whether it is sex, household tasks, or whatever, but the act of giving sometimes, seems to be a trigger for them. I am not sure why that is.

[Hmcbart]

When we are visiting my mom she always cooks for me and even cleans up if I don't get to it before her. My wife hates that mom does these things for me. It's also usually the only time she will actually lift a finger for me.

She will cook and do the dishes(including mine), she will even add my laundry to the rest of it. Like I said in the other thread... .politician. She's always the good wife around everyone else.

That could be why she can only last so long around my mom. She hates for me to receive any special treatment it seems. The longer we are there the more black she paints me.

So your right it seems about the act of giving being a trigger, but it only seems related to me. When I'm not there, she will stay at moms for weeks with no issues. If I'm there, the countdown starts at about 3 dates before she has me completely painted black.

[Notwendy]

What was her mother like?

I find myself getting a bit triggered when I see people tended to by their mothers or partners, even though I am nurturing to my family and kids, and I was happy to do nice things for my father. I certainly don't give in to these feelings, because I understand where they come from.

When I see people receiving these things, it is a reminder that my mother did not do these things for me. My mother tries to coerce people to do things for her and she loves it when I do them. It makes me wonder how she was treated as a child.

[Hmcbart]

What was her mother like?

Her mother is very self centered. I'm not sure if it's because of her last husband who was verbally abusive or not. I know my wife can only be around her for short amounts of time before she is mad at something she said or did.

I have heard her mom say things in the same way my wife does. Things that are meant to be insults followed by "what, all I said was XYZ", "you must have misunderstood me". I do see a lot of the same traits.

Of course I just got accused last weekend of acting and talking like her moms abusive ex husband. When I get triggered and start cursing is when I'm told I'm being abusive. To me it self defense, admittedly a poor excuse for it but self defense all the same.

[Notwendy]

At that moment, she really believes that you are abusive ( feelings=facts).

I thought my H was being verbally abusive to me, but in these moments, he really believed he was defending himself against me. When I looked at the lessons here, and also did some co-dependency work, I realized in how many ways I was invalidating and making digs at my H.

On a more extreme level, it is interesting to see how my mother interprets things. One small suggestion can feel invalidating to her. If I listen to her side of the story with my father, she feels like she is a victim of his invalidation.

One of the ideas I learned in Adult children groups is " we became reactors rather than actors" and it resonated with me when I realized just how much of my behavior is a reaction to what others did or said to me. But we have other choices, one is to not react, or change our reaction.

We are not responsible for their feelings or actions, but we can take steps to not make it worse- and I think this is the beginning of change, at least personal change.

Another principle I have is to not defend what isn't true. If you defend it, you own it in a way- even validate it  because if it isn't true it isn't something to defend. If she calls you and abuser, you aren't one.

[Hmcbart]

It's weird after so many years how deeply enmeshed I am. As a peace keeper at the house I've always looked for every way possible to not get into an argument. Most of the time this meant accepting all the blame and being held responsible for things that were not mine to accept.

I hope it doesn't take 20 years to get in-enmeshed, if that's a word.

MC starts this Thursday. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. When I first mentioned it she was against it and looked for ways to get out of it. Now she says that she is looking forward to it and was from the first time I brought it up.

I know it has a lot to do with how triggered I have been and the things I've said in the last few weeks. I gave her the bullets to fire at me in Counceling and show how her behavior is all my fault. After all, she just asked me a question or made a simple statement. It was me who took it the wrong way. (You can't see me rolling my eyes but that was sarcasm)

I need to focus on not JADEING during MC. I have a tendency to try and argue my point even with irrational people. I hope the T can see through some of it.