Is BPD Correlated With Manipulating Others For Financial Gain?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all... .

Got a question for you all... .

I have been in quite a few relationships with borderlines and one common thread that I have noticed is... .first of all, I have played the role of the rescuer in every one of them.

Secondly, (and I'm only seeing that clearly now) every one of them seemed to manipulate her significant others for financial gain.

I used to pay for random people, my friends, by nature I have been a pretty generous person (maybe too much so). But now I have stopped this for obvious reasons, too many people taking advantage of that.

But my question is as follows... .do you think that manipulating the other person for financial gain is a BPD trait or is it that I just personally attract the type that want bills paid, cars, vacations, dinners, concerts, etc and it doesn't have much to do with BPD?

Have you met  BPD women in your life who were financially independent and self sufficient but still had BPD? I read about them but in my experience they always claim it's great love but in the end I get manipulated for money mostly. What has your experience been regarding this?

Because I'm starting to think if I find someone who doesn't expect me to pay for her all the time and doesn't have a history of basically using men for money... .will I screen out the BPD ones automatically?

Some advice would be appreciated, I am a serial BPD boyfriend... .

[ZeusRLX]

Hi all... .

Got a question for you all... .

I have been in quite a few relationships with borderlines and one common thread that I have noticed is... .first of all, I have played the role of the rescuer in every one of them.

Secondly, (and I'm only seeing that clearly now) every one of them seemed to manipulate her significant others for financial gain.

I used to pay for random people, my friends, by nature I have been a pretty generous person (maybe too much so). But now I have stopped this for obvious reasons, too many people taking advantage of that.

But my question is as follows... .do you think that manipulating the other person for financial gain is a BPD trait or is it that I just personally attract the type that want bills paid, cars, vacations, dinners, concerts, etc and it doesn't have much to do with BPD?

Have you met  BPD women in your life who were financially independent and self sufficient but still had BPD? I read about them but in my experience they always claim it's great love but in the end I get manipulated for money mostly. What has your experience been regarding this?

Because I'm starting to think if I find someone who doesn't expect me to pay for her all the time and doesn't have a history of basically using men for money... .will I screen out the BPD ones automatically?

Some advice would be appreciated, I am a serial BPD boyfriend... .

[JohnLove]

Hello ZeusRLX, I dont believe its as cut and dried as you seem to hope. It's a age old stereotype that  women see the male as the provider... .but in relation to BPD, I think you've opened a can of worms here. 

[LonelyChild]

will I screen out the BPD ones automatically?

Pretty much. If you don't work as narcissistic supply, you're not very interesting to a pwBPD. They use you for personal gain (I don't think this is conscious) in every way they can.

Consider a teddy bear and a child. When the child feels lonely, it might hug the teddy bear. Might play with it, dress it up, cuddle with it, sleep with it, holding it throughout the night. But then the child finds something else more interesting. It throws the teddy bear away, or puts it in the closet. When the child feels lonely again, maybe it will go get the teddy bear again. Or some other toy. Whatever happens to be around.

Is this selfish of the child? No, because the toys and the teddy bear do not have emotions or needs. This is how a pwBPD acts. If you consider the teddy bear's perspective - imagining that it has feelings and needs - it is treated horribly abusively. But a pwBPD doesn't understand that you have needs.

[Turkish]

Manipulation takes two, ZeusRLX. It's good that you seem to be realizing it, like what type of validation you are getting from the financial rescues.

There's nothing wrong with being a Rescuer. When it becomes unhealthy is when we let our personal boundaries, which we alone control, be crossed.

My mom is dBPD, and has always lived "on the edge" of survival. I used to financially rescue her, but stopped, short of life threatening circumstances. I felt better, and so did she.

I did a financial rescue of the other dBPD in my life a few months ago, and old family friend who needed rent money. Despite her promise to pay me back, she will likely not even make an effort. Should I resent her, or realize that what I did was merely charity (never to be repeated)? The realization that I won't get paid back, perhaps not even a cent, is an internal boundary.

I gave a homeless guy $2 in a parking lot this week (My Ex, who doesn't trust anybody despite being socially liberal, always hated that). I could have given him another $10 out of my pocket, but I held my pocket change on the other side of my shopping bag. Then I talked to him for a bit, listening to his story, which was credible. That was both an internal and an external boundary.

Boundaries are completely under our control. Boundaries sync with our core values. When we compromise our values and boundaries, it says more about us than the other person, who may have different values than we do, and poor boundaries (like seeing nothing wrong with manipulating people for money). They are who they are, and no amount of "rescuing" will change them. Who are you, and are you ok with that?

[once removed]

hi zeus  

you show some self awareness here so im gonna be a little tough in hope that its useful. if not, i wont be in the future .

"I have been in quite a few relationships with borderlines and one common thread that I have noticed is... .first of all, I have played the role of the rescuer in every one of them."

be careful about overdiagnosing. when i first learned about BPD i thought every last one of my exes had it. they didnt. youve identified your role and thats a huge step  . knowledge is power, but it is only a catalyst for change.

since youve identified your role, reread these two lines:

"Secondly, (and I'm only seeing that clearly now) every one of them seemed to manipulate her significant others for financial gain.

I used to pay for random people, my friends, by nature I have been a pretty generous person (maybe too much so). But now I have stopped this for obvious reasons, too many people taking advantage of that."

can you see some connection there? if not ill elaborate:

"do you think that manipulating the other person for financial gain is a BPD trait or is it that I just personally attract the type that want bills paid, cars, vacations, dinners, concerts, etc and it doesn't have much to do with BPD?"

i think part of this is a little off. statistically speaking, pwBPD are 2% of the population. therefore its unlikely that a greater number of them than usual simply come running to you. i think its more likely, or perhaps healthiest to see it as you being attracted to women of this type, BPD or not. to answer your question, "manipulating the other person for financial gain" is not a diagnostic criteria. you will however, find an endless amount of similar stories on this board, even recently. im not sure where the line is, but i think this probably has as much to do with the "non" partner as it does their BPD partner.

"Because I'm starting to think if I find someone who doesn't expect me to pay for her all the time and doesn't have a history of basically using men for money... .will I screen out the BPD ones automatically?"

i think youre on to something here. the problem with it is that the conclusion is focused on hypothetical or future partners rather than yourself. ill give you an example. look at your last line a bit differently, reworded.

"Because I'm starting to think if I dont expect myself to pay for her all the time and dont have a history of basically being used for money" is an attitude i think that will get you a lot further in terms of finding a healthy partner.

"by nature I have been a pretty generous person (maybe too much so)"

your parentheses are definitely on to something. the questions and answers are for you to discover and hopefully for others to help you do so. obviously i dont know how much youve learned since arriving here. have you read about codependency? you may be a generous person and thats a great thing in and of itself, but evidently its led to a history of unstable relationships and resentment. so think selfishly for a moment. why do you pay for "random people"? what do you get out of it? really ask yourself what you get out of spending your hard earned money on other people. are you expecting something in return? even if its just basic appreciation. there are truly practical benefits to giving to others, psychologically speaking.

but this sounds like a long term pattern, so where do you think you learned it?

edit: BOUNDARIES. as turkish mentioned, BOUNDARIES. how much do you know about these?

[Inside]

Interesting question…  I’ve not seen any research on the subject, but also feel I’d been used monetarily.  But ... .what I recall is ‘her’ (BPxgf) needing to feel wanted, thus, if I were willing to help her financially, as well as with household chores, car repairs, lawn care ... .it was ‘me giving of myself to her.’  So, she felt self worth, as in, ‘I must be valuable - look at all he’s spent/ done for me!’  As if my giving was proof that she was deserving

Also, my generosity fixed problems that allowed her to be reckless - and she loved being reckless!  

So giving, with money, effort or time, appeared to validate her worth.  

I don’t think there was much if any premeditation ... .and am not sure if they can actually think that far ahead... .?  But it sounds like you’ve more experience than me ... .one was too much

[ZeusRLX]

hi zeus  

you show some self awareness here so im gonna be a little tough in hope that its useful. if not, i wont be in the future .

It's all good, I like different perspectives.

i think part of this is a little off. statistically speaking, pwBPD are 2% of the population. therefore its unlikely that a greater number of them than usual simply come running to you. i think its more likely, or perhaps healthiest to see it as you being attracted to women of this type, BPD or not. to answer your question, "manipulating the other person for financial gain" is not a diagnostic criteria. you will however, find an endless amount of similar stories on this board, even recently. im not sure where the line is, but i think this probably has as much to do with the "non" partner as it does their BPD partner.

Of course. I take full responsibility for it. I participated in it and I enjoyed it. It was a bad decision but I did have a good time and came out wiser in the end even though things could have ended badly.

your parentheses are definitely on to something. the questions and answers are for you to discover and hopefully for others to help you do so. obviously i dont know how much youve learned since arriving here. have you read about codependency? you may be a generous person and thats a great thing in and of itself, but evidently its led to a history of unstable relationships and resentment. so think selfishly for a moment. why do you pay for "random people"? what do you get out of it? really ask yourself what you get out of spending your hard earned money on other people. are you expecting something in return? even if its just basic appreciation. there are truly practical benefits to giving to others, psychologically speaking.

but this sounds like a long term pattern, so where do you think you learned it?

I think there were several reasons I paid for other people... .as far as friends I think it made myself feel important, projected a certain type of image, that kind of thing. So part of it had to do with vanity. The other part had to do with being nice to people I think and trying to help them in a misguided way. So kind of a combination of those I think.

As far as paying for significant others, I think it was part of the idea of being generous and again projecting a certain image. But what I realized lately is that I don't want anyone to like me because I pay for them. They can pay for themselves.

But I'm just curious if there is some BPD out there who is going to pay for herself all the way and sell me on it until I jump in and then find out it's the same thing all over again, haha.

That will be the next adventure!

edit: BOUNDARIES. as turkish mentioned, BOUNDARIES. how much do you know about these?

I know about boundaries but just like with so many other things, knowing about them is one thing, applying them once feelings are involved is another, as I'm sure you're well aware.

But main thing I learned from my last one is that I am NOT paying for her or for anyone... .if she can't pay her own bills, if her mother needs money, too bad so sad.

I might have a good heart but I am also not a fool, which is why I left her. Everyone needs to pay their own way through life, there is no such thing as free lunch.

I violated so many boundaries when I tried to take on so many of her responsibilities on myself, financial and otherwise.

Thankfully, I realized it soon enough an folded before it turned into a real mess. So, I learned something and didn't lose too much. Could have been better, could have been worse.

[ZeusRLX]

will I screen out the BPD ones automatically?

Pretty much. If you don't work as narcissistic supply, you're not very interesting to a pwBPD. They use you for personal gain (I don't think this is conscious) in every way they can.

Consider a teddy bear and a child. When the child feels lonely, it might hug the teddy bear. Might play with it, dress it up, cuddle with it, sleep with it, holding it throughout the night. But then the child finds something else more interesting. It throws the teddy bear away, or puts it in the closet. When the child feels lonely again, maybe it will go get the teddy bear again. Or some other toy. Whatever happens to be around.

Is this selfish of the child? No, because the toys and the teddy bear do not have emotions or needs. This is how a pwBPD acts. If you consider the teddy bear's perspective - imagining that it has feelings and needs - it is treated horribly abusively. But a pwBPD doesn't understand that you have needs.

Yeah, it will definitely cut off quite a few of them.

I am already pretty good at screening out the really crazy ones... .bulimia, cutting, stealing, etc.

It's the more stealthy ones that are so devilishly difficult to screen! 

But I enjoy the challenge!

But my dating life is like Soviet Russia... .I don't go looking for BPD, BPD comes to me.

[ZeusRLX]

Manipulation takes two, ZeusRLX. It's good that you seem to be realizing it, like what type of validation you are getting from the financial rescues.

There's nothing wrong with being a Rescuer. When it becomes unhealthy is when we let our personal boundaries, which we alone control, be crossed.

My mom is dBPD, and has always lived "on the edge" of survival. I used to financially rescue her, but stopped, short of life threatening circumstances. I felt better, and so did she.

I did a financial rescue of the other dBPD in my life a few months ago, and old family friend who needed rent money. Despite her promise to pay me back, she will likely not even make an effort. Should I resent her, or realize that what I did was merely charity (never to be repeated)? The realization that I won't get paid back, perhaps not even a cent, is an internal boundary.

I gave a homeless guy $2 in a parking lot this week (My Ex, who doesn't trust anybody despite being socially liberal, always hated that). I could have given him another $10 out of my pocket, but I held my pocket change on the other side of my shopping bag. Then I talked to him for a bit, listening to his story, which was credible. That was both an internal and an external boundary.

Boundaries are completely under our control. Boundaries sync with our core values. When we compromise our values and boundaries, it says more about us than the other person, who may have different values than we do, and poor boundaries (like seeing nothing wrong with manipulating people for money). They are who they are, and no amount of "rescuing" will change them. Who are you, and are you ok with that?

I think I'm at the other extreme now, not giving any money to anyone... .it will even out with time, I'm sure... .

[ZeusRLX]

Interesting question…  I’ve not seen any research on the subject, but also feel I’d been used monetarily.  But ... .what I recall is ‘her’ (BPxgf) needing to feel wanted, thus, if I were willing to help her financially, as well as with household chores, car repairs, lawn care ... .it was ‘me giving of myself to her.’  So, she felt self worth, as in, ‘I must be valuable - look at all he’s spent/ done for me!’  As if my giving was proof that she was deserving

Yeah, that's why I was curious... .it seems like very often here when people post there is some kind of financial manipulation angle thing going on... .and that certainly had been the case with me.

It starts with love and ends with them trying to siphon more and more money out of you through dubious/deceptive/manipulative means all while playing up the whole sweet innocent victim of course... .

I think it was Clausewitz who said... .and he was talking about war but I think it applies to us susceptible to BPD types... ."Mistakes made from kindness are some of the very worst."

I need to tattoo that on my chest.

[Turkish]

Manipulation takes two, ZeusRLX. It's good that you seem to be realizing it, like what type of validation you are getting from the financial rescues.

There's nothing wrong with being a Rescuer. When it becomes unhealthy is when we let our personal boundaries, which we alone control, be crossed.

My mom is dBPD, and has always lived "on the edge" of survival. I used to financially rescue her, but stopped, short of life threatening circumstances. I felt better, and so did she.

I did a financial rescue of the other dBPD in my life a few months ago, and old family friend who needed rent money. Despite her promise to pay me back, she will likely not even make an effort. Should I resent her, or realize that what I did was merely charity (never to be repeated)? The realization that I won't get paid back, perhaps not even a cent, is an internal boundary.

I gave a homeless guy $2 in a parking lot this week (My Ex, who doesn't trust anybody despite being socially liberal, always hated that). I could have given him another $10 out of my pocket, but I held my pocket change on the other side of my shopping bag. Then I talked to him for a bit, listening to his story, which was credible. That was both an internal and an external boundary.

Boundaries are completely under our control. Boundaries sync with our core values. When we compromise our values and boundaries, it says more about us than the other person, who may have different values than we do, and poor boundaries (like seeing nothing wrong with manipulating people for money). They are who they are, and no amount of "rescuing" will change them. Who are you, and are you ok with that?

I think I'm at the other extreme now, not giving any money to anyone... .it will even out with time, I'm sure... .

Do what you need to do, Zeus, both to protect yourself, and process your motivations. There's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. At the end of the day, it's only you who has control.

[once removed]

"I think there were several reasons I paid for other people... .as far as friends I think it made myself feel important, projected a certain type of image, that kind of thing. So part of it had to do with vanity. The other part had to do with being nice to people I think and trying to help them in a misguided way. So kind of a combination of those I think.

As far as paying for significant others, I think it was part of the idea of being generous and again projecting a certain image. But what I realized lately is that I don't want anyone to like me because I pay for them. They can pay for themselves.

But I'm just curious if there is some BPD out there who is going to pay for herself all the way and sell me on it until I jump in and then find out it's the same thing all over again, haha.

That will be the next adventure!"

this is powerful knowledge zeus! personally speaking, ive never seen myself as a door mat, but ive certainly been known to go out of my way to help others in multiple forms. like you, sometimes to a fault. im certainly not trying to discourage a giving spirit, its something i still wholeheartedly believe in. learning more about, and putting boundaries into practice helped. but so did suspending my trust, and lowering my expectations. for example, i have a few friends, who if i vent to them or confide in them, i know how its gonna go. they may turn the conversation to themselves. they may invalidate me and my feelings. i learned to stop expecting otherwise. my attitude and those relationships are at their best when i dont expect more than i perceive them to be capable of giving.

"But what I realized lately is that I don't want anyone to like me because I pay for them." thats huge, and as i mentioned, a real catalyst for change. change doesnt just happen over night, so you have to put that attitude into practice. i dont need to know you personally to know you have a multitude of great qualities and your money may be the least of them. do you have friends or loved ones who you know like you for you and have demonstrated that? use that as your guide.

"They can pay for themselves.

But I'm just curious if there is some BPD out there who is going to pay for herself all the way and sell me on it until I jump in and then find out it's the same thing all over again, haha."

it all depends. im more comfortable doing the majority of paying for things. i think thats okay because im open to a significant other paying for me, paying for herself, paying for us, what have you. i also think if i met someone who insisted upon going half and half, id be comfortable and open to that, but we might not ultimately be compatible. that depends, too. i like to think im comfortable with my significant other being the "bread winner", or at least i could adjust. but to answer your question, as i think youve already mentioned, youve read stories unlike yours in this regard. on the other hand, ive read stories along the lines of the scenario you lay out. the scenario you lay out, imo, is perfectly plausible. if you have a tendency toward personality disordered women, or even just troubled women, this self awareness may only get you as far as picking a different seeming type.

"I know about boundaries but just like with so many other things, knowing about them is one thing, applying them once feelings are involved is another, as I'm sure you're well aware."

i am, and i still struggle with it. applying them once feelings is involved is possibly the most important time though. personally i still sometimes feel some guilt when i apply them. you may or may not. but whats eased my discomfort is knowing that good boundaries yield the best and healthiest relationships of all kinds. they make my already existing relationships better.

"Of course. I take full responsibility for it. I participated in it and I enjoyed it. It was a bad decision but I did have a good time and came out wiser in the end even though things could have ended badly."

this is one illustration of what detachment looks like. you should congratulate yourself on that. blame gets us nowhere. the only ones we can change now is ourselves. i think youre on the right track  .

[Inside]

Thinking back to an excellent description of BPD behavior as someone having been rescued from the ocean, only to step overboard again after being warmed up and dried off…  If rescuers, we get a healthy positive feeling of having saved a life, and likely hugged, but when ‘our victim’ repeats their mistake … if only to find out who else thinks they’re worth saving … we’re justifiably confused. 

pwBPD are great at digging themselves into holes they can’t afford to escape…  And I’ve read some true horror stories regarding what others have spent/ lost attempting to rescue them.  But from all I’ve saw, pwBPD never really prosper.  They don’t ‘bank it’ and move on to their next mark, they just blow it, along with any other goodwill or help they’ve received.  They’re emotionally manipulative, but I don’t feel they’re as monetarily calculating … if there’s a difference  

Hell, my BPxgf frequently talked me out of throwing more money at her than I did!  But as is, I’ll never be repaid for what she still owes me…  They are an expensive experience, both emotionally and monetarily.  I’ve also read a lot from ‘their own mouths,’ and they’ve very little to show for all that’s spent by others to stabilize them.

[Loveofhislife]

Awesome thread. Certainly there is no one size (or gender) that fits all pwBPD. I was sugar mommy for a year: rescuing and coddling and reprimanding and teaching and enduring--I was becoming an empty nester after raising my own three children and ended up with a 47 year old, brilliant baby. My exbfBPD was sociopathic as well and has had a lifetime of financial problems eventually leading him to federal prison on fraud charges. I believe love was measured by him as how much money or how many things or how much privilege and status a person will give him. When they no longer freely give it, he is so entitled that he will take it (regardless of what means he uses or who he hurts). I have had to recognize my part in that insanity dance. I was his mark, no doubt: the first time we met he sized me up based on car, clothing, and accessories. I was Pollyanna and very naive coming out of a 25 year marriage. He also determined quickly that I was a generous and caring person. But where was the quid pro quo? I am a rescuer who got her "needs" met by his constantly feeding my anxious attachment style and codependency. He was my shadow. He took me for as much as he could (wealth, status, influence) and then (when he determined he got all that he could from me) cruelly and abruptly abandoned me. I'm not the first and won't be the last. It may not have been premeditated to hurt me, and perhaps he doesn't recognize his use and abuse patterns; but I have. I doubt he knew exactly what he was doing: users; they all are. But are we nons? Again, I now believe the quid pro quo was love me; stay with me; play with me; and I'll take care of your every need. I was a lonely child indeed.

[Sunfl0wer]

Seems to me that when you have the combined two traits of:

A) sense of entitlement

B) financial or employment instability

Then as a mechanism as survival, a person with the two above traits may be greatly prone to financial manipulation of others.

Add c) low sense of boundaries.  D) impulse control issues

They can be a catalyst too.

I think it may be more helpful to look at the traits and values you and the other person hold.  If you are just trying to weed out "BPD" persons, you may find yourself with a non BPD person but then how do you weed out NPD or HPD? Or differentiate acting in vs acting out BPD?  Or low functioning vs high functioning?  BPD is a spectrum... .many of the traits are "normal" traits, just to an extreme, or under certain conditions.  Many persons partners did not show disordered traits until moving in together. (Such as my partner)

I wish for a clear formula to find a successful r/s, an easy answer, but I think this is wishful thinking on my part.  I am certain I have coD tendencies and if I first look at and work on me, I hope that will naturally be the answer for attracting and gravitating to persons I can have a healthy r/s dynamic with.

[ZeusRLX]

"But what I realized lately is that I don't want anyone to like me because I pay for them." thats huge, and as i mentioned, a real catalyst for change. change doesnt just happen over night, so you have to put that attitude into practice. i dont need to know you personally to know you have a multitude of great qualities and your money may be the least of them. do you have friends or loved ones who you know like you for you and have demonstrated that? use that as your guide.

Yes, of course. I am lucky to have many people in my life who value me for me so best thing to do is to focus on that and not encourage any new entry for those that have any other reason to like me.

it all depends. im more comfortable doing the majority of paying for things. i think thats okay because im open to a significant other paying for me, paying for herself, paying for us, what have you. i also think if i met someone who insisted upon going half and half, id be comfortable and open to that, but we might not ultimately be compatible. that depends, too. i like to think im comfortable with my significant other being the "bread winner", or at least i could adjust. but to answer your question, as i think youve already mentioned, youve read stories unlike yours in this regard. on the other hand, ive read stories along the lines of the scenario you lay out. the scenario you lay out, imo, is perfectly plausible. if you have a tendency toward personality disordered women, or even just troubled women, this self awareness may only get you as far as picking a different seeming type.

Unfortunately, yes. My track record is not good so chances are the next one will also be a personality disordered person. I will do my best to prevent it but my track record makes it the most likely predictable outcome. But one thing I CAN control is to make sure I at least don't get manipulated for money, that I can and will control for.

this is one illustration of what detachment looks like. you should congratulate yourself on that. blame gets us nowhere. the only ones we can change now is ourselves. i think youre on the right track  .

Yeah, it's funny, every time it happens I think, NOW there is no way they can get through to me. And it's true, I filter out quite a few of them. But there is always that one that's advanced enough to get through the security system!

I guess we will see what the future brings, I will be prepared.

Thank you for your insights.

[ZeusRLX]

Thinking back to an excellent description of BPD behavior as someone having been rescued from the ocean, only to step overboard again after being warmed up and dried off…  If rescuers, we get a healthy positive feeling of having saved a life, and likely hugged, but when ‘our victim’ repeats their mistake … if only to find out who else thinks they’re worth saving … we’re justifiably confused. 

pwBPD are great at digging themselves into holes they can’t afford to escape…  And I’ve read some true horror stories regarding what others have spent/ lost attempting to rescue them.  But from all I’ve saw, pwBPD never really prosper.  They don’t ‘bank it’ and move on to their next mark, they just blow it, along with any other goodwill or help they’ve received.  They’re emotionally manipulative, but I don’t feel they’re as monetarily calculating … if there’s a difference  

Hell, my BPxgf frequently talked me out of throwing more money at her than I did!  But as is, I’ll never be repaid for what she still owes me…  They are an expensive experience, both emotionally and monetarily.  I’ve also read a lot from ‘their own mouths,’ and they’ve very little to show for all that’s spent by others to stabilize them.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

[ZeusRLX]

Awesome thread. Certainly there is no one size (or gender) that fits all pwBPD. I was sugar mommy for a year: rescuing and coddling and reprimanding and teaching and enduring--I was becoming an empty nester after raising my own three children and ended up with a 47 year old, brilliant baby. My exbfBPD was sociopathic as well and has had a lifetime of financial problems eventually leading him to federal prison on fraud charges. I believe love was measured by him as how much money or how many things or how much privilege and status a person will give him. When they no longer freely give it, he is so entitled that he will take it (regardless of what means he uses or who he hurts). I have had to recognize my part in that insanity dance. I was his mark, no doubt: the first time we met he sized me up based on car, clothing, and accessories. I was Pollyanna and very naive coming out of a 25 year marriage. He also determined quickly that I was a generous and caring person. But where was the quid pro quo? I am a rescuer who got her "needs" met by his constantly feeding my anxious attachment style and codependency. He was my shadow. He took me for as much as he could (wealth, status, influence) and then (when he determined he got all that he could from me) cruelly and abruptly abandoned me. I'm not the first and won't be the last. It may not have been premeditated to hurt me, and perhaps he doesn't recognize his use and abuse patterns; but I have. I doubt he knew exactly what he was doing: users; they all are. But are we nons? Again, I now believe the quid pro quo was love me; stay with me; play with me; and I'll take care of your every need. I was a lonely child indeed.

Very similar to my last one. She was a sociopath as well with major financial problems.

She just loved, loved, loved the fact that I would do anything and I mean ANYTHING for my loved ones. That was easy pickings for her.

I read a phrase in this book... .it said "If there was a devil in this world, I am sure he would want us to feel very, very sorry for him". I found that very memorable. I do think that some of my charitable qualities were exploited... .just like yours... .so I will keep that quote in mind next time there is a temptation to rescue someone.

[ZeusRLX]

Seems to me that when you have the combined two traits of:

A) sense of entitlement

B) financial or employment instability

Then as a mechanism as survival, a person with the two above traits may be greatly prone to financial manipulation of others.

Add c) low sense of boundaries.  D) impulse control issues

They can be a catalyst too.

Yes, makes perfect sense.

I think it may be more helpful to look at the traits and values you and the other person hold.  If you are just trying to weed out "BPD" persons, you may find yourself with a non BPD person but then how do you weed out NPD or HPD? Or differentiate acting in vs acting out BPD?  Or low functioning vs high functioning?  BPD is a spectrum... .many of the traits are "normal" traits, just to an extreme, or under certain conditions.  Many persons partners did not show disordered traits until moving in together. (Such as my partner)

I wish for a clear formula to find a successful r/s, an easy answer, but I think this is wishful thinking on my part.  I am certain I have coD tendencies and if I first look at and work on me, I hope that will naturally be the answer for attracting and gravitating to persons I can have a healthy r/s dynamic with.

Yeah, I hope that I can change it too. My track record is not good though so with every new candidate it's guilty until proven innocent.

[Sunfl0wer]

Unfortunately, yes. My track record is not good so chances are the next one will also be a personality disordered person. I will do my best to prevent it but my track record makes it the most likely predictable outcome. But one thing I CAN control is to make sure I at least don't get manipulated for money, that I can and will control for.

FWIW:  My ex N/BPD traits was with an uBPD before me.  He himself is very high functioning.  Only within the context of home did he show traits.  The traits he showed were more passive aggressive, ST, not acting out kind.  He was married to a classic uBPD acting out type, complete with harassment, parental alienation, financial manipulation, etc.

He entered our r/s with a mindset of protecting himself.  Protecting himself from emotional, financial, every manipulation possible.  He ensured I was financially independent, that he did not repeat the same mistakes as when with his exW.  The problem with this is, it never addressed the core issues that caused him to enter a dysfunctional r/s to begin with.  He entered our r/s with the baggage of fear of vulnerability, fear of intermingling finances, fear of over committing before me. 

This approach was not fair to me.  I was ready to commit, ready to join partnership... .  All the while, he was still on guard.

Making a commitment to yourself to not get hurt does not stop you from getting hurt.  It makes you not open and available for a true r/s of genuine connection and vulnerability.  It is a band aid solution that just causes avoidance in dealing with the true issues.  Looking at yourself honestly, being able to be vulnerable without fear... .I think may be a better goal vs building a wall around things/values you have and protecting them.

I always felt that I could not reach a part of him.  I think it all started with his fear of being hurt.  I think this was a main basis for our dysfunction.

I wish he had faced that fear vs protecting himself.  I think had he done that... .he and I would have continued forward with a wonderful future... .maybe... .maybe there were more challenges, however, his fear certainly did control much of his avoidance of a type of intimacy that our r/s needed.

[Loveofhislife]

Hey Sunflower: trust but verify? Since I spent a year hearing how evil all of exbfBPD's exes were; I would caution your believing him--especially since you are probably his latest excuse for failure. I'm certain I'm now the latest reason for all of exbfBPD's problems. They never are accountable as long as others can be blamed. It's like the movies where the rape victims are treated like the perpetrators. I have since met his ex wife who he demonized only to find her worthy of sainthood after being married to him for 17 years.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey Sunflower: trust but verify? Since I spent a year hearing how evil all of exbfBPD's exes were; I would caution your believing him--especially since you are probably his latest excuse for failure. I'm certain I'm now the latest reason for all of exbfBPD's problems. They never are accountable as long as others can be blamed. It's like the movies where the rape victims are treated like the perpetrators. I have since met his ex wife who he demonized only to find her worthy of sainthood after being married to him for 17 years.

It sounds like you are saying my statement about my ex's exw is based on what he told me?  That maybe she was not that bad?

Actually, when I met my ex, he downplayed and normalized what his exW did.  After dating him, co parenting with him their D, I lived her abuse and torment.  I behaved as step mom, as the exW abandoned D left the state, but accused us of taking D away from her, even as far as harassment in the court system, and threats of looming false accusations to police/judge if we didn't comply to her.

My ex is a mild N/BPD trait type person.  He was in denial and still is... .with regards to his ex and his D.  He lives in a fairyland.  They can be abusive to him, and he won't see it that way.  He was always wanting me to go along with her threats and abuse (he normalized a lot of it) as he saw how pained she appeared and we could handle it.

However, he does tend to think black/white.  I know if he thinks of his b/u with me, he paints a picture where he is likely the victim, not really much internal locus of control in his story.  I'm not kidding myself.  I don't think he completely trashes me though in the story as he is more narcissistic in nature and likely would think he looked bad to be with a complete witch all those years.

[Hadlee]

I got sucked in early on by my exBPD BFF regarding her lack of money.  She showed me her bank statement online, which had zero funds.  I remember how uncomfortable it made me feel.  It's not something you show someone, especially since she was also my manager at the time

She would always tell me she had no money to buy food, medication or pay bills.  Many a time I gave her money for medication, food, and bought her lunch or coffee.  Even paid for a holiday away for her.  Stupid me was concerned she was headed for a breakdown, so thought a few days away would be good for her.  I stopped short of giving her money for bills though.

All this went on while she was living with her exbf.  He didn't work, however was getting government support payment.  My generosity (stupidity) stopped when I saw numerous Facebook updates where she was buying video games, expensive laptops, etc.

I don't know whether it was a deliberate ploy to manipulate me financially or to validate her self worth.  All I do know is I had SUCKER written across my forehead.  Lesson learned

 

     

[ZeusRLX]

I don't know whether it was a deliberate ploy to manipulate me financially or to validate her self worth.  All I do know is I had SUCKER written across my forehead.  Lesson learned      

Yep! Never again.

[rollercoaster24]

Hi

Interesting topic, one I had plenty of experience with unfortunately.

My ex presented with all the characteristics listed as familiar with BP's;

Huge sense of entitlement when it came to money.

Had lived off and on his whole life with his parents, using them for storage, free accommodation, money etc, and was a year older than me when we met early 2010, (I am just turned 47 and broke off with ExBP in March last year).

His same attitudes about money applied to the rest of his family or anybody else that was in his eyes, 'rich', (meaning way more than he had which was zero).

Jealous and resentful of everyone around him that worked and had money or didn't work (whatever the circumstances) and had money.

Unstable employment and financial history.

Avoided personal responsibility for most things presenting in his own life.

Blamed everyone around him for his own misfortune, (not really misfortune though, just his own stupid bad decisions).

Stole off others, and felt above the law because of his circumstances.



Stole in general.

Stole from my workplace sites, (when he was supposedly 'helping me out at work' to pay me back all the help I gave him). Yea, it was me that did 99% of the work, whilst he ranted and raved at me about the same tired old crap and people he hated.

Always rabbiting on about how he wasn't into 'money' and all the grossness it brings, but spent all his time being obsessed with what others were doing with theirs, namely me, my family and his own family and one friend, (that I knew about).

Presented himself as a vulnerable waif mostly, but underneath he was a calculating Sociopath.

Tried to sabotage every job I had, (worked at different sites and also for myself).

Would commonly keep me awake at nights, or turn up at my workplaces and humiliate me with horrible public abuse, or hide my keys, phone, wallet so I couldn't leave for work.

I will leave this inventory at that, as I have waffled on enough already, being sure you have got the picture.

[rollercoaster24]

Oh, one last thing.

He lived at mine for 2 years, and never paid a cent towards rent, phone, or anything much else. At the beginning he did, but nothing ever consistent, and usually he would get anything he contributed straight back just days later, when he ran out of his unemployment money once again.

After we went long distance, he never contributed a cent either, lived off his elderly parents, whilst hating and abusing them too, (just like with me).

I rest my case, (unbelievable that I still miss this jerk).

[Loveofhislife]

I got sucked in early on by my exBPD BFF regarding her lack of money.  She showed me her bank statement online, which had zero funds.  I remember how uncomfortable it made me feel.  It's not something you show someone, especially since she was also my manager at the time

She would always tell me she had no money to buy food, medication or pay bills.  Many a time I gave her money for medication, food, and bought her lunch or coffee.  Even paid for a holiday away for her... .I stopped short of giving her money for bills though.

My generosity (stupidity) stopped when I saw numerous Facebook updates where she was buying video games, expensive laptops, etc.

I don't know whether it was a deliberate ploy to manipulate me financially or to validate her self worth.  All I do know is I had SUCKER written across my forehead.  Lesson learned

     

Similar experience here--her showing you her financial "trauma" was intentional manipulation and from what I've read here, they use this as a "trauma bonding" tactic to suck us in--especially those of us rescuers. It obviously has worked for them in the past, and we likely fit the profile of the last "nice" people they duped.

On our second date, he brought with him a 3-Ring binder full of court filings and pictures of him with his sons, and went into infinitum detail of how his family had set him up in a huge conspiracy that ultimately sent him to federal prison for three years. He was shaking and crying as he gave an academy award winning performance. I told him I did not judge people based on their pasts.

He asked if I would like to see his apartment close by, and I agreed: it was a lakefront condo in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in our city.

I told him I was confused about how he was able to live in this very deed restricted area with a multiple count felony and prison sentence on his record. He gave an elaborate story about a church and a landlord and a property manager: all felt so sorry for him. Women are his primary mark--especially kind and generous ones. Unbeknownst to me, he was living in a halfway house when we met.

I spent the next 3 months helping him "get on his feet" financially and otherwise--only to learn what you did: he was buying a canoe, high def TV, laptop, new cars, and gambling at the casino. He always would promise to pay me back--especially since he was gainfully employed; making much more $ than I; yet somehow he was able to qualify for EBT and all kinds of other public assistance.

His ex wife of 17 years who was raising their two sons asked for child support and he continued to lie to her and the Courts that he was not working when, in fact, he was grossing over $100,000. Yet he ALWAYS was broke and in a financial crisis: threats of eviction and he somehow qualified for a homeless grant through the VA. His most recent ex wife calls him a con artist, and there is an aspect of that: ASPD.

Somehow wrapped up in his entitlement, his victimhood, and his unending greed; he truly believes he should pay for NOTHING. We all owe him! Eventually, I learned that he had gone to prison for taking an older lady's equity in her home through a fraudulent mortgage transaction. Why, you ask? Because he deserved it and has little or no remorse, because somehow: HE IS THE VICTIM!

Did he know what he was doing? There is no doubt in my mind. Did I? The amazing thing is I and all the other dupes (including the woman he married recently) believed him. And when he is done with the new wife, when her money is gone or her will to give it to him; he'll move onto the next.