What are your theories of how your ex developed BPD?

[LeonVa]

I have been reading online quite a bit and several places mentioned BPDs tend to form in early adulthood and they might have suffered abandonment issues early in their childhood.

This fits my theory of my ex-wife and also a diagnosed BPD girl I met after separated.

My ex-wife is #11 of a 12 children family and when she was growing up, her parents were too busy to take care of the younger children, so she was basically raised by her #3 older sister (21 years older than her), I imagine the abandonment issue started there.

When she turned 12, she left her home country and immigrated with half of her family to U.S, it was a big change for her, new environment, new friends and all that.  Another form of abandonment?

When she turned 17, she dated a 24 year old, lost her virginity and the guy was very possessive (so I was told) and threatened if she leaves the relationship, he would kill whoever date her next. It was a short 6 month relationship and her next boyfriend (26 years old) rescued her. She graduated high school,  left her family, moved out and stayed with this guy for the next 10 years, engaged and then broke up.

This other BPD girl I met after I was separated from my ex-wife came from a two children family, I do not know what happened when she was young, so that part is blank, however, she was a cheerleader in high school, president of many academic clubs, very bright, graduated high school at 16, but then she told me she started dating this guy at 14 and he was 24 (he should've been arrested!), and then when she graduated, she moved in with the guy. At 17, had a kid, married at 18 and then divorced at 20.

So I'm seeing certain patterns here.  Seems like both of them had some traumatic event happened around 16 to 18 years old, left their families and friends to be with a guy, events happened in their early adulthood.

On top of it all, I always felt my BPD ex wife had a mentality of a teenager or early teen, her behaviors, reactions all fits that of a teenager and it's like she was stuck in time during her high school years.

So my conclusion is that the early childhood experience is important, however teen years are equally important especially around 15-18 years old.  If someone experienced "abnormal" times during both periods, they are in danger of developing a personality disorder.

PS: Both of them have no friends so to speak and especially female friends.  Can you see why? From high school to graduating high school, they were involved with a guy much older and they lost themselves.

They didn't have what regular girls had during college, the exchanges between girls, the gossip,  how to date, what are the common sense things to do and what is not... . 

Anyway, that's just my theory.

[ZeusRLX]

Ones I'd known were all different.

One I'm pretty sure was sexually abused by her father when she was a kid.

Others were not abused but lost parents or had them go through divorce when they were younger.

I think a large part of it is genetic though. It's nature VS nurture and I think both play a role in development of BPD. I don't know exactly what the percentage breakdown would be, I don't know if anybody knows.

I'd be inclined to say genetic factors play a larger role than childhood though (since I have known people who also had some problems in childhood/teenage years but they did not develop BPD) but this is just a guess.

P.S. Also, yes, many low functioning ones have no friends. But the last one for me had a LOT of female friends and was very social and seemed normal unless you were in a relationship with her. So even that part can be deceptive with some of the high functioning ones in my experience.

[mitatsu]

Only child very sensitive... .over zelous and religeous mum and father had dementia in her early teens also picked on in school... .shame but after reading her diary from years ago she has never had her own identity... .i hope one day she finds peace in herself 

[FannyB]

Only child who spent far too much time in an invalidating environment with her BPD 'Queen' mother whilst her father worked all the hours he could - presumably to protect his own sanity.  :'(

[Invictus01]

I am fairly certain my ex's narcissist mother just murdered her emotionally. She told me some rather crazy stories from her teen years and above (e.g. her mother never being supportive, telling her "why did you even bother applying to that college, you will never get in, you aren't good enough!", I imagine earlier years were no different, she just can't remember. She got the nature part, she got the nurture part... .Voila... .

[Trog]

Crazy cruel ass mother and docile, distant old father, eldest child expected to excel and torn down for being a regular teenager and not 'saintly' like the good old catholic upbringing imposes.

However looking at my stresses and abuses, though different ones, when young, at some point in the path she went BPD and I went caretaker, hence, the perfect storm.

She told me on our first date how I reminded her of her father (though I'm neither old nor distant), we both wanted to create a positive outcome from childhood pain. We created a total nightmare based on two horrendous marital examples. Comfortable abuse ensued and would be going on today had I not snapped.

Tbh, I'm far from healed and have very little interest or care in why she's an abusive nut bag and much more interest in my own clear and present issues

[Bassoutcast]

Twin, constantly fighting for affection. Parents were immigrants and their birth came too early for their plans so they weren't around much during childhood (she told me they taught her how to take a shower by herself while she was 4 and such), which triggered it.

Sexually traumatized by the age of 6, religious school, lack of any profound friendships, always being the outsider (to which I could relate). Constant negligence from her peers in school due to her being ethnically different then most of the kids, often a subject to cultural racism (that's the closest term I can find).

I was actually her first guy-friend, and we met when she was 18 and I was 19. She never trusted guys after the trauma she's been through, plus having a stalker through high-school.

Poor soul.  

[enlighten me]

Im convinced nature is the biggest factor.

My uBPD exwife raised by a single mum. Claimed to have been molested as a child. Blamed mum for everything. Mum had numerous boyfriends and two ex husbands. Mainly male friends. Mum said even as a baby she was different. Never happy.

My uBPD exgf raised by a single mum. Claimed to have things happen as a child and said was raped at 16.

From what ive seen they both had pretty good childhoods. They both got in trouble for their behaviour which they seem to have blown up and made themselves victims. I have friends who had terrible upbringings compared to my exs and they dont have any Issues.

Also my exgfs daughter has a lot of BPD traits. She hasnt had anything bad happen to her.

[Dr56]

Schizophrenic father, narcissistic mother. No physical abuse, but ongoing mental abuse, plus general dysfunction. Immigrant family strewn across a couple of continents. Youngest child by 10 years, so grew to be extremely people pleasing. Incredibly intelligent, very high functioning in school and work, which makes for a great facade. 

[zundertowz]

Father(possible narcisist) left when she was young, mother(possible BPD) married and divorced 3 times... .people coming and going her whole childhood.  Whats wierd is most of the people in her immediate family are alone now... .mother, father, sister, 4 uncles... .all of them alone.

[enlighten me]

Father(possible narcisist) left when she was young, mother(possible BPD) married and divorced 3 times... .people coming and going her whole childhood.  Whats wierd is most of the people in her immediate family are alone now... .mother, father, sister, 4 uncles... .all of them alone.

This is why I think nature is the predominant cause. It seems that the family history of mental health Issues that we see a lot here piint that way.

[zundertowz]

Father(possible narcisist) left when she was young, mother(possible BPD) married and divorced 3 times... .people coming and going her whole childhood.  Whats wierd is most of the people in her immediate family are alone now... .mother, father, sister, 4 uncles... .all of them alone.

This is why I think nature is the predominant cause. It seems that the family history of mental health Issues that we see a lot here piint that way.

Forgot to mention 2 kids in there early teens who she put on anti depressants... .one who needed them was suicidal with gender identity issues, was a cutter, and showed signs of BPD, was commited for a short time and one who didnt need them... .I think was just anxious from the drama in her life... .god I feel bad for those kids!

[dobie]

Emotionally immature (still) parents who had her at a young age a mother brewing with resentment a waste of a father alcoholic / dysfunctional and likely BPD

The child was never given proper unconditional love and was made to feel her feelings and opinions didn't count , plus from a young age she had to parent her parents

Dysfunctional all around , she told me her father never spoke or bothered with her as a kid and she felt he hated her , her mother selfish and angry trapped in a dysfunctional marriage the child made to feel at fault blamed , resented etc

Writing this out just makes me remember what chance did she have and I feel compassion rather than anger or hurt for that sad little girl  :'(

[Tay25]

I strongly believe the cause of my ex's BPD is her father. He is a very distant, shy person and I don't think she ever truly bonded with him. I only talked to him once in the year and a half we dated. Every time I saw him with her mother only her mom would talk, he was always just there.

I feel my ex has been searching for a real father, someone she can bond with or have some kind of emotional connection with. I believe she may have also projected many feelings she had of him onto me, since I was supposed to be the answer to what she was missing in her life (a real father).

[search4peace]

My exGF had a rigid, controlling, emotionally distant mother (Ex was estranged from her until her death from Alzheimers this year); father was quiet but not openly loving/supportive, probably CoD with the mother.  Father died when she was in college.  Ex had a brother who their mother adored and was often the standard of comparison to her.  Ex dated a black man in college, which she told me would have horrified her mom, so it was kept hidden fearing severe judgement. She lived with her exH before they were married, which she also kept secret, even knowing that her brother did the same thing before his marriage.

Separated from her H who basically walked out on her with a 2yo son. she dated 2 guys before I came along, all the while still legally separated, never divorced.

I can't judge the nature part, but she had plenty of poor/damaging nurturing.

[Recooperating]

Mom (uBPD) left his dad right after he was born. Kidnapped him and moved to the states, changed his name. He was told his father was dead. Lived with his grandparents and uncle (uN/BPD) very dysfunctional dynamics. Was extremely bullied and beaten up as a kid. Only child, mom worked 2 jobs and had little time for him. Mom married and divorced 8 (yes really... .8!    ) times. Uncle married and divorced a bunch of times, had around 9 kids and has no contact with the majority of them. Was moved from one place to another, never really had any friends... .Says he was sexually abused (but I'm not really sure that actually happened... .) At the age of 12 he found out his dad was alive and had to meet him and built a rs with the man... .This man was a lying cheating rich guy... .Suspected to be NPD... .Him being raised by his mom, he never could live up to the standards of this man and was called to be a looser plenty of times!

Not a real surprise he has issues... .

[Madison66]

My uBPD/NPD ex gf grew up in a seemingly normal looking family, but her Mom was emotionally immature and detached emotionally while her father was controlling and overbearing.  Both parents were very socially challenged.  My ex gf complained to me about never bonding with her Mom.  She also told me about sexual abuse she endured as a teen at the hands of a female HS coach.  At the same time, my ex gf told me of bad migraine headaches from a benign brain tumor.  She stated that she felt no one would listen regarding the sex abuse and the headaches.  The abuse and detached relationship with her mom most likely contributed to a mistrust of women and no close female friends.  Then after college, she married a guy in med school and they lived in different areas of the country for long periods of time including when their first child was born.  Finally together and right after the birth of their third child, her H left her for another woman.  She painted him completely black, but it appears he fled all the chaos to save himself.  Between her ex H moving out and meeting me, my ex gf had a number of cyber guys going that she met online.  One even came and stayed with her and her kids on a visit to town.  All three of her kids have issues ranging from OCD, Autism Spectrum and Childhood anxiety.

Bottom-line, I believe there was some "nature" involved in developing/defining my ex gf's strong PD traits and I also think they were driven by her experiences of a detached early r/s with her mom, sex abuse as a teen, medical care neglect by her parents, abandonment by her ex H, etc.  Diagnosed PD or not, this all has contributed to many traits that I couldn't deal with in a healthy way over the coarse of the r/s.  My own T, who saw us both together and individually until my ex abandoned T, explained all of this to me but I didn't want to listen at that time.  Lesson learned... .

[myself]

If her stories are to be believed, her issues come from abuse throughout childhood both physical and sexual. She's an overly sensitive person, which she may have been born like or this may have turned her into (probably some of both). What's kept it in play? She runs from her problems instead of facing them, self medicating and scapegoating others, which helps her house of cards not fall down even though that would ultimately be best for her so she could truly build herself back up again in a less disordered form.

[CloseToFreedom]

Very good question. Of course I can only guess, as I'm not a professional.

I think it has to do with her parents, of course. Her father left her and her mother when she was a child. Details about this are vague - apparently he cheated on her mother, but I also heard stories about how bad he felt and how he was near suicidal sometimes. Her mother is a lot like her daughter (my ex), very strong in talking, talks a lot about herself, when you talk about your own feelings you often get the feeling she's not really listening and just twisting it in a way it is about her. My ex used to complain about that actually, and all I could think of was that my ex was doing the same to me.

So my guess is a combination of no father in her life (he went to the other side of the world - perhaps running like we have ran? haha) and PERHAPS a BPD mother. Don't know for sure of course but its not an ideal situation to grow up in at any rate.

[maxen]

my exw's mother was/is emotionally juvenile and an appalling gameplayer, who often demeaned her daughter, and, equally important, her father was/is an abdicator. my ex said she didn't know how her father put up with her mother, and i never saw him intervene in his children's lives or defend them against his wife. i think he's in thrall. he also believes that this is what a christian marriage is supposed to look like. unfortunately this seems to have affected my exw's ideas about the roles of men and women.

now that the marriage is over and i've learned about BPD, i have to wonder if her mother has it also. there appears to be a genetic predisposition that expresses in the wrong environments: www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com/professionals/notes-from-professionals/john-gunderson/, www.BPD.about.com/od/causesofBPD/a/BPDgenes.htm. so it's nature + nurture.

[cosmonaut]

I think that there are a number of factors.  I do think that my ex has a genetic predisposition and from what I know of her family, there seems to be some clear evidence of that.  Her mother has some unmistakeable BPD traits even if I don't see clear cut BPD.

I think that growing up in such complete and utter chaos had a huge role too.  Her original abandonment wound was certainly her father who literally did abandon her often as a child.  He was a serious addict at the time and he was consumed with his own struggles.  Even when he was home he was drunk or high.  He would be gone for sometimes days at a time.  There would sometimes be no food in the house.  Her older sister confirmed this to me.  Her mother was divorced from her father at the time and wasn't there for her either since she was off trying to find a new husband.  This was all while my ex was astonishingly young and were it not for some neighbors and her older sister who knows what would have become of her.  I do think my ex is an extreme case and she had an unusually crazy childhood, but to me the causes are quite clear.

[tortuga]

For my uBPDw; I really don't know. There's strong evidence this is genetic, as EVERY woman on her side of the family (grandmother, mother, uBPDw, her sister, her sister's daughter, and now our daughter) has traits.

They have a reputation for "not getting along with each other" - (especially uBPDw and sister); though they can pretend and "play nice" sometimes during family events. Usually.  My uBPDmil often says some very invalidating things.  You can't ever really "get sick" or tell her you're sick, because - sheesh, you're always "just faking it to get attention".  This also seems to be uBPDw's modus operandi.  My uBPDw has told me she was practically raised by her grandmother; her biological father left the family when she was 3. Apparently, he was quite the adulterer. uBPD-grandmother was very paranoid, and as long as she was the center of attention, she was pleasant to be around. But if anyone said or did anything she didn't like, she could turn on a dime. So there were plenty of traumatic things going on in uBPDw's childhood.


As for BPDd19, she was very recently diagnosed, and I guess they're not sure yet. But it seems to fit.  For interactions with uBPDw, I can say that uBPDw has a similar invalidating "communication style" - when she's dysregulated. She can be very pressuring.  However: the rest of the time, we both tried our very best to provide a stable, happy childhood for BPDd19.  There was no corporal punishment. We both spent a lot of time with both of our kids. There was no neglect or abandonment, as far as I know. If there was any physical or sexual abuse, I was not aware of it, and it was well-hidden. (as things like this often are). 

I can say that there were some things about BPDd19, when she was a very young child, that did not seem normal.  She was a pretty difficult toddler. Physically precocious, she would climb out of her crib before she could walk. She'd lower herself down the slats, and crawl into our bedroom to be with us. She demanded to sleep with us (and we allowed her).  She refused to take naps during the day, and would stand in her crib crying and crying. She hated isolation, especially at night.  In that regard, she was very stressful to uBPDw, and looking back at it, I can see that this stress probably was causing some dysregulation, and poor coping on uBPDw's part.

By around age 3 or 4, we had gradually weaned BPDd19 to sleeping on her own. This took a lot of time and attention.

Until about age 13, she seemed mostly pretty normal; she was a good student, had friends, had interests and extracurricular activities, and was very talented. 

This was approximately the time where uBPDw began to go through a pretty bad crisis.  I had an interruption in employment, and she had to start working. (she was a SAHM before).  This was when her behavior started to get pretty bad, and there was also a lot of stress on our relationship. (uBPDw painted me black quite often at this time). I was depressed. We never fought or argued in front of the kids.  But I have to accept now, that there must have been some collateral effect on BPDd19, because this was when her school performance started to drop off, and when she started having problems with friendships, and she dropped out of her activities in school.  Her sleep schedule was disturbed, and she would have trouble getting out of bed to get to school. She started self-harming, drugs, and there was apparently a covert suicide attempt that she managed to conceal from us. She graduated from HS, but only through an independent study program. She was able to enroll in college, but missed a lot of classes because nobody was around to make sure she got out of bed in the morning. After another suicide attempt, she had to quit school and come back home, where she was involuntarily hospitalized for 3 days. Thats where she was diagnosed BPD.  We then enrolled her in an RTC. (I'm not going to name them until after - because nobody has mentioned them on this site yet - hopefully, I will have nice things to say).  So far, she seems to be improving. We keep praying.

If I were to say what "caused" it - to me, it seems genetic in this family. There are some poor behaviors and coping mechanisms that these women have passed down from generation to generation. Obviously, I can't say that they are BPD - but they all seem to have many of the traits. To a layperson, it seems unmistakable. But I'm still a layman.

[enlighten me]

One thing that seems prevelant here is that the dads left and were aldulterers. I wonder how much of this is true or how much was the mums projection. I wonder how many of us that have left our BPD exs have been painted as adulterers?

My ex wifes mum painted a picture of her ex as an adulterer where I have been told it was her sleeping around.

I would also like to ask any parents of BPD children whether their behaviour caused you to reprimand them more than their siblings? I ask this as my exs both said they were victimised as children and their siblings were treated better. My thought on this is did they bring it on themselves? Because of their behaviour did they draw more negative attention?

[valet]

My ex's mom is a clear cut pwBPD/NPD. Parents divorced when she was very young (3 or 4?), and she only saw her father maybe once every other week. She never bonded with him, and was forced into an emotional parent role for her mother, who constantly shifted between splitting my ex and her sister from black/white.

Her father has NPD traits, but the more I think about it he was almost just certainly emotionally abused and bullied out of the situation by her mother.

I'd say that nearly 6 months out of the year my ex is both split black by and splits black her mother, and that this is the main thing that she triangulates around when she finds emotional intimacy on a more challenging level. My ex has also claimed at various moments that when she was a kid her sister didn't love her, but again, I think this is more a result of her own mother's disassociative and splitting behaviors.

[Infared]

After reading up on BPD extensively... .Things started to make sense for me.   This is where her victimhood started!  (totally a fact of her environment).

Her father ran off with another woman when she was 5 years old.  He took the family dog as well.  On top of that her Mother was just devastated at losing her husband. (I really loved her Mom... .but I would have to say she settled for much less than and is still devastated to this day that he ran off).

So a 5-year old child loses her Dad, her dog and (in effect) loses the Mother that she used to know. If she interacts with her Dad, who she longs for she is hurting her Mother, directly (in her mind). Twisted place for a child to be. Major emotional damage scenario. No doubt. She also gets a VERY traumatic introduction to abandonment on all levels at a very, very young age when she is developing.  

I believe she has a disorder, mental illness... .or whatever you want to call it.  She does nothing but latch on to and then abandons every man she has ever been with.

She see no problem with herself (no treatment is ever going to happen if there is no problem), so she is not going to change.  

I have to say... .it works very well for her. She is never alone... .she plays victim to whomever gets rescued and manipulates everyone and she has control over her situation. As soon as she feels the slightest hint of abandonment... .she is off to the next guy... .no fuss... .no muss. That is what I observed.

There is no reason to change... .She always has her needs met.

I also believe that she is COMPLETELY clueless to the emotional devastation that she causes others. She just flicks the switch. New day, new guy... .no problem... .(ater you felt you were her one and only... .duh)... .and I believe she thinks that everyone is like her.   She certainly was completely smug and sort of enjoyed the pain she caused me.  ... .of that I am certain.

Sick stuff.  I have no solution, other than absolute NC. ... .and for me ... .at times... .that still feels like a bandaid.

[going places]

Generational Curse.

Great Grandfather was a N, cheated on his wife, who literally died of a broken heart, married his mistress before grandma's body was cold. Was married for over 35 years, from the early 1940's-early 1980's when she found out he was having an affair. Church man too. Had 1 son.

Grandfather is a N-ASPD, cheated on his wife w/ a co-worker. After 25+ years of marriage, he divorces his wife, and moves out of state with his gf. Church man too. He has 2 sons (17 and 22 at the time of divorce).

Ex, is a N-ASPD, cheated on his wife (God only knows how many times before) with a co-worker. After 25 years of marriage he is divorced and is now with his gf. Church man too... .He as 3 kids (17, 19 and 20 at the time of the divorce)

ALL THREE men (and I use that term loosely) had porn addictions, 'went to church', believed deep in their hearts and out loud w/ their mouths, that THEY were superior; more intelligent, everyone else was stupid or incompetent; their ideas were always better, and they all were very entitled.

Ex's brother is still married... .(20 years in 2016) and they have an almost 16 year old boy.

Ex BIL had SERIOUS anger issues; but he also has the "superior intelligence, everyone is stupid and incompetent, and VERY entitled mentality"

It's a generational curse. Scripture speaks of it.

[maxen]

my signature is a psalm, so within that context:

Church man too.

i mentioned above that my ex-fil was convinced he and his wife had a model christian marriage (he's a bishop, mind). neither he nor his wife were ever unfaithful, but they seem to countenance infidelity without too much horror, which they might as two of their three children were unfaithful, and the parents managed to find reasons why the other spouse (one of whom is me, see) were responsible. what they are is arrogant to the point of moral disorder. the older i get, the lesson i seem to learn repeatedly is that psychology is stronger than god. (this is a slight derail, sorry.)

[going places]

my signature is a psalm, so within that context:

Church man too.

i mentioned above that my ex-fil was convinced he and his wife had a model christian marriage (he's a bishop, mind). neither he nor his wife were ever unfaithful, but they seem to countenance infidelity without too much horror, which they might as two of their three children were unfaithful, and the parents managed to find reasons why the other spouse (one of whom is me, see) were responsible. what they are is arrogant to the point of moral disorder. the older i get, the lesson i seem to learn repeatedly is that psychology is stronger than god. (this is a slight derail, sorry.)

Naw, not in my opinion.

God, the REAL God, trumps anything on earth.

The unfortunate thing is that 'humans' pervert His Word, and His Ways.

Humans NEED someone to 'blame' and God takes the fall.

Unfortunate, but it's the way it goes.

God cannot be mocked, and He is not "fooled, tricked, nor can things be hidden from Him".

So no matter how many times someone shows up for church, volunteers at church, or is an elder in the church, like it or not, God sees every time they log into a porn site. God hears every time they gossip and cause dissention and discord. God knows the hate, and murder in their thoughts and heart... .

Fortunately, God blesses His Own w/ Discernment.

He blesses people with the ability to explain human psychology, physiology, etc.

And thru that, we learn so much about human behavior, and why.

[tortuga]

One thing that seems prevelant here is that the dads left and were aldulterers. I wonder how much of this is true or how much was the mums projection. I wonder how many of us that have left our BPD exs have been painted as adulterers?

uBPD-grandmother-in-law: husband was killed in WWII.  She married another guy, who raised uBPD-mother-in-law. His brother also lived in the same house. . . and when the stepdad died, he basically stepped-in as uBPD-grandmother-in-law's spouse for the last 20 years. uBPD-grandmother-in-law asked to be buried next to the brother.

uBPD-mother-in-law: it's very difficult to imagine her having affairs. I have no idea, though there were a few boyfriends before she remarried.  uBPDw's stepfather is a great guy. Though I think he's a codependent. He puts up with a lot of stuff; but having a wife, and two daughters with uBPD. . . no wonder he has stomach problems.

uBPD-sister-in-law; on her third husband. She cheated a whole lot.

uBPDw said that her sister mistreated her stole boyfriends, lied to get her into trouble, etc.  Her mother and her sister would gang up on her and blame everything on her. I'm reasonably certain, from what her stepdad has told me, that this is true. Though who can tell?

As far as my BPDd19: no, I did not leave or cheat. She had the best, most stable family we could manage, and of all of her peers in school, she was nearly the only kid who had parents that were still together. Very few of her friends parents were not divorced.

I would also like to ask any parents of BPD children whether their behaviour caused you to reprimand them more than their siblings?

Yes.  My BPDd19 was, as I said upthread, a difficult toddler. Lots of unconsolable crying, temper tantrums, trouble sleeping, trouble following rules. Though, this phase only lasted until she was about 5.  From age 5 to about 12, she was an angel.

I ask this as my exs both said they were victimised as children and their siblings were treated better.

BPDd19 did have a bit of a persecution-complex at times.  uBPDw was also definitely harder on her than on our son.  But I always chalked that up to the standard oedipal thing. I didn't see any of it as unfair or preferential. BPDd19 felt persecuted at school, and among the other kids at school, etc.  She never really complained about how her mom treated her until she turned 18 or so.

My thought on this is did they bring it on themselves? Because of their behaviour did they draw more negative attention?

That's a good question, and I don't think there's any way to really *know* this, definitively. Because interactions are two-way things. So how can I define as normal or abnormal, what I witnessed between a borderline daughter and her mother?

When I was a kid, my older brother had these friends who lived down the street.  They were both either ADD, or Autistic, or something like that. Their mother had some type of schizophrenia, from what I heard later.  I remember being over at that house and being witness to some extreme behaviors. Emotional acting out. Screaming and yelling.  I would tend to just get the hell out of there whenever things went "south".  So I can say that I *do* know what abnormal looks like.  And I don't think that uBPDw ever got really far off the rails with BPDd; unless that stuff happened when I was away at work. . .