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Author Topic: My BPDex told me my replacement has BPD... and she's struggling with him  (Read 5767 times)
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« on: May 22, 2015, 06:06:48 PM »

My experience just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

My story in a nutshell, numerous topics on here:  My BPDex (never diagnosed but two different therapists told me during my own sessions that she shows strong characteristics) broke up with me for the seventh time in February.  Within two weeks, she was with my latest replacement, the security guard at her work, a guy who also had just been divorced from his wife.  This was the third (and third successive) time I had been replaced after a breakup, and it was by far the most "final" one of them all.  We had NC for two months, until she broke it to apologize after my replacement made a passive aggressive comment on an old photo of she and I that was still on her Facebook.  During that convo, she was quite remorseful and love bombed me considerably.  I was dating someone at the time, so it stopped just short of a recycle attempt.

Fast forward to this past weekend.  I went out with mutual friends, she caught wind of it on Facebook, and sent a passive aggressive e-mail to me ("Should I come ruin your party tonight?"  She again e-mailed me the next day to apologize, saying she was sad and felt left out of the group, and sent it out of jealousy.  I replied that I appreciated the apology, and let her know that I love her very much and was open to being friends with her.  I have broken up with the girl I was seeing, and mentioned this in my response.

And then... .

She Facebook messaged me on Tuesday, and said she appreciated my e-mail, and that she really wants to have a friendship with me, but "can't right now" - meaning my replacement would not be okay with it.  However, she said we could still talk from time to time, and so we did for most of the day via messenger.  I noticed she never mentioned him, and when she would talk about plans for that night (obviously going with him) she would refer only to herself - "I am going to the game" and so on.  It was a nice, normal conversation.

She messaged me again on Wednesday evening.  He was at work.  Again, normal conversation.  She has taken a second job at an awesome company, and I'm really happy for her and told her so.  Then... .

Almost out of the blue, she told me my replacement has diagnosed BPD, and their relationship is very difficult as a result.  I had previously floated the idea of her having BPD to her, and she (of course) always would deny it and become irritated at the suggestion.  Thus, she told me Replacement has BPD, it's intense, and "see, that's why I don't have it!"  I didn't argue, and left it alone.

However, shortly afterward, still talking, she brought the conversation back to BPD Replacement.  She told me they have had several big fights.  How last week, he became so upset that he told her he was leaving her and threw all of his belongings in her apartment complex's garbage (they do not live together).  She told me he hits himself, and if she even says someone looks good ("So and so has nice hair" he will become upset with her.  "How am I supposed to feel when you say he looks good and I don't look like that?" was her exact quote as to what he will say.  She told me he was in a motorcycle accident a few years ago, when he intentionally rode on the wrong side of the road in a suicide attempt.  How he joined the Marines out of high school to "die honorably."


He has been in and out of therapy for several years, and just went back at her instance.  The dumpster toss was the catalyst.  She says she wants to stay with him because he is trying to get better, but doesn't know if it's something she can continue doing.  "He has a lot of good in him, and we've had some amazing times together."  I swear, it was like hearing myself talk about her. 

They have been dating two and a half months and it's already happening.  She told me I was literally the first person she has told.  Not even her mother knows.  None of their friends.  I don't know if this is a recycle attempt, or just a way to vent.  She thanked me over and over for listening to her, saying it felt immensely better to tell me these things.  But at the same time, she told me she felt incredibly guilty putting me in a position to hear it, and felt guilty that she was telling someone about his behaviors - much less her ex.

We briefly spoke yesterday, but only about her new job - she is still working with him at her full time one.  He didn't come up.  I haven't heard from her at all today.  However, I saw that Replacement has deleted his Facebook account.  Who knows what caused it, but now I see it all so differently.

My head is spinning at this news.  A BPD dating a BPD?  A waif/quiet BPDer (her) dating an acting out BPDer (him)?  Was she drawn to him because of the disorder?  Is she now in the same position I was in for years, but with a MUCH more intense BPD partner?  Are they both going to just spontaneously combust? 

Of course... .she could have stayed with me.
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 06:17:23 PM »

projection blame shifting and triangulation?

Approach with caution friend the black hole can suck you in 
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 06:26:01 PM »

this doesn't sound good.  No matter how strong the pull of the black hole you have to walk away, and keep walking.  The further you get the easier it will be.  good luck.
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 06:32:55 PM »

projection blame shifting and triangulation?

Approach with caution friend the black hole can suck you in 

This was my first thought when I read the post, in particular: triangulation.

Secondly, it doesn't completely surprise me that people with BPD tendencies find each other. Obviously, it doesn't have the yin/yang of a BPD/co-dependent attraction. What it does have is lots and lots of chaos, drama, and intensity, which it seems people with BPD crave. My ex had an ex-boyfriend in her life who at various times I wondered was also BPD.

But this screams of triangulation to me as well.

Also, in general I doubt this kind of communication with your ex can be helpful to your recovery because it seems quite intimate and personal (and she's also placing you back in your confidante, caretaker position... .just a guess), and that's going to put you back in the mindset of the relationship and craving that dynamic again.

I know it's extremely difficult, but it will be best if you could avoid this kind of communication with your ex in the future most likely.
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 06:51:14 PM »

She doesn't talk about him much, but when she does he's worse than her?

Do you feel it's helpful/healing to hear about her with somebody else?

Are you being set up to rescue her (and are you actually able to)?
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 07:35:45 PM »

Myself, she didn't talk about him during that one conversation on Tuesday.  It was like she was dissociating him from our talk - like being friends with me was this separate thing from her life with him - which I guess it is, but that is how she shaped it is all.  She has mentioned him several other times, especially the next day, of course.

So I should look at this as a recycle attempt?  I can see the triangulation, except this time I'm not immediately biting.  Maybe that's why she hasn't contacted me today.  She made it clear after describing his BPD in detail that she wants to stay with him, because she is getting help.  But she definitely alluded to not being with him long term.  I'm a little surprised she hasn't contacted me today, but maybe she is "feeling guilty" (projection) about blabbing to me on Wednesday.

I will not be in a relationship with her again.  Nope.  I can talk to her and be a friend, and if that means being a soother and caretaker, then okay.  But I won't be the boyfriend.  Part of why I think she took this second job is that if she eventually gets on there full time, she can quit her current full time job (where again, the replacement boyfriend is the security guard) and have a clean breakup with him, instead of one where she has to still see him at work.  And she could likely find a replacement at this other job, too.  That's another reason I wouldn't take her back - she has done this numerous times.

I'm just shocked that she found another BPDer who has STRONGER characteristics than she does.  She usually goes for naive or gullible guys who just want a girlfriend, and this guy had just been dumped by his wife.  I think we know why.  My ex told me they had been in separate bedrooms for over a year before she filed for divorce - but it wasn't his fault, of course.  I can't believe SHE could be that naive, but she needed to attach... .

She told me "I knew he had emotional issues, but I didn't know he had BPD and it was this intense."  So she went for another vulnerable guy, and has gotten more than she bargained for.  I can't say I feel bad for her.  She made her own bed.
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 07:35:58 PM »

4Years,

A few thoughts:

Firstly, please tell me what kind of "lucky charm" you have, so that I can be sure I never carry one like yours.

Secondly, she is setting the stage with textbook triangulation. She is running to you with her tales of woe (Victim) regarding her abuse at the hands of her BPD SO (Persecutor). All you need to do is to comfort her or take her side in the struggle and you'll be the Rescuer. If you take her back, you'll be the ultimate Rescuer. (":)ecisions! Decisions!" Said with a smile.)

Thirdly: If he can keep her in the relationship long enough for her to accept the abuse as "normal" (because she is a waif, introverted), the relationship might actually work ("work" is used loosely here). Because of her fractured self/low self-esteem/emotional immaturity, which already cause bonding issues, she could very well form a trauma bond with him under the present circumstances (Again, she will have to internalize the abuse as being "normal" for this to occur.). Rather than spontaneously combust, if the relationship continues, they might possibly slowly consume one another as the BPD complex dictates taking (in both parties) rather than giving. (Her statements seem to indicate that the "consumption" may already be occurring.) It won't be pretty.

How readily does she identify herself as the victim? If she takes on/plays that role with ease, quite possibly he will be a good match for her as she will be continually victimized. (Of course, to a healthy person it will be seen as it truly is, a dysfunctional nightmare.).
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 11:53:39 PM »

Thank you, apollotech.

Firstly, please tell me what kind of "lucky charm" you have, so that I can be sure I never carry one like yours.

I can't disagree, I think I'm the most fortunate" (using that term VERY loosely) ex on the Staying board when it comes to wanting contact and answers from our exes.  I started posting here because I truly thought my relationship (of any kind) was over with my ex.  I guess I was wrong.

Secondly, she is setting the stage with textbook triangulation. She is running to you with her tales of woe (Victim) regarding her abuse at the hands of her BPD SO (Persecutor). All you need to do is to comfort her or take her side in the struggle and you'll be the Rescuer. If you take her back, you'll be the ultimate Rescuer. (":)ecisions! Decisions!" Said with a smile.)

She has done it before, just not in this way.  This time around, she casually dropped the "my boyfriend has BPD" news in an "oh by the way" kind of method, but after I was receptive to hearing what she had to say, the floodgates opened.

Two years ago, I was replaced with a guy she met at college that she had known for six days.  We were still friends and even hung out a few days before she first slept with him.  I was devastated, because I had been her first boyfriend and first sexual partner, and up until that point, she had broken up with me several times, but never replaced me.  I begged her to take me back, and she reiterated we were through.  I then dated another girl for about a month, and my ex was hysterically upset that I was doing so.  When I broke up with the girl and broke NC with my ex, we were sleeping together a week later... .as she still dated the replacement, too.  A month of "not knowing what she wants" ensued, until one day, out of the blue, she decided the replacement was a dependent boy who wanted to play video games, and we were back together.

This current replacement makes that 2013 guy look like a Harvard scholar who makes $2 million a year.  But I suppose the same methods are being started with me again.  I cannot fathom how she stays with him for another second, but... .

Thirdly: If he can keep her in the relationship long enough for her to accept the abuse as "normal" (because she is a waif, introverted), the relationship might actually work ("work" is used loosely here). Because of her fractured self/low self-esteem/emotional immaturity, which already cause bonding issues, she could very well form a trauma bond with him under the present circumstances (Again, she will have to internalize the abuse as being "normal" for this to occur.). Rather than spontaneously combust, if the relationship continues, they might possibly slowly consume one another as the BPD complex dictates taking (in both parties) rather than giving. (Her statements seem to indicate that the "consumption" may already be occurring.) It won't be pretty.

She definitely doesn't see his behavior as normal, but seems to be accepting it (for now) since it's part of a diagnosed disorder.  "I feel like it's beyond his control right now, but he's trying to improve and I respect that" is the exact quote she gave me as to why she isn't running for the hills right now.  I think there are definite deal breakers, such as physical abuse to her or anything abusive to her younger sister, but she seems to have a "he can't help it" mentality to the whole situation right now.  But I can't help but think she is formulating an exit plan, whether that's trying to pull me back in, or getting this second job to find an escape from him.

How readily does she identify herself as the victim? If she takes on/plays that role with ease, quite possibly he will be a good match for her as she will be continually victimized. (Of course, to a healthy person it will be seen as it truly is, a dysfunctional nightmare.)

How readily?  ALL the time.  Her life would be perfect if she just didn't live in our current city.  Her job sucks.  She has a honeymoon period with anything new, but eventually grows to loathe it.  This new job just started.  Give it a month. 

I think she can play the victim in situations she can create/project, like saying I'm keeping her in this city she "hates" or her job which is so awful.  But when it's literally a situation where she is being abused, I can't see her tolerating it.  I guess time will tell.
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 03:07:47 AM »

The first thing I thought was is he really BPD or is this her excuse for how he behaves because of her actions? Now that you mentoned BPD to her maybe she is using this to prject her behaviour.

How much do you know about this guy? Is it likely he is BPD?

She definately seems to be triangulating you. Might line you up for a recycle once things go wrong in her new relationship.
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2015, 07:17:18 AM »

Excerpt
How readily?  ALL the time.  Her life would be perfect if she just didn't live in our current city.  Her job sucks.  She has a honeymoon period with anything new, but eventually grows to loathe it.  This new job just started.  Give it a month. 

Jeez 4years, this sounds like my ex - always something that she needs to run away from.   Incidentally, she spent 5 years in a relationship that turned abusive after 2. Some borderlines feel comfortable in abusive relationships because as well as playing to their victim mentality it evokes memories of the twisted concept of love they learned as a child.
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2015, 09:54:15 AM »

Enlighten,  believe me, I've wondered that too.  But she has been quite specific about things that have happened with him.  So either she is one of the great storytellers of all time, or she's telling the truth.  Him deleting his Facebook yesterday is much more eye opening after talking to her.  It was also the first day at her new part time job... .connect the dots... .he had to disrupt it... .maybe.

I have never met this replacement, so anything I am hearing or learning is coming from my ex.  But let's say she is lying about all of it.  She doesn't have to tell such a convoluted story.  He can just be another "loser."  But maybe if she's trying to reel me back in, she thinks she needs to have a grandiose reason.  Again, for the record, I believe she is telling me the truth, but yeah, I've wondered.

I think she thought he was yet another naive, vulnerable guy like the other two guys I was replaced with.  She looks for a controllable alternative who wants an attachment and isn't going to challenge or question her.  But the "emotional issues" he has and the divorce he just went through didn't only make him vulnerable, they are part of a much larger problem.

My ex has never simply broken up with a replacement without triangulating me back in first.  So her saying she wants to stay with him "right now" because he is working on himself is the same thing as "not knowing what (she) wants" with my replacement two years ago.  She gets to weigh her options this way.  And always have a boyfriend no matter what.  I don't doubt that she could find a replacement at her new job, either.

My ex is an incredibly self aware person.  She acknowledges her behaviors, admits when she feels guilt, and morphs it into playing the victim - she cannot defend her behaviors, but she also cannot work on them, because she believes LIFE changes will fix things.  Thus, I can't see her "accepting" the replacement's disorder and staying with him.  I think she's working on an exit strategy, and checking to see if I'm an option.

I'll also add that I don't think she consciously makes these decisions.  I think right now she does want to stay with him, but as soon as she knows she has someone else emotionally, she will leave.  I think she wanted to tell me about his BPD, but also it kind of spilled out of her because again, emotionally she can't regulate herself.  Anyway, that's a broader discussion.
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2015, 11:45:33 AM »

4Years,

This is quite disturbing right out of the gate. Let's look at what she is telling you, and more importantly, herself:

"I feel like it's beyond his control... ."

This is loaded with problems. She is already excusing his behavior as it is "beyond his control." When you speak to her again, and you will, and she brings this up and excuses his behaviors, and she will, I would ask her, If he is not responsible for his behaviors/actions, exactly "who" is responsible? Be prepared for her, I did this, which caused him to do that reasoning. This argument, to me, indicates that a trauma bond may already be in place, if (and this is a big "if" she is genuinely accepting responsibility for his actions. Although it appears to be an argument in which she is accepting responsibility for his actions, and she might be, it quite possibly may only be a statement of control: If I do A, I can cause B. I point this out because a pwBPD generally has difficulty accepting responsibility for anything, but will readily try to control everything.

I am also concerned that she used the word "feel" rather than "think" to express her thoughts. As "feelings" (emotions) can easy become reality for a pwBPD, is she perhaps now generating a reality in which his behavior is now okay, is now normal? She may very well be entering into dangerous territory here if this is the case. As she makes and drinks her own Kool-Aid, she could easily drift further and further into "real" danger with this guy.

"... .right now... ."

This is misplaced/unfounded hope. This is the trap that we're all acquainted with. It quietly envelopes us in that "tomorrow will be better" mode of thinking. Unfortunately, for most of us, that "tomorrow" with our BPD partners never came. His behavior is excused "today" because "tomorrow" it will be different. This is open ended, where is the cut off point, where is the conclusion? If I were you, I would gently press her on stating a "date" for that said "tomorrow."

"... .but he's trying to improve and I respect that." This just qualifies what was said earlier, hope and expectations without conclusion. Seeing and respecting his efforts to improve is wonderful... .until that "respect" overrides her own responsibility and obligation to maintain/protect herself. This also indicates, to me, her willingness to stay in the situation, acceptance .

"I think she can play the victim in situations she can create/project, like saying I'm keeping her in this city she "hates" or her job which is so awful.  But when it's literally a situation where she is being abused, I can't see her tolerating it.  I guess time will tell."

I think the answer to her need/willingness to play the Victim role lies within her bedroom preferences. This is a rhetorical question for yourself: Did she enjoy being controlled in the bedroom? If she prefers/likes being the victim there, she is possibly enmeshed with victimization. It is possibly not a role that she is playing, but rather one of her realities. As such, she might be wholeheartedly willing to accept his abuse as it fulfills that reality.
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2015, 12:01:40 PM »

I think that even if he is BPD then some of what she is saying is still about her. My exs did what I called veiled confessions where they would pose a question with a bit too much detail or place it onto someone else.
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2015, 12:40:48 PM »

I first heard about BPD when my now-ex accused me of having it. I believe that somewhere in her past she had been diagnosed with it but as is pretty standard with this illness she denied it applied to her. So she projected it onto me when the disordered problems in the r/s arose (and who knows who else in her previous interactions). That helped her feel above it and in victim mode at the same time. As far as 'being controlled in the bedroom' goes, she often spoke of being abused as a child, which lead her to NOT want to be controlled sexually (she preferred being the one who controlled, which included withholding being physical). Although there are many similarities in many of our stories, each of our exes is different. Some may be more self aware, honest, deceptive, whatever. The thing to do is keep an eye on our own steps in life, making sure we avoid as many traps as we can. Too many of us have had to chew our own feet off, so to speak, to get free.
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2015, 02:44:59 PM »

Apollo, that is great analysis.  It makes sense given the words she used, but I would be surprised if she accepted responsibility for his actions.  Not shocked, but surprised.  I think if I were to ask her who is to blame, she would blame BPD itself.  She told me they have had several "big" fights, but not what led to them, only "he gets so angry."  She also said he would NEVER (she used all caps on that word) hurt her, only himself.  So I can only imagine an argument where he invokes his lack of self worth and says she doesn't deserve him.  That was apparently what he said when he threw everything in the dumpster, that he was leaving her because SHE deserved better, and that he was throwing all of his stuff away because he "wouldn't need it anymore" - a veiled suicide threat.

She also called him "crazy" and "now you know all about my (poopy) relationship" so he isn't being cast as some damaged angel flower or anything.

Here is another snippet of what she said:

"I genuinely like him, and see that there's so much good there.  But his self image is the worst I've ever experienced.  He actually hates himself.  Obviously if things remain this way, I can't handle such an unstable relationship.  So I guess we'll see.  But I'm willing to at least try, because we have very good times too.  We have some really good times, but then we have reeeeally bad times. Worse than you and I ever had.  If this therapy doesn't work for him there's no way I can handle it.  But the fact he's trying means a lot.  He's aware of it, and wants to fix himself.  Ultimately, I just want him to be happier.  He's miserable.  Has been for his entire adult life."



She puts off a vibe that she knows he is very troubled, but doesn't want to immediately let him go.  But when she said she wanted to keep trying because they have had "really good" times together, I just thought of how many times I have said that about wanting to stay with HER.  It's amazing to see her experiencing it now, albeit with a much more volatile person.

To answer the "bedroom" question in as PG rated as possible - she spoke of wanting me to be in control, but would regularly veto things during sex, "I don't want that position right now" and so on.  Thus, it became about pleasing her, rather than controlling her - which led to her constantly asking me if I was "all right" during sex, which would throw me off, like I was taking some sort of monitored test.  Sometimes it was great, other times it was incredibly flat because it would feel like a performance evaluation.  She almost never turned down the opportunity, though.

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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2015, 05:23:42 PM »

"I genuinely like him, and see that there's so much good there.  But his self image is the worst I've ever experienced.  He actually hates himself.  Obviously if things remain this way, I can't handle such an unstable relationship.  So I guess we'll see.  But I'm willing to at least try, because we have very good times too.  We have some really good times, but then we have reeeeally bad times. Worse than you and I ever had.  If this therapy doesn't work for him there's no way I can handle it.  But the fact he's trying means a lot.  He's aware of it, and wants to fix himself.  Ultimately, I just want him to be happier.  He's miserable.  Has been for his entire adult life."


She puts off a vibe that she knows he is very troubled, but doesn't want to immediately let him go.  But when she said she wanted to keep trying because they have had "really good" times together, I just thought of how many times I have said that about wanting to stay with HER.  It's amazing to see her experiencing it now, albeit with a much more volatile person.


4Years,

I almost wrote this earlier, but I didn't: in the relationship that she is now in, she is going to become the you of the relationship that y'all had together. Karma is knocking at the door, and it is there to collect. I am not saying that to be mean or vindictive. This may be her best opportunity to actually face herself, albeit through another person.
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2015, 08:14:44 PM »

Hello apollotech. I thought your analysis was also spot on. I felt the same conclusion as you reached while reading this thread. Reality has come full circle for her. A life lesson. Hard won. Rapidly approaching.

4Years5Months. I am so sorry you have had to endure this garbage. It is hardly fair... .but you sound to be doing pretty well in yourself. Hats off to you.

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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2015, 08:52:45 PM »

Ok... .this sounds crazy... .but I'll tell you what my gut is telling me... .

It sounds like she is intentionally triangulating you as an exit strategy.

Her strategy is to show you that she is worthwhile.

She is doing this by trying to gain your admiration for her role in helping to fix this guy.

She is trying to show you how she wants you to treat her... .modeling it for you... .with this "selfless" love for this guy... .and relate to you and your past desires to help her.

She is leveling the playing field to her entrance into a r/s with you by proving to you that if she can do it... .if she can work hard and give it her earnest effort with this more disordered man, then surely you can too!

It is a clever manipulation... .

The whole thing may be a set up to adjust the power and roles for her to recycle.

If you recycle... .

You will have to live up to this new standard of values that you two are sharing now by you watching her "selflessly" help him.

She will not feel pathetic to return as she has just proven she is as good as you... .maybe even better as she can cope with a more disordered person than you will be coping with.

It will forever be thrown in your face... .that she lived through such and such with him... .surely you can make xyz sacrifice for her... .you already know she would sacrifice that for her man... .only she will forever remain the needy one.  You will never be one the receiving end when you are in need.

Am I explaining this so it makes sense?
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2015, 11:43:27 PM »

Sunflower,

I certainly understood what you were saying. Your analysis sounds plausible to me. That would be major manipulation on her part. The entire scenario, as you explained it, is very scary! Thank God it takes two to recycle!
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2015, 12:02:03 AM »

Sunflower,

I certainly understood what you were saying. Your analysis sounds plausible to me. That would be major manipulation on her part. The entire scenario, as you explained it, is very scary! Thank God it takes two to recycle!

And on:
Excerpt
"Thank God it takes two to recycle!"

[/b]  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Lol! You should get two steps ahead of her... .

-Be sure you are not giving her too much praise for being a "heroic caregiver." Don't let her control and monitor your view of who she is.

-instead of focusing on how wonderful she is for taking on this white knight role... .test her out by challenging her! Give her advice in setting boundaries and actually implementing some strategies that coincidentally... .would help HER anyway! 

-See what she does if you hold her accountable.  See if she can get her actions and words to match. 

Sounds to me like her true motivation is to impress you... .to get painted white in your eyes.

In her attempts to be better than you... .and therefore worthy of a recycle... .or rather entitled to a recycle... .  She may actually get manipulated into learning some useful skills by you, ... .all while she is trying to manipulate your view of the person she is.  Smiling (click to insert in post) Being cool (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2015, 08:18:10 AM »

That's quite the interesting take.  I will tell you I haven't been praising or validating her decision to stay with him.  I've regularly told her it will likely take several years for him to "get better" in therapy for his BPD.  She told me the psychiatrist he has been seeing simply put him on mood stabilizers, which won't help the core of BPD, so it seems that the therapist isn't treating him well, either.  No DBT or anything it seems.

What I am avoiding is giving her advice on what to do, as well.  I did that a lot during our relationship, like how a parent would to a child.  I'm giving her facts and real factors, and letting her stay in the boat in the middle of the lake, so to speak. 

Here's an update:

I didn't hear from her at all on Friday.  But on Saturday evening, she messaged me, saying she was drunk.  She had her first day at her new part time job, and went out with her new co-workers afterward.  Of course she loved it, and them, considering how quickly she was accepted into the fold.  She said, "I've realized I need to be around people who share the same interests as I do.  I really love being able to talk about things."  She has said more than once that my replacement and her have very little in common and she can't talk about movies and music and television shows with him.  She then added, "I just wanted to stay and hang out with them."  I then said, "Instead of where you are now?" - meaning waiting for the replacement at home, and she said, "Yes."

She then said, "I wonder why things don't work for us."  I bit my tongue.  She then asked to call me.  I agreed.  So she did.  It was the first time we had spoken to each other in three months.  We talked about normal things, no intimate talk, or talk about us.  Then abruptly, she told me she "had to go."  I guess the replacement was there.  She texted me an apology later, then added, "This sucks."  I asked "what sucks?"  and she replied "Everything."  I didn't hear from her at all yesterday (Sunday).

I suppose the alcohol played a part in it, but that was quite the significant exchange.  I'm surprised I didn't hear from her yesterday.
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2015, 05:47:30 PM »

Hey 4years5months!

I wonder... .with the way your r/s is with her now... .

Do you feel that it is currently balanced? 

While you are offering support and help to her in navigating her r/s... .are there opportunities for you to also receive support from her?

~SF
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2015, 06:58:42 PM »

Sunfl0wer,

I'm not sure if it's balanced.  Right now, it's swayed more in her favor in terms of support.  I'm not getting much from her in return, although she did ask about my life and did listen to me when we talked on the phone, so it's not 100% her, her, her.  But the good thing about it is there isn't an expectation for me on her end.  If I was her boyfriend, there would be, and it's an impossible expectation to meet.  I haven't heard from her since Saturday night when she called, which is a little peculiar.  However, she was also a bit tipsy and probably was motivated to contact me as a result of that. 

I'm not trying to contact her, mainly because I don't want to accidentally disrupt anything with the BPD boyfriend ("why is he texting you?) but also because I have no reason to contact her.  I've let it be known that I want to be friends with her.  If she wants that friendship, she knows how to get a hold of me.

But the lack of constant contact tells me she's still in "making it work" mode with the replacement and it's not a full on recycle attempt, yet. 
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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 07:41:16 PM »

Hey 4years5months,

(I wonder if you change your username each month? :P j/k)

When my ex first announced that we were done... .our MC said to me to continue to connect.

Oddly enough... .this sounds like where the two of you are at.

He explained that even tho exBF logical head was out of the r/s, that his heart was still in.  My head and heart were still in the r/s.  He explained that the heart and the mind typically will find alignment... .exBF would be compelled to be all one way or the other.  (Actually... .this never occurred as we had an odd logical issue that we could not resolve)

MC kept encouraging me to try to reconnect... .reach out... .  In doing so... .I practiced r/s skills.  (Ok... .the other reality is that it was sheer torture trying to connect with a person... .in full awareness that it was all one sided.  I was doing all the caring... .nothing was returned.). I also was observing things closely and trying to learn. The dynamic that played out for several months after his announcement of break up... .was exactly the same as when in the r/s... .just stepped down some notches.  The same push/pull occurred, same ST, avoidance attachment style of his, no increase in abilities dealing with conflict.

As painful as this time was living together, with the impending end of lease approaching was... .  I am grateful to see that our dynamic was still what it was... .unbalanced.  I can more fully appreciate and accept that this is what it would be ten years from now also... .even with me doing my best.

My point is... .

It is likely a good idea to be observing things.  Keep listening to yourself.  See if you can find some growth in this friendship for this time.  While you may be getting little from her... .see what you can discover about you for you.

That's all

~SF

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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2015, 09:31:58 AM »

If I did update it regularly, it would currently be 5Years1Month, ha.

I would compare reaching out to my ex - even sending her an unprompted message - to fighting Mike Tyson and simply walking up to him and leaning forward with my gloves behind my back.  I feel like I'm just asking for a rejection response from her if I do.  She has shown no signs of doing that, but I can remember doing it when she was with a previous replacement (how sad that I have to say that) and she pounced, saying "he almost saw your text!"  So, I'm not going to contact her.  She's the one with the BPD boyfriend who doesn't want anything to do with me.  It's up to her to reach out.

I'm guessing she had a good weekend with him, because she's not contacting me to vent.  I'm also not reciprocating and letting her think a recycle is possible.  We are strictly friends when we talk.
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2015, 03:05:04 PM »

"So, I'm not going to contact her.  She's the one with the BPD boyfriend who doesn't want anything to do with me.  It's up to her to reach out.

I'm guessing she had a good weekend with him, because she's not contacting me to vent.  I'm also not reciprocating and letting her think a recycle is possible.  We are strictly friends when we talk.
"

4Years,

This is not what I would call a "friend" situation or a "friendship." Your definitions may be different, and that's cool. I also understand that you may be slapping the "friend" label on it because of the lack of a better way to describe the situation.

My question is, what are you getting out of her being able to access you when she wants and, when contact is made, you listen to her oratory masturbation about another guy? Where are your needs and wants being met here? In these communications, where are you being allowed to share yourself openly? That to me seems like you're more of an enabler/orbiter to her more than anything, regardless of how it's sold. Enlighten me here.
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2015, 09:35:03 PM »

Apollo, overall, it's not a healthy situation.  I acknowledge that.  And I would also say if I was put on the spot that it's not a friendship with her.  I can't consider her a "friend" when there is such a large, angry elephant in the room that cannot be aware that said "friendship" exists.  I guess I would say she and I are FRIENDLY.

What am I getting out of it all?  I guess I'm getting to talk to her and have that connection that was positive when we were together.  I don't have the burden of being her boyfriend, so I do enjoy the conversation.  I don't choose my words carefully.  If I end up saying something that triggers her, I guess that's what will happen.  But she isn't flaunting her new relationship in my face.  In fact... .

It's odd - other than that very focused conversation about his BPD last week, there has been little talk of Mr. Replacement.  She messaged me today and we talked about movies.  However, her exchanges were short and only a few words.  It's her "distant" texting persona.  I should have known that at some point in the triangulation, she would dial back the intensity. 

About 20 minutes before she was due to be off of work, I attempted to wrap up the conversation and said "have a good night" since I knew Mr. Replacement would likely superglue himself to her for the evening.  She said "are we not talking anymore today?" and I said not necessarily, but I knew she was off work at 5.  She then said "It's not 5 yet" and so we continued.  Then, at 5:15, I AGAIN said good night, and she replied, "I'm actually going home to workout and shower" to which I replied, kind of pissed, "You sure do like (bleeping) with me, don't you? (Smiley face)"  She responded that she wasn't - but she was.  She isn't telling me when she can and cannot talk, despite having all of these severe consequences on her end for doing so.  It annoyed me.  Sure enough, at about 8:00, she went silent.

That leads me to a question.  Is triangulation a conscious decision?  I've read that much of what a BPDer does is subconscious, and projected.  It's not like they sit there, rubbing their hands together, saying "Muahahaha" and have some diabolical planned scheme to push us away or fight with us.  So with triangulation, is it the same thing?  Is it essentially a miniature version of the relationship?  My ex got too close to me (the phone call on Saturday) and now she seems distant?  She bounces back and forth between my replacement and I, as if she is a prize to be won?  I'm trying to make sense of her close/distant conversations.

Again, listen, I can't defend even talking to her.  You got me on that.  Not healthy, and my need to understand, the mystery of it all, draws me in as much as the enjoyment of talking to her does.  Seven breakups should make me run for the hills.  And yeah, the "black hole" is something I don't want to fall into.  But I do enjoy talking to her.  But to bring it back to the original reason for this thread, I am just dumbfounded that the guy she is now dating has severe, acting out BPD, and even MORE dumbfounded that she THINKS and WANTS to make it work with him, "right now."  But maybe that's the triangulation.
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2015, 10:17:04 PM »

4Years,

Hey man, you don't have to defend your actions to me. In my opinion, what y'all are doing is very unhealthy for both of y'all. You recognize that. She will never disengage as long as you are available, keep that in mind. So, if the relationship is to ever be fully dissolved, you will have to be the one to do it. I am not saying that you should do that. Do what is best for you. But, just keep in mind that you're the mentally healthy one.

Triangulation is not BPD specific. We all do it to a degree. There's really good information on the Karpman Triangle on this site. In general it's used by someone to place them in the Victim role to garner attention and sympathy. It can also be equally used, during the victimization, to villify the Persecutor. Simply, it's unhealthy manipulation. If I were you, I would definitely get educated on it. You need to be able to recognize the manipulation when it begins. Defeating the triangle, manipulation, is to not participate.
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2015, 05:51:50 AM »

Oh gosh... .I can see how what I said can be misunderstood.  I am not thinking that you need to try harder at all to reconnect.  I think that is your call either way... .not something I can advise in either direction from my view.

My point I was trying to get across with that example is... .

It sounds like a piece of you still feels a bit connected, as does a piece of her.  As long as you two are interacting anyway, you can use this as an opportunity that you didn't have while in the r/s.  You have enough distance between you two to practice more the observation of things.  Observe how the dynamics play out, observe what is going on.  It sounds like you are doing this already though!  Also, for me... .using the concept of "observing" helped me to focus on the dynamics/purpose/functions of the interactions vs my heart being over influenced and tuning out my logical mind... .as I'm sure happened somewhere during our initial r/s beginning.  I guess I was trying to offer you to maintain an approach that keeps your logical mind open and engaged... .to help balance out any pull from your heart side of things.

Does that make different sense?
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2015, 06:00:35 AM »

Excerpt
What am I getting out of it all?  I guess I'm getting to talk to her and have that connection that was positive when we were together.  I don't have the burden of being her boyfriend, so I do enjoy the conversation.  I don't choose my words carefully.  If I end up saying something that triggers her, I guess that's what will happen.  But she isn't flaunting her new relationship in my face.  In fact... .

It's odd - other than that very focused conversation about his BPD last week, there has been little talk of Mr. Replacement.  She messaged me today and we talked about movies.  However, her exchanges were short and only a few words.  It's her "distant" texting persona.  I should have known that at some point in the triangulation, she would dial back the intensity. 

This kind of reminds me what I was trying to say earlier.

Your answer sound more like you are chatting with her to sooth that part of your heart.  Your analysis sounds sometimes as though you are analyzing to meet the needs of the heart, to pick a part the experience to get that heart drive.

What if instead you were picking apart the experience to learn? That you can practice the skills... .and not worry about how she responds other than it is feedback for your social experiment?

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