Did your salesman lie?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Amazing how your RS or BU with BPD can catapult you into weird trains of thought!

Did you ever buy a used car?  Did the salesman point out every flaw to you? Did they bring every ding and rust spot to your attention, in hopes that you would still buy the car, but not return it because you were aware of any issues?

When you got home, and found that the exhaust system fell out on the highway, boy were you pissed right!

Sometimes that's how I feel.  I know for certain my ex knew about her issues. She leaked out just a tiny teeny bit with a comment here and there, but it wasn't enough. I didn't discover this entire SURPRISE until a year and a half later!  Had she been more upfront (if she could have) I might still be with her, learning how to live BETTER with her.  Then again, I might not have bought the car. Let it be someone elses problem.  Plenty of people buy rust buckets as "fixer uppers", and good candidates for restoration... .not that a person can be fixed or restored (nor should we try), but if you know what you are initially getting into, the storyline changes.

Anyone wanna return their car?

[DyingLove]

Amazing how your RS or BU with BPD can catapult you into weird trains of thought!

Did you ever buy a used car?  Did the salesman point out every flaw to you? Did they bring every ding and rust spot to your attention, in hopes that you would still buy the car, but not return it because you were aware of any issues?

When you got home, and found that the exhaust system fell out on the highway, boy were you pissed right!

Sometimes that's how I feel.  I know for certain my ex knew about her issues. She leaked out just a tiny teeny bit with a comment here and there, but it wasn't enough. I didn't discover this entire SURPRISE until a year and a half later!  Had she been more upfront (if she could have) I might still be with her, learning how to live BETTER with her.  Then again, I might not have bought the car. Let it be someone elses problem.  Plenty of people buy rust buckets as "fixer uppers", and good candidates for restoration... .not that a person can be fixed or restored (nor should we try), but if you know what you are initially getting into, the storyline changes.

Anyone wanna return their car?

[Mutt]

I can understand that you may feel cheated DyingLove.

On the flipside, do we also keep things that we may not be proud of or not like about ourselves during the infatuation phase?

I can say that there are things that may not be attractive about my behaviors, history or habits that I didn't share.

Is she aware that she suffers mental illness? What kinds of hints was she dropping?

[DyingLove]

I can understand that you may feel cheated DyingLove.

On the flipside, do we also keep things that we may not be proud of or not like about ourselves during the infatuation phase?

I can say that there are things that may not be attractive about my behaviors, history or habits that I didn't share.

Is she aware that she suffers mental illness? What kinds of hints was she dropping?

In the beginning Mutt, she only said that she has a habit of pushing people away from her.  After that, anything that seemed out of the ordinary, she was very righteous about.  I'm sure if she didn't give me the first statement, it might have been like What the heck on my end.  But being a "pleaser", I didn't have that issue.  I just accepted her the way she was and for who she was. Isn't that how we are supposed to do it?  Accept people how they are and not change them?  But then, we learn, and then the rules get broken.  You know this was a bad day for me. The only outlet I have is with people that understand, and that is here at bpdfamily.  Thank you for being one of them Mutt.

[zundertowz]

LOL I don't think my ex has a clue how screwed up she is but she did sell me on a person that she was not.  She portrayed herself as a free spirit that enjoyed life and didn't have a care in the world... .I bought it moved in very quickly and what I got was more drama and choas in one person then I have ever encountered.  Looking back it was obvious she was selling herself... .what I wonder is how many people she was selling herself to and was I the unlucky sucker who bought it.

[Mutt]

I just accepted her the way she was and for who she was. Isn't that how we are supposed to do it?

Did things move quickly? Did you take the time to get to know her?

From my experience I didn't take the time to get to know my ex partner and things moved quickly and I went along with it. I would like to say I blindly trusted someone I didn't really know. I took a huge step with plans of moving in with her within the first month that I met her and then starting looking a new place. She moved in 3 months later because she had things that needed taking care of and she lived out of town. I likely would have had her move in ASAP if she didn't have her responsibilities out of town with her folks, SD and school, work etc.

After she moved in her more eccentric behaviors were exhibited like disproportionate anger   and the disorder is also triggered by intimacy. For a couple of months we had a long distance relationship. A choice could have been to wait or to not pursue the relationship, I had also gotten her pregnant and I'm an adoptee. I had to make absolutely sure I was a part of my D's life and wanted her close. That being said, I could have been in my D's life regardless of having a r/s with mom. I also understand members have different experiences and their partners may display different traits.

I'm speaking for myself when I say this and at the time I made a bad call. I made choices for the wrong reasons and I have learned from those bad choices. Live and learn.

[DyingLove]

LOL I don't think my ex has a clue how screwed up she is but she did sell me on a person that she was not.  She portrayed herself as a free spirit that enjoyed life and didn't have a care in the world... .I bought it moved in very quickly and what I got was more drama and choas in one person then I have ever encountered.  Looking back it was obvious she was selling herself... .what I wonder is how many people she was selling herself to and was I the unlucky sucker who bought it.

Interesting view on that Zundertowz.  I didn't even think how they put an "ad in the paper" (figuratively speaking)

[FannyB]

My ex is in denial about what really ails her. That allows her to truly believe that 'with the right man everything would be fine'. So I saw the 'to be' version of herself - contingent on my perfection. When I screwed up, Mrs 'as is' showed up, and she wasn't nearly so attractive to me! 

[DyingLove]

I just accepted her the way she was and for who she was. Isn't that how we are supposed to do it?

Did things move quickly? Did you take the time to get to know her?

From my experience I didn't take the time to get to know my ex partner and things moved quickly and I went along with it. I would like to say I blindly trusted someone I didn't really know. I took a huge step with plans of moving in with her within the first month that I met her and then starting looking a new place. She moved in 3 months later because she had things that needed taking care of and she lived out of town. I likely would have had her move in ASAP if she didn't have her responsibilities out of town with her folks, SD and school, work etc.

After she moved in her more eccentric behaviors were exhibited like disproportionate anger   and the disorder is also triggered by intimacy. For a couple of months we had a long distance relationship. A choice could have been to wait or to not pursue the relationship, I had also gotten her pregnant and I'm an adoptee. I had to make absolutely sure I was a part of my D's life and wanted her close. That being said, I could have been in my D's life regardless of having a r/s with mom. I also understand members have different experiences and their partners may display different traits.

I'm speaking for myself when I say this and at the time I made a bad call. I made choices for the wrong reasons and I have learned from those bad choices. Live and learn.

Met her in Feb 2011, RS started Jun 2011, Met her in person Oct 2011, Moved to Fl. to be with her in Aug 2012.  We met on FB and had plenty of time to get to know one another. Text, phone, skype, EXPENSIVE visits to Florida, etc.  I made about 4/5 total trips to Florida before actually moving in with her. Each visit no less than 3 weeks.  I was head over heels and so was she.  I guess she had cards she wasn't showing!

[DyingLove]

My ex is in denial about what really ails her. That allows her to truly believe that 'with the right man everything would be fine'. So I saw the 'to be' version of herself - contingent on my perfection. When I screwed up, Mrs 'as is' showed up, and she wasn't nearly so attractive to me! 

True that Fanny!

[zundertowz]

Part of me knew it was a lemon but it sure did have a nice paint job. LOL

[Popcorn71]

I should have realised he was a 'lying salesman' right from the start.

15 years before I got together with my xBPDh, my first husband and I bought a car from him.  I remembered that he told us that his wife was ill and could no longer drive so they were selling her car.  When we were together many years later I told him about this.  He denied saying that and said he could not even remember selling us the car.  He couldn't remember because he bought and sold  cars as a side-line business.

Anyway, the fact was that he lied to me when he sold us that car and little did I know until after we split up, he lied to me throughout our marriage.

That was a red flag I should have taken notice of.

[DyingLove]

I should have realised he was a 'lying salesman' right from the start.

15 years before I got together with my xBPDh, my first husband and I bought a car from him.  I remembered that he told us that his wife was ill and could no longer drive so they were selling her car.  When we were together many years later I told him about this.  He denied saying that and said he could not even remember selling us the car.  He couldn't remember because he bought and sold  cars as a side-line business.

Anyway, the fact was that he lied to me when he sold us that car and little did I know until after we split up, he lied to me throughout our marriage.

That was a red flag I should have taken notice of.

Funny Popcorn... .it wasn't really about cars!. LOL  The fact that our ex's (salesman) lied to us!  But your story was good just the same!

[Mutt]

I guess she had cards she wasn't showing!

When and how did she start showing her cards?  

[DyingLove]

I guess she had cards she wasn't showing!

When and how did she start showing her cards?  

Well, thinking back on it now, she played the victim card when she couldn't pay her bills and was feeling down on herself. She couldn't commit to the immediate family (her, her child and me) actually 'being a family", everything needed to revolve around her family (mother sisters brother etc.) which has it's place but not constantly. The unhealthy relationship she had with her ex husband #2, allowing herself to be manipulated and controlled by this person for the sake (so she says) of her child. When the ex would get on my case, she would never ever be on my side.  the list of idiosyncrasies goes on, I'd really need to take a day to think on them and list them all.  But these were things that a normal person (I use that term loosely) wouldn't really relate to red flags at first.  Looking back now, I see where the entire plot was coming together.  The only out come was truly the BU, but it's like a tv series that goes from episode to episode.

[Mutt]

I guess she had cards she wasn't showing!

When and how did she start showing her cards?  

Well, thinking back on it now, she played the victim card when she couldn't pay her bills and was feeling down on herself. She couldn't commit to the immediate family (her, her child and me) actually 'being a family", everything needed to revolve around her family (mother sisters brother etc.) which has it's place but not constantly. The unhealthy relationship she had with her ex husband #2, allowing herself to be manipulated and controlled by this person for the sake (so she says) of her child. When the ex would get on my case, she would never ever be on my side.  the list of idiosyncrasies goes on, I'd really need to take a day to think on them and list them all.  But these were things that a normal person (I use that term loosely) wouldn't really relate to red flags at first.  Looking back now, I see where the entire plot was coming together.  The only out come was truly the BU, but it's like a tv series that goes from episode to episode.

Is it safe to say that you fell in love with her?

I think you're description of your experience in this thread is different than the one this morning, the other side of the medallion. Your other thread reflected all of the good things and this thread your working out some of the bad things.

These are experiences that you could use to draw upon. I struggled with thinking only the good things and I missed her and would forget all of the bad things in the r/s. You could try to draw upon some of these memories to balance your thoughts out.

[cosmonaut]

I think Mutt has a great point: all of us try and put our best foot forward at the start of a new relationship.  We want our new love interest to see the best side of us.  That's absolutely normal.

With BPD, this is complicated by the degree of of mirroring and idealization, and I can understand the anger about losing that.  I have been there myself.  So much.  What we need to come to terms with, however, is that this is our issue.  It's not theirs.  We are the ones that are demanding the return of our mirroring and idealization.  We are the ones who refuse to let go of that, because it is soothing something inside of us.  And we need to find out what that is.  For myself, it was a childhood growing up with an NPD mother and feeling invisible and voiceless.  Meeting my ex felt like I was completely seen and cherish for who I am, for really the first time in my life.  The degree of idealization provided me with awesome value that I was not providing myself - something I learned long ago was wrong to do.  And now losing that has been devastating for me.  This is not my ex's fault.  She didn't create that wound anymore than I created her original abandonment wound.  We were both damaged people who found one another in the world and when we did we clung to one another in the hope that each of us could soothe that agonizing wound in the other.

[DyingLove]

I guess she had cards she wasn't showing!

When and how did she start showing her cards?  

Well, thinking back on it now, she played the victim card when she couldn't pay her bills and was feeling down on herself. She couldn't commit to the immediate family (her, her child and me) actually 'being a family", everything needed to revolve around her family (mother sisters brother etc.) which has it's place but not constantly. The unhealthy relationship she had with her ex husband #2, allowing herself to be manipulated and controlled by this person for the sake (so she says) of her child. When the ex would get on my case, she would never ever be on my side.  the list of idiosyncrasies goes on, I'd really need to take a day to think on them and list them all.  But these were things that a normal person (I use that term loosely) wouldn't really relate to red flags at first.  Looking back now, I see where the entire plot was coming together.  The only out come was truly the BU, but it's like a tv series that goes from episode to episode.

Is it safe to say that you fell in love with her?

I think you're description of your experience in this thread is different than the one this morning, the other side of the medallion. Your other thread reflected all of the good things and this thread your working out some of the bad things.

These are experiences and behaviors that you could draw upon to help balance your thoughts when you have difficult mornings or moments throughout the day.

Falling in love with her is an understatement Mutt.  Yes, very deeply.  She has a way about her, she can suck you right into her life and she didn't even have to try.  BUT not only that, when I discovered we were going to be together forever (right), any inhibitions or doubts were totally removed (I really didn't have any) and it was like putting penetrating oil on a hinge pin.  So it all came together, and I wanted what was happening.  That's why I'm so connected... .or unable to detach.  I really did lose a loved one, someone I still love, and there is no rhyme or reason in my mind.  The only thing that exists is her reasoning... .and it just doesn't make any sense.  Right now I STILL CANNOT BELIEVE I am still here talking about this.  Like a dream I cannot wake from... .or WORSE!

Remember we talked about counteracting the LOVE with visions of being devalued?  Well, I can honestly say that is what I'm trying to do. On the other hand. I feel like I'm in the center of a circle and in everydirection there is a force, a force that is pulling me in it's direction. So I'm constantly being torn in so many imagineable directions because I'm torn between all these feeling. One feeling, the biggest says that I love her, other feelings include the pain of staying attached, the pain of what happened with the child, the pain of losing 4 years of my life, the pain of feeling suckered, the pain of being immortalized and then burnt to the stake.  Does this make sense to you?  If this is the bargaining stage, then I guess I have to get used to it and the new pain that it brings with it.

[Mutt]

With BPD, this is complicated by the degree of of mirroring and idealization, and I can understand the anger about losing that.  I have been there myself.  So much.  What we need to come to terms with, however, is that this is our issue.  It's not theirs.  We are the ones that are demanding the return of our mirroring and idealization.  We are the ones who refuse to let go of that, because it is soothing something inside of us.  And we need to find out what that is.  For myself, it was a childhood growing up with an NPD mother and feeling invisible and voiceless.  Meeting my ex felt like I was completely seen and cherish for who I am, for really the first time in my life.  The degree of idealization provided me with awesome value that I was not providing myself - something I learned long ago was wrong to do.  And now losing that has been devastating for me.  This is not my ex's fault.  She didn't create that wound anymore than I created her original abandonment wound.  We were both damaged people who found one another in the world and when we did we clung to one another in the hope that each of us could soothe that agonizing wound in the other.

cosmonaut makes a really good point. The refusal of letting go and if you dig a little deeper ( you go into PI - Personal Inventory ) and you may find a reason why you find yourself compelled with a person with borderline personality disorder. It's not to say all of our members have a reason because of FOO, some caregivers were present and it could be because of life events like a divorce.

For me it was the idealization that I wanted because I lacked attention from my father when I was a child, my father is narcissistic and I was also an invisible and voiceless child. The idealization phase was the attention that I so wanted, I didn't understand what validation was from a caregiver and that this is something that I need to do for myself  is to validate.

I feel like I'm in the center of a circle and in everydirection there is a force, a force that is pulling me in it's direction.

If you feel like your mind is pulling you in many directions and all at once, have you checked our article on Mindfulness. It's an incredible tool that I learn to help with anxiety.

TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

So it all came together, and I wanted what was happening.  That's why I'm so connected... .or unable to detach.

I think that our members can let go and detach DyingLove regardless of how you think you are too intertwined. It can be incredibly hard being the rejectee and there are ways we can speed up our process for healing.

Why do you think you're too connected?

[DyingLove]

With BPD, this is complicated by the degree of of mirroring and idealization, and I can understand the anger about losing that.  I have been there myself.  So much.  What we need to come to terms with, however, is that this is our issue.  It's not theirs.  We are the ones that are demanding the return of our mirroring and idealization.  We are the ones who refuse to let go of that, because it is soothing something inside of us.  And we need to find out what that is.  For myself, it was a childhood growing up with an NPD mother and feeling invisible and voiceless.  Meeting my ex felt like I was completely seen and cherish for who I am, for really the first time in my life.  The degree of idealization provided me with awesome value that I was not providing myself - something I learned long ago was wrong to do.  And now losing that has been devastating for me.  This is not my ex's fault.  She didn't create that wound anymore than I created her original abandonment wound.  We were both damaged people who found one another in the world and when we did we clung to one another in the hope that each of us could soothe that agonizing wound in the other.

cosmonaut makes a really good point. The refusal of letting go and if you dig a little deeper ( you go into PI - Personal Inventory ) and you may find a reason why you find yourself compelled with her a person with borderline personality disorder.

For me it was the idealization that I wanted because I lacked attention from my father when I was a child, my father is narcissistic and I was also an invisible and voiceless child. The idealization phase was the attention that I so wanted, I didn't understand what validation was from a caregiver and that this is something that I need to do for myself  is to validate.

I feel like I'm in the center of a circle and in everydirection there is a force, a force that is pulling me in it's direction.

If you feel like your mind is pulling you in many directions and all at once, have you checked our article on Mindfulness. It's an incredible tool that I learn to help with anxiety.

TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

Yes I think that our members can let go and detach DyingLove.

Thank you Mutt.  I'm reading it, and I might have read it in the past.  Did you ever start reading or looking at something and then several minutes later, nothing more is making sense?  That happens to me on occasion. Maybe my mind is too wound up, I just don't know.  This is a smart guy here, creative, loving, but yet turned to jello.  I know I beat myself up, I know this.  It's what I do best when there is no way out.  I also know that all of this is MY ISSUE, it's in my mind.  When I go to sleep, it doesn't search for another host, it just waits for me to wake.  It's mine and I need to release it.  Believe me, if I could afford to, I'd be going to therapy 3 times a day!  I have the forums here and probably people that are more qualified to understand and sympathize/empathize with me.  You have pulled me out of the tarpits on more than one occasion for sure.

I really thought I was doing very good at one point, maybe a month ago or so.  Then all of a sudden things changed. I wasn't bad every day, but maybe ever second day and then every third day. Then I started getting tired beyond belief. Maybe the weather, I don't know.  Now, I'm really feeling better than I have in a long time (not great but better), but all of a sudden the rollercoaster comes for me.  I get forced to take that ride.  I'm scared but I do it.  I get thru it more often than not, and when I can't make it, I run here to find someone to hold my hand or distract myself writing to others.  Really tired and hungry now. I don't eat big elaborate meals like I used to, I wonder if that is affecting me too.  I don't get hungry the same way and I don't have food at hand all the time either... .so there is another change.

[Mutt]

Did you ever start reading or looking at something and then several minutes later, nothing more is making sense?  That happens to me on occasion. Maybe my mind is too wound up, I just don't know.  This is a smart guy here, creative, loving, but yet turned to jello.  

I had periods in grieving where I was dissociating and I couldn't recall what I had just read, or did. I had difficulties with my performance at work because I was dissociating. When your mind is over-stressed it sometimes dissociates to alleviate some of that stress. I was concerned and went to my MD and he referred me to a P. Is that what you mean? You have moments when things sort of become a blur. I had gone through a traumatic experience and my life was turned from top to bottom.  

[DyingLove]

Did you ever start reading or looking at something and then several minutes later, nothing more is making sense?  That happens to me on occasion. Maybe my mind is too wound up, I just don't know.  This is a smart guy here, creative, loving, but yet turned to jello.  

I had periods in grieving where I was dissociating and I couldn't recall what I had just read, or did. I had difficulties with my performance at work because I was dissociating. When your mind is over-stressed it sometimes dissociates to alleviate some of that stress. I was concerned and went to my MD and he referred me to a P. Is that what you mean? You have moments when things sort of become a blur. I had gone through a traumatic experience and my life was turned from top to bottom.  

Kinda sounds like it Mutt.  When I was still under the roof of the ex, after the breakup but before actually leaving,, I was experiencing a similar type of stress. Other things like anxiety and fear went along with it.  I guess I'm still stressing, for other or different reasons. Stress is stress, I know this, I went through an anxiety phase back in the 90's or so.  I learned and I conquered.  But I don't think there is any preparation for the aftermath of a BPD BU.

Once again, it's kinda the "weekend" "holiday" type of syndrome. Alone with myself, and not destined to go out for reasons.  Right now its storming here.  Went from overcast to sunny to storming.  But I wasn't planning on going out, so who am I kidding.

Kinda feeling a bit better now.  It's like an episode, or a phase.  Am I not grieving right? or not grieving enough?  Why these spurts?  Maybe this mornings post caused me to trigger myself.

Let me tell you... .thank you for babysitting me.  I know everyone has got their own stuff to do, and this doesn't go unappreciated.  Just wanted you to know this.  Thank you Mutt (and everyone)

[DyingLove]

I think Mutt has a great point: all of us try and put our best foot forward at the start of a new relationship.  We want our new love interest to see the best side of us.  That's absolutely normal.

With BPD, this is complicated by the degree of of mirroring and idealization, and I can understand the anger about losing that.  I have been there myself.  So much.  What we need to come to terms with, however, is that this is our issue.  It's not theirs.  We are the ones that are demanding the return of our mirroring and idealization.  We are the ones who refuse to let go of that, because it is soothing something inside of us.  And we need to find out what that is.  For myself, it was a childhood growing up with an NPD mother and feeling invisible and voiceless.  Meeting my ex felt like I was completely seen and cherish for who I am, for really the first time in my life.  The degree of idealization provided me with awesome value that I was not providing myself - something I learned long ago was wrong to do.  And now losing that has been devastating for me.  This is not my ex's fault.  She didn't create that wound anymore than I created her original abandonment wound.  We were both damaged people who found one another in the world and when we did we clung to one another in the hope that each of us could soothe that agonizing wound in the other.

Thank you cosmonaut. VERY good words and observation. Yes, the anger of losing.  Just those last four words get me to tears.  I think the loss across the board is everything that has got me distraught.

[Mutt]

Kinda sounds like it Mutt.  When I was still under the roof of the ex, after the breakup but before actually leaving,, I was experiencing a similar type of stress. Other things like anxiety and fear went along with it.  I guess I'm still stressing, for other or different reasons. Stress is stress, I know this, I went through an anxiety phase back in the 90's or so.  I learned and I conquered.  But I don't think there is any preparation for the aftermath of a BPD BU.

You're welcome and I choose to pay it forward because I needed the help from the members and staff from these boards. The boards are here for you to use 24/7 and we're all here to help.

I agree with you that a break-up with a pwBPD is an experience like no other and I know how incredibly painful this stuff is. I can understand that you are feeling a lot of stress.

I'm happy that you learned and conquered your anxiety phase, I went through a similar phase in the 90's with anxiety / panic attacks and understand how frightful and scary that can be.