Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 09:39:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Parents! Get help here!
Saying "I need help" is a huge first step. Here is what to do next.
112
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I insisted he not try to contact me on Sundays  (Read 1460 times)
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« on: June 06, 2015, 06:09:40 PM »

I want to start a new thread about boundaries. Thanks for all the support.

I am past the worry stage. Sometimes I pray that he dies. When I try to cut him loose he gets suicidal so I am working on reasonable boundaries. A few weeks ago I insisted he not try to contact me on Sundays. Aft first he raged but eventually he said, "have a good day off mom." He is beyond willful. If I tell him my life depends on getting some space he would just tell me I am selfish. He loves to play the guilt card because I neglected him as a child. But I only have about 10 to 15 years left and I want my freedom. I just wish he did not have a criminal record. It makes it so hard to find a job. I am going to use this board to mark my progress in boundaries. I have to get past being afraid of him when I pull back to take care of myself. Tomorrow I will not answer the phone or check my email. If he shows up I will ask him to leave. If he asks for money I will say no, "This is my day off." I can do it. It he gets violent I will call the police. One day at a time.
Logged
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7757


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2015, 06:49:53 PM »

Hello Butterfly Girl,

Welcome to the Parent's Board, we are glad to have you here.

It seems that you have reached your limit with your son.  I'm sorry it has gotten this bad for you. 

Our kids and adult kids are very needy and some behave with such an extreme sense of entitlement that the burden wears us down to a nub.  Is that how you feel?

It sounds like he has accepted the boundary of no contact on Sundays.  It's hard for them to accept new limits and boundaries... .we must stick to them though and that is hard on us. 

What other boundaries or limits do you think will help give you some breathing room and begin to feel some much needed relief? 

We have some info on boundaries and limits, have you seen it before?  If not here's the link.

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/06.htm

I look forward to learning more about you and your son and helping where I can.

lbj

Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
twojaybirds
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 622



« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2015, 11:19:20 PM »

Nice idea to take a day off.   I think that is a wise boundary.

I usually reply to 1 our 5 texts from my DD and in our situation the more boundaries I put up the stronger and healthier our relationship has become.

It didn't happen all at once, in fact she squawed a lot when I ignored her until she stopped squaking when I kept my boundary firm.  I don't answer her calls if I don't feel like talking and no more does she complain about that.  In fact, over time now her boundaries with me have gotten healthier because I don't respond to drama.

So be strong in caring for yourself first however that looks for you.
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 11:45:55 AM »

For the last few weeks my son respected my day off. This is great progress.

On Monday he asked for money for groceries and gas.

You might wonder why I support him. He does work when he can. Since he was 14 he has had a rare skin disorder. Cysts break out all over his body. Thirty at a time. It took ten years to get a diagnosis. When the cysts get infected he lances them or goes in the hospital for surgery. Until Obama Care we had no one to help.

Borderlines are often cutters. My son was in the emergency room once for an infected cyst which was painful, and he got tired of waiting for surgery. He pulled a knife out of his pocket and cut out the sac of the cyst. He performed surgery on himself and left a hole the size of  golf ball. They could not stop the bleeding. Like some Borderlines he was stoic through the whole thing.

Anyway, his last job was as a school teacher and they asked him to leave because the students said he was unsightly. He has lost other jobs because of his anger. Now he works at home as a paralegal and will soon start selling real-estate.

So now I am setting boundaries around money. I only give him enough for food and gas. He wants more but I am starting to say no. His issues of entitlement are off the chart because when he was growing up his best friends were rich and their parents spoiled him. So now he expects the same to me. So I am saying no a lot and if he gets angry I cut off communication until he calms down. He was in therapy years ago, but all he did was argue with his therapists.

So Sunday was a great day off, and I said no on Monday. So I am happy. I am also sending him articles about the power of positive thinking because he has a persecution complex for being black. His negativity is holding him back.

Thanks to those who replied to my post.
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 03:42:26 PM »

My son woke me up this morning to ask me to read his email. He got angry when I said, "I won't have any money to help with your medication until this afternoon." He started raging, "How do you know what I want. This is an emergency. I am bleeding." I said he needed to wait because I could not pull money out of thin air. Now the truth is that the money was there but I am trying to teach him patience. He is a recovering addict and the addictive personality is one that the need for "instantaneous gratification" takes over. Behavior modification is what his first therapist suggested when he was six. I still have to go through hell to combat his impatience. Yes is was bleeding. But he is very ill and he is always bleeding. I always give enough gas to get to the emergency room.

Am I being to harsh to make him wait? It felt so good to stand up to him.



. . . to be continued

Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 01:37:43 PM »

My son is not respecting my boundaries and it just has pushed me to my wit's end. I felt like I was making progress but he just called and asked for gas money because he was stuck on the freeway and I caved. It makes me hate myself. Why can I help others but not myself. Does anyone else have to deal with intense emotions and fantasies about never having children.
Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2015, 05:36:40 PM »

Oh, Butterflygirl... .There have been many times in my life as a Mom (especially of a BPD son) that I have fantasized about what my life would be like had I been childless 

I also do help my son with BPD financially. Was your son actually stuck on the freeway with an empty tank or something? How did you get the money to him (just curious)? I can see why you feel like you are being taken advantage of when you help him out with money, since you feel mistreated by him most of the time--like he doesn't "deserve" your help because of his bad behavior.

My own son (his story is here, if you are interested: My Son's Recovery-In-Progress) is 38 years old, and was diagnosed with BPD in April of 2013 at a Dual Diagnosis Center where he was an In-Patient for 21 days after a multi-year Heroin addiction and a serious Suicidal Ideation. Luckily for me, all of the horrible behaviors that I had dealt with for so long with him were dissipated with his diagnosis and treatments... .He is a joy to live with now, though still living at home and unemployed at this time (he's working feverishly on a Graphic Novel and the animation of it).

My Husband and I do support him right now, as he helps us around the house and yard, and we can see the progress he's making on his artwork. My son has been clean and sober from everything for the last almost 28 months, and is now awaiting approvals from his Medicaid-based Health Insurance for the Hepatitis C treatments that he needs to get cured from the damage he caused himself with his Heroin usage. He is humbled by his notorious past, sorry for it, and wanting continually to make up for the trauma he had caused his family. Under these circumstances, it wouldn't feel "right" or compassionate for us to kick him out of the house and cut him off from financial help.

If your son were to get help for his troubles, and be remorseful and willing to change, that would change your attitude, I'm sure... .Have you tried using the TOOLS and THE LESSONS in order to make things smoother between the two of you? I know that once I learned how to use Validation and S.E.T., it really changed my relationship with him for the better (this was when he first got home from the Dual Diagnosis Center and things started going south within a couple of days!).

Another helpful thing was reading (and participating in) this Workshop: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? I can't recommend it enough; it really changed the way I understood the communication techniques on this site. I believe that your own son is not open to Therapy at this time? I could have that wrong, but I do have other family members who would resist a diagnosis of BPD or NPD (and they really have those traits!), and my relationship with them have improved vastly just with me changing the way I communicate and interact with them... .

Logged

Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 10:45:06 AM »

Thank you for your support and advice. It brings me to tears that there are other people helping their grown children because I feel so guilty when I go to my support groups for being such a failure. I remember 30 years ago reading "Why Do I Feel Guilty When I Say No," and so I know it is a problem with me. I read once that one of the many definitions of codependency is the inability to allow others to be disappointed. It is like the Empath on Star Trek when the alien takes on the wounds of others.

My son did need gas to get home, but he should not have left home if he did not have the gas. God knows I pay enough for cable so he can watch tv. It was just that I have asked him to leave me alone every other day and so the phone ringing and hearing his voice triggered me.

My son and I have good days and bad days. I have asked him to find a dead-end job for a few months to relieve the pressure. If I had the money to spare I would not be so resentful, but I don't. He has an MBA but can't get a job in his field because of his arrest record. So in the past he has been a security guard and janitor.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your situation with me. It really lifts my spirits. Namaste.  Have a blessed day.

Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2015, 07:10:30 PM »

How far away does your son live from you? How often do you see him? Is he respecting the "every other day" contact (when he can   )? Do you sense him trying at all to respect your wishes? Is it that he wants to respect your wishes when not dysregulated, but then steps over the boundaries when he's in trouble or needs money or is dysregulated?

I found with my own son--prior to Dx and Treatment, which is ongoing actually--that he would promise us everything, and was sincere and hopeful he could follow through, at those times that he was regulated and thinking clearly. But, as soon as some sort of monkey wrench got thrown into his life (and it didn't take a big monkey wrench!), his promises would all go out the window and boundaries were breached left and right and all over the place! He really just didn't have it in him follow through with his good intentions at those times.

I only realized that facet of his disorder after he was in recovery for it. Had I known it at the time, I think I would have rolled with the punches (they weren't literal punches, though   ) better, with less anger and frustration at him. I would have understood that I really shouldn't be taking his breaches personally; that they didn't have anything to do with me or my parenting style.  It was his disorder doing this stuff; I had nothing to be ashamed about.

Once he started DBT and especially Neurofeedback Therapy (he'd had an Out-Patient Therapist and Psychiatrist even before the Dual Diagnosis Center stay, and continues all of those Therapies to this day), he really got a good handle on his disorders (he's also been Dxed with ADD, Social Anxiety, Depression). And what I've learned on this site (by reading all of the links I mentioned in my last post) helped me help him with his recovery. And helped me learn how to not internalize all of his troubles and behaviors, and to be able to detach with love enough to be healthy myself--helping him to become healthier also.

This stuff takes time, but I do encourage you to read every link to the right-hand side of this page, and the Workshop I linked to above... .It really helped me to learn how to take care of my own wellbeing, with the benefit of my new approach making my family life much more amiable, loving and calm  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Logged

Kwamina
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 3535



« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 04:49:41 AM »

Hi Butterflygirl

You've already gotten some very good advice in this thread. I still wanted to respond to something you said:

It brings me to tears that there are other people helping their grown children because I feel so guilty when I go to my support groups for being such a failure.

BPD is a difficult disorder. Unfortunately none of us are born with the knowledge and skills required to deal with BPD. This is something we all have got to learn as we go a long. Often we learn through a process of trial and error. We can also learn from each other. I am glad you are reaching out for support here and I too encourage you to take a look at the tools and lessons to the right of this message board.

As difficult as it can be to accept, we all make mistakes. We are human beings and none of us are perfect. We all have the right to make mistakes. Making a mistake does not make you a mistake. Making a mistake does not make you a failure. It just makes you human like the rest of us. We are all imperfect beings here, doing the best we can with what we have and what we know on this difficult journey we are all on. Once we know better, we can attempt to do better.

Take care
Logged

Oh, give me liberty! For even were paradise my prison, still I should long to leap the crystal walls.
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 03:14:28 PM »

Excerpt
As difficult as it can be to accept, we all make mistakes

Thank you for your support. I have read and internalized all the tools on this board. I have researching BPD since I got my son's diagnosis. In the beginning they called it an attachment disorder. I saw a show on tv [Oprah] when she interviewed the author of "I Hate You Don't Leave Me" and  ran down the bookstore in the middle of a work day to buy a copy. Excellent book. My major work now involves application.

What I want to ask you is whether your post is stating that I have made a mistake supporting my son, or were you just generalizing. I look forward to hearing from you and thanks again for you advice. Anyone else who want to comment it very welcome. I may need a little tough love here. Thanks.
Logged
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 03:24:35 PM »

How far away does your son live from you? How often do you see him? Is he respecting the "every other day" contact (when he can   )? Do you sense him trying at all to respect your wishes? Is it that he wants to respect your wishes when not dysregulated, but then steps over the boundaries when he's in trouble or needs money or is dysregulated?

My son lives about fifteen miles from me. He lives alone. I only see him about once a month when he comes to pick up the rent check. I have asked him not to come over because it always ends in a fight, but he says this hurts his feelings. Like most Borderlines, when his feelings are hurt he gets angry and yells and screams at me which includes profanity.

He tries to call me everyday but for years I have tried to get him to give me some space. I did a not of research about how important it is for sons to move on from their mother and how damaging unhealthy enmeshment is. They now call is emotional incest. But he must be addicted because nothing gets him to move on with his life without me.

You are right that on good days he tries to stay away and agrees that our relationship is unhealthy, but he has no friends and he says I am the only one who understands is so when he is sick or lonely he calls. I have talked to him. Begged him. Bribed him. Hung up on him. Cried for space. He is probably the most willful and needy person I have ever met. And his first therapist said it was my fault. Something about him splitting when I left him alone to much. [I have an article is anyone wants it.] I told the therapist I was a single parent with two children on welfare and did the best I could. I try to stand up for myself around the professionals.

Thanks for asking. I hope you are having a good day. You have my support.
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 03:29:31 PM »

And helped me learn how to not internalize all of his troubles and behaviors, and to be able to detach with love enough to be healthy myself--helping him to become healthier also.

I am going to put this in my purse and read it every day. Maybe I should memorize it like they taught me to do in the fifth grade. Thank you for this reminder. Now I need to stay more focused on this simple solution. Application is where I need the most work. Thank you!
Logged
Kwamina
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 3535



« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2015, 05:56:24 AM »

Hi again Butterflygirl

What I want to ask you is whether your post is stating that I have made a mistake supporting my son, or were you just generalizing. I look forward to hearing from you and thanks again for you advice.

I was just generalizing!  Trying to separate the making of mistakes from being a mistake/failure.

BPD is a challenging disorder and it asks a lot of someone to deal with BPD loved ones. I think it's only logical and natural for parents to want to support their children no matter how difficult the circumstances. My situation is somewhat different since I have a uBPD mother and sister, but still I've made the conscious choice to support my uBPD mother. Not out of fear, obligation or guilt anymore but because I have made the choice to do so fully knowing the reality of BPD. The difference in my current approach compared to before is that I now know about BPD and all the tools and communication techniques described on this site. Looking back I could say that I made a lot of mistakes in the past, but the reality is that we aren't born with the skills and knowledge required to deal with BPD. But once we've learned new things and acquired new skills, we can then incorporate them into the way we support our BPD loved ones.
Logged

Oh, give me liberty! For even were paradise my prison, still I should long to leap the crystal walls.
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2015, 12:46:10 PM »

Every time I complain I have to cancel out that negative karma with gratitude. A couple of days ago I thought I had been rejected, which is my deepest wound, and instead I got accepted. [Long story] For years, I isolated because I am a bit of a misfit, so this has brought me great joy. Also some healing. So I am going to spend the day writing some affirmations about my years in recovery [32] and get back to a positive note. That is not to say I did not need to vent on this board as I did. There is a time and a place for that. But today I just feel so optimistic and wanted to share that. Optimism and acceptance are the two most important things I have ever learned. Namaste. 
Logged
Kwamina
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 3535



« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2015, 12:56:35 PM »

A couple of days ago I thought I had been rejected, which is my deepest wound, and instead I got accepted.

... .

But today I just feel so optimistic and wanted to share that. Optimism and acceptance are the two most important things I have ever learned. Namaste.  

Thanks for sharing this Butterflygirl! Smiling (click to insert in post) Welcome to the family
Logged

Oh, give me liberty! For even were paradise my prison, still I should long to leap the crystal walls.
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2015, 05:25:47 PM »

I'm so glad that you are feeling more optimistic about things, Butterflygirl    I know that when I'm feeling negative or depressed, it never helps the situation with my family members (BPD or not!), and a cheerful, upbeat attitude really can bring others around when they are sad or angry, themselves.

There's some information at the BPD FAMILY Connections link to the right-hand side of this page (where the bumblebee is flying around   ) that I like to remember as much as I can, as often as I can, and the "rules" for engagement with our loved ones have become my mantra when things get rough for me:



General Approach: The focus here is on problem solving and we follow the basic principles of the Family Connections program developed by the National Education Alliance for Borderline Personality Disorder (NEABPD).  We encourage families to make basic changes in how they relate to create an environment for real progress.

For example, it is recommended that:

•family members need to interpret things in the most benign way possible;

•there is no one or any absolute truth;

•everyone in the family is doing the best they can in this moment;

•everyone needs to try harder.


Sometimes (during a situation with either my BPD son, my Husband who has BPD traits, my BPD Mother-In-Law or my Daughter-In-Law with BPD traits), the reciting in my head--over and over again!--of those rules pointed out above is the only thing that keeps me sane. And the only thing that helps me navigate the rocky waters in the best way possible. And in the end, things turn out OK with my relationship with my loved ones because my good-hearted attitude helped them regulate and be easier to deal with. Win/win for everyone  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thanks for giving us more information about the details of your situation; I think it's very helpful that your son lives somewhere else and you don't need to interact with him every day if you aren't up to it... .My own son lives at home (he's not the son who is married; my other son isn't BPD and has a wife with those tendencies), so I do need to interact with him every single day. But, he was diagnosed and began treatment for BPD 2 years ago, and at this point he's in recovery from it (my/his story is here: My Son's Recovery-In-Progress. Things are really going very well, and he's still in all of his Therapies and understands his problems and wants very much to overcome them.

I'm glad that you are feeling more centered, Butterflygirl, and I hope all the reading around this site can help you in your quest to make things better in your life with your son... .I certainly do know how tangled up we can get with our child's troubles (God knows, I've been there! The link I gave you will tell you just how hard things used to be, and how we overcame the turbulence... .), and letting of that entanglement was the single most important thing I learned to do  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Logged

Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2015, 12:54:19 PM »

I just watched the video. It was great. My son has the same triggers I do. A therapist once old me it was called a narcissist wound. It is the perception of being ignored, invisible, rejected or abandonment. Instead of crying about this perception my son gets angry to protect is wounded inner child. Susan Anderson told me this was his "outer child." I have a lot of insight and am now working on application---to remain calm when he feelings unloved. He has what they used to call a hair trigger. Any perception, even though it is unfounded, leads to a torrent of profanity followed up with "you don't love me. you are selfish, etc. etc." I know you guys understand. When I remain calm it goes well. When I get triggered in return we get nowhere.

When I get some money I am going to order the book, "Walking on Eggshells," meanwhile I am using what I learned in AA years ago, "Humbly ask Him to remove your shortcomings.”  Right now, I have two reactions to my son. I get angry and I get codependent. I never know which is going to come out. I am praying just to have the patience to act as a adult and follow the example of those on the board.

Thanks Rapt Reader for validating my decision to be optimistic. I am also considering going back to AA and to a therapist. My son is getting sicker and sicker and all this fighting has to stop. Since it takes two to fight, all I have to do is stop. Take care everyone.
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2015, 04:52:13 PM »

I am addicted to guilt.

My son has been sick so he has not called in days. I pray for him but I feel great to have some space. Yesterday I was feeling guilty about this but I know that is just my addiction. I need a break. I deserve a break whatever the circumstances.

I hope you out there are doing well. I love to help others. I was taught this in AA where I was instructed to "get out of my own head," by focusing on someone who is worse off than I was." Unfortunately, this is also one of the many definitions of codependency. So after years of service in AA I tried Co-DA. Now, I try to "love" but not "too much." Moderation in all things.
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2015, 01:24:24 PM »

Another storm. I sent my son some money for food and asked him to budget it and only spend one third at a time in case there was an emergency. So he went to the store and spent the whole amount and is now broke. He gets a flat tire and calls for money. I was tempted to go into the savings, but I asked him nicely why all the money was gone and why he ignored my instructions. So he goes into a tirade and calls me controlling and . . .[insert profanity and tons of disrespect].

So I listened until he hung up. Then I wrote him an email going over the whole thing. In the past this would begin an exchange of emails full of a lecture on my part and a tirade on his. This time I am not going to get into an exchange.

I understand that a grown man doesn't want to do what his mother says. But my son has a touch of OCD and he is overwhelmed with the need to spend every dime he has in his pocket, like most of his friends. If he refuses to learn how to budget money and set something aside for emergencies, he will never survive on his own. When he gets well and gets his own income he still needs to learn this.

Is it okay to still be trying to advise him? Is he too old for that? Is it a waste of time. Yes I know he would learn more quickly if I cut him off. I understand that.

Please tell me if I am being codependent or wrong or what. I no longer trust myself on the right thing to do. I need feedback. Thank you.
Logged
thefixermom
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 168


« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2015, 05:44:17 PM »

Butterflygirl, I think it'd be best to not advise him after the fact.  The money you gave him already advised him.  It said to him, "If you hadn't spent all of me, some of me would still be here to fix your tire."

I think giving him instruction at the beginning, whilst handing him the money, was good.  After that, I'd simply say, "That's got to be frustrating to have spent all your money." ... .and no more.

I learned something living with an alcoholic many moons ago.  I was taught to stop telling them what to do, stop nagging/complaining, lecturing, repeating, and so on, no matter how justified because those actions are a form of enmeshment to the alcoholic who then sees you as the blame, i.e. "I drink because of you!"   I found through pleasant detachment that the alcoholic I was involved with, fell flat on his face as usual, but this time without me there to rescue and plead with him and as a result, he finally saw himself as the problem.  That is a very condensed version of what happened, but you get the jist of it.

I've had those email exchanges with my DD, too.  I kept them so I can reread them upon rare occasion, to remind myself where we've been, what I've said, how she reacted, etc.  It helps me keep my perspective during times when I'm feeling guilty or that I haven't done enough.  I don't do them anymore because they did trigger her to shut down and she also could never read what I was saying.  She turned my words into things they did not mean.  

I am not saying you should cut your son off.  I like that you give him instructions with the support.  At first I thought maybe you should dole out smaller amounts but then I read where you are trying to teach him to budget and the consequences of him not budgeting will teach him more than your words.  I'm proud of you for not dipping into your savings, despite his unappreciative verbal tirade.  
Logged
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
madmom
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married over 30 years
Posts: 182



« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2015, 07:48:41 PM »

 Way to stick to your boundaries and not go into your savings---sometimes you have to be willing to let your pwBPD fall in order for them to have the opportunity to fly.  My daughter also had/has a real problem with money and it wasn't until we stopped bailing her out when she had messed up that she finally decided we were serious and she needed to make changes or live with the consequences.  I am happy to report she is doing really well now.
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2015, 02:35:36 PM »

Excerpt
She turned my words into things they did not mean



Thank you for all the support and great advice.

My son trained to be a litigator and having an argument with him is like going up a expert lawyer. But I have a voice too. I need to remember that being right gains me nothing, that action speaks louder than words. Thank you all for the reminder. Question: If I was told this 43 years ago, why is it taking me so long to apply it to the situation. Am I now addicted the current situation and sabotaging myself? Why does one get caught up in a loop of failure when the solution is right there in front of me. Action not words. Or at least both not just words/lecture. I am going to think about this. Opinions are welcome.

 
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2015, 12:41:21 PM »

I want to clarify something. I am codependent with my son. I understand codependency and made a lot of progress since I was first diagnosed in 1982. So I am not really in denial, I am just stuck when it comes to application. So I came here not only to learn and grow, but to find someone else who is stuck when it comes to financially supporting our grown children. Since I have been on this board I have gained more courage to enforce boundaries, but my decision to support my son still stands no matter how bad it looks for me. Some boards insist that one be in complete recovery to post. If that is true here let me know. I have made progress and I think it has a lot to do with feeling accountable to those of you who are a few steps ahead. Best wishes to all.
Logged
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7757


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2015, 01:16:44 PM »

Since I have been on this board I have gained more courage to enforce boundaries, but my decision to support my son still stands no matter how bad it looks for me.

Supporting and not enabling is the goal for us parents of adult children.  This often times means financial support and nearly always means emotional support. Our kids have different levels of functionality and we stand in the gap for them financially when necessary.  They also have different levels of emotional functionality that waxes and wanes as life dictates.

Personally, I don't have to justify to anyone what choices I make to support my daughter.  Most wouldn't understand because they don't understand the disorder or the limitations it places on sufferers.  I know if I am enabling vs supporting.  This is when I make a correction with an apology: "I realize I am doing for you what you are capable of doing for yourself.  I apologize for overstepping and not acknowledging that you are capable of taking care of this yourself."

I realize that when I am enabling it is out of fear... .what will she do if I say no... .what might happen if I say no.  Fear based decision are rarely healthy ones long term.  I also acknowledge that enabling decisions are made to relieve my own feelings/fears/disappointments.  I must be willing to live with unpleasant feelings while my child learns too as well.

lbj

Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2015, 01:51:49 PM »

Excerpt
I realize I am doing for you what you are capable of doing for yourself

I first heard this back in 1984. It is great to hear it is still around as a guiding principal. Did it come from Robin Norwood's book, "Women Who Love Too Much"?

Thank you for your wise words and support. I will take them to heart.

Years ago I was talking to a man who was writing about the AA experience. I asked him if there was anything that all the people he interviewed had in common. He said, "Yes, they all remember the moment they found out they were not alone. . ." Amen; it changes your life.  
Logged
Kate4queen
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 403



« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2015, 06:32:11 PM »

Another storm. I sent my son some money for food and asked him to budget it and only spend one third at a time in case there was an emergency. So he went to the store and spent the whole amount and is now broke. He gets a flat tire and calls for money. I was tempted to go into the savings, but I asked him nicely why all the money was gone and why he ignored my instructions. So he goes into a tirade and calls me controlling and . . .[insert profanity and tons of disrespect].

So I listened until he hung up. Then I wrote him an email going over the whole thing. In the past this would begin an exchange of emails full of a lecture on my part and a tirade on his. This time I am not going to get into an exchange.

I understand that a grown man doesn't want to do what his mother says. But my son has a touch of OCD and he is overwhelmed with the need to spend every dime he has in his pocket, like most of his friends. If he refuses to learn how to budget money and set something aside for emergencies, he will never survive on his own. When he gets well and gets his own income he still needs to learn this.

Is it okay to still be trying to advise him? Is he too old for that? Is it a waste of time. Yes I know he would learn more quickly if I cut him off. I understand that.

Please tell me if I am being codependent or wrong or what. I no longer trust myself on the right thing to do. I need feedback. Thank you.

I found that attempting to offer my son any advice about how to mange his finances met with anger and rantings and hate. I think he was so ashamed at his core of not being able to behave appropriately with money that he turned that self-hatred out onto me for trying to help. I gave up telling him what to do with any money we sent him. We just decided to write off anything we gave him and give it without conditions or not at all.

You're not playing the same game. You are probably totally correct in what you are trying to share with him but because of his BPD he won't see it like that.

Just say it once. "I'm sorry you are facing that financial issue, that must be hard for you." And that's it and keep repeating it and hang up if he starts ranting at you. The boundary is there for you not for him. Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2015, 10:35:23 AM »

I just needed to vent. Two days in a row my son called to say the police were detaining him for disturbing the peace. Every time he goes into a store he gets into an argument with the cashier. He feels they are mistreating him.

Years ago a therapist told me this is his narcissistic wound. When he does not get the attention he feels entitled to he perceives this as rejection. I also read about this in the book Emotional Intelligence by Goleman. He calls this situation "emotional hijacking."

Only the author doesn't tell you how to treat this and I can't get my son to not call me right in the middle of this. He has been to jail seven times. When I was a teenager, circa 1968 I was arrested and it was so frightening that I project all that on to K when he goes to jail. So it is harder on me than it is on him.

He was not arrested these two times, but I went straight into depression mode and couldn't get out of bed. I read once that hate is just as much a bond as love and I am not even sure which one I feel. I just know there is this invisible umbilical cord that I can't seem to cut. It is the powerlessness that gets me down.

All this was last week, so now I am out of bed and trying to be optimistic. I know he is making some progress or he would have been arrested. I am going to make that my silver lining. Thanks for letting me share. I know I am not alone.  
Logged
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7757


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2015, 10:47:35 AM »

Sorry that this is happening again Butterfly 

That these situations trigger you and can cause debilitating reactions is understandable and something you have the power to manage.

Have you seen this workshop?

Triggering, Mindfulness and Wisemind

We are happy to work the skills with you and answer questions based on our own struggles and successes.



lbj
Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
Butterflygirl
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 366



« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2015, 11:25:03 AM »

Do I just read, and apply, the thread, or is there more to the workshop? Interaction, etc. Thanks.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!