Indirect contact

[Beach_Babe]

So in the past month I've received numerous "silent" calls, text messages from weird numbers and Skype friend requests. I know these were not random or coincidental now because one day after I got the last Skype request and called my ex/his psychopath friend out by name the very next day I got a nasty surprise; psycho ex-mutual  friend sent me a fb message. It contained pictures of a minor car accident that occurred while I was driving rental car on vacation in 2007 (that ex was falsely  telling everyone oI killed and injured people while under the influence of drugs. He also told people the car rental place billed him $6,000 for the accident. Another untruth he had paid for full coverage insurance thru car rental company. Ex told mutual friend 8 years later that  I screwed him out of the $6,000.) Anyway psycho friend sent me picture of the accident scene and said "remember this? " so I blocked him. Then another mutual friend had sent me a fb message to wish me a happy birthday and a friend request... .I accepted because I had nothing against the guy. About a week later friend #2 calls me and we have a 3 hour conversation (triggered by a misunderstanding). Friend #2 tells me his contact had nothing to do with ex, he'd still like to keep in touch  and if I'm ever in NYC let's do lunch. It was a pleasant conversation. The next day I was unfriended... .suddenly all of the weird and random contact has stopped. Am  I crazy to think my ex was somehow involved?

He wanted NC and I've kept that for 2 months. Why would he still hate or want to hurt me? I don't understand.

[fromheeltoheal]

You do understand Beach, at least it's simpler through the BPD lens: a borderline's hate can be projection, inner hatred directed outwardly and 'assigned' to someone else to feel better, along with black and white thinking, you're either all bad or all good, gotta be all bad at this point, and he has to make you all bad because accepting some responsibility himself would trigger shame.  Plus, any kind of reaction he gets from you indicates an attachment is still in place, which may be important to him under different emotional circumstances.  

We all use projection, black and white thinking, shame avoidance, and emotional 'testing' to one degree or another BTW, it's just more intense with a borderline, and unstable and unpredictable.  And when we're emotionally involved it hurts more.  Time to eliminate all these painful Facebook channels?

[Mutt]

Hey BeachBabe,

I had removed all but one mutual friend on Facebook. I had not removed her and I thought that I could trust her. She didn't ask for my side of the story and is friends with my ex today. I posted something that got back to my ex and removed the mutual friend. Either it was the mutual friend or it was my ex creeping. I had another one of her friends attack me and calling me a monster on Facebook. It was a lot of stress.

I didn't need that drama because I was in a lot of hurt and pain and I felt like an emotional wreck when I was split black and my ex was projecting her shame and guilt. I deactivated my Facebook account so my ex didn't have any personal information about me because I needed space and time to heal. I reactivated Facebook when things calmed down. I cut off all channels so she had nothing on me that she could distort and start conflict and drama.

[Beach_Babe]

Yes I blocked both of his friends. Naive of me to think the contact could be unrelated. I think I know what happened with the second friend. Ex found out we were talking and issued an ultimatium: unfriend her or I unfriend you. How could he have known though if he keeps me blocked? My mind is blown he still thinks im an evil after all  this time. I do not think ex missed me. It appears he is doing well and I was long forgotten... .until he discovered I had contact with friend #2. Then he probably just got angry ... ."how dare you stay away from my friends". Because you know his friends are an extension of him I guess. It's sad and sick.  I hope he gains another 200 pounds

[Beach_Babe]

I was doing well until this all happened. Now I am struggling again. Should I break NC?

[fromheeltoheal]

I was doing well until this all happened. Now I am struggling again. Should I break NC?

It depends what your goal is.  If it's to get the closure you want it probably won't happen and you will feel worse.  If it's to detach and heal from the relationship and get on with your life, no, you should not contact him.

This kind of thing is a great way to check in to see how you're doing with your detachment, great feedback that you can use moving forward.  So how are you doing and how can you use this?

[Beach_Babe]

Well I'm doing awful now. I guess a part of me had hoped a friendship was still possible. I kept NC but secretly hoped that contact meant he missed me as well. I hoped it meant real contact would follow. Pathetic I know. 14 years with this person and he has no good memories. It shatters my soul.  I know he must be doing well because typically the better he is the meaner and more grandiose he becomes; if he were hurting or missed me in any way his actions would be more humane. That's just how he is. Sad.

I know I have to move forward, right now I just feel stuck. Why would he go to the trouble of reminding me he hated me all over again? I wasn't bothering him. Who the f*** makes contact simply to hurt you? Through 3rd parties nonetheless.

[Mutt]

I don't think it's pathetic. I can understand wanting validation that we meant something. I think a disordered ex contacts when they see you as all bad to make you feel worse than they do and try to put you in a one down position.

[blissful_camper]

Well I'm doing awful now. I guess a part of me had hoped a friendship was still possible. I kept NC but secretly hoped that contact meant he missed me as well. I hoped it meant real contact would follow. Pathetic I know. 14 years with this person and he has no good memories. It shatters my soul.  I know he must be doing well because typically the better he is the meaner and more grandiose he becomes; if he were hurting or missed me in any way his actions would be more humane. That's just how he is. Sad.

I know I have to move forward, right now I just feel stuck. Why would he go to the trouble of reminding me he hated me all over again? I wasn't bothering him. Who the f*** makes contact simply to hurt you? Through 3rd parties nonetheless.

I don't know your ex, but is it possible that if he were doing well that there would be silence?  In other words no games, no reaching out through other parties.  It sounds like he is attempting to get your attention (positive or negative) by proxy.  He wants to see if you'll react and testing you indirectly is safer than testing your response through direct contact.  

I'm sorry that you're experiencing this.  

[fromheeltoheal]

I know I have to move forward, right now I just feel stuck. Why would he go to the trouble of reminding me he hated me all over again? I wasn't bothering him. Who the f*** makes contact simply to hurt you? Through 3rd parties nonetheless.

So one way to use this is to slowly shift the focus from him to you; this is a good time to practice that because it's fresh right now so you can get some real work done.  One tool is to visualize something in the future that you're looking forward to that has nothing to do with him; so what would that be?  Find something, or create it.  Tunnels are more hopeful when there's a light at the end.

[Beach_Babe]

I don't think it's pathetic. I can understand wanting validation that we meant something. I think a disordered ex contacts when they see you as all bad to make you feel worse than they do and try to put you in a one down position.

But why would he need to put me in a one down position again? He won. I was smeared, reduced to crumble and humiliated. I stopped contacting him so he could focus on his great new job and "worth it" supply. He got his way I unfriended all mutual friends. You mean there is no one else he can split black now? Why me?

Blissfulcamper: I don't know for sure if he was behind the 3rd party contact. It appears that way though.  I have no idea how things are going for him. In the past when they were good he was cruel and dismissive; when they were bad he was more humble and kind. How scary if he now is mean even when things are bad. Instead of missing me he hates me even more. I'm crushed. I loved him so much. He was my best friend =(  I accepted his choice. All I really hoped for like mutt said was validation I mattered.

what was your experience?


Fromheeltoheel: good idea. I am using the airline credit from 6 cancelled trips (to see him) to visit family and friends I haven't seen in years. That should be nice. How about you. What did you do?

[Mutt]

Hey BeachBabe,

I understand how painful this can be. I'm sorry.

He has unstable inter-personal relationships and the disorder is triggered with intimacy. Splitting is a defense mechanism and when we're split black, you meant something to that person.

[Beach_Babe]

Mutt: what if the reason was simply that I no longer was of use?

[fromheeltoheal]

Fromheeltoheel: good idea. I am using the airline credit from 6 cancelled trips (to see him) to visit family and friends I haven't seen in years. That should be nice. How about you. What did you do?

Travel is good, I traveled a lot after I left her, mostly for the stimulus and distraction, which worked at first, but it wasn't until I settled down and started designing a life I wanted to live that the focus started to shift away from her and towards a future without her that I was excited about.  It took most of a year but I knew where I was going and didn't waver much; I was extra motivated, because the best revenge is a life well lived.

[Mutt]

Mutt: what if the reason was simply that I no longer was of use?

What triggered your ex?

I think that my ex saw flaws and it was difficult for her to mirror. She seeks a perfect r/s and I became frustrated with her behaviors and defended myself and fought back. BPD is a persecution complex and if I sustain being persecutor for a substantial amount of time she emotionally collapses.

[blissful_camper]

But why would he need to put me in a one down position again? He won. I was smeared, reduced to crumble and humiliated. I stopped contacting him so he could focus on his great new job and "worth it" supply. He got his way I unfriended all mutual friends. You mean there is no one else he can split black now? Why me?

Blissfulcamper: I don't know for sure if he was behind the 3rd party contact. It appears that way though.  I have no idea how things are going for him. In the past when they were good he was cruel and dismissive; when they were bad he was more humble and kind. How scary if he now is mean even when things are bad. Instead of missing me he hates me even more. I'm crushed. I loved him so much. He was my best friend =(  I accepted his choice. All I really hoped for like mutt said was validation I mattered.

what was your experience?

My observation was as long as he was idealizing my replacement he was silent.  I wouldn't hear from him when he felt his needs were being met by my replacement.  When they began having problems in their relationship I received texts that were unpleasant.  He was a man unhinged in those messages.  

[Mutt]

When they began having problems in their relationship I received texts that were unpleasant.  He was a man unhinged in those messages.

I'm getting these types of messages now where my ex is "emotionally dysregulated" Things are bad with my ex partner and her boyfriend he's slowly being split black. My ex is emotionally dysregulated and I'm not the source he is. It could very well be BeachBabe why your ex is acting this way.

[Beach_Babe]

But I'm not getting messages from him directly so maybe it is all coincidental? I thought they split you white again once problems happen?

[Mutt]

I thought they split you white again once problems happen?

It doesn't happen all at once, it's gradual.

[Beach_Babe]

Even if it was just for a single conversation, Mutt, I'd take that.

Why won't he ever hurt for me?

[Mutt]

Even if it was just for a single conversation, Mutt, I'd take that.

Why won't he ever hurt for me?

Hey BeachBabe,

I'm sorry you're struggling through all of this. I found I was stuck and was deeply reflecting on the situation after the break-up. Have you had the chance to take a look at our workshop with dealing with ruminations?

TOOLS: Dealing with ruminations

[blissful_camper]

But I'm not getting messages from him directly so maybe it is all coincidental? I thought they split you white again once problems happen?

When my ex shut down he seemed unable to approach me directly.  He employed his friends to test the waters for me.  Perhaps he felt that if I interacted with his friends that it was "safe" for him to approach me.  In a similar vein, he sometimes put me in situations in public where I had to interact with him.  That forced the ownership of the interaction on me.  These gyrations, in my mind, were unnecessary.  (I've been a "bad" boy will she talk to me, will I be rejected, will I be punished?"  In a childlike way it appeared his survival depended on knowing the direction the interaction would take ahead of time.  He was relating to me through the lens and experiences of pain and abuse from his childhood.  

It seemed that the process of splitting me white was connected to the devaluation of my replacement.  Once his idealization of her was over, she was no longer the rescuer.  She was placed in the role of persecutor (parent).  

[JRT]

But why would he need to put me in a one down position again? He won. I was smeared, reduced to crumble and humiliated.

What if he DIDN'T win? What if you won? You had mentioned on previous posts that you were the one that circled back to him in the past? You were the peacemaker. This was his expectation and even though he treated you the way he did, his expectation was that you do exactly like you had done in the past. This time you didn't and maintained NC.

I think that we often times fail to consider what our enforcement of NC signals to them. By maintaining NC, no matter what was said and done in the past, you are making a VERY clear statement to him that you are done. Even in a non-BPD relationship, this shifts the balance of power in your favor. From what you have mentioned about him, I am quite certain that this freaks him out and his indirect contact is a manifestation of that. Going further, if things were going well in his life, he most certainly would not take the time out to think of you enough to motivate friends to contact you or un-freind you on FB; you would be a topic that never even came up.

Through NC, YOU won... .not him. AND I think that its important to note that it doesn't really sound like he is doing well on his end.

[blissful_camper]

Even if it was just for a single conversation, Mutt, I'd take that.

Why won't he ever hurt for me?

I had similar questions as the one you've shared here.  I tried to reframe those questions to foster going inward.  

You are in the driver's seat, Beach.  Don't give your power away to others who mistreat you. 

[dobie]

It's likely if he is BPD more than ndp beech he is feeling shame he knows your awesome but he can't own that hence the splitting and all the other behaviours .

His attempts to reengage if that's what they are and are coming from him are so childish as to be almost laughable

Can you see what a child he is ? Can you really expect a man child like him to "own his stuff" to act like a mature adult when his feelings get too powerful ?

He is not your emotional equal my friend you can't hold him to a normal persons standards and conduct he may look like a man talk like a man but he is in fact a small angry boy in a man's body

And like a child he can be cruel and selfish and self absorbed

[Aussie0zborn]

Unfortunately they don't give you closure in these situations - you need to do that yourself. I did it with the help of a therapist and reading all the resources here as well as reading hundreds of posts. Once you see the same story repeating you can see the futility in hoping for closure.

No contact for me meant deleting all her people from Facebook. Then I deleted two of my own people simply because they know a friend of hers - they don't know that their friend is my ex's friend but it's just a safeguard in case my name comes up in conversation and they refer to my FB profile. I don't want her knowing anything about me lest it triggers her to harm me.

23 months post separation, she got a restraining order against me last month. Apparently I followed her numerous times and have been stalking the house at 3am. Last week I was arrested by the police for breach of the interim restraining order for supposedly following her home from work. I was released without charge. We have a full hearing in September and I've just submitted my statement to the court with my evidence. When I "followed her and we made eye contact" in January, I was overseas. When I "followed her and we made eye contact" in May, I was overseas.When I supposedly followed her home from work last week and we made eye contact I was at a meeting at our biggest university, hence being released without charge.

Unfortunately I had to ask my client to step forward as a witness which he gladly did, but when his boss finds out it could ruin my professional relationship with the university.  Last time this happened, I lost that client. Some people figure that where there's smoke, there's fire and they just don't want to know you. So when you ask, why does he have to put you in a one down position... .I can only guess that they are sick and that you have to accept that and stop asking why do they do this or that - they just do.  I found that a better question to ask is, "how did I get myself into this and what do I need to do to get out?" And then I took the steps to get out of it. She is still in it. Maybe my replacement left her? Maybe this? Maybe that? Who cares! I certainly don't and I wouldn't waste my time thinking about it now.  

Whatever you do, please retain NC - any contact is not going to make you feel better. You DID matter but that was then and this is now. Sorry for the long past but let me leave you something I came across today... .

"You are my past, not my future. I don't allow you to destroy my happy life". Good luck.